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LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-18-2007, 09:08 PM
Ok, i want to get this project started as soon as possible. I have collected a lot of parts and im almost ready to start this damn thing. The motor is rebuilt and mainly stock with ARP head studs, ACL rod bearings, B18 intake manifold. I have a walbro 255lph fuel pump and DSM 450cc injectors for the fuel delivery. I have NGK 2 step colder plugs, MSD blaster 2 coil, and im going to get some new wires also (probably NGK) for the spark delivery. I have a manifold and downpipe made by justin, a T3/T4 turbo, 38mm wastegate, FMIC. I know i need a clutch and pressure plate, im going to get that last though. Im going to use a clutchnet kevlar soild hub disc(yellow performance rating) and a red or yellow pressure plate. I know i need a pyrometer to watch EGT's, a boost gauge, and probably a wideband A/F ratio gauge. My question is what else do I 'NEED' to be able to get this project working and running safely. I can always add things once i get it running and save up more money, i just want to get it running. Im only going to be running like 5-7psi until i get EVERYTHING i need to run it higher.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
03-18-2007, 09:54 PM
when you go turbo the money adds up quick don't it:beat:

MessyHonda
03-18-2007, 11:25 PM
how are you going to control the engine....OBD1 swap or BTM?

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-19-2007, 04:09 AM
Yea, the money does add up pretty quick it sucks. As far as tuning and all i eventually plan on doing an obd-1 conversion but that wont be for a while.

EricW
03-19-2007, 07:16 AM
The main thing is what do you plan on using for fuel management. IF you going to do the OBD swap i would recommend doing it before you put the turbo on since there is less chance something could go wrong when you just running NA. It will also give you a chance to work out the "bugs" of the OBD1 swap.

A egt gauge is not totally necessary but the wideband is a must. Do you have all the charge piping? You may want to work on getting as much as you can test fitted before you install the turbo that way there are no surprises on the install day when something doesn't fit or something is in the way and has to be moved or removed. Doing this will help minimize the down time when you install the manifold and turbo.

You may also want to invest in a slim line fan to replace your stock radiator fans, it will give you more room in the engine bay and will probably move more air if you pic the right fan.

What do you plan on doing about an exhaust after the down pipe? Are you going to fab one or are you going to have a shop make you one? Open down pipes are quite loud and if you have to drive the car every day it will probably get old and annoying real quick. If you want to you may also want to invest in some header wrap for the manifold and down pipe to keep under hood temps down.

Do you already have the oil lines and such to get oil to and from the turbo?

Just try to think of everything you would possibly need/want before you actually do the install that way you don't have to wait on anything when you go to install something and you realize that you don't have the part to install it correctly, then you end up having to make a trip the the store or ordering something that won't be delivered for a few days.

Oh, don't forget gaskets and have to run around town the day before the install trying to find all of them.

bobafett
03-19-2007, 10:34 AM
if you need some gauges I have several I can sell you for a good price. pm me if you are interested.

87preludeA20A3
03-19-2007, 12:59 PM
You def. need to get a wideband a/f gauge. The EGt isn't all that necessary. Header wrap should be a must in our tight engine bays. And as far as your fuel management if you want to do OBD 1 do it first turbo second. If not than you should use a BTM and you need an SAFC(pref #2) to run those 450 injectors trust me it will not run them stock. Also the piping should be routed first before install. As far as the radiator that depends on your turbo mani size and turbo size. You might think about doing a civic radiator swap and slim fan. And for the exhasut piping i did 2 1/2" and straight pipe and it is really quite beleive it or not. I know i repeated most everything Eric said
but i'm speaking from experience. Just letting you know what i know.

AccordEpicenter
03-19-2007, 02:52 PM
The only problem with using a kevlar clutch is that it requires a longer more gentle break in. How much power do you want to make, how fast do you want to go? It should hold fine unless your going for like 450hp

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-19-2007, 04:43 PM
Eric-As far as OBD1 goes i wont have the money for it for a while. I have all of the charge piping and i figure the down time will be about 3-4 days because theres a few things i want to do. Ill look into the slim fan, which one should i get? I have the koyo radiator. As far as the downpipe im going to fab up an exhaust system. I have all of the oil lines and all that. And i have all of the gaskets already, i bought all new ones.
87prelude- Im looking into BTM and safc right now, im trying to find a good deal. I know your speaking from experience, i seen your turbo setup its pretty nice. Wheres the cheapest place to get those ebay?
Accordepicenter- Im not worried about how long the break in is, i have a few months to break it in before im ready to take it to the track to get some times. I talked to a few people and they said the kevlar is a good choice for the power im trying to get and that a 6-puck would probably be too much for daily driving. My goal before doing obd1 swap is 200hp and once i get the conversion done i hope to get over 250hp.
So what i still need is:
1. SAFC
2. BTM
3. Wideband A/F gauge
Anything else?

AccordEpicenter
03-19-2007, 04:56 PM
that should hold just fine. Setup sounds pretty good

EricW
03-19-2007, 05:25 PM
Its hard for me to tell you which fan to get since it all depends on how much clearance you will have once you install your turbo. I ended up getting this 12.5" perma-cool unit (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRM%2D19008&FROM=MG)because it moved the most cfm out of all of the fans that would fit. I think i only had about 12.75" of space for a fan and about 4.5" for the thickness of the fan. I didn't order the fan until after I had installed the turbo. The stock fan would have fit but didn't allow me to install the intake pipe on the turbo so I ordered the slim line.

You may want to make a boost leak checker to check your charge pipes before you install them. It will save you the trouble down the road of haveing to take them out if there is a leak in one of the welds. I spent a few hours today checking for boost leaks and welding several holes up in the welds of the charge pipes. You can get everything you need to make one at lowes/home depot or other hard ware store. http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195139

87preludeA20A3
03-19-2007, 05:56 PM
You can find all that stuff you need on ebay and my favorite craigslist. But i did so much searching around it took me like 6 weeks to finally buy one that was resonably priced. You have to remember that everyone just like you is looking for these things cheap. I think i ended up paying like 120 for Apexi SAFC2(new)(which retails for like 400) and i ended up paying full price for AEM wideband A/F(like 280 new).. And my MSD Btm i got for free with another purchase on ebay which was like 180(used). So right there your looking at anywhere from 500-700 and up for those 3 things. As far as your goal of reaching 200Hp without OBD1 i think that will be hard. I basically have Elijahs whole old setup before he upgraded and he told me he could only get out 175Hp with a good tune. Not to mess with your hopes though sorry.

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-20-2007, 12:31 AM
I need the universal msd btm right? How hard is it to install? Same with the safc, how hard is that to install?

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-20-2007, 11:43 PM
will this a/f ratio gauge work? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NGK-NTK-Wide-Band-Powerdex-AFX-Air-Fuel-Gauge-Wideband_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46100QQitemZ27 0102063835QQrdZ1

BITESIZE
03-21-2007, 12:15 AM
Pictures of your progress?!?!?!?! :)

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-21-2007, 12:44 AM
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4248/engine1cn7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7452/engine2mz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/587/engine3wv9.jpg
(http://imageshack.us)http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5400/engine4mn6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2038/engine8bw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7395/engine11yf1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

BITESIZE
03-21-2007, 12:45 AM
Dayum!!!!! Nice Man!!!!! Pictures Are Worth A Thousand Words!

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-21-2007, 01:17 AM
It sucks that 1/3 of the cost for doing this is spent on gauges and a SAFC and BTM. I thought i was done the expensive part when i rebuilt the motor and and got the turbo kit and manifold, and i go to find the electronics and im going to spend just as much on electronics as the turbo kit. Ill make a small price list of what i bought so far that i can remember.
1. Turbo kit $820
2. Manifold and downpipe $500
3. ARP head studs from mazda miata 2.0L $108
4. Rebuilt head and B18 intake manifold $230
5. Engine rebuild parts (all new gaskets, ACL rod bearings, new main bearings, new piston rings, OEM pistons) around $200
6. DSM 450cc injectors, clips and resistor box $100
7. Walbro 255lph fuel pump $100
8. NGK plugs $10
9. MSD blaster 2 coil $40
Total for now - $2108
I will still end up spending another $500-$700 on electronics and $300 on clutch and pressure plate, but its not bad for around $3000.
I will be starting the suspension next and i pretty much have everything except for front shocks, all around drilled/slotted rotors and new rear disc pads which ill be getting once the turbo project is done. I have rear sei disc setup, lowering springs (1"-4"), Justins full bar set, KYB rear shocks, and im getting rebuilt front calipers with kevlar pads from guaynabo.

EricW
03-21-2007, 06:30 AM
will this a/f ratio gauge work? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NGK-NTK-Wide-Band-Powerdex-AFX-Air-Fuel-Gauge-Wideband_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46100QQitemZ27 0102063835QQrdZ1

The main thing you want to look for in a wideband is programable outputs. Here is some info on widebands that should help you make a choice. http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/Library/WideBandO2

If you haven't read through most of this already you should try to. Its very good info. http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/Library/WebHome

87preludeA20A3
03-21-2007, 02:07 PM
Yeah, the SAFC2 was easy install like 1 hour. I just used the 88 CRX wiring because they didn't have ours in the book they had. But it worked out easy enough. As for the wideband it is also easy to hook up. But you should look into something better than that one on ebay. Nice setup so far though good work.

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-22-2007, 12:14 AM
which one is the best for the price AEM GAUGE TYPE 6-IN-1 WIDEBAND UEGO CONTROLLER 30-4100 I foind them for like $260 new?? And as far as a BTM goes i need the universal one right?

AccordEpicenter
03-22-2007, 01:44 PM
yes, part number 5462

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-22-2007, 04:52 PM
I am ordering mu clutch and pressur plate on monday from clutchnet, there goes $350 lol. And after that will be the BTM, i need the universal BTM right?

MessyHonda
03-22-2007, 05:55 PM
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58318


he was selling a clutch idk if he still has it tho

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-22-2007, 11:54 PM
Thats a 6 puck sprung hub, im going with a kevlar solid hub.

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-23-2007, 12:35 AM
Well the clutch and pressure plate comes out to be $385 with shipping. Once that arrives i will bolt the engine and tranny together and have a completly built powerplant. Once its all built i will order the BTM (unless i find one for a great price sooner) and ill be ready to plan what weekend im going to do it on. Since the motors rebuilt i have to do a break in period so im going to run as low of boost as i can until the engine and clutch are broken in. Since im a little tight on money i figure i dont NEED the safc right away because with running that low of boost i shouldnt need to have the 450cc DSM injectors on i can just use the stock ones. The break in period will give me enough time to get the money up for the safc and wideband gauge, and once i install them and tune it i can run a higher boost. That should work right? And no one answered me yet about the BTM, i need the universal one right?

bobafett
03-23-2007, 07:19 AM
I don't know which BTM you need.

But I would suggest breaking your car in NA. Consider that running with NO MANAGEMENT AT ALL, is one of the worst ideas ever, even at low boost. Feel free to install all of your goodies to verify fitment, but I would just change back to the NA setup until you have provisions to tune the car. It doesn't take a lot to blow a poorly tuned motor, imagine how fast a NON-TUNED motor will go.

Just my .02, I would be really nervous doing what you are suggesting. The time it takes to swap out NA header with turbo manifold/downpipe/ shouldn't be that bad. Maybe a couple hours tops if you still have to do oil lines etc.

87preludeA20A3
03-23-2007, 08:04 PM
I agree with Bobafett. The way i see it i didn't want to run boost untill the rings broke in. I think even new cars like the WRX Sti rings are probably pre set or something... Thats what i thought anyway. So just break it in N/A.

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-23-2007, 08:14 PM
Alright, i guess ill break it in n/a yous know alot more about it then i do, lol. I just ordered my clutch and pressure plate from clutchnet like 3mins ago. The break in time will give me enough time to get the btm and safc. 87prelude what btm did you use? Did you use the universal btm (part# 5462) or the 6 btm(part#6462)?

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-24-2007, 02:48 AM
Will it will be ok to break in the motor with the upgraded clutch and pressure plate?

AccordEpicenter
03-24-2007, 07:43 AM
sure why not. Using no managemant is the worst idea ever. Even on a built motor, you will blow it

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-27-2007, 01:36 PM
Whats the major differences between the safc1 and safc2?

87preludeA20A3
03-28-2007, 09:49 PM
That would be the features.. and the SAFC 2 has more " tunability"...

MessyHonda
03-28-2007, 10:35 PM
i saw one of thoes SAFC2 for 245

guaynabo89
03-29-2007, 07:10 AM
i sold mine for like 200 or 225

bobafett
03-29-2007, 01:41 PM
SAFC2 has more rpm points to choose from, so you get a finer amount of control over your fuel corrections.

I am not positive on the details beyond that, but I just know it does 'effectively' the same thing, but you have more resolution. I'm sure SAFC1 has hi and low throttle, but the 2nd version has a self learning tps function which I have found to be VERY useful. especially with a weirdo aftermarket tb.

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-29-2007, 03:26 PM
I guess ill go with the safc2. Next paycheck will be the btm and then the safc2. My clutch should be here next week then i can swap in the motor to do the break in.

LiTtLe xOx BitT
03-31-2007, 12:41 AM
Has anyone herd of the vortech BTM? How good is it. Heres what it is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BOOST-TIMING-MASTER-BTM-VORTECH-BY-MSD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33691QQitemZ1300940 60484QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

guaynabo89
03-31-2007, 08:36 AM
vortech btm = msd btm

its basicly a msd box with the vortech name that gets used in their kits

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-01-2007, 07:37 PM
Well i won the auction for it, it came out to be $178 shipped. I should have it in 2 weeks.

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-05-2007, 01:16 AM
Ok well the motor is pretty much built and im just waiting on my clutch and pressure plate to finish up. Im shooing for two weeks from now for the install date. When i do the swap im going to mount the intercooler and probably relocate the battery to the trunk. Once the motor is broken in i will hook up the BTM, SAFC and put on all the turbo stuff. Im hoping for a 2 day down time for each project. Is there any other tips or suggestions that you guys have?? or any questions?

ZackieDarko
04-05-2007, 10:08 AM
Ok well the motor is pretty much built and im just waiting on my clutch and pressure plate to finish up. Im shooing for two weeks from now for the install date. When i do the swap im going to mount the intercooler and probably relocate the battery to the trunk. Once the motor is broken in i will hook up the BTM, SAFC and put on all the turbo stuff. Im hoping for a 2 day down time for each project. Is there any other tips or suggestions that you guys have?? or any questions?



wear gloves

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-05-2007, 04:22 PM
wear gloves
Thanks for the advice ill keep that in mind, lol. And i just got a email from clutchnet, my stuff will be here tomorrow.

bobafett
04-06-2007, 07:37 AM
do you have a wiring diagram for your ecu, and know ahead of time which wires you need to tap for SAFC2 install? it took us 15 minutes to install the unit, and 3 hours to argue about which wires go to which wires. :)

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-06-2007, 06:52 PM
Ill have to find one, is there one in the repair manual?

EricW
04-06-2007, 08:43 PM
The diagram is in the fuel and emissions section of the manual.

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-07-2007, 05:52 PM
sounds good.

89T
04-07-2007, 10:20 PM
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57295&highlight=safc

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-11-2007, 08:07 AM
Update on parts list:
1. Turbo kit $820
2. Manifold and downpipe $500
3. ARP head studs from mazda miata 2.0L $108
4. Rebuilt head and B18 intake manifold $230
5. Engine rebuild parts (all new gaskets, King rod bearings, new main bearings, new piston rings, OEM pistons) around $200
6. DSM 450cc injectors, clips and resistor box $100
7. Walbro 255lph fuel pump $100
8. NGK plugs $10
9. MSD blaster 2 coil $40
10. Vortech BTM $179
11. SAFC $100
12. Clutchnet red 2x pressure plate and kevlar solid hub clutch disc $383
Total for now - $2770

EricW
04-11-2007, 08:14 AM
What is the "turbo kit" if the manifold and downpipe are separate?

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-11-2007, 09:17 AM
The turbo kit is the turbo, intercooler, BOV, waste gate, charge piping, oil lines, ect. The manifold and downpipe are made by justin.

MessyHonda
04-11-2007, 10:06 AM
Update on parts list:
1. Turbo kit $820
2. Manifold and downpipe $500
3. ARP head studs from mazda miata 2.0L $108
4. Rebuilt head and B18 intake manifold $230
5. Engine rebuild parts (all new gaskets, King rod bearings, new main bearings, new piston rings, OEM pistons) around $200
6. DSM 450cc injectors, clips and resistor box $100
7. Walbro 255lph fuel pump $100
8. NGK plugs $10
9. MSD blaster 2 coil $40
10. Vortech BTM $179
11. SAFC $100
12. Clutchnet red 2x pressure plate and kevlar solid hub clutch disc $383
Total for now - $2770



where did you order the ARP head studs? got a part number?

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-11-2007, 11:47 AM
where did you order the ARP head studs? got a part number?
The ARP head studs are for a 2.0L miata part# 218-4703 i beleive.

AccordEpicenter
04-12-2007, 04:54 AM
sounds correct, thats what i used on my accord

bobafett
04-12-2007, 08:21 AM
same here

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-16-2007, 04:02 PM
UPDATE. My SAFC should be here by the end of the week. I now need to get new main bearing cap bolts to finish this motor, its so fustrating. I went to hondapartsunlimited.com and they are asking like $58 shipped for the set of 10, is that a good price? is there anywhere else i can get them cheaper or faster? Heres what im talking about, its part #20 http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/schonda/jsp/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Accord&catcgry2=1988&catcgry3=4DR+LXI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=CYLINDER+BLOCK-OIL+PAN&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&systemcomp=List%20All . With all this bad weather in PA its been really hard to work on the car, im hoping to get to do something this saturday. Im going to try and atleast get the battery re-located to the trunk, remove the P/S and mount the intercooler this weekend.

LiTtLe xOx BitT
04-27-2007, 12:07 AM
Well the safc has arrived and it looks like its in really good shape. I also ordered the main bearing cap bolts that should be here soon. And again i ran into a few problems so i need to push back the install date, this is a pain in the ass.