Project B18a swap

[Vector]

well, people who seen my rant thread in ot know that my a20 is finished, but there it is in short for the people that didn't know...

i picked up a 1992 b18a(160xxxk's) complete:

engine, odb1 dizzy(broke the cap:thumbdn: moving engine) and wires.
odb1 ecu, and wiring from headlights to dash, 4 wire o2 sensor
alternator, and power steering pump.
ys1 transmission with mounts intact.
shifter linkages, clutch cable.
pedal box with throttle cable.
intake and exhaust manifold with down pipe.
2 extra cams, probably use these for regrind.
94 rear engine mount(they are shorter by little over 1" than the 92-93 ones).

all that for 800 bucks locally.

since he is a professional welder with pretty much any material he is doing up my 954 itbs for this motor. and its only costing me roughly 100 bucks for that.

my only q that i have is the power steering pump, i tried an extra ps hose on the pump, it bolts on but the bend is in the wrong direction, probably solve this once the engine is in. probably just get the one he had sitting there for this motor and use that.

i've already pulled my a20 and in the process doing it, the tranny snagged one of the metal brake lines on the prop valve and bent the hell out it. oh well, it goes to the master cylinder which i was going to change anyway because it makes a tight ass farting noise under heavy braking ever since my rear disk swap. maybe coincidence.

thats pretty much it, i'm gonna make the car fit the mounts that are on the engine, and try to reuse the bolt patterns on the front and back x-members.
also going to use the 92 axles and half shaft. going to fit the engine and cv axels first, make sure i have my 3/4-1" play on both sides, then go from there on making the mounts.

just gonna pop the dust shields off the spindles because the passenger side one is mashed from an incorrect cv axle being jammed in there repeatedly it looks like. it was like that when i got it...

since this is a first for me. this is also the first time i've ever seen a b series out of a car this close, and it looks amazingly clean, so it should be a fun project . i am relatively open minded and going to work through any problems that arise.

anyone off hand know the wheelbase on the accord vs 92 teg? i can probably find it somewhere on the net.

so there you have it, i will get pic's tomorrow of the engine in all of its glory, out and in the car for fitting.

[MessyHonda]

hate to say it but are you parting out your a20?

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

Sweet

[Vector]

hate to say it but are you parting out your a20?

well... was thinking about it, but i'm just gonna chuck the block and keep the rest of the parts for my se-i... it will be seeing some autocross tomorow and a few events after that till my b18 hatch is finished.

the se-i is automatic :Owned: , so its going to need all the help it can get... after the b18, it will be swapped to 5 spd, and it will be my family / reserve autox car.


Sweet

thanks man... this is going to be a blast.

[EricW]

Sounds like a good plan, can't wait to see it finished.

[Vector]

got a bunch of pics of the engine on the hoist and then in the car with the cv axles connected.... haven't had alot of time on the computer, but i should be able to get them up tomorrow.

the axles have about 1" or little more of inward play through the spindles using the teg axles(dont really know how much should be there??), but i think it should be good. going to start fabbing mounts this week. once thats done, comes the hacking of the wiring to make it isolated between the engine and the ecu only.

in the mean time i cleaned up my se-i for autox, got some before and after pics... there was a alot of time in between the taking of the pics since i got the car about 6 months ago, so the before ones are that old.

se-i before and after (http://www.kelownaimports.com/?page_id=118) someone should nominate it for aom eh?? jk.

you can see the hatch in one of the after pics with the engine hoist in front of it... will update tomorrow.

[Vector]

pics as promised of the hatch and engine in place..

Project B18 (http://www.kelownaimports.com/?page_id=131)

[Vector]

sooo, i was looking at my car some more today, and it looks like i can fab up brackets for the engine and reuse my a20 mounts and mounting locations since they are close to the a20 mount locations on the front and rear cross members. anyone know how much abuse the factory a20 mounts can take? check out the pics, and you will have an idea of what I'm talking about.

i know there have been some decent a20 builds and by that i assume that they can take a lot of punishment before breaking. for the first year of the car i will be running the b18 as is till i get used to the setup, then pop on a b16 vtec head down the road... what ya guys think?

i had a choice between the rear mount bracket off of a 92 or 94 for the transmission... i took the 94 one since i have seen the 92 ones are longer and need to be shortened in order for it to fit.

i start welding tomorrow.

[snoopyloopy]

sweet. keep the pix coming. nice to see someone else going b-series in these little econoboxes. :lol:

[Vector]

any thoughts on the stock a20 mounts and there strength?

if these things can handle boosted a20, then my swap will be easier than i thought.

[MessyHonda]

any thoughts on the stock a20 mounts and there strength?
if these things can handle boosted a20, then my swap will be easier than i thought.


well a20 mounts are somewhat ment to handle the b20 also....so you should be safe till like 160hp. if you have problems just make your own mounts with poly so they will be nice and tight

[Vector]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... err ..

ok well, then i'm off to reuse those.. HEh... no PRI kit for me (thank god)...

good thing i can weld and bend shit. will try to post more pics tomorrow, hopefully have motor in car held up by car and not jack stands.

[Vector]

update:

so, i set out to by some 3mm steel today, popped into princess auto but they didn't have anything in the sizes i was looking for, but... i found something else and its pretty cool because i'm able to use them with the stock integra mounts even tho they are huge, and i can use them with minimal welding...

can you guess what it is...?

steel casters.... bought 2 and took the iron wheels off, shaved alittle off the mount bushings, sure enough, both mounts fit perfect inside the brackets..... i will have to drill new holes in the brackets for the mount bolts. the brackets are rated for something like 1200lb each, i don't think the engine weighs even close to that, so i highly doubt they are going to need to be re-enforced. Saves me a shit load of welding other than the bracket to the car. i think i have it figured out.

if you think i'm overlooking something, please ask, cuz i've been thinking of this all day and it is possible that i have a one track mind now lol.

i should be able to have the engine mounted on passenger/drivers side tomorrow and then i can continue on the front and rear mounts... if every thing goes well, the car should be running on Saturday... latest Sunday once all the wiring is figured out.

thats my discovery, i will get some pics tomorrow of the mounts and brackets before i weld them into the car.

edit: before i forget, how did ya guys deal with the ps hose? use the one from the integra?. mine bends the wrong way when i hook it up the the teg ps pump.

[EricW]

For the power steering hose if you don't want to loose power steering and you want a hose that will fit good. You could find a shop that makes hydraulic hoses and have a custom one made using the ends of your stock hose or one from the integra pump and the end from the power steering rack.

[Vector]

For the power steering hose if you don't want to loose power steering and you want a hose that will fit good. You could find a shop that makes hydraulic hoses and have a custom one made using the ends of your stock hose or one from the integra pump and the end from the power steering rack.

cool i will just switch the ends, i have access to hp clamps and shit... thanks for the quick reply

[TexasMan]

Nice ls accord thats strange how that doesnt sound right at all! lol

[LX-incredible]

steel casters.... bought 2 and took the iron wheels off, shaved alittle off the mount bushings, sure enough, both mounts fit perfect inside the brackets..... i will have to drill new holes in the brackets for the mount bolts. the brackets are rated for something like 1200lb each, i don't think the engine weighs even close to that, so i highly doubt they are going to need to be re-enforced. Saves me a shit load of welding other than the bracket to the car. i think i have it figured out.

if you think i'm overlooking something, please ask, cuz i've been thinking of this all day and it is possible that i have a one track mind now lol.

i should be able to have the engine mounted on passenger/drivers side tomorrow and then i can continue on the front and rear mounts... if every thing goes well, the car should be running on Saturday... latest Sunday once all the wiring is figured out.

thats my discovery, i will get some pics tomorrow of the mounts and brackets before i weld them into the car.

Awesome man, looking forward to see what you did for the mounts.

[Vector]

alittle update....

well.. yall haven't heard from me in a while... so here goes

basically allot of shit just happened.. mainly life... family members passing, problems at home, my appendix trying to kill me, blah blah...

so i haven't had much time to work on the poor 3g, as it sits.. the engine is in the car with 2 mounts still.......... not wired, no shifter, no exhaust.

i have someone helping me out now with it.. so it will be back on track soon....

this projects not dead yet

[MessyHonda]

alittle update....
well.. yall haven't heard from me in a while... so here goes
basically allot of shit just happened.. mainly life... family members passing, problems at home, my appendix trying to kill me, blah blah...
so i haven't had much time to work on the poor 3g, as it sits.. the engine is in the car with 2 mounts still.......... not wired, no shifter, no exhaust.
i have someone helping me out now with it.. so it will be back on track soon....
this projects not dead yet



thanks for the update

[thegreatdane]

take some pics while youre at it. at least you're back on top of things again. good luck with the swap!

[Vector]

engines sittin to far forward, as a result its leaning back to much.. so mounts have to be cut and redone.... also has to be brought up an inch or 2 to allow custom front and back mounts, which are actually my biggest concern due to the fact this car will be raced when its finished. also gives me ability to re-aling cv's with suspension.

[3geeandEF]

I have a question about swapping a bseries in my 3rd gen sedan LX. Since your swapping in the b18a would it be as logical to swap in a 18c5 in? I'm building a 1991 Civic hatchback race car at the moment but when its done i plan on swapping the accord ASAP, just wondering if it would be the same process to swap in a hydraulic transmission.

[MessyHonda]

I have a question about swapping a bseries in my 3rd gen sedan LX. Since your swapping in the b18a would it be as logical to swap in a 18c5 in? I'm building a 1991 Civic hatchback race car at the moment but when its done i plan on swapping the accord ASAP, just wondering if it would be the same process to swap in a hydraulic transmission.



you would need a conversion kit....racetek82 runs a b16 with hydraulic trans and he converted it to cable.

[gfrg88]

I have a question about swapping a bseries in my 3rd gen sedan LX. Since your swapping in the b18a would it be as logical to swap in a 18c5 in? I'm building a 1991 Civic hatchback race car at the moment but when its done i plan on swapping the accord ASAP, just wondering if it would be the same process to swap in a hydraulic transmission.

How to swap in a B-series engine (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49200)

[Vector]

completed custom wiring harness today, took about 4 hours, should be able to fire the car tomorrow to see how the engine runs.... popped the hood today.. still cant believe how clean the engine looks... almost to clean for 160,000k

if i get it running, i will get some vid..

[A18A]

w00t!1!!

[MessyHonda]

nice...post some pics also.

[LX-incredible]

What did you wind up using for the mounts?

[Vector]

well did some work on the car, got some of the wiring in place, cooling system is pretty much ready, just gota get the exhaust bolted and the shifter linkage connected.

i welded heavy duty caster brackets to the car and used the teg mounts for tranny and drivers, the back mount i will be using the teg mount bolted to a plate thats welded to the rear x frame. front i'm probably going to do as a solid mount as i would like little to no wheel hop.

the car hasn't been sitting for long, but obviously long enough for it to become infested with wasps :thumbdn:. so i got chased away a few times lol.... don't really feeling like getting stung. bought some wasp ownage.

[Vector]

bolted the exhaust up and ran into a massive roadblock ..... it does not fit the way i have it....

down pipe hits the front cross member ha, and i cant push the engine back far enough to gain clearance as the tranny hits the rear cross member...

i still have some tricks up my sleeve... my next suggestions gonna be crazy if in fact i think i can make it fit..

so back to the drawing board..

i'll be back.:Owned:

[88LXi68]

notch the front crossmember.

[EricW]

Make a custom front crossmember. :naughty: :nuts:

[thegreatdane]

just drive without a front crossmember :P Or get another header.

[Vector]

lol without one... just gotta beef up the sway bar links thats all....

i decided to notch both front and back x-members.. ran into a problem with the b18 wiring and my injectors, gotta change the plugs and add my injector box...

was gonna get more pics... but my cameras mia.... :thumbdn: i will get that sorted soon to.... pretty sure i left it in Calgary when my work sent me down there.

[Vector]

it's done, i raced it today.... i found somthing out that might make it much easier to mount the engine... less fabrication.. and its strong... very strong.

i'd done repeated clutch dumps to make sure they wont break... i will be gettin some video and some pics tomorow of the car in action and how the engine was setup.

all in all i'm pretty impressed with this b18a1 goes like snot compared to the a20 i used to have in it.

so i'm using the tegs driverside and passenger mount.
using the tegs transmission bracket notched.
custom front mount made from an old lca.
using tegs axels with halfshaft.
custom obd1 wiring harness

i'm gonna swap the rads cuz the fittings on the motor are bigger... plus gives me a chance to get something nicer.

using accords shifter linkage not cut... made a fitting with bushings that bolt through the tegs transmission shift pin so i didnt have to weld that..

yea... one hell of an adventure in all

oh.. found powerslot rear rotors and hawk pads from a 90's teg.... so those are on my car... ebrakes nice and sticky now lol...

thats about it for now...

[BITESIZE]

Sounds like an awesome work experience for you! Pictures please!

[LX-incredible]

so i'm using the tegs driverside and passenger mount.
using the tegs transmission bracket notched.
custom front mount made from an old lca.
using tegs axels with halfshaft.
custom obd1 wiring harness

i'm gonna swap the rads cuz the fittings on the motor are bigger... plus gives me a chance to get something nicer.

using accords shifter linkage not cut... made a fitting with bushings that bolt through the tegs transmission shift pin so i didnt have to weld that..

yea... one hell of an adventure in all

oh.. found powerslot rear rotors and hawk pads from a 90's teg.... so those are on my car... ebrakes nice and sticky now lol...

thats about it for now...
Awesome, let's see it. :D

[getalife]

nice work dude!!! ur car rocks!!!!!

[ZackieDarko]

wait what? DA teg rear discs work on our cars?

[MessyHonda]

nice stuff man...you proved that we dont just have to sit on our ass if we want a b-series mounts for our cars...just some time and build the mounts. hope you are having fun with the swap.

[Vector]

wait what? DA teg rear discs work on our cars?

i dont know about the calipers... i just grabbed the rotors and pads... cuz they were powerslot and hawk... i called a parts shop before doing it.. and they siad the numbers cross over.. so i yanked them.

as for pics i'm trying.. i'm lazy.. that was like... alota work in such a short time lmao....

i got autox again on thurs... i'm just in the mids of puttin the dash back together...

i'm now lookin at one of those quiaf differentials and some cams..

[Legend_master]

Wait, did I miss the pics or something? I didnt even realize you finished it.

[stat1K]

yeah i want to see it as well.

[MessyHonda]

i dont know about the calipers... i just grabbed the rotors and pads... cuz they were powerslot and hawk... i called a parts shop before doing it.. and they siad the numbers cross over.. so i yanked them.

as for pics i'm trying.. i'm lazy.. that was like... alota work in such a short time lmao....

i got autox again on thurs... i'm just in the mids of puttin the dash back together...

i'm now lookin at one of those quiaf differentials and some cams..



stop being lazy and snap some pics. come on....i need a new wallpaper...haha

[Vector]

engine pics and some other useful info to look at here (http://www.kelownaimports.com/?page_id=257)

let me know what ya guys think..

[Legend_master]

engine pics and some other useful info to look at here (http://www.kelownaimports.com/?page_id=257)

let me know what ya guys think..

so you didnt modify the drivers side mount? Also what did you do for the missing tranny mount?

[Vector]

drivers side mount i removed and replaced it with a caster bracket, and just added another for the passenger side mount. the mount width i think is the same for drivers/passenger for the stock teg mounts.

[88Accord-DX]

NICE. Is this it?


http://www.kelownaimports.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/dx_hatch_dyno-009_50.jpg

[LX-incredible]

Do you have some better pictures of the mounts?

[A18A]

does it only have 94hp? or is it 194?

[ESDEEZ]

94? 194!?

[A18A]

i dunno, i probably need glasses (or clean the screen) but that's what it says here:
http://www.kelownaimports.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/000_0175_50.jpg
maybe i just dont know how to read it :)

[Vector]

yea well... correct me if i'm wrong... but don't they call the mustang dyno the heart breaker.... well yea i wasn't that impressed with the scores myself... but after seeing what some of the other 4 cyls pulled on it i didn't feel so bad...

that was a 4th gear pull to btw..

[ghettogeddy]

so how much for a set of custom mounts lol
im kinda serios about it i have an extra accord laying around lol

[ZackieDarko]

yeah really how much to duplicate these things

[Legend_master]

yea well... correct me if i'm wrong... but don't they call the mustang dyno the heart breaker.... well yea i wasn't that impressed with the scores myself... but after seeing what some of the other 4 cyls pulled on it i didn't feel so bad...

that was a 4th gear pull to btw..

SOmething is wrong with that engine, you need to check it out. YOu should be ranging around 115-120 hp with that engine.

[Oldblueaccord]

You'll have to explain what holds your front struts in the car sometime as well.

wp

[Vector]

side mounts:

i used caster brackets from princess auto... heavy duty ones.... these will not break rated at holding up to 5,000lb each also had to be big enough for the teg mount to fit in.

rear mount:

used a20 dog bone, so the back mount ties the engine to the firewall, not the cross member, all i did for that was cut and bent it at .... 20 degree so it would clear the lines and firewall and reach the tegs tranny mount bracket.

front mount:

this took the most work, i cut the end of a bent lca which still had a good bushing in it and welded it to a 3/4" thick x 6" long steel. went back to princess auto and bought some 3mm x 2" x 4ft long steel and made the front bracket that bolts to the front x member.

my suspension:

what are those???!!?!?1?!( i've gotten that alot when i race)

those are my hats... i offset the shocks to compensate for lowering the car... front and back.. i did this so i can run oem shocks and not destroy them every 2-3 months. in turn it also helps with limiting body roll and the ride comfort.... well with coil overs its pretty stiff... but the shocks take to it pretty good... the car does not excessively bounce and is fairly impressive in the corners.

ps. i am using the axels and intermediate shaft that came with the engine.

more to come in abit... got some work to do..

[MessyHonda]

well its a mustang dyno. but yeah....next time do 3rd gear pulls. that is what i dynoed my car with...and i pulled 109whp...so like 125 to the crank.

[A18A]

side mounts:

i used caster brackets from princess auto... heavy duty ones.... these will not break rated at holding up to 5,000lb each also had to be big enough for the teg mount to fit in.

rear mount:

used a20 dog bone, so the back mount ties the engine to the firewall, not the cross member, all i did for that was cut and bent it at .... 20 degree so it would clear the lines and firewall and reach the tegs tranny mount bracket.

front mount:

this took the most work, i cut the end of a bent lca which still had a good bushing in it and welded it to a 3/4" thick x 6" long steel. went back to princess auto and bought some 3mm x 2" x 4ft long steel and made the front bracket that bolts to the front x member.

my suspension:

what are those???!!?!?1?!( i've gotten that alot when i race)

those are my hats... i offset the shocks to compensate for lowering the car... front and back.. i did this so i can run oem shocks and not destroy them every 2-3 months. in turn it also helps with limiting body roll and the ride comfort.... well with coil overs its pretty stiff... but the shocks take to it pretty good... the car does not excessively bounce and is fairly impressive in the corners.

ps. i am using the axels and intermediate shaft that came with the engine.

more to come in abit... got some work to do..
thats cool, very clever thinking :thumbup:

and whats the difference between the mustang dyno & any other dyno?

[Vector]

thats cool, very clever thinking :thumbup:

and whats the difference between the mustang dyno & any other dyno?

that part i'm not entirely sure of in terms of how it works... the guy siad somthing about it having a brake... so it can simulate air resistance and stuff... thats all i got from the conversation lol

[Legend_master]

thats cool, very clever thinking :thumbup:

and whats the difference between the mustang dyno & any other dyno?

Basically it underrates the engine HP/TQ compared to other dynos.

[Oldblueaccord]

yea well... correct me if i'm wrong... but don't they call the mustang dyno the heart breaker.... well yea i wasn't that impressed with the scores myself... but after seeing what some of the other 4 cyls pulled on it i didn't feel so bad...

that was a 4th gear pull to btw..


Mustang reads low but your rpm ? 6250 dont those cars goto like 7500?

I like the strut idea thats really cool. I still dont see what holds the top hats in the car but not important at all. Neat set up.

wp

[Vector]

i've consolidated my mods and pics into 1 section right here (http://www.kelownaimports.com/?page_id=94)

there are closer pics of the strut towers and what i did with the suspension.

7200 is rev limit on the b18a1 as far as i know...

[ZackieDarko]

http://www.kelownaimports.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/000_0178.jpg


i love how simple that is

[Legend_master]

Alright dude, that suspension stuff is pretty ingenious. That would work PERFECTLY with the 89 civic struts. There would be no need for modification. You could just bolt them in. Very nice setup on the engine, and great suspension mod. I will have to try that with my next 3gee.

[Vector]

for the suspension mods, i used 4" x 1/2" carriage bolts and alot of nuts... i double nutted everything because if anything came loose while racing... lol that could be relatively dangerous...

i had thought about using civic shocks since they are widely available... i know where i can get some 6 way konis probably cheap... i might just do that.

are they longer than the 3g shocks?

[Legend_master]

for the suspension mods, i used 4" x 1/2" carriage bolts and alot of nuts... i double nutted everything because if anything came loose while racing... lol that could be relatively dangerous...

i had thought about using civic shocks since they are widely available... i know where i can get some 6 way konis probably cheap... i might just do that.

are they longer than the 3g shocks?

Yes they are much longer then the 3gee accord, but they fit in the perch like a glove. With that mod you have there it would eliminate the headache I had to go through.

[Vector]

cool.. guess this opens up possibilities for other shocks then.

[Legend_master]

cool.. guess this opens up possibilities for other shocks then.


Honestly any shock that would work for an 88-89 civic would work for our car with that mod. So any shock you want you can get. Now you need to figure out a way to make the shorter shocks work in the rear :lol: .

[Vector]

how much shorter.... i bet i have an idea for that..

[Legend_master]

how much shorter.... i bet i have an idea for that..

I have never physically measure them, but somewhere in the realm of 1 1/2" to 2"'s shorter. They work good if you want to dump the car, but not very practical for most daily drivers.

[sleeperheaven]

one question what spindles did you use

[Vector]

one question what spindles did you use

the accords... just popped the dust sheilds off.

[guaynabo89]

wow

good work.


Mustang dynos definately kill ur joy. if you would have dynoed on a dynojet it probably been like 105 at the wheels.

somethig definately sems wrong since hey stopped the run at 6200 rpm and by looking at the dyno plot it still had some left in it. I ran the p75 and hit the rev limit with the a20 like nothing. I think its like 7000 or 7200 rpm.


I definately like your top hat idea.


As far as the rear civic struts being to short you can use your top hat idea but backwards and make it sit under the car instead of inside. You look lik eyou have some good problem solving skills so that shouldnt be a prolem for you.

[Vector]

yea it would have to be narrow enough from the spring to go around. tho... still havent finished that project since i'm still working getting the b18 running in the 84 accord.

suspensions going to get reworked because of the h22 anyway.

[knarg]

i have access to a b18a1 in a 1990 integra for about $300-400 dollars
should i buy and make custom mounts + linkage for the swap?

possible? yes or no?

[ZackieDarko]

i have access to a b18a1 in a 1990 integra for about $300-400 dollars
should i buy and make custom mounts + linkage for the swap?

possible? yes or no?


yes and yes and make your own thread dont jack his :-p

[Vector]

if its low k's yes.. i'd convert it to obd1 too....

[MessyHonda]

yeah the 92 and up were obd1....better for tunning.