cruise control modification

[lostforawhile]

i still haven't finished hooking up my cruise in the hatch,just haven't had time to install the pedals is the main thing. i've heard people say the cruise on the three gees isn't very good,that it's jerky and takes a while to stabilize. i was looking at the book for the 96-2000 civic,and according to it,the wiring is identical for the cruise in that car. at least as far as the module. i'm not completly sure,but it may even have the same color codes as our car. one of the few things i like about the 98 civic slug,is that the cruise is very good. from looking at this wiring diagram, it's perfectly possible to use that module in our cars. it uses the same setup on the brake switch,the nuetral safety/clutch switch,speed sensor,indicator light,etc. and the same wiring on the vaccume module under the hood. if our cruise cable will hook up to the civic vaccume solonoid,it's also smaller then the one our cars,and probably in better condition then a 20 year old one. if we have to use ours,it will hook right up. i would think the baseline cruise map has been tweaked over the years to make it respond much smoother also. remember ours was one of the first generation honda cruise systems, the later module is much better. i would have thought it was somehow tied into the computer,but it's a complete stand alone unit like our cars.

[Vanilla Sky]

Wow, doing your homework well before us as usual.

I say find someone that's tossing their cruise stuff out of a compatible newer Civic and swap it in. Losing cruise is something a LOT of guys around here do when they motorswap or install a turbo.

One question is this: Where does the cruise control cable hook up in a Civic? Of course, in our cars, it's connected to the accel pedal. I've seen it hooked to the throttle linkage in others. This would likely cause a problem if it's not connected like in our cars.

[gp02a0083]

then again there might be a trickey thing somewhere in there , liek my sisters 92 civic the a/c is grounded through the ecu

[2ndGenGuy]

Hmm, maybe you should swap back to a 2g cruise control system then. Mine is smooth as butter... It works as good if not better than the cruise in my 95 Civic...

[Hazwan]

I want cruise control :(

[lostforawhile]

Wow, doing your homework well before us as usual.
I say find someone that's tossing their cruise stuff out of a compatible newer Civic and swap it in. Losing cruise is something a LOT of guys around here do when they motorswap or install a turbo.
One question is this: Where does the cruise control cable hook up in a Civic? Of course, in our cars, it's connected to the accel pedal. I've seen it hooked to the throttle linkage in others. This would likely cause a problem if it's not connected like in our cars.it doesn't matter where the cable hooks up on the civic,if our cable end fits the vaccume servo. even if it doesn't,you can wire our vaccume servo, to the civic control. it's only three vaccume valves. both are wired exactly the same. same for the cruise control box.

[2oodoor]

There are some minor differences in connections.
The 3rd gen carb CC module get VSS signal from speedo- Civic gets it streight from VSS sensor
3rd gen carb CC module gets a signal from tach (rpm) -Civic does not

The acutator color codes are the same colors but I am not sure if they are the same function. Following is the color code comparison at the control unit for CC:
Listed first is the pin name, second is 3rd gen color, third is 98 civic color
RPM input= blue~none
CC on indicator lite=red~red/blue
Acuator cont.(civic) vent valve cont.(accord)=brown/white~brown/white
Disengage signal,clutch sw=pink~pink
power input=LT Green~LT Green
set decel sw sig=LT Green/red~Lt Green/red
Acuator cont(civic) common positive (accord)=brown~brown
brake input=grey~grey
ground=black~black
Acurator cont.(civic) vacuum valve cont(accord)=brown/black~brown/black
resume accel sw sig=LT Green/black~Lt Green black
brake input=Green/white~Green/white
speed input=Yellow/red~Blue/white

[lostforawhile]

There are some minor differences in connections.
The 3rd gen carb CC module get VSS signal from speedo- Civic gets it streight from VSS sensor
3rd gen carb CC module gets a signal from tach (rpm) -Civic does not
The acutator color codes are the same colors but I am not sure if they are the same function. Following is the color code comparison at the control unit for CC:
Listed first is the pin name, second is 3rd gen color, third is 98 civic color
RPM input= blue~none
CC on indicator lite=red~red/blue
Acuator cont.(civic) vent valve cont.(accord)=brown/white~brown/white
Disengage signal,clutch sw=pink~pink
power input=LT Green~LT Green
set decel sw sig=LT Green/red~Lt Green/red
Acuator cont(civic) common positive (accord)=brown~brown
brake input=grey~grey
ground=black~black
Acurator cont.(civic) vacuum valve cont(accord)=brown/black~brown/black
resume accel sw sig=LT Green/black~Lt Green black
brake input=Green/white~Green/white
speed input=Yellow/red~Blue/white
the inside of the vaccume solonoid is the same. vent valve,vaccume solonoid,and safety solonoid. wired the same as the accord. also the vss sensor on the civic should put out a pulse ground signal just like the pulsed ground signal on the accord. the only reason for the tach input was in case of overrevs. this can be replaced with a rev limiter if desired. as far as the pulse signal for input to the speed sensor, the unit actually doesn't know how fast you are going,it compares that pulse signal to the one in memory from when you pressed the set button. it's a simple comparator circuit.

[lostforawhile]

the inside of the vaccume solonoid is the same. vent valve,vaccume solonoid,and safety solonoid. wired the same as the accord. also the vss sensor on the civic should put out a pulse ground signal just like the pulsed ground signal on the accord. the only reason for the tach input was in case of overrevs. this can be replaced with a rev limiter if desired. as far as the pulse signal for input to the speed sensor, the unit actually doesn't know how fast you are going,it compares that pulse signal to the one in memory from when you pressed the set button. it's a simple comparator circuit.the wiring to the vaccume solonoid is:
brown from module common power to all three solonoids
connects to white on solonoid
brown/black from module goes to vaccume solonoid
connects to blue on solonoid
brown/white on module goes to vent solonoid
connects to brown on module

the common hot from the module connects to the safety solonoid,and it has it's own seperate ground wire which is black

how it basically works, when there is power from the module,the safety valve closes,allowing the vaccume module to retain vaccume, the vaccume solonoid allows vaccume to increase speed,this causes a pull on the cable, the vent valve releases vaccume,this relaxes tension on the cable reducing speed. the safety valve releases any residual vaccume whenever power is removed from it. it's normally open to atmosphere,but whenever power is applied to it,EG. the cruise control switch is turned on,it closes retaining vaccume. this is in case there is ever a malfunction in the system, all you have to do is remove power,(turn off the switch),and the vaccume is instantly released. it doesn't cause a vaccume leak,because the vaccume solonoid seperates the system from the atmosphere. if there is power to the vaccume solonoid opening it,there is also power to the safety valve closing it.

[2oodoor]

So there still invites room for error on the mechanical , electromechanical ,and vaccum accuated components side of the loop despite the electronic control being upgraded.
I think that most any FI car cruise control probably works more precise than a carbed car.

[LX-incredible]

So, would it be possible to entirely do away with the vacuum actuated cruise and go with an fully electronic unit, like on late 90s GM?

[lostforawhile]

So there still invites room for error on the mechanical , electromechanical ,and vaccum accuated components side of the loop despite the electronic control being upgraded.
I think that most any FI car cruise control probably works more precise than a carbed car.
the cruise works exactly the same on the civic as on my accord,it pulls on a cable which moves the gas pedal assembly,just like you were stepping on the gas.

[2ndGenGuy]

Yeah, I don't see the difference between carb'd and EFI as far as cruise goes. Unless you've got a bad VSS, then cruise will work the same. I don't think that the cruise is super-sensitive. Probably has a few MPH buffer.

[lostforawhile]

Yeah, I don't see the difference between carb'd and EFI as far as cruise goes. Unless you've got a bad VSS, then cruise will work the same. I don't think that the cruise is super-sensitive. Probably has a few MPH buffer.well the map that is programmed into the cruise module is probably better then on the accord, that map controls how the module responds to inputs from the speed sensor,and controls the speed on the car. i would think the later module would be more refined then the early one. it's like on early robotics,the first ones were jerky and uncordinated,then advances in programming made them operate much more smoothly.

[2oodoor]

Yeah, I don't see the difference between carb'd and EFI as far as cruise goes. Unless you've got a bad VSS, then cruise will work the same. I don't think that the cruise is super-sensitive. Probably has a few MPH buffer.
the difference on these early Honda's would be the throttle response time vs the "sampling" of the control unit....but I dont want to get into an argument on that cause Im a carb guy here:kekeke:
There is a huge difference in the example of the 90's GM vehicle. Not even the same animal in several ways, and no I dont think it could work on our Hondas without major hardware configuration modifications and OBD2.

[2oodoor]

well the map that is programmed into the cruise module is probably better then on the accord, that map controls how the module responds to inputs from the speed sensor,and controls the speed on the car. i would think the later module would be more refined then the early one. it's like on early robotics,the first ones were jerky and uncordinated,then advances in programming made them operate much more smoothly.
Very good point

[2ndGenGuy]

Yeah... I dunno, the Cruise just doesn't seem any better on my 95 Civic than it does on my Accord, but I guess I'll have to try it out some more cos i've never really paid any attention.

[lostforawhile]

on this topic i noticed the cruise unit on the 92 accord looks like it takes the same cable,but is smaller. could be handy for clearance problems under the hood.