how is any given swapped engine positioned in the engine bay?

[newaccorddriver]

this is a thread where im going to try and gather some information regarding how an engine should be placed in the engine bay. im going to be trying to swap in an F22 or H23 in the near future, and id like to know how it should be positioned and all so i dont snap axles constantly.

when the car is sitting down on the ground with the engine in place, should the axles be sitting as straight as possible? ive emailed the local driveline shop and im going to see if they can make me a custom axle for this application, but so far they havent responded at all yet.

does it make a different how much angle towards the back or the front when the engine is in?

i havent seen an accord or prelude without the motor out of it, but does anyone know if those mounts line up perpendicular to the car?

[ZackieDarko]

level as possible

[Legend_master]

level as possible


:werd:

[newaccorddriver]

level as possible meaning it should sit as upright as possible, or should sit as level as it does in the donor car?

and what about the angles of the axles?

[ZackieDarko]

level as in look at how the car looks stock

get it to look as close to stock as possible

[2oodoor]

yes, the less angle on the shafts the better I would say. Look at the factory set up on a car with the motor you are using. Some slight angle may be desired on the longer axle, Im guessing because the balance of torsional shock may be less intense through the axle assy as a whole.
makes sense to me
you want the head as level as it was in a car with that motor as well, so for example the oil that pools in the top of the head doe not flow away from returns, things like that.
Also, probably not as important in a fwd car,, it should not be mounted so the oil moves away from the sump when the car is launching..

[Legend_master]

level as possible meaning it should sit as upright as possible, or should sit as level as it does in the donor car?
and what about the angles of the axles?


I was speaking of the axles and how the motor sits in the car, unless you are considering the f-series those should lean back.

[Accordtheory]

I can help you out a lot on this from personal experience. The first step is gettin crunk. (lol) Then continue by observing exactly how the motor you want to swap in sits in its home chassis. I did not do this, I like making everything harder on myself. I basically just tried to make the bottom of the oil pan parallel with the ground. (My motor is slightly tilted forward from what it is in the integra.) Anyway, once you know the angle of the motor, then you should figure out the side to side placement. Height and front to back placement should be pretty obvious. I did the side to side placement by what I deemed as necessity, in other words, there isn't really much play here. (The damn thing almost hits both sides of the engine compartment, you do what you have to do to make it fit.) I had to beat the shit out of the passenger side 'framerail' to clearance the tranny. Then, ideally, you center the whole thing by measuring the distance between the differential/stub axle and the hubs, so your driveaxles will be equal length. (Most modern cars have equal length axles, as this supposedly eliminates torque steer, etc. Whatever. My car never had it before, look at the tremendous difference in length with the stock axles, and it would always burn both tires equally. I've never seen that with a b series without a lsd. wtf.) Anyway, I didn't do this on my car. I don't know if it's even possible with the 3g chassis. My axles are slightly different lengths. I don't see a problem with that, unless I break the driver's side one, then I'll have to build another one, as it's not just a stock axle, it has a different end. Still not that big of a deal though. The pass side is just an 89 teg axle, if I remember correctly.

As far as the mounts themselves, go with the style for the motor's home chassis. That way, you're using the factory's engineering as far as mount placement. In other words, if you're doing a b series, don't do what I did, buying a kit for a b series into a crx and then cutting it all up and re doing everything, buy the kit for the integra, and build the brackets on your chassis where they need to be. Do not leave out the front mount.
And one final thing. Don't go with extremely hard bushings, you'll just end up replacing them because they vibrate the hell out of your car, and they don't help with wheelhop either. There is the right stiffness for every application, harder is not always better.

[newaccorddriver]

thanks for all the useful info guys. as far as axles goes, i think i might have to actually get them custom made. as far as the mounts goes, i was looking at the guy in toronto or wherever that had the H22 in his 3g. he used a specific set of mounts, so i figured i might as well go use those as well. since your telling me otherwise, i should actually follow that since i really shouldnt butcher a set of swap mounts anyways. i guess ill see how everything goes when i get my motor together. as far as the shift linkage goes, i think im just going to drill a few holes through the firewall and bolt the 4g accord shifter console where our shifters would normally go.

hey accordtheory, i know the B series used shift rods, but how did you fabricate those rods? just compared the accord and the integra rods?

[Legend_master]

thanks for all the useful info guys. as far as axles goes, i think i might have to actually get them custom made. as far as the mounts goes, i was looking at the guy in toronto or wherever that had the H22 in his 3g. he used a specific set of mounts, so i figured i might as well go use those as well. since your telling me otherwise, i should actually follow that since i really shouldnt butcher a set of swap mounts anyways. i guess ill see how everything goes when i get my motor together. as far as the shift linkage goes, i think im just going to drill a few holes through the firewall and bolt the 4g accord shifter console where our shifters would normally go.
hey accordtheory, i know the B series used shift rods, but how did you fabricate those rods? just compared the accord and the integra rods?


The PRI shift linkage was just a factory Accord linkage with an Integra end welded on it.

[newaccorddriver]

The PRI shift linkage was just a factory Accord linkage with an Integra end welded on it.

the only difference between the rods were just the ends of them? i figured length and angle would have been an issue of some sort

[Legend_master]

the only difference between the rods were just the ends of them? i figured length and angle would have been an issue of some sort

Only the end that attached to the tranny was changed here is a pic. The part that attached to the shifter was left untouched. A-series on top, b-series on bottem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/5dd2b0b8.jpg

[newaccorddriver]

Only the end that attached to the tranny was changed here is a pic. The part that attached to the shifter was left untouched. A-series on top, b-series on bottem.


id imagine that people who bought that linkage and saw the accord ones must be pissed.

now that i think of it, a B series swap might be a bit more ideal since that kinda solves the linkage questions. the sad thing is i can get ahold of an H23 block/tranny for dirt cheap, the only catch is it needs a head...

[Legend_master]

id imagine that people who bought that linkage and saw the accord ones must be pissed.
now that i think of it, a B series swap might be a bit more ideal since that kinda solves the linkage questions. the sad thing is i can get ahold of an H23 block/tranny for dirt cheap, the only catch is it needs a head...

have you looked at the b18a's those go for about $200 running with no tranny.

[newaccorddriver]

have you looked at the b18a's those go for about $200 running with no tranny.

im in canada... so a B18A with a tranny is usually around $800 or so running

the H23 i had is mind is going for $300 without the head, so im more inclined to find a head for it. at worst i can use an F series head and make a terrible hybrid?:gun:

[Legend_master]

im in canada... so a B18A with a tranny is usually around $800 or so running
the H23 i had is mind is going for $300 without the head, so im more inclined to find a head for it. at worst i can use an F series head and make a terrible hybrid?:gun:


I bought mine in need of a rebuild for $150.00 and the tranny for $100.00. I think you would save yourself plenty of headaches bye going with a b-series. It's not like everybody and there mom has a b-swap in one of these cars. There might be more on the forum, but I bet nobody else in your town will ever have one.

[newaccorddriver]

I bought mine in need of a rebuild for $150.00 and the tranny for $100.00. I think you would save yourself plenty of headaches bye going with a b-series. It's not like everybody and there mom has a b-swap in one of these cars. There might be more on the forum, but I bet nobody else in your town will ever have one.

my main motive for doing a swap is cause i want to be different from every other honda i see at a meet. whenever i go to a car meet, i see the same cars over and over again, once in a while i see something new and different. i know not everyone has a B series swapped in their accords, but i want to take it a bit farther. i want to take it a bit farther then a B or H series civic. i wanna be the guy with a K series civic. when i first saw that civic along with everybody else, we were stunned. we knew it was only a matter of time before it was going to be done, but we were surprised to see it in person. the only difference is nobody would expect a B or H series accord anyways, so they would have never guessed.

i probably will get by alot easier with a B series swap since i have the help of many people here, but for financial reasons i probably wont be starting this project until winter time anyways.

a B or H series swap seems feasible since we have a few B series guys on here, along with one H series guy which doesnt really come on here. ive gathered enough information about the H series swap, that i believe its not as hard as it seems. although the B series are more plentiful in parts and everything, i cant seem to get ahold of one for a decent price. as far as the H series goes, ive sourced out a cheap block and tranny, but i cant source out a head. were i to source out a head for a relatively cheap price, ill go with the H series. if i can find a B series for a decent, and unpassable price, ill go with the B series instead.

[newaccorddriver]

build the brackets on your chassis where they need to be.


i just looked at your thread on how to swap in a B series engine. that drivers side engine mount looks like its basically stock, what was it out of?

[Accordtheory]

The driver's side mount was completely fabricated by me.

[newaccorddriver]

The driver's side mount was completely fabricated by me.

what kinda metal and thickness did you use?

['A20A3']

the H22 in a 3G is always gonna have shitty axles angles unless you do some CRAZY modification. if you don't believe me go look at Johnny O's car...