THe Evolution of torque.

[DDRaptor]

Here Ye, Here Ye we are some of the select few owners who own one of hondas only line of vehicles where torque has NEVER drop below horsepower congradulate yourselves.

This is very the accord owns all other hondas except preludes, intgera type r, and civics si, and type r.


1980 Honda Accord 4 Dr. Sedan
Curb Weight 2255 lbs
Engine Size 1.8L
Horsepower 72 hp @ 4500 rpm
Torque 94 ft-lbs @ 3000 rpm

1984 Honda Accord 4 Dr. Sedan
Curb Weight 2302 lbs
Engine Size 1.8L
Horsepower 86 hp @ 5800 rpm
Torque 99 ft-lbs @ 3500 rpm

1989 Honda Accord LX 4 Dr. Sedan
Curb Weight 2500 lbs
Engine Size 2.0L
Horsepower 98 hp @ 5500 rpm
Torque 109 ft-lbs @ 3500 rpm

(F.I.)
Horsepower 120 hp @ 5800 rpm
Torque 122 ft-lbs @ 4000 rpm

1993 Honda Accord LX
Curb Weight 2866 lbs
Engine Size 2.2L
Horsepower 125 hp @ 5200 rpm
Torque 137 ft-lbs @ 4000 rpm

1997 Honda Accord LX
Curb Weight 2899 lbs
Engine Size 2.2L
Horsepower 130 hp @ 5300 rpm
Torque 139 ft-lbs @ 4200 rpm

2002 HOnda accord LX
Curb Weight 3031 lbs
Engine Size 2.3L
Horsepower 150 hp @ 5700 rpm
Torque 152 ft-lbs @ 4900 rpm

2007 Honda Accord LX
Curb Weight 3197 lbs
Engine Size 2.4L
Horsepower 166 hp @ 5800 rpm
Torque 160 ft-lbs @ 4000 rpm

[2ndGenGuy]

Here here! (or is it hear hear?) Accord owners own!

[1ajs]

:)

woot 89 lx made that list CARB FTW!

[Hans]

1986 Honda Accord Hatchback LX-i
Curb Weight: 2400lbs
Engine Size: 2.0L
Horsepower: 110hp @ 5500rpm
Torque: 114lbft @ 4500rpm

[DDRaptor]

well yeah i have an 88 lx cant leave my carb out.
i thought all the years within a gen are the same.

sorry i left out hatchs but i had to keep it uniform cause hatches arent made anymore.

[Hans]

haha I understand. naw the '86 and '87 LX-i are a lil less powerful than the '88 and '89

[che3wy]

is the only different in power for the lx and the lx-i the fact that its fi? so if someone were to do a carb to efi swap would they be gaining power?

[Hans]

is the only different in power for the lx and the lx-i the fact that its fi? so if someone were to do a carb to efi swap would they be gaining power?
I believe so. I don't really think that there's any more difference in our cars than everything that is invloved with the fuel injection/carb parts. The internals should be the same.

[MessyHonda]

is the only different in power for the lx and the lx-i the fact that its fi? so if someone were to do a carb to efi swap would they be gaining power?



well no......the a20a3 has more compression...and the cam is a lil bit more agresive.

I believe so. I don't really think that there's any more difference in our cars than everything that is invloved with the fuel injection/carb parts. The internals should be the same.



better read up on it buddy....but the a20a3 has a 9.3 compression and the a20a1 has 9.1. the fuel injected cars have shorter gears so they feel faster.

[DDRaptor]

yeah carb to fi. is very popular moification. you defintly gain some power but messy is right the c/r is a bit higher so you wont get the 120hp like a standard lx-i.

[A18A]

2007 Honda Accord LX
Curb Weight 3197 lbs
Engine Size 2.4L
Horsepower 166 hp @ 5800 rpm
Torque 160 ft-lbs @ 4000 rpmthat one looks to have more hp than tq :P

[DDRaptor]

pfft i think i should of used the 06,

[Hans]

well no......the a20a3 has more compression...and the cam is a lil bit more agresive.
better read up on it buddy....but the a20a3 has a 9.3 compression and the a20a1 has 9.1. the fuel injected cars have shorter gears so they feel faster.
Yeah I forgot about that and def should have read up on it more. Is the higher c/r cause of the more aggressive cam? And I'm thinkin the '88-'89 A20A3 with a tranny from a carbed accord would be a pretty good match up (if you only used accord parts). Would it be possible to get to 60mph without shifting to 3rd?

[DDRaptor]

i get to 60 without going to 3rd on my auto.

[MessyHonda]

Yeah I forgot about that and def should have read up on it more. Is the higher c/r cause of the more aggressive cam? And I'm thinkin the '88-'89 A20A3 with a tranny from a carbed accord would be a pretty good match up (if you only used accord parts). Would it be possible to get to 60mph without shifting to 3rd?



the pistons have the more compression of the 9.3 and the cam opens up the valves a bit longer for more fuel and air to go into the engine. making more power. also the 88-89 accords have dual stage intake....so it pulls hard to redline and a better flowing exhaust.

[Hans]

i get to 60 without going to 3rd on my auto.
I'm talkin bout 5 speed.


the pistons have the more compression of the 9.3 and the cam opens up the valves a bit longer for more fuel and air to go into the engine. making more power. also the 88-89 accords have dual stage intake....so it pulls hard to redline and a better flowing exhaust.
dual stage? I didn't think that any 3gee had that. Shows ya how much I know. lol

[MessyHonda]

I'm talkin bout 5 speed.
dual stage? I didn't think that any 3gee had that. Shows ya how much I know. lol



yup it did....so that means to get more air flow to the engine it has an extra set of plates that open up. so it gets more air into the engine. so after like 4k RPM they open up.

[Hans]

yup it did....so that means to get more air flow to the engine it has an extra set of plates that open up. so it gets more air into the engine. so after like 4k RPM they open up.
hhhmmmm... this sounds like the experimental stage of vtec :) It all started with the 3gee... all other cars must bow in repect lol

[A18A]

yup it did....so that means to get more air flow to the engine it has an extra set of plates that open up. so it gets more air into the engine. so after like 4k RPM they open up.
i would have thought without them, there would be more flow, since the butterflies arnt there to restrict it :)

[MessyHonda]

i would have thought without them, there would be more flow, since the butterflies arnt there to restrict it :)



well that why you dont kill your low end torque.....its like puting a big air pipe at low RPMS.....the car would not like it cuz it would not create lots of vacumm. and i like my low end torque. the dual stage is more for top end....and yeah....it does feel good.....but i never been in a car with vtec so i could not compare

[Hans]

well that why you dont kill your low end torque.....its like puting a big air pipe at low RPMS.....the car would not like it cuz it would not create lots of vacumm. and i like my low end torque. the dual stage is more for top end....and yeah....it does feel good.....but i never been in a car with vtec so i could not compare
If I put on a custom intake with a filter on the end and piping that is the same diameter as the throttle body, then would that allow me to keep the low end torque by keeping the vacuum? :naughty: In theory though, I guess that would lower the top end performance of a larger aftermarket intake.

[diegoaccord]

The only reason these cars have more torque than horespower, is simply they are underpowered in the first place.

A Geo Metro XFi also makes more torque than power. Haha. In other words, it's not saying much.

Lastly, it also means, these are the kind of cars that run out of steam well before redline.

[Hans]

The only reason these cars have more torque than horespower, is simply they are underpowered in the first place.
A Geo Metro XFi also makes more torque than power. Haha. In other words, it's not saying much.
Lastly, it also means, these are the kind of cars that run out of steam well before redline.
Go play with your integra...
Workin with what we got here, not punkin out and gettin another car.

[cubert]

The only reason these cars have more torque than horespower, is simply they are underpowered in the first place.
A Geo Metro XFi also makes more torque than power. Haha. In other words, it's not saying much.
Lastly, it also means, these are the kind of cars that run out of steam well before redline.


hahahahahha :Owned:

[A18A]

well that why you dont kill your low end torque.....its like puting a big air pipe at low RPMS.....the car would not like it cuz it would not create lots of vacumm. and i like my low end torque. the dual stage is more for top end....and yeah....it does feel good.....but i never been in a car with vtec so i could not compare
wow i didnt know that :)

[89l_x_i]

Go play with your integra...
Workin with what we got here, not punkin out and gettin another car.

Looks like its gonna be a very loooooong day at work lmao.

[DDRaptor]

do you consider 120hp 125tq. underpowered for a late 80s vehicle design.

[cubert]

do you consider 120hp 125tq. underpowered for a late 80s vehicle design.

it depends...

the dodge daytona shelby z made over 170hp and i think close to 200 ft/lbs of tq.

[DDRaptor]

im assuming that is a 6 cylinder. if not im impressed.

[ZackieDarko]

WHEN THIS CAR CAME OUT

it was reasonably powerful for an Asian import

what else was out, in the way of jap cars

1.5L carbed CRX's and Civic's? were toyotas any faster? i had an 88 camry all trac and god damn that thing was slow a 3g would smoke that POS

when you start comparing the 3g, a car close to 21 22 years old for the 86's, to modern cars yes its going to fall short...very short...when you compare it to what was out when it came out it doesn't look so bad

so all you kiddies with your K's and H's and B's and even you D's can kiss my ass if you are going to rag on the almighty A because it can't live upto NEWER technology

['A20A3']

I said it once i"ll say it again


VTEC IS OVERRATED

[cubert]

I said it once i"ll say it again
VTEC IS OVERRATED



:rly:


raptor...the shelby was a 4 banger..a 2.5 liter if im not mistaken. It was boosted though...but still for the late 80's its pretty damn good

and zackie..im not ragging on the A...its a great motor for what it is...and it is tough as nails. I know most of us who poke fun are doing it in good nature.

[DDRaptor]

well my aim is too use my accord to keep up with new ones when i'm done with it.

would be kinda surreal right.

[MessyHonda]

well my aim is too use my accord to keep up with new ones when i'm done with it.
would be kinda surreal right.



yeah that is somewhat my plan....to keep up with stock civics....no K serries ones or even b but just stick with the D...and new cars.

[Hans]

I'll be much more than content with my BT. I figure by the time that I'm done modding (that will never happen) I'll have a lightning car that has a nice old school look with a modern edge to it. It's like having a kid, I love it regardless of everything else out there. :)

[diegoaccord]

WHEN THIS CAR CAME OUT

it was reasonably powerful for an Asian import

what else was out, in the way of jap cars

1.5L carbed CRX's and Civic's? were toyotas any faster? i had an 88 camry all trac and god damn that thing was slow a 3g would smoke that POS

when you start comparing the 3g, a car close to 21 22 years old for the 86's, to modern cars yes its going to fall short...very short...when you compare it to what was out when it came out it doesn't look so bad

so all you kiddies with your K's and H's and B's and even you D's can kiss my ass if you are going to rag on the almighty A because it can't live upto NEWER technology

I assume you mean me? Well guess what, I'm talking about ALL those Accord 4 bangers listed. They are ALL big for the power they produce, and are ALL unpowered for the size of car they have to lug around. And even with thier size, and weak power output for that size, every Accord 4 banger is all UNDERSIZED for the car they lug around by about .2 liters.

I could have ranted like an ass, such yourself. So busy worrying about the 3G, you can't even see the whole statement. Those F22 VTEC's? Still underwhelming for the car it lugs. K24 i-VTEC, its up there at the forefront of Hondas technology, it's still too small for a 7G, and still underpowered for 2.4 liters.

God damn. Some a' you are too sensitive, reminds me of D series people, or some little dicked guy that has something to prove.


Go play with your integra...
Workin with what we got here, not punkin out and gettin another car.

Oh, I had some nice shit ready for you, and believe me I REALLY want to use it.

But yeah, whatever, keep running those 17.8's@82 MPH.


well my aim is too use my accord to keep up with new ones when i'm done with it.
would be kinda surreal right.

Thats the point. Increase in size, and HP of the Accord has historically ONLY covered the cars growth. I'm sure a 2007 4 banger is exactly the same in speed as a 3G.

[F22B1VTEC]

I believe you forgot mine. ^^
1995 Honda Accord EX VTEC
2.2L L4
BHP= 135
Torque=137ft lbs.
At least I think thats right.


I assume you mean me? Well guess what, I'm talking about ALL those Accord 4 bangers listed. They are ALL big for the power they produce, and are ALL unpowered for the size of car they have to lug around. And even with thier size, and weak power output for that size, every Accord 4 banger is all UNDERSIZED for the car they lug around by about .2 liters.
I could have ranted like an ass, such yourself. So busy worrying about the 3G, you can't even see the whole statement. Those F22 VTEC's? Still underwhelming for the car it lugs. K24 i-VTEC, its up there at the forefront of Hondas technology, it's still too small for a 7G, and still underpowered for 2.4 liters.
God damn. Some a' you are too sensitive, reminds me of D series people, or some little dicked guy that has something to prove.
Oh, I had some nice shit ready for you, and believe me I REALLY want to use it.
But yeah, whatever, keep running those 17.8's@82 MPH.
Thats the point. Increase in size, and HP of the Accord has historically ONLY covered the cars growth. I'm sure a 2007 4 banger is exactly the same in speed as a 3G.
Sorry for double post, but...
Whats your deal with ragging on 4 cylinder's?
I know for shit sure, that my Accord aint gonna run the same speeds as old 80's 3G's. And you do realize that your almighty Teg has a 4 cylinder, right? And its a B18, it aint exactly the toughest shit engine around.
I'll bet you my Stock Accord with its F22 would take your Stock Teg with its B18, assuming that they were both stock, from the line, and for miles up the road.
The only reason your car has balls at all is because its an H22 swap. And guess what, thats a four cylinder too! ;)

[Hans]

DiegoAccord you really have some problem. Of course cars back in the 80's were for the most part underpowered, but they were still making as much power as they could for the technology that they had. And you're calling 2500lbs heavy? I know that CRX's and cars like that are like 2200lbs or a lil lighter, but they were not your average car. The average car now days weighs like 2800-3000lbs. So yes the 3gee was oversized for the power it made, but it wasn't a heavy car.
The K24 that's in the new accords makes 166hp 160lbft for a 3100lbs vehicle; I think it's doing alright. Infact the weakest K24 out there makes 160hp 162lbft. The best accord K24 makes 189hp 164.5lbft.
Actually the '86 LXi runs 17.3 and the 2003 sedan runs 16.0 so... no they are not the same speed.
Oh and you can go ahead and say what you "REALLY" wanted to!

[Hans]

Sorry for double post, but...
And you do realize that your almighty Teg has a 4 cylinder, right? And its a B18, it aint exactly the toughest shit engine around.
The only reason your car has balls at all is because its an H22 swap. And guess what, thats a four cylinder too! ;)
Exactly! :) Thank you.

[diegoaccord]

Sorry for double post, but...
Whats your deal with ragging on 4 cylinder's?

You mean, because I questioned your VTEC that one time? You know SOHC VTEC only works the intake valves? If you wanna get in a deabte about how bad your VTEC is, thats another place.



I know for shit sure, that my Accord aint gonna run the same speeds as old 80's 3G's. And you do realize that your almighty Teg has a 4 cylinder, right? And its a B18

MY particular Teg doesnt have a B18. "I know for shit sure."? Nice. I'm gonna use that one day.



I'll bet you my Stock Accord with its F22 would take your Stock Teg with its B18, assuming that they were both stock, from the line, and for miles up the road.

Uhm, you know my Integra is a GSR, so if it still had it's B18, it'd kill you.

As for an LS Teg, not like I care, its too slow for my radar anyway, like you.



The only reason your car has balls at all is because its an H22 swap. And guess what, thats a four cylinder too! ;)

I still could've had the B18C1, and it'd be well more than needed to destroy you.



DiegoAccord you really have some problem. Of course cars back in the 80's were for the most part underpowered, but they were still making as much power as they could for the technology that they had.

Again, u phail.

This is talking about all generations of Accord USDM 4 bangers. Mid 80's-2007 it doesn't matter. All underpowered. An old B20A has no technology, and it has the power of the i-VTEC K24. So again, dipshit, this isn't about technology, or even the stupid damn 3G.



And you're calling 2500lbs heavy? I know that CRX's and cars like that are like 2200lbs or a lil lighter, but they were not your average car. The average car now days weighs like 2800-3000lbs. So yes the 3gee was oversized for the power it made, but it wasn't a heavy car.

I really want to insult your intelligence. Did I say it's HEAVY? I said the car was underpowered to move its weight. God Damn. A Geo is 1800 lbs, it is still underpowered to move its weight.



The K24 that's in the new accords makes 166hp 160lbft for a 3100lbs vehicle; I think it's doing alright. Infact the weakest K24 out there makes 160hp 162lbft. The best accord K24 makes 189hp 164.5lbft.

Think it's doing alright!? Yeah, with the V6.




Oh and you can go ahead and say what you "REALLY" wanted to!

Dont tempt me.

[Strugglebucket]

i like to think of a car with more tq than hp as having "lots of potential". lol.

either that or it's diesel.

[Steve_Si]

Yeah sorry but a B18C integra will probably beat a stock H22A accord, let alone some F22 powered one. And i'm not biased towards integras, in fact I own a factory H22A accord and just sold a factory F20B (200HP DOHC vtec, destroked but upgraded H22A) 6th gen sedan which itself would probably match a B18C teg.

But digeoaccord, you forget there are plenty of 4 cylinder accords out there with lots of power straight from the factory.

I don't know the torque figures, but here are the HP numbers

3rd gen 160hp B20A
4th gen 150hp B20B???
5th gen 190hp H22A
6th gen 200hp F20B then later on 220hp H22A
7th gen 220hp K20A

[diegoaccord]

Yeah sorry but a B18C integra will probably beat a stock H22A accord, let alone some F22 powered one. And i'm not biased towards integras, in fact I own a factory H22A accord and just sold a factory F20B (200HP DOHC vtec, destroked but upgraded H22A) 6th gen sedan which itself would probably match a B18C teg.
But digeoaccord, you forget there are plenty of 4 cylinder accords out there with lots of power straight from the factory.
I don't know the torque figures, but here are the HP numbers
3rd gen 160hp B20A
4th gen 150hp B20B???
5th gen 190hp H22A
6th gen 200hp F20B then later on 220hp H22A
7th gen 220hp K20A

I specifically said USDM.


This is talking about all generations of Accord USDM 4 bangers.

4th gen is F20A.

[Hans]

Again, u phail.
This is talking about all generations of Accord USDM 4 bangers. Mid 80's-2007 it doesn't matter. All underpowered. An old B20A has no technology, and it has the power of the i-VTEC K24. So again, dipshit, this isn't about technology, or even the stupid damn 3G..
No need to call me names man. None of the B20A's make the power of the current K24. This thread was talking about 3gees and you said all those cars listed so yes this is about 3gees, not to mention it's 3gee.com.


I really want to insult your intelligence. Did I say it's HEAVY? I said the car was underpowered to move its weight. God Damn. A Geo is 1800 lbs, it is still underpowered to move its weight.
okay my bad, but the way that you stated your argument it came off like you were saying that the 3gee is heavy.


Dont tempt me.
Go ahead. :nervous: :D

Yes the 3gee is underpowered for it's weight. Your point? The other accords might or might not be underpowered as well. As time goes by cars get a little bit heavier and they make more power, others make even more power; this happens with every car out there. BTW integras from our years were not impressive either.
I know that my car isn't fast when compared to newer cars, but there's that whole time issue, be it technology or not. Don't worry, all accords including our cars can be very fast, all we gotta to do is add more power and they'll be very quick.
So don't come on here with your newer car and swapped engine and rag on our cars. Somehow accords have made it to the top of Car and Drivers list for like 15 or more years in a row. Whether it's underpowered or not, it's a great car that is VERY reliable and well built.

[HostileJava]

Keep it civilized. Feel free to challenge posts and correct errors, do not attack the members behind the posts.

That goes for all of you! Diego may instigate, but the rest of you take the bait and dive right in.

[snoopyloopy]

Yeah sorry but a B18C integra will probably beat a stock H22A accord, let alone some F22 powered one. And i'm not biased towards integras, in fact I own a factory H22A accord and just sold a factory F20B (200HP DOHC vtec, destroked but upgraded H22A) 6th gen sedan which itself would probably match a B18C teg.
But digeoaccord, you forget there are plenty of 4 cylinder accords out there with lots of power straight from the factory.
I don't know the torque figures, but here are the HP numbers
3rd gen 160hp B20A
4th gen 150hp B20B???
5th gen 190hp H22A
6th gen 200hp F20B then later on 220hp H22A
7th gen 220hp K20A
4g has f20a. the b20b was the crv motor.

[cubert]

Keep it civilized. Feel free to challenge posts and correct errors, do not attack the members behind the posts.

That goes for all of you! Diego may instigate, but the rest of you take the bait and dive right in.


diego??



instigate???





noooooo....



:lol:

[frantik]

lol n00bs got trolled

[Hans]

What you mean lol :D

[frantik]

i mean you and f22 are new and probably don't know that diego likes to get people going :) read the white text on his sig ;)

[DDRaptor]

wow. lots of back an forth i see.
anywho.

if anyone actually knows the weights of the generations i would like to know
cause my LX sedan is 3480lbs according to my sticker. so that's kinda ish heavy.

[Steve_Si]

My 2.0Si is 1100kg according to the Honda Japan web site. That's 2420 pounds, are you sure the 3 on your sticker isn't actually a 2?

[DDRaptor]

hmm. i better check that again.

EDIT. I Checked it Shes real heavy

3485 GVW 1890F 1520R about right 61/39 weight split that i read somewhere.
defintly won't have any trouble containing 160whp and keeping them on the ground lol.

[DDRaptor]

"The third-generation Accord would be a tough act to follow. Consumer Guide in 1989 termed it "the class of the compact class...an outstanding all-around buy among family cars. Attractions include decent room for four, adequate cargo space, a comfortable driving position, superb outward vision, exemplary workmanship and good fuel economy...[W]e rate the LX sedan as the best Accord buy on a value-per-dollar basis. " -How Stuff Works.com



Kinda makes wanna shed a tear.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/honda-accord3.htm

[MessyHonda]

wow. lots of back an forth i see.
anywho.
if anyone actually knows the weights of the generations i would like to know
cause my LX sedan is 3480lbs according to my sticker. so that's kinda ish heavy.



that is heavy.....i think that is how much the car can do loaded. most of our cars are 2400-2800

[DDRaptor]

i don't mean to question but the green sticker has GVW of 3485 but if you subtract the load it's meant to hold 5 pas at about 850 total weight. so.

3485-850=2635lbs would that make more sense?

['A20A3']

Boost > VTEC

Hands down. Period.

[cubert]

Boost > VTEC
Hands down. Period.

yup...we get it...you dont like vtec.


But your statemnet is a bit broad....i can think of many applications where i would much rather have a quick, high revving, N/A v-tec application then a boosted motor

['A20A3']

yup...we get it...you dont like vtec.
But your statemnet is a bit broad....i can think of many applications where i would much rather have a quick, high revving, N/A v-tec application then a boosted motor

true but a NA motor can never make as much power as a boosted one.

it all depends on what size turbo you use, some spool faster than others.

the IVTEC on the Kseries is ridiculous though. I've never felt vtec pull like that, not even on a buddy of mines tuned H22. however my friends RSX S even with I/H/E runs half a second slower than a stock motor boosted A20.
it all comes down to preference i guess, and i prefer to go fast.

[MessyHonda]

you got to remember that these engines are getting old and just keeping up with the newer technology is a big plus...i bet everyone want a turbo 3 gee but we are broke so i only work with stuff i can get cheap like headers, intake, exhaust and maybe a cam and headwork just to make these engines get some get up and go.

[F22B1VTEC]

Well Said. :)