Old School Says Don't Rev Engine

[bushbean]

Query: Is reving the engine while not in gear by jabbing the gas pedal bad?

My pop says he was taught back in the old days that that was bad for the engine and that reving the engine to high RPM while not in gear is generally bad too. However, he doesn't know why. An old wife's tale, or is there some truth behind this?

[Cheeseburger]

Honda's are reving happy engines :D

[MessyHonda]

thoes problems are only in american V8s....this guy i went to school with blew up his GMC engine like that....by reving it to like 5k and bringing it down....he did it on 86? and the engine took a crap.

[Oldblueaccord]

Crank flex.

On/off free reving makes the crank flex in the block. Prolly not have to worry to much on Honda's but there is no reason to d it alot.

wp

[2ndGenGuy]

No it won't hurt any engine. That doesn't even make any sense. It's designed to spin up to a certain point. Why would it matter if it's a V8 or a 4 banger?

I'm going to say no unless someone can find some real reason why it's true.

EDIT: The crank flex thing got in just before I posted. :D

About that though, why would the crank flex more just because the car is in neutral? Most cars engines still have the resistance of the flywheel on it (and quite a heavy resistance at that). And if there was load on the engine, the resistance would cause more flex than if there was no load on the engine if you ask me...

[Hans]

I think that reving the engine is fine as long as you don't go up to high and as long as the rev is smooth. I believe that it will cause premature wear on your engine, but too much of anything generally leads to failure. If you constantly punch the gas and jolt the engine it will def tear it up quickly.

[2ndGenGuy]

I think that reving the engine is fine as long as you don't go up to high and as long as the rev is smooth. I believe that it will cause premature wear on your engine, but too much of anything generally leads to failure. If you constantly punch the gas and jolt the engine it will def tear it up quickly.

+1 Agreed!

[bushbean]

Why do racers rev their engine up and down just before starting? At least, that's what I see in Hollywood movies all the time.

[Ichiban]

It doesn't make sense that a crank would flex more under no-load situations than under a load situation, given both occur within the normal operating range of the engine.

[Blizzard]

Why do racers rev their engine up and down just before starting? At least, that's what I see in Hollywood movies all the time.


Clears the plugs.



Far as the rest of this. Reving the engine out of gear isnt any diffrent than reving it in gear so long as you dont over rev it.
Reving it and droping it in gear on an automatic is bad.

[Oldblueaccord]

I just wrote a 3 parargragh reply that got lost .....
so to make it short at idle your ging from 1k to 5k in less then a second where as under load even in 1st it takes much longer and the drop is much less.

Domestic motor in general were not balanced.


wp

[Hans]

so to make it short at idle your ging from 1k to 5k in less then a second where as under load even in 1st it takes much longer and the drop is much less.

wp
Makes a lot of sense.

[88Accord-DX]

Most of the reason American engines are lower reving is because of typical American driving habits. We don't like the sound and vibrations associated with high revs and we do like torque. Hell, most Americans don't even like to shift gears and thats another reason why we need engines that have more torque, to feed the energy sapping automatic transmission. Torque is created by having a longer stroke and there are limitations on piston speeds and rotational speeds involved with really long strokes having to do with the inertia of the engine components. Americans drive these types of engines because we can. The rest of the world uses smaller higher reving more efficient engines because their gas costs more.

Engines like in your parents van are large displacement engines. They make their power by the tried and true method of having more room in the combustion chamber for the fuel/air package. More package more power. The old saying goes "there ain't no replacement for displacement." These types of engines typicaly have more torque due to a longer stroke required to get that displacement and still get a compact engine size and effiecent fuel burn as well as make American buyers happy. These engines deliver the classic american hot rod experience. Step on the gas and your head snaps back. We like that.

Having said that, the down side of these engines are that they are big and heavy, and generally not as efficient as smaller high reving engines. (all things equal regarding aspiration and construction materials) A smaller 4 cylinder high reving engine is going to produce more HP to it's weight than a comparably equiped V8.

It all comes down to power to weight ratio. Of course you can modify Cameros and Mustangs with even bigger power plants, but you will give up handling. In the case of Nascar you'll notice that while these bigger cars also use V8 engines, and can handle well, those engines are operating at very high RPMs. In general with engineering, if you can operate a system at a higher freqency then you improve efficiency.

[Hans]

:bow: :bow:

[2oodoor]

Just Say No to Reving Engines in neutral !!!
Sure a little reving , controled, sensable... won't make your crank push the pistons out the head. BUT keep in mind there is a tendency to overrev because the engine is not loaded, and all sorts of damage can occur from damaging accessories (ie water pump, alternator, etc.) to spinning rod bearings, fatiguing valve springs, any number of things.
Another example to compare by is AC electric motors, eash one has a load rating. This is accomplished by using an amp probe on the source wire(s) and running the motor with a certain amount of load stated in the specs, a certain amp draw to rpm. If you don't have that correct (too little load or too much) the motor will shortley burn up. Not quite the same I know but there is a reason to the science of that, resistance/friction vs energy /time (current) or combustion in a car engine.. vs excessive energy without a place to go.

Do they measure torque and horsepower on engines by hooking up instruments and letter her rip at neutral... hmmmm in that case you could have a HP guage on your dash.

[Tomisimo]

About thet Lazy American V8. There are no spinn happy engines.
On the ather side of the world, in Germany, they produce V8's with 32valves. F.eks. AUDI and Mercedes. Engines thet produce lots of power with out forsed induktion. In average 330HP to 500HP... Americans stil have to lern how to build a proper engine.

Well, this is how i see it.

[bushbean]

About thet Lazy American V8. There are no spinn happy engines.
On the ather side of the world, in Germany, they produce V8's with 32valves. F.eks. AUDI and Mercedes. Engines thet produce lots of power with out forsed induktion. In average 330HP to 500HP... Americans stil have to lern how to build a proper engine.
Well, this is how i see it.

The Germans can build awesome V8 engines, but German machines are outrageously expensive. Only the elites can afford them. Americans can build awesome V8, too, but we choose not to for business reasons. I mean, why spend all that money on R&D for an engine that only a few can afford. The Japanese are even smarter business-wise. Most of them chose not to build V8 at all.

[2oodoor]

The Germans can build awesome V8 engines, but German machines are outrageously expensive. Only the elites can afford them. Americans can build awesome V8, too, but we choose not to for business reasons. I mean, why spend all that money on R&D for an engine that only a few can afford. The Japanese are even smarter business-wise. Most of them chose not to build V8 at all.
hey man, the Ford 4.6 liter OHC v8 engine is an awesome base engine, and there are many hi po versions of that design.
Cadillac NorthStar is another one, though not as reliable IMO.

[Estimated Prophet]

Do they measure torque and horsepower on engines by hooking up instruments and letter her rip at neutral... hmmmm in that case you could have a HP guage on your dash.

Isn't this how hp/tq is measured at the crank?

[lostforawhile]

some cars have a torque horepower gauge on the dash,the computer knows exactly how much power the engine will produce under certain parameters,these didn't work on old school engines,because the fuel wasn't as well metered. with modern fuel injection the computer already knows the exact displacment of the engine,the rpm,and every other factor you can think of. it can calculate horsepower exactly. they also measure load on the engine to figure in this equasion,it's all math. as far as hondas hurting to rev the engine,the only ones i've heard damage too,were ricers sitting in parking lots just reving the engine and bouncing it off the rev limiter. some of the earlier honda engines,like the 1200 civic engine,actually had a full stud girdle like a drag car. crank flex didn't exist in those engines. remember these cars,and every other honda were designed down from bikes, i think Mr. Honda knew a thing or two about building a high reving engine.

[2ndGenGuy]

Most of the reason American engines are lower reving is because of typical American driving habits. We don't like the sound and vibrations associated with high revs and we do like torque. Hell, most Americans don't even like to shift gears and thats another reason why we need engines that have more torque, to feed the energy sapping automatic transmission. Torque is created by having a longer stroke and there are limitations on piston speeds and rotational speeds involved with really long strokes having to do with the inertia of the engine components. Americans drive these types of engines because we can. The rest of the world uses smaller higher reving more efficient engines because their gas costs more.
Engines like in your parents van are large displacement engines. They make their power by the tried and true method of having more room in the combustion chamber for the fuel/air package. More package more power. The old saying goes "there ain't no replacement for displacement." These types of engines typicaly have more torque due to a longer stroke required to get that displacement and still get a compact engine size and effiecent fuel burn as well as make American buyers happy. These engines deliver the classic american hot rod experience. Step on the gas and your head snaps back. We like that.
Having said that, the down side of these engines are that they are big and heavy, and generally not as efficient as smaller high reving engines. (all things equal regarding aspiration and construction materials) A smaller 4 cylinder high reving engine is going to produce more HP to it's weight than a comparably equiped V8.
It all comes down to power to weight ratio. Of course you can modify Cameros and Mustangs with even bigger power plants, but you will give up handling. In the case of Nascar you'll notice that while these bigger cars also use V8 engines, and can handle well, those engines are operating at very high RPMs. In general with engineering, if you can operate a system at a higher freqency then you improve efficiency.


I already posted a reply to this in another thread, but here's how I see it:

"I don't know how true that is. How do you define efficent? Is it HP per liter? HP per liter is a mechanical/technological measurement, not an overall car performance trait. What relevancy does that have when it comes to performance of a car? Overall power to weight isn't going to be affected as much with an engine block as other weight reduction methods in a car...

Take a look at the Corvette. The car has gobs of toruqe, 500hp, and still gets 28mpg. Sounds pretty damn efficent to me. One cam, and pushrod-driven valves...

Also, the C6R has gobs of torque compared to most LeMans cars and tends to be a race winner. Also, look at the turbo diesel Audi R10 LeMans car. It also is a huge race winner. Torque seems to be the biggest factor. Waiting for your engine to wind up before you get power can be a killer."

[2oodoor]

Isn't this how hp/tq is measured at the crank?
not exactly, engine only dynos do load the engine.
HP guage ? Yes a modern car with a full body and drivetrain computer could measure hp to a degree but some of the parimeters are built in, the engineers already know what the vehicle will do.

[Blkblurr]

Older engines can be damaged by neutral reving because they don't have fuel cotoffs when redlining like the new ones do. There is nothing to limit the rpms as you do when in gear and moving. Age is another issue with reving in neutral. agian no limit to rpms and loose engines fly apart.

[race12001]

Why do racers rev their engine up and down just before starting? At least, that's what I see in Hollywood movies all the time.

also if they have purge n20 in then they make sure the get most of it out cause if they don then it will spit back through the carb

[Tomisimo]

The Germans can build awesome V8 engines, but German machines are outrageously expensive. Only the elites can afford them. Americans can build awesome V8, too, but we choose not to for business reasons. I mean, why spend all that money on R&D for an engine that only a few can afford. The Japanese are even smarter business-wise. Most of them chose not to build V8 at all.

You say fo business reasons. Thet is just stupid. One example.
Ford have now lounched a GT500 version of their Mustang. Nice car to look at. Sure. But Why put an extra power with out upgradeng the suspention?
They say it will cost them an :gun: 500$ extra.
This is the reason why Am-Motors are lazy. Kopitalism

[backhatcher]

nono it isnt lazyness, its simply this, why build something that will outplay and outlast everybody .They want us to continue upgrading to newer cars because it keeps their business going longer and its cheaper so everyone will buy one.so make it only last for so long then if the customer isnt mechanically inclined, they are more opted to go get a new one which is also why cars rot so much easier these days.

[Steve_Si]

About thet Lazy American V8. There are no spinn happy engines.
On the ather side of the world, in Germany, they produce V8's with 32valves. F.eks. AUDI and Mercedes. Engines thet produce lots of power with out forsed induktion. In average 330HP to 500HP... Americans stil have to lern how to build a proper engine.
Well, this is how i see it.

Yeah and when something goes wrong, you better get another mortgage on your house to pay for it. Not to mention they are seriously bad on gas

Japanese engines ftw. No other country can match the combined price, performance and reliability.

[Tomisimo]

nono it isnt lazyness, its simply this, why build something that will outplay and outlast everybody .They want us to continue upgrading to newer cars because it keeps their business going longer and its cheaper so everyone will buy one.so make it only last for so long then if the customer isnt mechanically inclined, they are more opted to go get a new one which is also why cars rot so much easier these days.

Yeah. I can acept thet, but it stil just ...... !!! Here in europe we have cars thet last long, and nice to drive. But we still bye a new one...



Yeah and when something goes wrong, you better get another mortgage on your house to pay for it. Not to mention they are seriously bad on gas

Japanese engines ftw. No other country can match the combined price, performance and reliability.

Steve, an American engine drink alot more then more powerfull EU engine.
But i must agree on Japanese cas, they are reliable cars, and great on power. exept Toyota. Parodist N1.

[backhatcher]

yea it is a very annoying system actually senceless to design something that will corrupt quickly, but thats the great american ways of money making i suppose, throw em a peice of junk and load it with a few years warranty is all I see nowadays, but back on topic with revving engines, its fine by me ive revved the piss out of all my cars and never had issues, keep the oil changed and dont do it frequently or its just common sence to throw a rod or twist yer crank goodbye

[2ndGenGuy]

Okay, I'm going to say it one more time. Corvette!

This car proves that American V8's are not bad. Saying they are inefficient and unreliable is ridiculous. They days of the late 70's and and 80's V8's are gone.

The Corvette C6 Z06 puts out 500hp and STILL gets 28mpg. There isn't a puny, high-revving European V8 that can even begin to touch that. There are no reliability issues with American V8's that I've ever heard of. Tolerances are tighter now, they're not the same 350's from 1965. The elitist Euro-car mentality needs to stop. It's closed-minded and completely wrong.

[Tomisimo]

Okay, I'm going to say it one more time. Corvette!

This car proves that American V8's are not bad. Saying they are inefficient and unreliable is ridiculous. They days of the late 70's and and 80's V8's are gone.

The Corvette C6 Z06 puts out 500hp and STILL gets 28mpg. There isn't a puny, high-revving European V8 that can even begin to touch that. There are no reliability issues with American V8's that I've ever heard of. Tolerances are tighter now, they're not the same 350's from 1965. The elitist Euro-car mentality needs to stop. It's closed-minded and completely wrong.

Yes, but how much this Corvette costs? Corvette is a alite class of their Chevy.
The point is!!! thet American manufacturers is reping you all by sellin crap, thet lasts only fuw yeas. and braks when warenty is expierd. On A mercedes you get 30years Rust warenty, isent it nice?

[Tomisimo]

Right, i'll gona shut up, before i wear out my welcome. This is all about taste...

[backhatcher]

honda motors rule, you can rev as much as you like

[2ndGenGuy]

The base Chevrolet's are good cars too. The Cobalt isn't exactly as exciting or inspiring Civic in my book, but I think the new Ecotec's are damn good engines.

Look at the Solstice GXP (I think it's the new Opel Roadster over in Europe). For $20,000 you can get a brand new, turbocharged 270hp roadster. It eats up cars at the autocross track.

My point is, American manufacturer's are NOT making crap anymore. The 70's, 80's and early 90's were definitely NOT a good time, but I think that their poor sales has forced them to rethink what they are doing.

Corvette IS an elite class of Chevy. I will agree with you that taste-wise, I don't find their passenger cars particularly exciting, but I don't think that they're the same crap they used to be.

Quality is not a matter of taste, it's either crap or it isn't. I think that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have built a well-deserved reputation of crap. All I'm saying is take a look at their new stuff. It's not as bad as you think.

And in the spirit of friendly, open debate; Mercedes-Benz had has one of the lowest quality ratings of all car manufacturers, despite their 30-year rust warranty.

And Tomisimo, please don't take anything I'm saying personally. None of it is a slam against you... I welcome your debate, and like discussing things like this. You won't make me angry by stating your opinion. If you think American cars are crap, you're totally welcome to it. Especially since we've built a great reputation for crap cars. :D

[Tomisimo]

The base Chevrolet's are good cars too. The Cobalt isn't exactly as exciting or inspiring Civic in my book, but I think the new Ecotec's are damn good engines.

Look at the Solstice GXP (I think it's the new Opel Roadster over in Europe). For $20,000 you can get a brand new, turbocharged 270hp roadster. It eats up cars at the autocross track.

My point is, American manufacturer's are NOT making crap anymore. The 70's, 80's and early 90's were definitely NOT a good time, but I think that their poor sales has forced them to rethink what they are doing.

Corvette IS an elite class of Chevy. I will agree with you that taste-wise, I don't find their passenger cars particularly exciting, but I don't think that they're the same crap they used to be.

Quality is not a matter of taste, it's either crap or it isn't. I think that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have built a well-deserved reputation of crap. All I'm saying is take a look at their new stuff. It's not as bad as you think.

And in the spirit of friendly, open debate; Mercedes-Benz had has one of the lowest quality ratings of all car manufacturers, despite their 30-year rust warranty.

And Tomisimo, please don't take anything I'm saying personally. None of it is a slam against you... I welcome your debate, and like discussing things like this. You won't make me angry by stating your opinion. If you think American cars are crap, you're totally welcome to it. Especially since we've built a great reputation for crap cars. :D

Not all American cars are crap. Thee is some.
But I must say. Opel is owned by GM now or since stone age. dontknow. It has a bad reputation here in Europe, do to its pore handling and cheap plastic interiors...
You say Thet Mercedes is lowest qualety car in rating! Thets becouse of Chrisler owns Mercedes concept now. They say how pore qualety gona be, but Mercedes still do they work by inventing new technology.

I must agree thet this is endless debate...

[2ndGenGuy]

Not all American cars are crap. Thee is some.
But I must say. Opel is owned by GM now or since stone age. dontknow. It has a bad reputation here in Europe, do to its pore handling and cheap plastic interiors...
You say Thet Mercedes is lowest qualety car in rating! Thets becouse of Chrisler owns Mercedes concept now. They say how pore qualety gona be, but Mercedes still do they work by inventing new technology.

I must agree thet this is endless debate...

Yeah it's endless. All the car companies are intertwined now. Everybody owns stake in everybody else. It's just a freakin' mess.

[Hans]

What I take from this thread:
Buy what you want. If you can't afford to fix it then that's your problem. I'd love a car with a warranty lol... but I'll never get rid of the 3gee :)

[dlr1989]

I know that my experience is not necessarily the same as many others, but I own two vehicles.
1. A 1989 Honda Accord LXI 4 door sedan that I bought new in July of 1989
2. A 2001 Dodge Ram 1500 4wd quad cab short box with just about every option that was available including a 360 V8. This one was also purchased new in March 2001.

The Honda actually had more things fixed under warranty than the Dodge did! And in the post warranty to 55,000 mile mark (approximate mileage on the Dodge today) I have only changed a track bar on the Dodge. My only real complaint about the Dodge is feeding it gas, on a good day 14mpg on the highway compared to 30mpg on the Honda. Both vehicles have been extremely reliable and I would rate neither one as crap or junk.

On the other hand, and to try to make this post somewhat on topic, I would be much more reluctant to rev the Dodge 360 (an ancient dinosaur of an engine design) than the more refined Honda 2.0. I'm not sure why one really needs to sit and rev an engine in or out of gear.

[Tomisimo]

I'm not sure why one really needs to sit and rev an engine in or out of gear.
Me to... its kinda RICE to do so. Show Off.

[2oodoor]

The base Chevrolet's are good cars too. The Cobalt isn't exactly as exciting or inspiring Civic in my book, but I think the new Ecotec's are damn good engines.

Look at the Solstice GXP (I think it's the new Opel Roadster over in Europe). For $20,000 you can get a brand new, turbocharged 270hp roadster. It eats up cars at the autocross track.

My point is, American manufacturer's are NOT making crap anymore. The 70's, 80's and early 90's were definitely NOT a good time, but I think that their poor sales has forced them to rethink what they are doing.

Corvette IS an elite class of Chevy. I will agree with you that taste-wise, I don't find their passenger cars particularly exciting, but I don't think that they're the same crap they used to be.

Quality is not a matter of taste, it's either crap or it isn't. I think that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have built a well-deserved reputation of crap. All I'm saying is take a look at their new stuff. It's not as bad as you think.

And in the spirit of friendly, open debate; Mercedes-Benz had has one of the lowest quality ratings of all car manufacturers, despite their 30-year rust warranty.

And Tomisimo, please don't take anything I'm saying personally. None of it is a slam against you... I welcome your debate, and like discussing things like this. You won't make me angry by stating your opinion. If you think American cars are crap, you're totally welcome to it. Especially since we've built a great reputation for crap cars. :D

Well stated 2ndGenGuy

I still maintain that free reving, any engine is not good for it in the long run. Sure it won't hurt some engines as much as others, even the same type of engine ...you never know the complete history of that engine unless you bought it new. Reving Honda's in neutral may not cause any immediate damage, and is a common practice, BUT understand that some small fraction of the life span of that engine is being cut short, may be very tiny but still exists. The chances of reducing the life span of a pushrod motor is way greater, by revving it excessivley in neutral.

AND I still maintain that , just one example, the Ford 4.6 liter engine OHC V8 is one hell of a good engine, better I say than even German engines because of it's equal durability with the plus of economical maintainence. They replaced Benz Policia cars all over the world, Moscow for example, with Crown Victorias. These cars get 9 to 28 MPG, that I can prove. I have never seen one develop oil leaks other than oil coolers sometimes. They take any abuse you can give them, withstanding reason. They get 100K miles on them and still bring a good price at saless because taxi companies buy them, do nothing to the engine and get another 150K+ miles.
Not to leave anybody out, Chevy's aluminum small blocks made this millenium, such as the Corvette, AND Truck engines 4.7, 5.3,6.0 liters are just as impressive. These are some very well balanced and economical engines, with gobs of power... really governed by OEM controls, you can reprogram the ECM on those and unleash up to 100 more horsepower depending on which
one. These engines too are getting 200K-300K miles without any major problems.

[Blkblurr]

They say it will cost them an :gun: 500$ extra.
This is the reason why Am-Motors are lazy. Kopitalism
What the hell is this about?

[2oodoor]

What the hell is this about?
taken out of context, it does not look like a nice thing.... but in T's defense I think he partially cleared it up with proceeding comments. Capitolism as he means to say, is only one factor of what was being discussed.
I forget the name of the book, famous a few years ago..maybe somebody will chime in with the name.. but a theory of an industrial conspiracy worldwide called Planned Obselesence was explained. According to the theory this has been going on quite some time.

[Blkblurr]

Oops, I didn't see the 2nd page of comments for some reason. I agree that U.S. automakers are doing much better than in the prevoius decades but need to do more. I also know that the german cars need lots of improving as well when it comes to quality. The Japanese as well as the US (some models) have gotten much better ratings than the german cars recently. Honda always has. I am in the business (sort of) and make many trips to the german car plants. I see it first hand. As far as V8 engines vs smaller ones with more power, it's really about the market. US buyers normally want V8's as oppsed to smaller engines. This is changing though.

[Tomisimo]

What the hell is this about?

Thx ROODOO2.
Whut I was sayng is. If you bye a Mustang GT500 today, you'll get same suspention as you get in basic model. Becouse of Fod says, thet it will cost them another 500$ to upgrade to beter bracks, shocks, spings.
I mean, its stupid to supecharge engine and not upgrade suspention...
Copitolism...

PS: Roodoo2, i know about thet book you tolking about, only i dont read it, I seing a Documentary based on thet book.

[Blkblurr]

Yeah I see what your saying. Ford does what the market demands. People here in the US may just want the basic car or they may buy up if the options are available so US car companies offer upgrades in increments. by the way, there are different suspension options available for the mustang.

[Kelvin]

Query: Is reving the engine while not in gear by jabbing the gas pedal bad?
My pop says he was taught back in the old days that that was bad for the engine and that reving the engine to high RPM while not in gear is generally bad too. However, he doesn't know why. An old wife's tale, or is there some truth behind this?

It's really quite simple. More revs= more movement= more friction= more wear. More wear on your piston rings, more wear on your crankshaft, more wear on your valves, everything. Will it destroy your engine? Probably not. Will it eventually cause a loss in power? Probably. It increases the speed at which everything in your engine wears out. It also wastes gas.

All in all, it's pretty stupid. Don't do it.

[Kelvin]

thoes problems are only in american V8s....

That's just an ignorant statement.

[MessyHonda]

That's just an ignorant statement.



all i know is just not to buy a mustang....my friend has spent more money fixing it than driving it.....he only got it like 6 months ago and his tranny went, break lines failed. and his tires were gone but that is beside the point. its only a 03 mustang gt. sounds good...but no way i would DD one.

[Blkblurr]

That's just an ignorant statement.
No it is mostly correct but I would add older V8 engines. They did not do well at high rpms for extended runs normally in stock form. I constantly burned up my points if I got into a race with my mustang.

[2oodoor]

Ok I must come to the mustang defense to make excuses. lol
Tomisimo- I don't know where you got the information about he GT500 package, guessing by the words you used, something like "ford would have to pay 500 dollars more to upgrade the suspension" Sounds like a quote from a magazine writer who could have been biased or trying to find some point to make his article more sensational. American car makers have to put these package together to make a line program so they may produce a certain style car they feel people will buy. They have limitations, to get approval for the set up. The days of special ordering a certian combination are in the past, you have to use an upfitting vendor to accomplish that now (example is GT500, with Bullitt SE wheels and Cobra suspension with ragtop, add cassette player) you just cannot buy that one direct, an upfitter has to put it together for you. It is a fierce competitive market and Ford is busting ass trying to stay alive, and they are managing thanks to the trucks and the mustangs, but they have to keep inside a market of 20K to 30K to be competitive against imports, Dodge Chargers, and GM's threat to produce the 69 Camaro reborn ( another story all together)
#2 Ok now on the mustang eating up ign breaker points, I think it was bendix or prestolite, who made the distributors for Ford and they ALL were bad about geting some wobble wear in the plate, there were certain brands of points that would last much longer, I think one was called bluestreak or something, and yea you can't complain much everybody had the similar problom, VW bug, and Hell my 1G accord did the same thing.
#3 MH, I agree you need to beware buying a used Mustang, they are mass produced and many have abused childhoods, lol. I>E Rental fleets, first time teenager buyers, everybody wants to try and race them, etc... and from what you say with the tires on your friends car, that one may have taken a beating. Ford did have problems with transmissions on a lot of models, no doubt about it.
#4 all you Ford haters, I am not preaching Fords... I have a love hate relationship with them myself.

[Blkblurr]

I've owned two mustangs and would buy a new one if it was in my car need plan but I have an S2000 and that's all the performance I need. The company I work for built a lot of the assembly systems for the new Mustang including the rear axle systems. Most of the cars in the late 60 and early 70 had V8's and did have the ignition point problem and this is one item that caused people to think that V8's shouldn't be revved much.

[Kelvin]

all i know is just not to buy a mustang....my friend has spent more money fixing it than driving it.....he only got it like 6 months ago and his tranny went, break lines failed. and his tires were gone but that is beside the point. its only a 03 mustang gt. sounds good...but no way i would DD one.

His tranny went probably because people were abusing it. Tires wear out. Brake lines? I don't really believe that.

Besides, if you want to talk about cars that spend more time in the shop than driving, let's talk about DSMs. :)

[Kelvin]

Thx ROODOO2.
Whut I was sayng is. If you bye a Mustang GT500 today, you'll get same suspention as you get in basic model. Becouse of Fod says, thet it will cost them another 500$ to upgrade to beter bracks, shocks, spings.
I mean, its stupid to supecharge engine and not upgrade suspention...
Copitolism...

PS: Roodoo2, i know about thet book you tolking about, only i dont read it, I seing a Documentary based on thet book.

That's nothing new. The 64 mustang had the same suspension as the Ford Falcon, and if you ever read about the creation of the movie "Bullit" you'll find the mustang was literally falling apart while filming, but the dodge charger's suspension was so heavy duty that it held up fine.

[Kelvin]

Okay, I'm going to say it one more time. Corvette!

This car proves that American V8's are not bad. Saying they are inefficient and unreliable is ridiculous. They days of the late 70's and and 80's V8's are gone.

The Corvette C6 Z06 puts out 500hp and STILL gets 28mpg. There isn't a puny, high-revving European V8 that can even begin to touch that. There are no reliability issues with American V8's that I've ever heard of. Tolerances are tighter now, they're not the same 350's from 1965. The elitist Euro-car mentality needs to stop. It's closed-minded and completely wrong.

Agreed.

[86AccordLxi]

Thx ROODOO2.
Whut I was sayng is. If you bye a Mustang GT500 today, you'll get same suspention as you get in basic model. Becouse of Fod says, thet it will cost them another 500$ to upgrade to beter bracks, shocks, spings.
I mean, its stupid to supecharge engine and not upgrade suspention...
Copitolism...

PS: Roodoo2, i know about thet book you tolking about, only i dont read it, I seing a Documentary based on thet book.

I think you missed a 0. The number I heard getting tossed around was $5,000, not $500. Even ford doesn't have its head that far up it's ass to stick with live axles instead of a $500 to IRS.

Alex

[Kelvin]

Yeha, i'm pretty sure the suspension isn't the same in the GT500 as in the base v6 model. It's the same STYLE of suspension, they both have live rear axles, but some people PREFER live axles. I think they're fun, and unless I plan on aggressively competing, I don't really think the cost increase for an independant rear suspension would be worth it.

[MessyHonda]

#3 MH, I agree you need to beware buying a used Mustang, they are mass produced and many have abused childhoods, lol. I>E Rental fleets, first time teenager buyers, everybody wants to try and race them, etc... and from what you say with the tires on your friends car, that one may have taken a beating. Ford did have problems with transmissions on a lot of models, no doubt about it.



roodoo you are right. the car was from a teenager and he could not afford to pay it off so the bank took it and thats how my friend got it...way under price

50k miles
it came with Koni adjustable suspension
roll cage,
nice set of 17 inch thrust 5 spoke rims
K&N intake with like carbon fiber
the tranny was moded....it has a shorter 2nd gear and that was what failed.
a roush shifter that looks kick ass
and it looks good....with 5% tint.

just his transmission cost more than my mods in my car..

[Blkblurr]

Yeha, i'm pretty sure the suspension isn't the same in the GT500 as in the base v6 model. It's the same STYLE of suspension, they both have live rear axles, but some people PREFER live axles. I think they're fun, and unless I plan on aggressively competing, I don't really think the cost increase for an independant rear suspension would be worth it.
Depends on how you are going to drive the car. Independant suspension will handle better than a rigid axle. If you are going to spend the $5000 more, you need to have use for it or you just have too much money.

[MessyHonda]

His tranny went probably because people were abusing it. Tires wear out. Brake lines? I don't really believe that.
Besides, if you want to talk about cars that spend more time in the shop than driving, let's talk about DSMs. :)


yeah....they switched out 2nd gear so it was shorter...and it would grid going in. break lines failed......he had to slow down with his Ebrake.....and midas charged him 500 bucks for new lines, rotors and pads.

[Hans]

This is now a pointless thread.

[Tomisimo]

I've owned two mustangs and would buy a new one if it was in my car need plan but I have an S2000 and that's all the performance I need. The company I work for built a lot of the assembly systems for the new Mustang including the rear axle systems. Most of the cars in the late 60 and early 70 had V8's and did have the ignition point problem and this is one item that caused people to think that V8's shouldn't be revved much.
Lats satle this debate... Ford Mustang GT500 @ TopGear Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGd1UBUDvZY)
They did mantoned rear Axle in thet film.

edit:PS: gues i was wrong about thet $500. It is $5000,-

[B18Civic]

I don’t know why people just rev their motors for non-diagnostic purposes anyway. In my opinion, its rather annoying when you have some kids at a car meet rev the hell out of their motor. Then it becomes more of a contest, who’s motor can rev the highest and fastest. Sorry ill get off my soapbox.
Anyway. Does revving you motor cause damage to it? yes and maybe. Just running your motor damages it. Oil just doesn’t turn black cause of heat from the motor. There are little pieces of metal in there as well. To what degree does reving an unloaded motor do to it, it’s hard to say. Revving it probally doesn't hurt it that much but im sure it does cause some wear and tear.

[MessyHonda]

I don’t know why people just rev their motors for non-diagnostic purposes anyway. In my opinion, its rather annoying when you have some kids at a car meet rev the hell out of their motor. Then it becomes more of a contest, who’s motor can rev the highest and fastest. Sorry ill get off my soapbox.
Anyway. Does revving you motor cause damage to it? yes and maybe. Just running your motor damages it. Oil just doesn’t turn black cause of heat from the motor. There are little pieces of metal in there as well. To what degree does reving an unloaded motor do to it, it’s hard to say. Revving it probally doesn't hurt it that much but im sure it does cause some wear and tear.



lol...soo true.....its like who has the biggest and baddest.

[Kelvin]

Lats satle this debate... Ford Mustang GT500 @ TopGear Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGd1UBUDvZY)
They did mantoned rear Axle in thet film.
edit:PS: gues i was wrong about thet $500. It is $5000,-

Yeah, let's bring that up. Top gear puts a car on a DYNO, and expects to receive the 'advertised horsepower' at the freaking wheels. WTF. They were seriously smoking crack if they expected the mustang to have 'a zero friction' drivetrain. All cars lose 15-20% of their power through the transmissions, AWD cars even more so. If you put a Veyron on an AWD dyno you'd probably be lucky to break 800hp.

There is a HUGE difference between crank horsepower, and wheel horsepower. I can't believe Top Gear edited their show like they expected it to be the same. It really made me lose a huge amount of respect for that show, actually.

[Hans]

I can't believe Top Gear edited their show like they expected it to be the same. It really made me lose a huge amount of respect for that show, actually.
That's a pretty sad statement. Top Gear was merely exposing the fact that a lot of companies advertise thier hp numbers, but never really tell the public that the numbers were meaured at the crank. Top Gear is a great show and I will love it no matter.

[mike10562004]

Clears the plugs.
Far as the rest of this. Reving the engine out of gear isnt any diffrent than reving it in gear so long as you dont over rev it.
Reving it and droping it in gear on an automatic is bad.


a little too late on the last part i ripped my auto tranny out doing that :Owned: :uh:

[Kelvin]

That's a pretty sad statement. Top Gear was merely exposing the fact that a lot of companies advertise thier hp numbers, but never really tell the public that the numbers were meaured at the crank. Top Gear is a great show and I will love it no matter.

Fine. Name me ONE car company, anywhere, that advertises WHEEL horsepower. You won't find one, because ALL of them measure it at the crank. Hence why top gear's episode was sad, and really hurt any shred of credibility it had.

[MessyHonda]

yeah car companies want it too look like they have lots of HP.

[2oodoor]

I don’t know why people just rev their motors for non-diagnostic purposes anyway. In my opinion, its rather annoying when you have some kids at a car meet rev the hell out of their motor. Then it becomes more of a contest, who’s motor can rev the highest and fastest. Sorry ill get off my soapbox.
Anyway. Does revving you motor cause damage to it? yes and maybe. Just running your motor damages it. Oil just doesn’t turn black cause of heat from the motor. There are little pieces of metal in there as well. To what degree does reving an unloaded motor do to it, it’s hard to say. Revving it probally doesn't hurt it that much but im sure it does cause some wear and tear.

agreed
it is like "let me make sure my rev limiter is still working" rev limiter check like ten times a day..lol
why don't we say, lets make sure the smoke alarm is working every hour on the hour, or lets make sure my dog really wont bite the kid if we antagonize it some more, or lets make sure the the exlax is still good that we had in the cabinet since 1999 or Hell lets test the circuit breakers in the house to see if they will trip.. give me a pair of scissors...:gun:
I love starbucks...:)

[lostforawhile]

on a car it's acceptable to rev the motor a little to clear the carb. i don't mean rev the shit out of it,i mean if it's been sitting for a few days. there is no need on a fuel injected car. carbs have a tendency to develop varnish and gunk on the parts fuel flows through. you need to get plenty of airflow going through the engine,then the fresh fuel passing those parts will help clean them.

[Civic Accord Honda]

i rev my car and it runs fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M2a5N-e8o0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsMJEP931o4

[lostforawhile]

i rev my car and it runs fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M2a5N-e8o0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsMJEP931o4you mean except for the knocking,smoking and other stuff you were talking about. there is no reason to rev a fuel injected car. people who see that video will think you are a ricer for sure. the original reason for reving a car was to clear the carb, kids with fuel injected cars picked it up,and it's stupid now. you don't have a 21 year old carb to worry about.

[Civic Accord Honda]

no but my car is badass :-D it pulls long burnouts but cant get anyone to record me doing them becuz if my mom found out she would hit me upside the head :slap:

[lostforawhile]

no but my car is badass :-D it pulls long burnouts but cant get anyone to record me doing them becuz if my mom found out she would hit me upside the head :slap:
I thought she did that anyway. i wish i had a video camera,you would piss your pants. lol. doing burn outs on bald ass tires doesn't count.

[Civic Accord Honda]

I thought she did that anyway. i wish i had a video camera,you would piss your pants. lol. doing burn outs on bald ass tires doesn't count.
only one tire is bald and it dose them on the donut tire too :-D

[lostforawhile]

only one tire is bald and it dose them on the donut tire too :-Dno comment ROFL

[Ichiban]

Can someone link me to this topgear episode? I've watched it and agree that it, like anything else on tv, is tv.

[B18Civic]

i rev my car and it runs fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M2a5N-e8o0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsMJEP931o4

yeah, it runs fine, for now. motors dont always give you a "warning" when they are going to blow. unless you have that badass program they made for eclipses that tell you when your intake manifold bolts are failing. anyway, you might do that 500 time and nothing will happen. Then one day you are driving normal down the street and you loose a valve. I guess what im trying to say is that you wont know when your motor will go. just because it runs fine today does not mean it will tomarrow. and besides why add insult to injury.

[Kelvin]

It runs fine, of course it does. But it's also causing more wear on every moving part inside your engine. And it's needless. And pointless. And eventually you'll lose power because of it.

[lostforawhile]

yeah, it runs fine, for now. motors dont always give you a "warning" when they are going to blow. unless you have that badass program they made for eclipses that tell you when your intake manifold bolts are failing. anyway, you might do that 500 time and nothing will happen. Then one day you are driving normal down the street and you loose a valve. I guess what im trying to say is that you wont know when your motor will go. just because it runs fine today does not mean it will tomarrow. and besides why add insult to injury.
aren't those the videos where he was reving the motor,then discovered later there was harly any oil in the motor? :Owned:

[2oodoor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSXhCN3kdUQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPQIizRp9ck

AH wii want to p l a y
:devil: a lil off topic but what the hell

[lostforawhile]

i just saw this thread, one word, pushrods, thats why the stories about reving the engines. there's a lot of clearance between the valves and the cam, thats one of the first things i'll do on the lincoln, higher quality pushrods and better rockers to replace the cheap factory crap, also hydraulic lifters can get unhappy with reving

[A18A]

:uh:

[SZfiftyfour]

^lol
Btw Lost, How did you just see this thread? You've got five other posts in here!

[lostforawhile]

^lol
Btw Lost, How did you just see this thread? You've got five other posts in here!

it doesn't come up on subscriptions i probably have 100000 other posts too