86 Accord LX-i showing code 12, need help...

[BigDaddyJC]

My ECU is flashing code 12-EGR Lift Sensor-(Exhaust Gas Recirculation)- defective or unplugged. Where the heck is this sensor located?
My car has also went from idling at 800 rpm to 1500 rpm and sometimes surging up and down, and the Fuel Injection light comes on now after about 5 minutes of driving the car.
I am fixing to undertake installation of a CAI I just bought-94-98 Accord and there are about 4 vaccum lines attached to my factory intake breather system and I need to get rid of all of them that are not actually necessary.

Anyone got any info. on this stuff? Will the EGR Lift Sensors off any 86-89 EFI 2.0 engine interchange with mine? I have an 89 parts car and could use the stuff off it if it will work.

[BigDaddyJC]

Here is an underhood pic of my car. Can someone point out to me the EGR Valve location?
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p257/mondolog/4-16-07001-1.jpg

[2oodoor]

Ok it looks like the 86 EFI is a black sheep, it is not like any of the other set ups. You have vaccuum signals coming from in front of the throttle body, several of them.
check vacuum lines 16 and 24, make sure they are connected properly.

Has anybody else had any experience with installing CAI on a 86 Lxi?

[bobafett]

I cannot help you with the EGR code, my car is doing the same thing, and I havent figured it out yet (although I don't actually have an EGR valve in the car, I am just trying to fake it out)

just by describing, look at your valve cover, then see the little elbow of tubing that is your breather hose, well where that hose takes a 90 degree turn and points to the left, it is 'pointing' at the top of the egr valve, that stupid looking device with the metal strap over the top of it. should also have a vacuum line and a electrical connection on it.

if you can verify that a (the correct) vac line is plugged in, and the electrical connection is plugged in, then you may need to test the valve. I am not positive how to do that off the top of my head.

it looks like you already have the breather line in the intake, that is fine. then there will be 2 loose hoses that go in to the black box. unplug them, and drill holes in your intake to allow those hoses to plug in. I know there is a couple more hoses to deal with, but I cannot remember where they came from, my car hasn't been stock for a long long time. i know the hose that will be loose on the drivers side of the engine bay, i T'd together with another hose from the passenger side, and hooked them both up to a breather filter, I think one of them went to the idle control valve, but I cannot remember what the 4th hose went to, I want to say the valve cover breather hose, but I know thats not right.

[2oodoor]

It seems like if this was not a problem before the mod, something with the mod changed it. That one vacuum line is goes to a metered instrument that is calibrated to the cavity of the factory intake I am guessing. It reads to the EGR sensor.
I can get you a test sequence for EGR but I dont think that will fix this problem, Like bobafett says, you are going to have to configure the vacuum signals to trick the ECU.
A better diagram may be in the factory manual online, here is link
http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/shopmanual.html

[bobafett]

there should be a couple really good diagrams in the manual. unfortunately there are some EGR components inside the mystery black box, they have something to do with the vac signal that the egr valve reads from. I am not sure what type of vac reading that hose 'should' have under which driving conditions, but IMO the easiest way (what I want to try to do) is somehow use a resistor or something to trick the ECU so that I dont need the valve at all (I already have a b-series manifold, with no egr valve)... but I am not sure where to start.

[2oodoor]

This 86 FI black box system looks as fickled as the carb set up:omg:
working with resistance, most better on the ground side of things. I can get a schematic of the ECU.

[BigDaddyJC]

I went out at lunch and rerouted two of those vacuum lines on the driver side that were tied into the little valve with a plastic knob and spring on it. I just jumped this valves vacuum hose back into the intake directly, and removed the other electric solonoid or whatever it was connecting up to this fast idle valve. I left the wiring plug connected and just tucked the two vacuum connections back up out of the way until I see if this will make any more problems. Doing this eliminated on vaccum hose. Now I only have my PVC and one small and one large that goes into the mysterious black box....:huh:

[2oodoor]

Instead of that elaborate hose set up for crankcase vent you have going to CAI, why dont you use a small breather on the valve cover nipple. It just has to get clean air. I think I got this one from walmart.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t280/roodoo2/Picture016.jpg

[bobafett]

the 2 hoses that go into the black box, that are now disconnected:
- drill two holes into the intake pipe, somewhere on the bottom, near the elbow bend of the pipe (so they are out of the way and not laying across your engine bay
- take the hoses, and wrap the ends in tape so they fit SNUG inside the holes you just drilled
- if you want to be fancy you could go to hardware store and get threaded nipples,but the aluminum intake piping wont make it easy to drill and get any good threads catching. since its not a pressurized system, i just stuck them there with tape.

the PCV hose
- buy a cheapo breather filter, and place it on the nipple on your valve cover
- now you can remove the line that goes from the valve cover to intake piping.

idle assist valve (or whatever its called)
- disconnect the vac line that goes from the intake manifold to the idle assist valve.
- plug the intake manifold hole that you just left open
- unplug the idle assist valve
- there will have been a hose that got filtered air that came from the back of the stock intake box, that is where the 'feed' for the idle assist comes from, and if the ecu determines it needs more air, it will allow more to bypass the tb, and go straight into the intake manifold.
- since the intake manifold hole is plugged now, you can eliminate this entire system. the vac lines, the idle assist, etc, can be removed.

prepare for slightly worse gas mileage after this, the car ran fine, but i didnt gain any efficiency, thats for sure.

i hope this helps a little bit. i would take pics of my car for reference, but i have like 20% of the stock stuff in place, and my car doesnt right properly right now anyways, so it would be a bad example/ hehe

[2oodoor]

That sounds good ! Efficiency can be made up elsewhere by advancing ign timing a little, exhaust work, etc.

[BigDaddyJC]

I'll give this all a try and see what happens today on my way home. Thanks a bunch guys. As always, your expertise is appreciated......:)

[Oldblueaccord]

http://home.comcast.net/~joeblowut2004/EGR_Valve.jpg
Its there with the silver top on it.
wp

[AccordB20A]

i have had the same problem with that gay rev bouncing thing at idle. to fix mine it was to do with the fast idle doofer on the back of the intake manifold. ya can take the top off it and adjust it but sometimes this wont fit it. you will need to check that the two water pipes in the bottom of it are both flowing and not blocked. cause when hot water runs thru this valve it shuts it lowrering the idle to normal for warm engine operation. from my experience with it if that still doesnt stop it you can admust your tps a little bit to allow for the air thats geting in. jst thought id add that cause thats what fixed mine

[BigDaddyJC]

Well, I still got the code flashing, but the car runs fine again now. Did away with all that stuff off the driver side and eliminated two vacuum lines there.
Got the PVC using a small filter now, that did away with another hose.
Now I only have the small and large vacuum lines from the Black Box on the driver side firewall going to my intake tube.
All seems well right now. Gas milage doesnt seem to be any noticable difference either. I idled the car back up a little also, and now the bouncy idle crap went away also. Not sure though if idling it up or doing away with all that other stuff on the driver side of the intake stopped it....:huh:
I'll work on the EGR code thing next and see what is going on with it. I think if I get it to stop showing the code, then my Red light on the dash will go out also.