b20a installed no start!!!

[3gmodifier]

ok i decided to throw my b20a into my project cuope yesterday. i have been working on it for over 8 months so with all the preps i got it bolted down in about 30 min. i hooked everything up and i go to start it and my starter makes a horrible grinding sound.:wtf: the teeth arent engaging. and yes its from an automatic. do i need to pull the engine back out to grind something off or do i try some washers like i have read befor. any thoughts.

[88accordSF]

try starter shims, to move the starter away from the block.... sometimes as small as 25 thousands-inch (.025") can make the difference. i've had to use up to an eighth inch (.125") on my oldschools to get the starter gear positioned correctly and not grind.

not sure if this applies to honda vehicles.

are you running a b20a-specific starter?

also check to see if the auto and manual tranny starter specs are the same...

[Ichiban]

My 2g starter has one round bolt hole and the other is ovaled, to allow adjustment of the depth of engagement on the ring gear. If yours is the same, you might try loosening off both bolts and moving (rotating) the starter either way and see if it helps.

[A18A]

the auto starter should be fine, i'm using one. are you using a flywheel from a b20a5? i read somewhere that there should be a little gap between the starter & the gearbox using a couple washers or something, i'll try find the thread

edit: here we go, different problem but maybe it can help http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46949&highlight=b20a+b20a5+starter+flywheel

[AccordB20A]

i had the same problem when i used an incorrect flywheel and clutch setup on a different gearbox. i didnt fix it i replaced the clutch and shit. other than that i dont know what it cd be, cant be an incorrect starter motor cause if it bolts on it shd work....

[RobT5580]

Is it a 5speed tranny? Im assuming it might be and if it is you probably need to grind the bell housing down a little. For some reason the pressure plate rubs on a small area in the bell housing when you use a B20A5 clutch kit. Hopefully for your sake its the starter engaugment so you dont have to pull the tranny. If it is the problem i can post a picture.

[3gmodifier]

ok i did some work today on it and heres the current diagnosis, the starter is extending out how its supose to but it seems that the flywheel is too small. after all the atempt to adjust it with washers and what not i pulled it out and spraypaint the whole inside of the starter black, then put it back in with out washers and turned it over and let it grind like it does. then pulled it back out to see ware it was touching.(any shiny unpainted are will show up) its touching on the tis of the starter motor teeth. it extends far enought to reach the flywheel teeth perfavt but its not low enough for the teeth to mesh. the b20a and a20a flywheels have the same dimensions correct? when i had the motor apart i sat the a20a pressure plate on there just to see the comparison and it fit right on there so with that said, the flywheel on the b20a should in fact be the right one. but heres the twist, after countless times tring to play with it,i took the starter out of my sedan and compared how the position of the flywheel looked on both ingines. the one on my a20 deffinitly looks like it is larger in diameter and the edge sat about center with hole the motor goes into. the flywheel on the b20 seems to be smaller and the edge with the teeth seem to be about only a third . so now i am thinking that maybe who ever had the motor before me or even before him might have put a differant flywheel on. it realy suck cuz i was planning to get it running to make sure everything was cool so thaat i can continue my wire tuck. i need to do that so i can pull the engine back out to finish welding every single little whole that isnt used and paint the engine bay. but it looks like i am going to pull it out change the flywheel, put it in, then pullit out again. oh well. aslo btw, i have just orderd a fidanza flywheel so any suggestions from my current standpoint as to what clutchkit to get and whether or not i need to modify or grind any thing to make it work in order to have everything run smooth later on. thanks for the help.

[MessyHonda]

sorry to be ironic....but push start the SOB!

[A18A]

it realy suck cuz i was planning to get it running to make sure everything was cool so thaat i can continue my wire tuck. i need to do that so i can pull the engine back out to finish welding every single little whole that isnt used and paint the engine bay. but it looks like i am going to pull it out change the flywheel, put it in, then pullit out again. oh well.
you could try just pulling it all out, remove the flywheel from engine, put the clutch in the flywheel, bolt the pressure plate on, then put it in the tranny, put the starter in, and then crank it with the tranny, flywheel & clutch seperated from the engine, would be easier to find the problem that way too. idk, just a thought

[RobT5580]

Im running the B20A5 Fidanza flywheel and a clutch masters B20A5 4 puck clutch with an A20A3 auto starter and the only issue i had was the bell housing. I just took my grinder and trimmed it down where it was hitting.

[3gmodifier]

ok guys it has been a long while now since my last update. i have my coupe 80% done. the wire tuck, battery relocation, brake line relocation and engine harness is done. i ran the b20 about 2 weeks ago for the first time and it was perfect, i pulled it back out so i could finish the harness and put my fidanza flywheel in. now i know there is a little spot on the bellhousing thats needs to be grinded down and i have search for over 2 hours. i have many old posts but they were so old no pics would show. does anyone have a picture of ware i need to grind. i installed everything and realized the crank wouldnt turn i lossened the trany bolts just a bit and turned the crank pulley. it grined a bit so i figured when i pull the tranny back off i would see a spot that is scratched and i would know ware to grind. but i found nothing. any help is appreciated. i will have pics up soon

[3gmodifier]

ok i figured out ware it was rubbing and took care of it last night. i am going to drop the motor back in today and fire it up. i'll check back in to give an update.

[86nlife2go]

Fingers X...........b20 coupe huh...VERY NICE!

[snoopyloopy]

when's the next socal meet?! i gotta see this beast in person...

btw, do you still have that moonroof visor?

[2oodoor]

It seems like it could possibly warp the flywheel if it was contacting the BH and it was torqued down. Hopefully not! Have you driven it yet at all?

[3gmodifier]

every thing checked out good with pressure plate and flywheel. i only needed to take off a hair or so. i havent driven this car since i bought it 10 months ago. i drove it for two days when i bought it. it was a wednseday. i drove to work with it as a stock auto thursday and friday, then friday night i pulled motor and stuck it into my sedan because its motor was ready to blow. from that night on my coupe was determined to be a 5 speed, b20 powered machine. i have been working on it ever since. the last couple of weeks have been crazy. i have been getting all the last little bits and pieces. it seems like the little things are usually quite big and most expensive. i have brand new from wheel bearings, all bushings, 2 brand new axles, clutch kit, clutch,brake,gas peadal assembly, clutch cable, shift linkage, new dashboard, custom trunk board, battery relocation, and a shit load more all within that last 3 weeks. it has been crazy but well worth it to see it all come together finally. and snoop, i still have one visor left, i will most likely get more because i see them all the time at the junkyard.

[3gmodifier]

oh i almost forgot, if there is any other b20 guys out there, i have the a/c compressor, power steering pump and bracket for sale. it all came complete with my b20 but i have no use for it. i even have the original oem belts that were still on there.

[Bass Man]

How's it run?!?!!

[mykwikcoupe]

oh i almost forgot, if there is any other b20 guys out there, i have the a/c compressor, power steering pump and bracket for sale. it all came complete with my b20 but i have no use for it. i even have the original oem belts that were still on there.

how much, im interested

[3gmodifier]

ok, i have great news, i officially have a b20a powerd coupe. i started it up on saturday and have been breaking it in since then, i am on my 4th oil change, i am kinda nuts like that. it run flawless. it picks very quick with the fidanza flywheel. i just took a bunch of pics yesterday but i am working nights right now so i will try to get them up as soon as possible.

[thegreatdane]

Cool hurry up with the pics! Is it running obd-1 or what are you running it off?

[snoopyloopy]

how much, im interested

as am i...

[3gmodifier]

ok guys i know i havent gotten the pics up yet but i have a small problem. i beleive the stock alternator is no good. when i drive the car it has a rough idle, especially when the lights are on. when i hit the brakes, it stalls sometimes. the battery was crap and very old so i put in my optima from the the sedan, it ran much better and the lights had much less of an afeect on the electrical system. but it still idles a little bit rough and i wanna make sure i have full power at all times. jdm fogs use a lot of juice when everything else is on at the same time. i wanted to upgrade the alternator like i did on my sedan. i used the much greater powered unit from a 93 legend. it works great on an a20 but the bracket design is very differant when compared to the b20a. does any one here know if any other alternators will fit, prefferably a higher output than stock. i am at the j/y everyweekend but i have to go to sacramento this weekend so i cant even do the research. any ideas?

oh yeah pics soon i promise

[bullard123]

Are you sure it's the alternator?? Bad sparkplugs or spark plug wires could cause bad idling also. It sounds like its something else

[3gmodifier]

thats kinda what i was thinking too but it has brand new plugs and wires it only idles low and rough when i have my lights on and then let of the gas or hit the brakes, both of these scenario's are in nuetral. i have tried to raise the idle but then comes the annoying part, if i go just high enough to stop the problem, once i turn all the lights off, the engine overcompensates for no lack of power and it revs to high causing it to go into an idle surge. it goes up and down and up and own and up and down and you get point. kinda like the IACV is messed up. i thought that aswell but i put a brand new one on there and nothing changed, i have a confirmed 12v coming off the alternator when its running but at the moment i have no way of checking the amps. i just have to keep researching.

[bullard123]

thats kinda what i was thinking too but it has brand new plugs and wires it only idles low and rough when i have my lights on and then let of the gas or hit the brakes, both of these scenario's are in nuetral. i have tried to raise the idle but then comes the annoying part, if i go just high enough to stop the problem, once i turn all the lights off, the engine overcompensates for no lack of power and it revs to high causing it to go into an idle surge. it goes up and down and up and own and up and down and you get point. kinda like the IACV is messed up. i thought that aswell but i put a brand new one on there and nothing changed, i have a confirmed 12v coming off the alternator when its running but at the moment i have no way of checking the amps. i just have to keep researching.
You can take it to your local Autozone or Checkers to get it tested

[AccordB20A]

could be the alternator, i only say this because they are rubbish and allways fuck out lol

[3gmodifier]

i am gonna try to take it in to get checked but when i do, what car do i say its from? each car has differant specs for how much output is normal. do i say it's from a prelude or what. i really wish i was gonna be here this weekend so i can do some r&d at the junk yard. oh well, next week i will try something.

[88Accord-DX]

Any parts store will have a alternator/battery tester. Most any alternator will put out 14 volts or little more.

[MessyHonda]

yeah at idle it should put out at least 14.4v....i remember my car ran like crap when my alternator was dieing....i was proud cuz my ran even on 6v.....she got me home

[3gmodifier]

ok i just used my volt meter. it puts out 14.50+- but i still cant figure it out. i got the voltage but as soon as i hit the lights or brakes or especially both, it drops the idle so bad it wants to stall, infact 2 miles after leaving work today i was approaching a stoplight, downshifted to 3rd, then second, then as soon as i put it in neutral it almost died, then i hit the brakes and it did. i had to start it back up barely and pull over to raise the idle more to get home. it;s a weird situation. i wonder if it has anything to do with my flywheel, it;s so light that there is no rotational inertia to keep the engine spinning. maybe my engine is just that much more sensitive to the loads put on it.

[MessyHonda]

maybe add some more grounds?

[89T]

ok i just used my volt meter. it puts out 14.50+- but i still cant figure it out. i got the voltage but as soon as i hit the lights or brakes or especially both, it drops the idle so bad it wants to stall, infact 2 miles after leaving work today i was approaching a stoplight, downshifted to 3rd, then second, then as soon as i put it in neutral it almost died, then i hit the brakes and it did. i had to start it back up barely and pull over to raise the idle more to get home. it;s a weird situation. i wonder if it has anything to do with my flywheel, it;s so light that there is no rotational inertia to keep the engine spinning. maybe my engine is just that much more sensitive to the loads put on it.
defiantly check all connections.(a bad ground will act as you described )
so you know 14.5 volts at idle with no load only means the voltage regulator is working properly without a load.
you need to apply a load. turn your lights on bright, heater on high ect. then check the voltage and keep the meter on for at least 10-15 sec.
if it dips below 12v then you know you need an alt.

[3gmodifier]

u know what, i have been so busy finishing my vac lines for the digi climate control water vavle that i didnt think to check the voltage with a full load. as far as the rough idle, i was able to fine tune it but yeah, there is still a problem when i am driving with lights on ect. i'll check it tomorrow.

[bullard123]

So how is everything coming long?

[bullard123]

I tried starting my B20A and I heard a little grinding in the starter area but not too bad. I had my car on jack stands too so that could have prevented the grinding from being worse

[AccordB20A]

tryed starting it? what flywheel and starter are you using?

[bullard123]

tryed starting it? what flywheel and starter are you using?

The A20 starter and B20A5 flywheel. We turned it over but we didn't get any spark.We hooked up the prelude igniter. I think I have to run 2 wires to the ecu. Is this correct?

[AccordB20A]

one wire comes from the ecu to the ignitor.
theres a wiring diagram somewhere around here... what ECU is it

[bullard123]

one wire comes from the ecu to the ignitor.
theres a wiring diagram somewhere around here... what ECU is it

I have the PK2 Ecu

[AccordB20A]

those two wires on the ECU pinout that go to the ignitor join together into one wire and go to the white wire on the ignitor i believe.
heres an example from thegreatdane http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/5059/b20aelectronicignitionswp9.jpg
but in your case the ECU output pin "A8" will be "B15" and "B17"