So Im Rebuilding

[ghettogeddy]

so it all strated with buying a fi swap from pico, now im buying a a20a3 & a 5 speed tranny from racetek i will be rebuilding it and doing a few little upgrades and i need to be pointed in the direction of a good place to buy pistons and rods and anything i can to make this motor fun i already ordered my cam gear and im paying for my cam on the 28th a delta 272. i will also be getting the head p&p and the block board about .20 over maybe .40 if its safe any links suggestions or brand/product names would be nice

[Estimated Prophet]

Great thread - I'll be in the market in a few months. Would be nice to see a recent thread with all rebuild parts/links together.

[MessyHonda]

so it all strated with buying a fi swap from pico, now im buying a a20a3 & a 5 speed tranny from racetek i will be rebuilding it and doing a few little upgrades and i need to be pointed in the direction of a good place to buy pistons and rods and anything i can to make this motor fun i already ordered my cam gear and im paying for my cam on the 28th a delta 272. i will also be getting the head p&p and the block board about .20 over maybe .40 if its safe any links suggestions or brand/product names would be nice


dude we should rebuild together.....i just got my P&P head today.....and it looks sweet.

[ghettogeddy]

nice
twin motors lol
u get another engine stand and ill be glad to let u work on it in my back yard

[MessyHonda]

nice
twin motors lol
u get another engine stand and ill be glad to let u work on it in my back yard



cool...il talk to my last boss...he knows alot of people...ive been researching and so far i like the b-series Rods and some pistons.....but its going to cost like 1k just of the stuff...

[ghettogeddy]

well im buying piece by piece so it doesn't matter and i will be spreading it out over a few months so when u get a chance post links or im me them and ill post them

[Pico]

I've got two stands here that you two can use, I know Deb will be glad to see them out of here for awhile

[MessyHonda]

I've got two stands here that you two can use, I know Deb will be glad to see them out of here for awhile



i was going to ask about your wodden stand...but a real one would be awesome.

[ghettogeddy]

anyone got any help links to good parts to buy for the rebuild

[Pico]

anyone got any help links to good parts to buy for the rebuild
what are you looking for? I can help you out with the gasket set's and rod and main bearings, oil pump, water pump, etc....
Just let me know and I'll check what we have in stock.

[MessyHonda]

what are you looking for? I can help you out with the gasket set's and rod and main bearings, oil pump, water pump, etc....
Just let me know and I'll check what we have in stock.


hey pico you guys carry B-series stuff like rods and pistons?

[Pico]

hey pico you guys carry B-series stuff like rods and pistons?
I dont think we do but I can call my buddies at Japan parts in S.S.F. they deal with alot of the Japanese import engines

[ghettogeddy]

what are you looking for? I can help you out with the gasket set's and rod and main bearings, oil pump, water pump, etc....
Just let me know and I'll check what we have in stock.
any thing performance would be nice

[ghettogeddy]

so i found .50mm over pistons and rings on ebay for like 60 shipped
EBAY LINK (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=330107960904&rd=1,1)

[tuxdreamerx]

I did mine .050 over I guess thats the limits but it runs good.

[tuxdreamerx]

oh and I only paid 20 bucks for my pistons rings and pins. I do have a set of main bearings that I wont be using I ended up getting a crank kit after I had already gotten main bearings.

[ghettogeddy]

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10551_754299_-1_11487
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=21719&cat=0&page=1

this motor is gona be fucking expensive

[cubert]

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10551_754299_-1_11487
http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=21719&cat=0&page=1

this motor is gona be fucking expensive


better expensive and done right then cheaped out and having to fear the car shooting pistons through the hood :lol:

[ghettogeddy]

better expensive and done right then cheaped out and having to fear the car shooting pistons through the hood :lol:
amen

[Vanilla Sky]

I'm looking at $1500 (probably end up around $3000) when I rebuild. That's doing as much work as I can myself. Good parts cost a lot, but good parts are 1000% worth it in the long run.

[ghettogeddy]

but are u going performance all the way

[Vanilla Sky]

I have the DCOEs sitting here, I have a head that I'm going to port and polish myself. I want to boost the compression up to about 10:1. Maybe more, maybe not. Looking at Eagle rods, +.030 bore Arias custom pistons, and an upgraded valvetrain. A nice camshaft regrind should pretty much top it off.

NA carbed is the way I like it. Gonna be a great business car, eh?

[ghettogeddy]

I have the DCOEs sitting here, I have a head that I'm going to port and polish myself. I want to boost the compression up to about 10:1. Maybe more, maybe not. Looking at Eagle rods, +.030 bore Arias custom pistons, and an upgraded valvetrain. A nice camshaft regrind should pretty much top it off.
NA carbed is the way I like it. Gonna be a great business car, eh?
lol ya im doing an fi swap and a delta 272 and adj cam gear, p&p the head 3 angle valve job plus block bored .50mm over with stock .50mm over pistons

[Vanilla Sky]

I'm not dead set on .030 over yet. I may go more since I have spare blocks. I'm not running boost, just pure static compression.

I do think I may have my head extrudehoned. I'll see if I think it's worth it when I get into the build. Probably just end up having RJudgey walking me through a P&P, though.

[MessyHonda]

my tranny going out did not help alot....i got like 500 bucks saved for parts...

[snoopyloopy]

my tranny going out did not help alot....i got like 500 bucks saved for parts...
you can probably grab one from the jy for pretty cheap, especially if you take your blown one back as a core.

[cygnus x-1]

As Rich will probably tell you, most of the improvement in headwork is around the valves. One thing I discovered is that you need to tell the shop you want a "performance" valve grind. In my case they just touched up the seats and basically restored them to factory specs. This is good for long term reliability but much more restrictive for flow, so I took it back and had them do a performance grind. The performance grind has much narrower seats and the cuts above and below the seat are deeper.
Some pictures:
This was the first pass. Look at how wide the intake seats are.
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Engine-build/FinishedExhaustPort3.jpg
This was the second pass. Much narrower seats and you can actually see the lower cut now.
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Engine-build/IntakeSeats.jpg
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[ghettogeddy]

how much did that run u

[cygnus x-1]

Total for the head was $300. That included before and after washes, remachining the surface, cutting the valve seats, and regrinding the valves. They didn't charge me for the regrind on the seats which was cool since I didn't tell them to do a performance grind the first time (oops). If you're interested you can check out the whole rebuild here:

http://www.preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238337

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[ghettogeddy]

hmmm thats not bad so priity much u gave them a complete head had all the work done then it came bacl complete

[cygnus x-1]

hmmm thats not bad so priity much u gave them a complete head had all the work done then it came bacl complete

Not quite. I gave them just the head casting and the valves. I did all the disassembly/reassembly. It's pretty easy if you have a valve spring compressor.

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[jschatte]

it's also nice to have a friend help you take out the springs, casue some of them are pretty subborn

[snoopyloopy]

are you going to use the a18a double springs?

[rjudgey]

Also the machine shop he used were very professional the chamber wall would be razor shape after the head had been skimmed but the machinist took the time and trouble to bevel edge the whole chamber circumference on each one. If this was not done apart from slicing fingures open if touched would also cause pre ignition and detonation problems as the sharp edge would get red hot from firing and would cause the incoming fuel mixture to ignite before it was supposed to. Also they did the seats to a pretty descent spec for a normal machine shop, you can still have a lot of improvements to those seats but would cost more money as machinary needed would be very expensive and the seats would need to be hand finished too which would ramp up costs, but as a cheap performance upgrade he did well to get what he got for the money. The rest of the head he did himself with a bit of advice from myself, be nice to see a pair of DCOE's on there instead of a 38/38 but i suppose you have to start somewhere!! About time you started getting it tuned properly and down the rolling road for some finer tweeking especially when you get your cam pulley!!

[cygnus x-1]

Hey Rich! You think I've been slacking off all this time eh? Not so. Well, mostly not so. Heh! I haven't updated my thread over on PP for awhile I guess. I'll get on that.

The 'lude has been running for awhile now and I have been getting some miles in now that the weather is getting better. The leaks are all fixed now. Most were simple things that I just overlooked. I've done a fair bit of tuning on the Weber and have even kept a record in the sticky Weber thread in the carbs section here. It's running pretty good now except that I've recently discovered a major flaw in the 38/38. Because of the way it's oriented, combined with the shape of the fuel bowl, the fuel sloshes to one side or the other during hard cornering. This creates either more or less pressure in the main circuit and causes the mixture to go rich or lean depending on which way you are turning. Right hand turns are bad enough that sometimes the engine will even stall out from being too rich. I asked a local Weber guru about this and he said there was pretty much nothing to be done as it's a result of the basic design of the carb. This is really disappointing because it's such a fun carb to play with, and the throttle response is amazing. So anyway that's why I've been thinking about a FI conversion.

Anyway this is getting off topic for here. I did want to mention though that I actually did the bevel on the chamber edges, not the shop. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine to have machined edges that haven't been smoothed over. I also did more work on the head after that picture, mostly to the chambers and around the valve seats. I thought I had some later pictures than that but I can't seem to find them now. Oh well. I did ask the shop one time if they could do 5-angle seats, and they said certainly, but the cost would be higher.
The cam gear will be interesting to play with when it comes in too. As well as the S&S header, whenever I finally get it back. The coating guy is slower than molasses in January. Hopefully in the next couple weeks.

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[cygnus x-1]

are you going to use the a18a double springs?

Not sure who you're asking but I used A18 exhaust (double) springs for the exhausts and A18 intake (single) springs for the intakes. The A18 intake springs are significantly larger than A20 intake springs.

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[ghettogeddy]

Not sure who you're asking but I used A18 exhaust (double) springs for the exhausts and A18 intake (single) springs for the intakes. The A18 intake springs are significantly larger than A20 intake springs.
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were can u get them and are they price and hard to install

[cygnus x-1]

I used the springs from the original A18 head that was on the engine (an A18 of course). You can get them from a junkyard or from one of the various honda parts web sites. Easiest thing to do is probably to go yank a whole head from a junked Prelude (carburetted, 83-87). That way you have all the platforms and retainers and stuff. You could buy all new parts but for springs it's not such a big deal. If you're getting a new cam though you should get new rockers.

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[ghettogeddy]

so u would say rockauto would have everything
oh and what would they be calle di tryed to look but found nothing

[cygnus x-1]

Rockauto doesn't have everything and their prices aren't that good. Try here:

http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/

If you decide to get all new springs get the A18 ones. They cost the same and you won't ever have to worry about valve float. Honestly though I would just find a used head for the springs and such. It will be much cheaper and work just fine. Do get new rocker arms though (if you use a new cam).

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[ghettogeddy]

Rockauto doesn't have everything and their prices aren't that good. Try here:

http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/

If you decide to get all new springs get the A18 ones. They cost the same and you won't ever have to worry about valve float. Honestly though I would just find a used head for the springs and such. It will be much cheaper and work just fine. Do get new rocker arms though (if you use a new cam).

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should the rocker arms be form a a20 or a18 or are there better lol

[cygnus x-1]

The rocker arms are all the same.

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[ghettogeddy]

The rocker arms are all the same.

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ok cool ya i found the parts on the website u posted maybe if u have aim or if i send u the pic of the parts if u can tell me what all i will need i figure if im rebuilding i might as well go new u know

[2oodoor]

I have the DCOEs sitting here, I have a head that I'm going to port and polish myself. I want to boost the compression up to about 10:1. Maybe more, maybe not. Looking at Eagle rods, +.030 bore Arias custom pistons, and an upgraded valvetrain. A nice camshaft regrind should pretty much top it off.
NA carbed is the way I like it. Gonna be a great business car, eh?
Now THAT is "kickin it old school"
That is the kind of motor I would like to have/see/run

Ghettogeddy are you going to bore over even if your block doenst really need it or not? You can save alot of money by not and still have a strong durable motor. A lot of these Honda motors dont need boring even after 200K and such.

[ghettogeddy]

well i figured boring is a good for performance right or am i wroung it should give me a tiny bit more power or shoudl i just spend the money on proformance pistons and and stay stock size with stock rods

[cygnus x-1]

ok cool ya i found the parts on the website u posted maybe if u have aim or if i send u the pic of the parts if u can tell me what all i will need i figure if im rebuilding i might as well go new u know

Later tonight I can post a list of all the parts you need. I'm a master at navigating that website. I had LOTS of practice during my rebuild! :lol:
And I even printed out the diagrams and parts lists to make sure I didn't miss anything during assembly.

[cygnus x-1]

You will get very little extra power from over-boring. If you don't have to it's not worth the trouble. The shop will be able to tell you if it's needed or not.

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[ghettogeddy]

You will get very little extra power from over-boring. If you don't have to it's not worth the trouble. The shop will be able to tell you if it's needed or not.

C|
ok well then ill just get the regular piston size and go from there the ones im getting are about 60 are there any better performance wise pistons in the 150 range

[guaynabo89]

You will get very little extra power from over-boring. If you don't have to it's not worth the trouble. The shop will be able to tell you if it's needed or not.

C|

agreed!

Ghettogeddy....

What are your goals for rebuilding? turbo, nitrous or just some na pep?

[ghettogeddy]

agreed!
Ghettogeddy....
What are your goals for rebuilding? turbo, nitrous or just some na pep?
possible nitrous but more na build i was actually talking to a frind of mine and he said to have to tops of the pistons powder coated if im gona fun spray so thats another question ive never heard of anyone doing that is it legit

[cygnus x-1]

Unless you're doing a serious amount of nitrous I'm not sure you want to be doing things like coating pistons. It's one of those things where if you were at that level of build you would also have upgraded pistons and rods as well. The idea is to pick a level of performance and choose the parts to fit that performance level. Otherwise you end up spending money in places where it doesn't matter, or not enough in places where it does.

I guess it would depend on how much nitrous and how much the coating costs. Someone else might have a more informed opinion on this.

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[cygnus x-1]

Ok, so valvetrain parts. Here's a list of stuff to replace:
https://www.hondapartsdeals.com/images/hp_parts/13SB00.023.5.gif
Part No. Ill. No. Description Req. Qty Price
14621-PC6-600 001 ARM A, VALVE ROCKER 6 $11.68
14622-PC6-600 002 ARM B, VALVE ROCKER 6 $11.68
14745-657-000 012 SCREW, TAPPET ADJUSTING 12 $3.34
14751-PC6-003 013 SPRING, EX. VALVE (INNER) 4 $5.00
14761-PC6-004 014 SPRING, EX. VALVE (OUTER) 4 $6.06
14762-PC6-003 015 SPRING, VALVE 8 $7.78
14765-PC6-000 016 RETAINER, IN. VALVE SPRING 8 $2.22
14766-PC6-000 017 RETAINER, EX. VALVE SPRING 4 $2.22
14768-689-000 018 COTTER, VALVE 8 $1.91
14775-PH1-003 019 SEAT, IN. VALVE SPRING 8 $1.90
14776-PH1-003 020 SEAT, EX. VALVE SPRING 4 $2.11
14781-MB9-000 021 COTTER, VALVE 16 $1.67


The total cost here is $379. I still think you could snag most of these parts form a junkyard and save some money. But new parts are good too of course.

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[ghettogeddy]

here is the motor havent started to tare into it ye its still 90 degrees out lol so im gona wait for a bit lol
pics
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1529.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1530.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1531.jpg
and we only had one prob bolt on the flywhell and this is what it looks like now lol
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1533.jpg

[cygnus x-1]

Before you order any parts, take the block, head, and crank to the shop and have them checked out. That way you know if the block needs to be bored and if any other parts need to be replaced. It's easier to order lots of parts at once than to order a few here and there. Trust me, I learned the hard way.

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[Ichiban]

Exactly. Nothing says bitch like buying an entire non-returnable engine kit and finding out that the cylinders have already been bored .010 over and the crank needs a spin and undersize bearings. I also found out that the engine builders get their kits for about half what the average joe pays at the parts stores. Of course, after I bought mine.

[ghettogeddy]

got it striped down heres some pics lol
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1534.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1535.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1536.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1537.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1538.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1539.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1540.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1541.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1542.jpg
couldn't figure out how to get the bottom timing cover off so i jucst cut the timing belt im putting a new one on any ways

[Pico]

Damm that was quick...

[ghettogeddy]

Damm that was quick...
lol i couldent wait i told u i was thinking about this thing for the last 2 weeks lol

[A18A]

fun! :D

[Vanilla Sky]

Any pics of the head?

[ghettogeddy]

Any pics of the head?
ill get some in the morning

[MessyHonda]

looks like a good candidate for a rebuild

[rjudgey]

Apart from the oveheated oil looks like a perfectly rebuildable engine, honing marks still on bores so has done little mileage and had been serviced properly for most of it's early life. I'm guessing it's probably done between 80-100k miles only. The biggest thing to worry about is wear on the camshaft bearings on the head if there good everything else is easily fixable just get the bare head and block xrayed to check for cracks before you start machining it and buying parts. Block looks pretty clean not a lot of rust must have lived in a dry area most it's life. Good find anyways what you doing about gearbox?

[ghettogeddy]

Apart from the oveheated oil looks like a perfectly rebuildable engine, honing marks still on bores so has done little mileage and had been serviced properly for most of it's early life. I'm guessing it's probably done between 80-100k miles only. The biggest thing to worry about is wear on the camshaft bearings on the head if there good everything else is easily fixable just get the bare head and block xrayed to check for cracks before you start machining it and buying parts. Block looks pretty clean not a lot of rust must have lived in a dry area most it's life. Good find anyways what you doing about gearbox?
well it had 300k form what the guy said so idk lol also with the tranny i have 3 5speed's im planing on doing the teg swap on one of
them

[rjudgey]

blimey KM's or Miles? I've seen engines with 1/4 of that mileage look as bad as yours!! The bores look good what ever the mileage the head looks like the worst of it best thing to do is get all that shit chemically cleaned of it everything needs to be shiny and new!!

[ghettogeddy]

blimey KM's or Miles? I've seen engines with 1/4 of that mileage look as bad as yours!! The bores look good what ever the mileage the head looks like the worst of it best thing to do is get all that shit chemically cleaned of it everything needs to be shiny and new!!
thats miles i plane on taking everything apart for sure bare everything

[ghettogeddy]

Any pics of the head?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1554.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1553.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1552.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1548.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1547.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1546.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1545.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1543.jpg

[Cheeseburger]

looking good geddy :D

[rjudgey]

Looks like the guides on chamber one are shot as theres loads of oil on the chamber unlike the other 3 or maybe the rings are shot but more likely excessive guide wear or the seals are shot or both even!!. I love stripping old engines and re-building best thing to do on cars it's just a shame you can can't do the same to a car so easily!!

[ghettogeddy]

Looks like the guides on chamber one are shot as theres loads of oil on the chamber unlike the other 3 or maybe the rings are shot but more likely excessive guide wear or the seals are shot or both even!!. I love stripping old engines and re-building best thing to do on cars it's just a shame you can can't do the same to a car so easily!!
i see what ur talking about how its more shinny in no1

[MessyHonda]

im still looking for a machine shop here.

[ghettogeddy]

so ive decided to go all out lol but i need some help lol i need to knwo what kind and place to get the best pistons i can get for a na setup im not to tech on motors so i have no clue were to start

[speedpenguin]

Hooray for going all out! I could answer some of your questions, but they would just leave you wondering more. I'll let someone more experienced handle them.

[ghettogeddy]

ok so i talked to a local machine shop and its 100 to ge tthe block and head cleaned and xrayed so im gona do that this fri is there anything else i should have done at this time also i need some help on rods and pistons anyone got a good combo

[rjudgey]

The block if good could do with flatening the deck to make sure it's flat, you can take a little more off than normal to increase CR ratio too while your at it but nothing dramatic .5mm at most I'd say do the same to the head but you need to machine the chambers and flwo the head first before skiming the head this should be the second to last thing you do to the head before putting it back together the last thing is to smooth the edge of the chamber off after it's been skimmed to stop pre-ignition happening.

[cygnus x-1]

Get a good 3-angle valve job. Have the crank checked and maybe polished. Get the flywheel lightened and balanced.

For pistons and rods, if you're going all out get some eagle rods and forged pistons. For mild performance (up to 160HP) stick with stock pistons and rods.

C|

[ghettogeddy]

Get a good 3-angle valve job. Have the crank checked and maybe polished. Get the flywheel lightened and balanced.

For pistons and rods, if you're going all out get some eagle rods and forged pistons. For mild performance (up to 160HP) stick with stock pistons and rods.

C|
so the b18a/b eagle rods and what brand and model pistons thats the one i havent figured out yet

as far as the flywheel goes im gona get the clutchnet one with a 6puck sprung clutch and yellow pp all for about $545

[rjudgey]

Get the stage 1 red plate not yellow, also you know ceramic wears out quickly? I'd go with the carbon or kevlar sprung hub disk will be nearly as grippy and will last for ever!!

[ghettogeddy]

Get the stage 1 red plate not yellow, also you know ceramic wears out quickly? I'd go with the carbon or kevlar sprung hub disk will be nearly as grippy and will last for ever!!
i think the one i have in mind is a kevlar also whats the big dif between red and yellow if its just stiffness then im goin yellow lol

[AccordEpicenter]

the difference is clamp load and the pedal is stiffer with the red pressure plate but who the fuck cares. Id say get a red pressure plate with a kevlar disk if you want maximum holding and longevity. I have a double diaphram red pressure plate with a 6 puck sprung disk, its not too bad to drive and will hold anything you throw at it, literally (prolly good to 450lb-ft) its no joke.

[ghettogeddy]

im not gona be anywere near 450lbs lol maybe half that so ill stick with the yellow this thing is still gona be driven in san fran and those hills kill

[MessyHonda]

the difference is clamp load and the pedal is stiffer with the red pressure plate but who the fuck cares. Id say get a red pressure plate with a kevlar disk if you want maximum holding and longevity. I have a double diaphram red pressure plate with a 6 puck sprung disk, its not too bad to drive and will hold anything you throw at it, literally (prolly good to 450lb-ft) its no joke.



i would rather replace a clutch and replace a broken tranny every other month.

[rjudgey]

Fair enough i didn't think it was that bad, but i had a AP pressure plate before and i tried the stock one after that which was light as feather but it couldn't take the torque slipped real bad 140bhp is max on stock unit. A20 different though 160-170bhp should be okay as it was used on some B20A's too. I'd still go with the kevlar or carbon disk though and definately sprung, the lighter flwyheel will make life easier on the clutch as well.

[ghettogeddy]

Fair enough i didn't think it was that bad, but i had a AP pressure plate before and i tried the stock one after that which was light as feather but it couldn't take the torque slipped real bad 140bhp is max on stock unit. A20 different though 160-170bhp should be okay as it was used on some B20A's too. I'd still go with the kevlar or carbon disk though and definately sprung, the lighter flwyheel will make life easier on the clutch as well.
im def going kevlar 6puck sprung http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=17574&cat=0&page=1
i think its kevlar i know i read somewere thet they had one like that that was kevlar

[ghettogeddy]

look what i got in the mail what could it be pipe bomb
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1567.jpg
noooooooooooo my delta 272
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1568.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1569.jpg
but my question is how can u tell its a delta cam

[Blizzard]

I sent my cam to Delta to have it reground and when it came back there wernt any kind of markings on it.
Some of the lobes were kinda green though.

[ghettogeddy]

I sent my cam to Delta to have it reground and when it came back there wernt any kind of markings on it.
Some of the lobes were kinda green though.
but i should be able to tell with the stock one out right

[Blizzard]

If your asking if you can set them side by side and tell a diffrence then no. At least I cant tell a diffrence between the reground Delta and the stock one with the naked eye. I havnt put a mic on them or anything. The Delta was cleaner when it came back.

Ive got about 3 or 4 stock cams around the shop. I put some white out on the end of the regrind so I wouldnt get it mixed up.

[Pico]

look what i got in the mail what could it be pipe bomb
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1567.jpg
noooooooooooo my delta 242
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1568.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1569.jpg
but my question is how can u tell its a delta cam
Bastard...I officially hate you now......j/k :lol:

[ghettogeddy]

soory i messed up lol its a 272 not a 242 but i need to talk to the guy i got it from cause he bought a colt cam a while back and want to make sure its the right one lol

[Vanilla Sky]

I thought they stamped them at the end with the specs.

[ghettogeddy]

I thought they stamped them at the end with the specs.
i looked on the end there were some inscribed numbers but i put it away and in to lazy to get it out again lol ill look tomorrow

[Hans]

ok so i talked to a local machine shop and its 100 to ge tthe block and head cleaned and xrayed so im gona do that this fri is there anything else i should have done at this time also i need some help on rods and pistons anyone got a good combo

I saw an ad in several magazines about cryogenically freezing engine parts. They said it's supposed to make them harder, stronger, and more durable I think. Does anyone know someone who has tried this? Does it work? I'm just throwing out ideas.

[ghettogeddy]

im not to worried aout cryoing anything im not gona be pushing the numbers needed for it but yes it does help

[88Accord-DX]

You need a micrometer to measure the cam lobes at various points & compare to stock specs if your worried about that.

Is your first engine rebuild?

[ghettogeddy]

You need a micrometer to measure the cam lobes at various points & compare to stock specs if your worried about that.
Is your first engine rebuild?
yes this is my first build i didn't by it form delta but from a member here so im not sure in the specs

[ghettogeddy]

so the block and head went to the shop today to get baked and cleaned cant wait to see it all clean and and ready to get dirty again

[rjudgey]

That Clutch disk is ceramic not kevlar/carbon

this is more suitable for you i would imagine

http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=10423&cat=0&page=4

Or this one is good to had a clutchmasters one with similar design just wasn't built to last like clutchnet the centre sprung section fell apart after 25k miles

http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=11447&cat=0&page=5

[2ndGenGuy]

I dunno if all the cam grinding places send thier cams in the same packaging or not, but that's the EXACT same color paper that my cam came wrapped in from Colt.

[ghettogeddy]

I dunno if all the cam grinding places send thier cams in the same packaging or not, but that's the EXACT same color paper that my cam came wrapped in from Colt.
this one has been used before so i can only bet thats not the stock wrapping

[frantik]

*steals cam*

looking good geddy :cool:

[ghettogeddy]

ok so i know im getting the eagle rods but i have no clue what pistons to get and were to get them also trying to figure out what rod length to go with

[ghettogeddy]

ok so i know im getting the eagle rods but i have no clue what pistons to get and were to get them also trying to figure out what rod length to go with
bump time is dwindling away

[A20A1]

Strange, on the colt and other cams I saw an engraving on the cam near the distributor key slot or the cam gear slot or was it my imagination that there were engravings... I don't have my cam to double check, Shep has mine.

[ghettogeddy]

Strange, on the colt and other cams I saw an engraving on the cam near the distributor key slot or the cam gear slot or was it my imagination that there were engravings... I don't have my cam to double check, Shep has mine.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/ghettogeddy/101_1579.jpg

[ghettogeddy]

its a colt : and its labeld as a 4cyl 8 valve sohc to 1983 on the colt website

[ghettogeddy]

but if it was an 8v it would only have 2 lobes right i went out and matched it to my stock one it looked about the same

[MessyHonda]

so wuts up with the cam?

[A20A1]

Total for the head was $300. That included before and after washes, remachining the surface, cutting the valve seats, and regrinding the valves. They didn't charge me for the regrind on the seats which was cool since I didn't tell them to do a performance grind the first time (oops). If you're interested you can check out the whole rebuild here:

http://www.preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238337

C|


Are you going to weld those weber adapter plates together and then to the intake manifold... a vacuum leak will hurt performance and tuning bad, so you might as well eliminate the potential for one while you can. It will also allow you to port the plates more if you wanted. Also don't run too thick a gasket paper or it can lead to warping of the carb base and plates.

[ghettogeddy]

so wuts up with the cam?
well its a colt not a delta and its labeled as a 8v sohc cam

[MessyHonda]

oh...only colt i would get would be the triflow

[ghettogeddy]

oh...only colt i would get would be the triflow
lol no shit lol but the markings oin the cam are of a 8v but it matches my stock one so the markings would be wrong cause the 8v only has 2 lobs per cyl vs the 12v with 3 per cyl

[MessyHonda]

24valve v8? maybe the marking are just wrong cuz the cam does not look wrong. i have one but its just an lx-i one

[A20A1]

Well you have 12 lobes so you at least know it's for a 12 valve. :)

[ghettogeddy]

24valve v8? maybe the marking are just wrong cuz the cam does not look wrong. i have one but its just an lx-i one
ya thats 3 valves per cyl on a v8 lol, im still wondering about the piston thing can i use like b series pistons or is that only for the rods

[rjudgey]

Unless it's for a CVCC then it would have 12 lobes right? But it looks like the right camshaft though seems weird that they got codes wrong, think you might have to get it measured to make sure you got something suitable, if it's a tri flow oh well good find if it's just a normal regrind we still be perfectly good, personally not a fan of the triflow but i can see how in theory it should be better but i prefer all my valves opening up at the same time for as long and as far as possible and leaving the fuel and air mixing down to the fueling system and head.

[ghettogeddy]

ok so i know im getting the eagle rods but i have no clue what pistons to get and were to get them also trying to figure out what rod length to go with
bump some one mentioned forged pistons i need something high performance but that will pass smog

[ghettogeddy]

bump some one mentioned forged pistons i need something high performance but that will pass smog
anyone else have an idea i need to find out how much to save for pistons

[ghettogeddy]

so i was told about this company that does custom work that is supposed to be big with the d series guys http://www.importperformanceparts.net/ i emailed and asked about a set of 10 to 1 pistons also asked about connection rods here is the answer i got
Pistons$459 a set with pins,the only rods would be billets$699 a set with the pistons.
so is his a good deal or no

[Cheeseburger]

I Know Where U Live Geddy!

[ghettogeddy]

I Know Where U Live Geddy!
and

[rjudgey]

Sounds good to me especially if thats custom made!!
Set of forged pistons JE about $5-600 set of cheap ass eagle rods is $300 but Crower or Pauter will be $600

So sounds about right if you wanna be cheap then get the eagles and have this guy make the pistons to fit those, also see if he can do you pistons with just 3 valve reliefs so that you can run higher CR ratio, 10:1 is a bit low not much better than stock, you can go for at least 11:1 on pump gas even as high as 12:1 if you get flepro gasket but if your worried about gaskets then 11:1 should be fine with felpro will last 100k miles. Higher the CR ratio the more power you'll get from N/A engine.

[ghettogeddy]

the lower the cr the longer it last right lol

[AccordEpicenter]

i think im gonna go eagle for mine, they come with 3/8" arp 2000 bolts in them now

[ghettogeddy]

i think im just gona use stock rods its not like im gona be racing it much lol

[AccordEpicenter]

lol yeah right. Eagle FTW!!

[rjudgey]

Why don't you just get stock a20/a3/4 pistons and rods and use those, with some decking and skimming you can get nearly 10:1 CR ratio anyways. Sounds like your not too fussed about performance so might as well jus stick with the stock stuff and save yourself the money to spend on other things.

[2oodoor]

This is getting cornfusing.
#1 You know OEM is pretty dam durable. #2 you are this far along and still undecided on the bottom end build #3 You will wind up with over 2K in the rotating assembly if you go specialty aftermarket and custom machine work, then what is the point if you are not going all out.
You have some excellant advise integrated in this thread but from here it looks like you would be best served pickig a direction.Or a plan A plan B type thing (no pun lol) True it is difficult because you are taking your time, and you have no way of knowing what deals are going to pop up meanwhile:)

Just for curiosity how much is a warrenty complete
short block already built from a good machine shop?
That cam is strange, would a 12 valve cam fit on a 8 valve head, of course the lobes would not be used but do they physically line up the one intake lobe? If it is tri flow the two intake lobes are different anyway so it would be hard to dsingush. I don't know that I would like a triflow wiith carb engine personally.

On the carb adapters, ultimately having a one piece custom made would be the best, but buying the redline kit you have mutlitple pieces that are known (on jeeps, vw, mazdas, and hondas) for leaking vacuum eventually due to vibration, expansion, etc., so use thread locker on all fasteners, thin gaskets, and be careful with the carb studs that can push the adapter plate up and warp it. On mine I basically followed A20A1' s how to thread and bolted them together off the manifold and dremmeled them so ports match. Then only partially ported the plates to the intake manifold. After I bolted the whole assy togeter I used high heat epoxy to seal and bond it all ( externally only!!) so that it looked like all one piece. Even if the plates do try to open up leaks later, they will still not leak because they are sealed together. Welding the plates together does the exact same thing but make sure you find somebody that can do it without warping them. Even if they are welded, afterwards they will have to be dressed off and checked .
Depending on your resources, on that, the cost of that service may be close to having one made from billet stock. yea it helps to know people as well as knowing how to do it yourself, and even using someones equipment to do so.:rolleyes:

[AccordEpicenter]

well yeah the stock stuff isnt as bad as most people think but i dont like to cheap out on engine internals i wished i would have upgraded/replaced in the long run. I look at it this way, stock rods are fine and will work pretty good even for pretty good power levels (300+hp) but you should upgrade rod bolts, have them shot peened, and then have the big ends resized due to changing rod bolts. They will be pretty strong but with all that work to do to them, money wise its best to just go with a set of eagles unless youre seriously strapped for cash, machine work isnt cheap

[ghettogeddy]

see thats the thing i have some experience but have no clue how many ways there are to hit 160hp the cheapest way u know im not strapped for cash but i dont have enough to just go buy everything at once thats why i started this thread to begin with to find the best means to get 160hp and my mind has changed so much scenes the start of this thread

[rjudgey]

See now i disagree, rod bolts from honda are really really strong even though i had my rods flying around smashing up the block the rod bolts never broke, where as the stock rods with only 200bhp but with the engine being constantly ragged to 7500rpm they broke at the thinnest point on the neck just below the piston skirt.

But if he's just happy with 160bhp and as long as he outs a rev limiter on at 7krpm stock rods and pistons will last at least 60-100k miles before wearing out or breaking.

The money spent on the rods and pistons would be overkill for this build but if he suddenly though hell i bored with 160bhp and wanted to push for more your bottom end will explode thats a given trust me on this i've blown enough up to now what the weak spots are and the imitations on all the parts in out engines.

At end of day you have to work out howmuch you wnat to put in it and if you really are going to be happy with 160bhp which less face it most normal everyday cars have 160bhp so you sure you only what to go this far ultimately? Having the rods adn pistons would give you very good reliability if you wanted to shoot for 200+bhp N/A or Forced induction or even bit of NOS.

[ghettogeddy]

See now i disagree, rod bolts from honda are really really strong even though i had my rods flying around smashing up the block the rod bolts never broke, where as the stock rods with only 200bhp but with the engine being constantly ragged to 7500rpm they broke at the thinnest point on the neck just below the piston skirt.
But if he's just happy with 160bhp and as long as he outs a rev limiter on at 7krpm stock rods and pistons will last at least 60-100k miles before wearing out or breaking.
The money spent on the rods and pistons would be overkill for this build but if he suddenly though hell i bored with 160bhp and wanted to push for more your bottom end will explode thats a given trust me on this i've blown enough up to now what the weak spots are and the imitations on all the parts in out engines.
At end of day you have to work out howmuch you wnat to put in it and if you really are going to be happy with 160bhp which less face it most normal everyday cars have 160bhp so you sure you only what to go this far ultimately? Having the rods adn pistons would give you very good reliability if you wanted to shoot for 200+bhp N/A or Forced induction or even bit of NOS.
no ill be happy with 160hp im shooting for a little more power plus a good life span on the motor, im just misunderstanding the way to get the hp is it more head work or pistons changing to a 10 -1 compression is gona give me power or reliablity

[cygnus x-1]

Increasing the compression ratio raises the volumetric efficiency of the engine; which means you get more power. 10:1 compression will boost power output a little bit with pretty much no affect on reliability. The key to a reliable engine is in the build quality. Make sure all the machine work is done to factory specs. Use good quality bearings and gaskets. During assembly keep everything super clean. Follow all torque specs religiously. Have the pistons, rods, crank, and flywheel balanced. Obviously all the parts have to be of high quality as well but genuine Honda parts are some of the best.

For 160HP at the crank stock pistons and rods will be fine. Bumping up the compression ratio will just help you get there.

C|

[ghettogeddy]

Increasing the compression ratio raises the volumetric efficiency of the engine; which means you get more power. 10:1 compression will boost power output a little bit with pretty much no affect on reliability. The key to a reliable engine is in the build quality. Make sure all the machine work is done to factory specs. Use good quality bearings and gaskets. During assembly keep everything super clean. Follow all torque specs religiously. Have the pistons, rods, crank, and flywheel balanced. Obviously all the parts have to be of high quality as well but genuine Honda parts are some of the best.

For 160HP at the crank stock pistons and rods will be fine. Bumping up the compression ratio will just help you get there.

C|
so i guess all the hp comes from the head work then

[Tomisimo]

I wish thet i had a garage. Nice work Man. realy clean.

[2oodoor]

so i guess all the hp comes from the head work then
A humorous analogization to help break it down...
The Rat in your avatar. well the little raschal is going to be part of an engine here.
First he has one of those rat spin wheel exercisers OK:
the wheel itself- flywheel
the center bearing , shaft, and retainer- crankshaft
His legs- rod piston assembly
The amount of steps or vanes inside the wheel represents- compression ratio
Compression ratio would be represented by how many steps or vanes he walks on , fewer being high comp, more steps being lower compression

Ok now you have the short block made. So, think how the build quality of the balance, bearing design, and weight of the cage... would influence how fast the rat could get it going and maintain it that fast. a nice micro sealed rollor bearing in the shaft ends, wheel balanced so it does not have an offset to it that could cause a vibration or make it more difficult for the rat to maintain an even pace, or be able to increase and decrease the speed without stumbling on his head. The compression ratio, how many leg stretches per revolution are required to obtain a predetermined output ratio/which translates to crank horsepower. Remember he is not going to get much more tired with either as long as the wheel is assembled with meticulous attention to making it incredibly easy to spin and keep spinning without much effort. Just having fewer steps, or higher compression, will get that to that HP output more assertively.

NOW, the marsupial's internals, or health represents the induction system which includes ignition, fuel deliver, air delvery, head, valves, and all involved. The ole boy needs to be a good sprinter aye?
Ign- brain and autonomic nervous system- precise thought with coordination
Air Fuel induction- eye ear nose and throat -no boogers, newports or flem
Head assy complete, intake valves, cam, cam timing, exhaust flow- Lungs and Heart- very important to make this whole thing get to maximum wheel or crank output as quickley as possible and be able to maintain that output.

So, I hope that clears things up on where Horsepower begins and what percentage of each area you need to get there.
Short block- OEM or custom machine build- quality metals and tolorances- well balanced and strong joints...err rod cap bolts
Head-and Fuel/Air delivery- built to push combustable mixture through fast, on time, and steady flow without gasping for breath
Turbos, NOS, supercharging, vaccum pumps, all forced induction (blowing little Stuart shotguns) all require extra durable goods on the cage and his legs so they do not give under the increased pressure or down force.
the end:thumbup:

[speedpenguin]

That's a guinea pig, not a rat. :D

[rjudgey]

The powers in the combination of everything, increasing CR ratio, camshaft duration, increasing flow in the head and the induction system, increased flow in the exhaust. REally the camshaft is the heart of the engine and dictates howmuch you can squeeze out of your engine, everything else is really a bottleneck, if a 270 degree camshaft had the most efficient intake and exhaust in the world it would happily give you 9k rpm with 300bhp (example) but as nothign in this world is ever perfect espcialy production engines your lucky to get 170-180bhp and rev to 7k rpm.

If your headwork is top notch and the exhaust and intake is efficient you won't need excessive camshafts and high revs which in turn will mean your engine will be more reliable as you won't be having to rev as high meaning less wear on rings, bearings and valvetrain parts, torque will be better too and so will fuel efficiency so with a well done engine build you should see some gains in mpg but if you do stick your foot down it will increase dramatically cause although you've better efficiency you've also made it a whole lot easier to comsume more as well!!!!

[2oodoor]

That's a guinea pig, not a rat. :D
Ok, I never met him (it) so we were not formally introduced. sorry "G" dog... err I mean pig.
Also I am in no way trying to sound condesending or insulting ,Ghettogeddy, Im just casting the point with the metaphor contrast, being southern.

[speedpenguin]

I thought that was a really cool explanation, actually, I was just giving you shit.

[ghettogeddy]

Ok, I never met him (it) so we were not formally introduced. sorry "G" dog... err I mean pig.
Also I am in no way trying to sound condesending or insulting ,Ghettogeddy, Im just casting the point with the metaphor contrast, being southern.
no none takin im in the learning stage and quite frankly im a noob at engines u gove me some suspension and i can do it but trying to gain hp is like another language lol

[cygnus x-1]

And guinea pigs are rodents, not marsupials. :D

C|

[2oodoor]

And guinea pigs are rodents, not marsupials. :D

C|
:uh: my bad, I always had an issue of Hot Vw's inside my biology textbook

[Sporno]

A humorous analogization to help break it down...
The Rat in your avatar. well the little raschal is going to be part of an engine here.
First he has one of those rat spin wheel exercisers OK:
the wheel itself- flywheel
the center bearing , shaft, and retainer- crankshaft
His legs- rod piston assembly
The amount of steps or vanes inside the wheel represents- compression ratio
Compression ratio would be represented by how many steps or vanes he walks on , fewer being high comp, more steps being lower compression
Ok now you have the short block made. So, think how the build quality of the balance, bearing design, and weight of the cage... would influence how fast the rat could get it going and maintain it that fast. a nice micro sealed rollor bearing in the shaft ends, wheel balanced so it does not have an offset to it that could cause a vibration or make it more difficult for the rat to maintain an even pace, or be able to increase and decrease the speed without stumbling on his head. The compression ratio, how many leg stretches per revolution are required to obtain a predetermined output ratio/which translates to crank horsepower. Remember he is not going to get much more tired with either as long as the wheel is assembled with meticulous attention to making it incredibly easy to spin and keep spinning without much effort. Just having fewer steps, or higher compression, will get that to that HP output more assertively.
NOW, the marsupial's internals, or health represents the induction system which includes ignition, fuel deliver, air delvery, head, valves, and all involved. The ole boy needs to be a good sprinter aye?
Ign- brain and autonomic nervous system- precise thought with coordination
Air Fuel induction- eye ear nose and throat -no boogers, newports or flem
Head assy complete, intake valves, cam, cam timing, exhaust flow- Lungs and Heart- very important to make this whole thing get to maximum wheel or crank output as quickley as possible and be able to maintain that output.
So, I hope that clears things up on where Horsepower begins and what percentage of each area you need to get there.
Short block- OEM or custom machine build- quality metals and tolorances- well balanced and strong joints...err rod cap bolts
Head-and Fuel/Air delivery- built to push combustable mixture through fast, on time, and steady flow without gasping for breath
Turbos, NOS, supercharging, vaccum pumps, all forced induction (blowing little Stuart shotguns) all require extra durable goods on the cage and his legs so they do not give under the increased pressure or down force.
the end:thumbup:

im guessing a supercharger is like steroids ... and NOS is equal to infusing the little guy with liquid chuck norris

[88Accord-DX]

2 months later & you aint got that bitch rebuilt? We want to see some result or your fucking FIRED!!! :flip:

[Pico]

2 months later & you aint got that bitch rebuilt? We want to see some result or your fucking FIRED!!! :flip:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.................. ..........:lol:
Just joking Geddy...:D

[AccordEpicenter]

this thread is soo last month you guys

[ghettogeddy]

lol its slowly not going anywere lol i have all the time in the world just no money i keep getting sidetracked but it will get done just not sure when

[Pico]

lol its slowly not going anywere lol i have all the time in the world just no money i keep getting sidetracked but it will get done just not sure when
I know what you mean, so much I want to do to the car but no time and especially no $$$ :(

[Pico]

Did you get the pistons in today?

[ghettogeddy]

Did you get the pistons in today?
got them on the 11th
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?p=810937&posted=1#post810937

[BITESIZE]

Yay for geddy and the geddy mobile getting a new engine!!

[ghettogeddy]

just got back from dropping my pistons off, he said the clean/bake/hone/bore should be done this friday only cost me 110 lol so noe i have to order new valves so i can get them performanced up and a 3 angle and i should be set to put it back together

[88Accord-DX]

That is cheap. Guess you got some connections for that price.

[ghettogeddy]

That is cheap. Guess you got some connections for that price.

lol no im just a walk in

[frantik]

so when's the geddy mobile gonna ride again son? it's been sleeping too long :-p

[88Accord-DX]

Sometimes it's hard to rebuild with the internet. :violin:

[MessyHonda]

lol no im just a walk in



well since im going to have an extra engine i might as well rebuild it also. where is the place located. i need to get rid of the parts car pronto.

[ghettogeddy]

here in antioch well its in oakley
im telling u get it brought over here
then we can strip it
and call pick and pull to come get it
shit we can take it to my parents house and do it there

[MessyHonda]

here in antioch well its in oakley
im telling u get it brought over here
then we can strip it
and call pick and pull to come get it
shit we can take it to my parents house and do it there

i dont have any more tows for this year. unless i pay like 65 bucks. il call them on the morn since i wont be working on sat.

[ghettogeddy]

i dont have any more tows for this year. unless i pay like 65 bucks. il call them on the morn since i wont be working on sat.

ok
ill help pay if i have to