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View Full Version : Header Wrap , Why and Why not



Monoxide
05-09-2002, 04:25 PM
Question what type of gains did anybody get out of the Pacesetter on a 2.0 EFI. More Tork? or HP? please fill me in cause i plan on getting on with my Income Tax check...

T:super:
Thanks
Kurt
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READ THE HEADER WRITE UP IN THE FAQ SECTION (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37261)
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Jims 86LXI HB
05-09-2002, 06:37 PM
I don't have have a header, yet,...but I have read the posts from people replying to your question before. They usually say that they did notice a gain and they were happy they installed the header. Now quite a few of the pacesetter owners did complain about the paint burning off and that afterwards it wasn't very nice to look at. And that this header tends make noise where it hits a crossmember, they fixed it by either grinding away on the header or cross member where it rubs. Striping the paint off and applying high temp ceramic paint and fixing the problem with the crossmember would likely be a good idea before you install it. Worthwhile fix's considering the price is cheap. I want the DC sports header, but it's not avaible right now:rant:

I think HondaSi88 is still selling one of the pacesetter headers in the trading post section on this board.

jteuton
05-09-2002, 06:38 PM
better spent on muffler, new coil, or cam regrind in my opinion. That is unless youv'e ported the hell out of the intake. Stock head and intake manifold with a header will only gain a couple of horses if lucky...jteuton

n88accordLX-i
05-09-2002, 07:05 PM
the only time i noticed added h/p with my DC headers, is when they get really hot, then my car pulls REAL good, but when i get my camshaft they should help out even better with the increased exhaust flow

POS carb
05-09-2002, 07:50 PM
you can get that effect by wrapping the headers in header wrap but it may be a bit risky with the aluminum headed Honda, I dunno. Header wrap is an old school trick like the flipping the aircleaner lid

CARBurn
05-09-2002, 08:10 PM
I'm not sure about pacesetter, but the last set of headers I had were chikara's for my 86 civic Si, and they said not to use header wrap, and I'm not sure why. I'm not sure if this goes for all headers or what?

In regards to pacesetter headers, what Jim said is true. In the morning when I start my car, I can hear a rattling noise coming from under the engine bay, and I have found the source of it to be from my headers vibrating off the cross member. That's one advantage of the DC headers I was told cuz they keep the OEM flex joint to prevent this.

I also got the black painted type, and yes it did peel off and turn grey, but what I did was take a rag and just wiped it off and now it looks black and neat again.

Other than that I have see some good performance gains from the install. Just my opinion of course.

Nate2310
10-17-2002, 09:48 PM
Does getting that header wrap really help at all?

It says it gives you more horse power and retains heat?

79EK1
10-17-2002, 10:46 PM
It can give you more horsepower by retaining the exhaust heat in the pipes. The retained heat speeds the exhaust flow which helps scavenge the cylinders, and it keeps the underhood temperatures lower. The BIG problem with the wraps is that they retain moisture when they're cold, which makes the headers rust out fast. Ceramic coating the headers will give you the best value, although they cost more initially. In either case, we're only talking about a small gain in power (a few percent).

guaynabo89
10-18-2002, 05:57 AM
I wouln't say it increase hp but it is something you can feel on a moified engine.

PhydeauX
10-18-2002, 06:17 AM
totally off the topic of this thread but, 79ek1 did we finally pick up a first gener?

andy

shepherd79
10-18-2002, 07:43 AM
ok i think Mike (A20A1) used to have on his car long time ago. i remember on the old board he was talking about how bad it smells when it gets hot.

79EK1
10-18-2002, 08:58 AM
PhydeauX, I am a first genner. I hope that's ok, as first gen Accord forums seem non-existent.

guaynabo89
10-18-2002, 09:17 AM
Cool:cool:

My first car was a 78 accord cvcc. Ran like a champ too.

markmdz89hatch
10-18-2002, 09:19 AM
hey PhydeauX, how the F did you know that 79EK1 was a 1st genner. ...his 3G's handle..????

Anyway, 79EK1, you seem like u know ur shit... Welcome!

jteuton
10-18-2002, 10:03 AM
Yeah the part about retaining heat in the pipes to increase velocity flow is not often known by many people. He knows his subject pretty well. If you did that or not.....I would at least wrap my fuel lines in wrap to shield away heat......hell while your at it throw a few ferrite magnets on them to polarize the hydrocarbons right ( I have no clue if that works or not)

79EK1
10-18-2002, 01:30 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I came here to learn from you guys, and hopefully pass on some info to you, too.

PhydeauX
10-19-2002, 02:03 PM
Yeah the handle gave it away. I'm one of 2 or 3 second genners. There is really no support for the old accords. If you want to know one thing to do to that motor to wake it up, slap a weber carb conversion on there.

andy

79EK1
10-19-2002, 10:23 PM
Yeah, the Webers make a big difference. I'm running the 38DGES downdraft now, and will switch to a dual 40 DCOE kit I recently picked up. Should be a screamer (relatively speaking).

PhydeauX
10-20-2002, 12:00 AM
Yeah, I droped 7/10ths off my et when I switched from a 32/36 dgv to a pair of 40 dcoes.

andy

Nate2310
10-21-2002, 05:00 PM
Yeah, i'm going to buy the pacesetter header kit and would they rust out w/ the winter and everyday driving if I got the header wrap??????????????????

jteuton
10-22-2002, 07:48 AM
I don't think header wrap is recommended for everyday street use. It won't let the header breathe right so the moisture will cause premature rust. I heard there's not much of a difference in 1/4 mile drag racing cause there just not enough time for the exhaust to warm up. Unless you don't let it cool between runs and run one run right after another...,,,but I here people at track and autocross competion swear by these things as they really keep the heat down under sustained driving conditions. I've even seen people bake these wraps on.

Nate2310
10-23-2002, 12:52 PM
well thanks for all the info everyone has told me about header wrap and w/ all this said, I don't think i'm going to get it cause I drive my car everday and probably wouldn't be the best thing.

thankx:smokin:

Mantis88LX
02-15-2003, 07:43 PM
does header wrap really work? i heard you can gain horsepower if you have your header wraped with this.

can someone explain this more?

thanx

Mantis88LX
02-15-2003, 07:57 PM
ok what i have read is there not good to use on street cars because they will cause the header to get so hot it can fail. also it will hold moisture.

Mike's89AccordLX
02-15-2003, 08:04 PM
And, "smell like burnt nachos" *quote:A20A1*

I personally wouldn't put it on b/c I heard it will hold in moisture and will create rust faster. I have this 1500degree paint on now and it works and looks cool.

shepherd79
02-15-2003, 08:06 PM
i think mike (a20a1) had them on this car, and one time he said that they smell like burned nachos.

Sean
02-15-2003, 10:35 PM
or just use cermic coating.

Jims 86LXI HB
02-15-2003, 10:47 PM
Well I know for a fact that with the Dc Sports headers they go out of their way to mention in the papers that come with the header NOT to ever use header wrap on their headers. It will void the warranty.

Mike's89AccordLX
02-15-2003, 11:00 PM
I don't think it would look that great with that ugly wrap on anyways. My headers are alluminum color now and they look sweet.

Mantis88LX
02-16-2003, 08:09 AM
any header wrap will void all headers warranty.

im using flat black 1200 degree barbecue grill paint, it works well and makes water and oil run right off, it has chiped in spots but i painted it back. i could never get the actual 1500 degree header paint to work, it woud just burn off.

SiCReX
02-17-2003, 11:47 PM
hey i was thinking, since the valve cover gets pretty hot too would it be cool to put a coat or 2 of the 1500 degree paint on it also?

Jims 86LXI HB
02-17-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by SiCReX
hey i was thinking, since the valve cover gets pretty hot too would it be cool to put a coat or 2 of the 1500 degree paint on it also?

Well certainly if your painting your own, you have to use high temp paint for it to last. I prefer 500 degree paint since it is a gloss. The 1500 degree paint that i've used was a flat that had to have a gloss coat added to look nice on a valve cover.

Sean
02-17-2003, 11:58 PM
ive found some nice looking high temp gloos paints. bascially a high temp powered coat valve covers typically dont get hotter then about 220 or so.

ryan88lxi
04-19-2003, 02:46 PM
ok so by putting header wrap on, the temperature goes down inside the engine because its insulating the heat and keeping it out of the engine. i want to do it, but the warranty card on my headers (dc sport ceramic) said it would void the warranty if i wrapped it. im not getting the warranty but it led me to belive the the header wrap could damage the headers in some way. anyone have any info? thanks

BensAccordLxi
04-19-2003, 02:53 PM
It can cause the ceramc coating to be scratched away. It can also trap moisture between the wrap and the header and that can cause some issues. Actualy, that is a guess but it seems to be the only thing I can come up with.

dXsquared
04-19-2003, 02:55 PM
the heat gets trapped inside. then it overheats the headers and they get fucked up.

header wrap is for V8's with 135 dollar per pair headers. not 350 dollars for one like out car. just leave them bare

Travis

shepherd79
04-19-2003, 03:29 PM
i would say if you have cheap pacessetter headers you should do, but in your case with ceramic coating. leave it alone.

PhydeauX
04-19-2003, 04:23 PM
You have ceramic coated headers. The ceramic coating does the same thing as the wrap (actually works better). There's no point to wraping them.

Wraping or ceramic coating the headers is to keep the heat in the exhaust. It keeps the velocity up and helps scavenging.

andy

AccordEpicenter
04-19-2003, 08:19 PM
yeah ive heard about primary tubes overheating with wrap... didnt juan or sombody say it smelled like burnt nachos?

dXsquared
04-19-2003, 08:41 PM
mike (A20A1) has the nacho smell

Travis

maxoutracer
04-20-2003, 01:12 AM
header wrap are good in ways, it will keep your engine bay heat down but in few month the header will start rusting really bad.

ryan88lxi
04-20-2003, 10:13 PM
ok well that is enough info for me not to do it. i asked because m friend with a gs-r has wrap on his and i was wondering if it would help anything. ok well thanks for the info guys

OldSchoolSwap
04-21-2003, 05:06 AM
One more comment on this :D
Header wrap will crack your headers open, with time. Here's a technical question for all you guru's :)
What does heat and cold do to metals? Thats right Expand and vise versa. Wraps will only accelerate this issue further more, creating additional stress that the header does not need. Wraps retain heat and cook the headers alive! They get so hot that they probably glow in the dark but the wraps won't allow you to see that. ;)

Either way, wraps are for track cars and not street cars (us) :werd: :)

POS carb
04-21-2003, 12:02 PM
i'm going to wrap the hi-po LXi exhaust Igot from you and see what happens lol

PhydeauX
04-21-2003, 04:24 PM
My pacesetters have been wraped over a year with no problems to speak of yet. I can't say the same for the down pipe which has already cracked. Heat and expansion arn't going to bother a mild steel header as much as they would a cast manifold.

andy

FyreDaug
08-12-2005, 12:29 AM
Last week I bought some header wrap off ebay, I recently got a pacesetter header from a member here, sanded it down and painted it (well, tomorrow anyways). And the header wrap should be here shortly. I figured that it should help in a couple ways, one being lowering the ambient temperature in the engine bay since the heat cant be transferred into the engine bay air, the intake air should be a little cooler, and it should keep the exhaust hot all throughout the exhaust.

Anyone else have headerwrap? Is it actually worth the 45 canadian I spent shipped?

EDIT: 50ft x2inches link (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7966509369&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT)

88accordalltheway
08-12-2005, 02:40 AM
does anyone know if the stock heat shield will fit over pacesetters? cause that would be really cool to do, wrap them in the band-aids, then have the heat shield over it. Sure it wouldnt look pretty, but itd perform well.
If the heat shield dosnt fit, is there any way to make these wraps look better?

FyreDaug
08-12-2005, 09:54 AM
I sanded it all down and put a couple layers of high temp paint on it before I wrap it.

What about wrapping more of the exhaust too? Since I did buy quite a bit that is good for wrapping 2 headers (they pluralized headers, so I assumed it meant for 2).
So do the downpipe and cover the resonators, I might have enough to do the majority of the exhaust.
EDIT: Damnit, I missed the UPS guy today, apparently I owe 35 dollars for godamn duty fees. What a bunch of theifs

FyreDaug
08-12-2005, 11:51 AM
I know its not as thick as the professional coatings, but its all I got, and it should be good for the header to not rust, and the wrap should be good to keep the heat in.

Can I use those O clamps like on the radiator hoses and stuff like that? With the screw to tighten it? Ive got a bunch lying around and I dont see why they wont work to hold the wrap on.

Just curious, out of a full exhaust system what do people normally expect for gains? With intake and exhaust I figured 10hp should be about right, but maybe more? (Yes I know its a dumb question that noobs ask, but I dont know how these engines react to mods)

88accordalltheway
08-12-2005, 11:54 AM
would it be good to wrap it all the way to the muffler? or would that just be over kill? Would the muffler even be able to take that much concentrated heat? Hey mike, where do you get the "pro" hight temp paint? I just thought the heat shield would just be even more protection, but would you use it?

FyreDaug
08-12-2005, 02:45 PM
I got some heat stuff 9 bucks a spray can. Has ceramic in it too. I plan on wrapping the whole exhaust, whether or not it does anything I think thoeretically it would.

FyreDaug
08-12-2005, 03:59 PM
Bah, theres carbon and shit in the header because it was used. I think it'll be fine for the time my car lives anyways.

I wont have a cat or a muffler. Remember mike my idea before? Ram air exhaust? Well Im kind of ditching that, its gonna be 2.5" header to Y and after the Y it will be 2.25" 1 res right after header, and if its still pretty loud, 1 res on each side of the Y.

It'll be loud, hopefully tolerable.

superaccord
08-12-2005, 05:16 PM
So, is header wrap a go, or NO?

racerx
08-17-2005, 11:47 PM
I'm actually planning on wrapping the header on my prelude tomorrow. I'll take some pics.

But I have a question: Is there any correct/incorrect way to wrap a header? It seems all you have to do is clamp, wrap, and cut the excess for the next primary. Oh and wrap the middle 2 together, if they're close enough.
Is this right? Is there something else I should be aware of?

Thanks, and I'll be sure to get some pics up too.

racerx
08-18-2005, 09:13 AM
lol thanks. i had to read that a few times before i understood what you were talking about. lol. alright sounds like a plan! i'm heading up in a few, so I should have pics within a few hours! :D

Accordtheory
08-18-2005, 03:25 PM
Just curious, out of a full exhaust system what do people normally expect for gains? With intake and exhaust I figured 10hp should be about right, but maybe more? (Yes I know its a dumb question that noobs ask, but I dont know how these engines react to mods)

You'll be lucky to see 1hp..I am anti-header wrap..

racerx
08-18-2005, 04:04 PM
well, i just finished wrapping the header. (and also upgrading my engine grounds to 4 gauge wire with gold connectors) :D

ok, so on the way home, i noticed that smoke was pouring out of my engine bay. oh and it was sooooooo lovely smelling too. like a bed of roses. NOT!
but it's not unbearable, either.
people tell me it takes about a week of driving before that stentch goes away, and the wrap has broken in, or whatever.

anyway, i stopped after a while of driving, popped the hood, and the entire engine bay is WAY cooler. i had heard 40-60% cooler, but i didn't believe it. i don't know if it's exactly that, but it is significantly cooler in there. my cai pipes are actually the temperature of the atmosphere, even after sitting for a while. before, they would get as hot as hell, cause not much cool air was flowing through.

so, i wouldn't say that the header wrap itself gave me more than 1hp by itself, but because of it, i would stand to argue that more power is to be had, seeing as how the engine bay temp has been reduced.

i would recommend it to anyone.

pics coming soon. my dad has the camera....

halxi
08-18-2005, 04:07 PM
sweet! youll have to give me a link to where you got it from. I just had Justin start making me a header today, and ill have enough money for it in about 3 weeks, so new exhaust is soon to come :deal:

so was the wrap like BURNING or melting/smoking?

racerx
08-18-2005, 04:15 PM
Here's the link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fiberglass-Kart-Racing-Exhaust-Header-Wrap-50ft-Black_W0QQitemZ7994231797QQcategoryZ33631QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

that's the exact same auction i bought mine from. right now, there's 8 left. definately worth the money, imo.

it's not "black" persay; more like gray/darkgray. it's pretty much the white stuff dyed in black... maybe it's a different material altogether, but it looks way better than that nasty white crap. the white is already a milky color to start, and then when it breaks in there's brown stains in it that look like the fat kid's skivies after gym class...

as fas as the burning goes, no it's not actually burning (i.e. on fire) but it's smoking/smoldering. it just needs to settle in i guess. the material can supposedly withstand 1000 degrees F before burning/corroding, so i think it'll be alright.

BlueBead
08-18-2005, 04:21 PM
I wrapped all the way to the flex..
Thats where you should stop... the idea is to keep the heat out of the engine bay. Going to far will overheat your exhaust components and lead to premature failure. The reason for this is that higher heat causes oxidation to happen faster than normal and also allows the metal to deform around stress points more easily.
Sorry 'bout sounding like a nerd on this, but this is actually something I learned in my strength of materials class that I remember.... :uh:

racerx
08-18-2005, 04:37 PM
that's actually where i stopped; right at the choke point.

FyreDaug
08-18-2005, 05:16 PM
I'm going to go up to my resonator.


Any pics of your wrap FyreDaug?

UPS are a bunch of idiots, I just got my package today and I was still having trouble with the sized EGR and Air Suction pipe. Hopefully getting that done soon. I have a bad wheel bearing right now, ,and someone cut me off and I hit a curb, so they agreed to pay for my alignment, but I have do my bearing first.

If only my roomates werent so lazy...

BlueBead
08-18-2005, 05:25 PM
I'm going to go up to my resonator.


IMO I'd stop at the flexpipe man; I don't think wrapping too far is going to be good for your exaust sytem.....

FyreDaug
08-18-2005, 05:33 PM
It goes from a 2" header into 2" flex, to a 2.5 "reducer" then into the resonator. Then it Y's out, and side exits before the rear tires. The resonator is the only part of the ehxuast system that would be affected by the heat. The rest is pipes

racerx
08-22-2005, 12:54 AM
ok, just a little update. i know i haven't gotten pics yet (sorry) but i thought i should share:

after a fews days, 95% of the smell is gone, and there's no smoking. i was really skeptical about how long this stuff could last, as in i didn't think it would work so well each subsequent day. however, it works just as good as when i first put it on.

i touch the top of my hood after a good hard drive, and it barely feels warm. when i pop the hood, it no longer feels like opening an oven. it's just warm in there.

aight, next time i'll have pics. ;)

lostforawhile
10-05-2006, 08:17 PM
has anyone ever though of wrapping the factory down pipe where it goes under the oil pan? whoever routed it this way was an idiot. it's hot as crap here and when you are sitting in traffic with the engine all ready hot,all that radiant heat is absorbed by the oil in the pan and transferred back into the engine. you think honda would have put a heat shield on the pan where the exaust goes near it,but for some reason they didn't . I was thinking some header tape would block a lot of that. opinions?

3gmodifier
10-05-2006, 08:44 PM
wrapping will make a 110% differance. i have wrapped about 20 differant headers. from musclce cars with v8s to my dads eg hatch. it works so well that my dad can have his car on and running at normal temp and i can grab the header with my bare hand and it's just warm to the touch. do not use the tape version that looks metalic. i does not work as well and it's tacky looking. use the fiberglass header wrap. and soak it in water befor you use it. that way you can pull real nice curves and so you dont get fiberglass on your hands and arms. hope this helps. i will try and get some pics up of my work.

AccordEpicenter
10-05-2006, 10:48 PM
meh, i dont like the way header wrap smells like burnt nachos.

mkymonkey
10-05-2006, 11:02 PM
yeah but doenst the smell go away after a day or two?

TWOLOUDNPROUD
10-05-2006, 11:21 PM
meh, i dont like the way header wrap smells like burnt nachos.
:confused: :barf:

MessyHonda
10-06-2006, 07:34 AM
meh, i dont like the way header wrap smells like burnt nachos.

damn i havent had nachos in a long time....i guess i got to stop by taco bell... sorry for being off topic

EX-ileAccord
10-06-2006, 07:42 AM
not that this has anything to do with wraping, but Im lovin that new avitar Messy

AccordEpicenter
10-06-2006, 08:15 AM
not that this has anything to do with wraping, but Im lovin that new avitar Messy

yeah i just noticed that too. Looks good man

2oodoor
10-06-2006, 08:48 AM
Lost4awhile, I agree with you, I was noticing that myself, it does get hot and keeps the oil temp up, which may contribute to some of the baked o rings I found in my A20. One thing though, if you wrap it right there where the oil filter adapter tends to leak sometimes, you will smell burnt nachos and oil ALL the time, not just sometimes with the thing randomly drips. Yea, that adapter funky shaped o ring gasket drips right on the exhaust there, so does the oil separator, the leaky ones anyway. Wrapping it may prevent it leaking after some wear, but it if does not then, ooohh that smell, cant ya smell dat smell..
I wanted to wrap my header but it looks so dang pretty , I cant decide if I want to or not.

A20A1
10-06-2006, 10:45 AM
I would recommend ceramic coat the header or downpipe and stock manifold


As fopr wrapping
The only thing you should worry about is improper wrapping and it getting soiled with oil which can burn. Some say you'll get extra metal fatigue and that is possible, thats why companies void warranty if you use header wrap. I've since decided on a professional heat coating over a wrap. Wraps are very effective though.

I also used some on my radiator pipes. DO NOT BUY SPARK PLUG COVERS! I bought some from DEI and they trapped more heat in then they were blocking from the header.


Anywho back to header wrap.
The wrap will naturally burn and decay and will smell foul... mine smelt like burnt nachos.

It keeps everytihng nice and cool, aside from the oil pan, you nottice the difference when you pop the hood after a few strong runs and don't get a woosh of hot air, plus you're not wasitng exhaust energy heating the pipes and then the air arround it. If the pipes stay hot then the transfer of heat will be less and the loss of heat from the exhaust = much more energetic exhaust gasses.

EX-ileAccord
10-06-2006, 10:54 AM
wtf crawled up your ass man? I havent even been around for over a week and its the first time I saw his new avitar. Im sure my three words are not going to affect the thread, as aposed to the fuckin story you wrote. Sorry for the rant in you thread man. roodoo if you want to reply back to this pm me Instead of "jacking" someones thread with useless shit

ChaseR
10-06-2006, 01:12 PM
Here goes again.... People taking this site waaay to seriously..

lostforawhile
10-06-2006, 01:29 PM
I don't have headers I was talking about the pipe from the bottom of the exaust manifold to past the oil pan. I want to keep heat out of the oil pan. I get the feeling that these cars were never designed to sit in traffic for long periods of time. there just wasn't this much traffic 20 years ago. there wasn't this much traffic 2 years ago.

carotman
10-06-2006, 02:21 PM
Well, any car that has the exhaust ports in the front is prone to the same problems. I don't think they never thought of the traffic since there has been traffic in Japan since the late 70's. Almost all honda 4cyl after 1980 share this exhaust setup except the later K and R series.

I agree that the oil will get heat soaked over time after sitting in the traffic. As long as the engine doesn't overheat, engineers thought this would be OK I guess. Wrapping the exhaust could be one solution. You could also weld a heat shield on the downpipe so it deflects heat away from the downpipe. That's what they did for the exhaust tunnel on the rest of the car.

MessyHonda
10-06-2006, 05:23 PM
the automatic trans has oil coolers...i would say go for it Tim. the gases on the pipe stay hoter and they excape faster....i think they call it the turbo effect....i would not do the header since it can get hot and warp the flange and head.

AccordEpicenter
10-06-2006, 07:48 PM
yeah i second the heat shield idea. They work wonders with radiant heat. And guys, come on, dont take the site soo seriously, we are all here to have fun and share our honda shit together.

2oodoor
10-09-2006, 08:10 AM
LOST sorry for the the BS, I deleted it. This is a good thread that makes a lot of sense.
I have a question though to all a20 owners, is your dipstick discolored or burnt looking at the tip. I have seen several like that and wonder now if that is the cause. I totally agree with the traffic, I dont know what happened or where all these people are working at but this area has major urban sprawl like sick.

lostforawhile
10-09-2006, 12:51 PM
yea haven't had a chance to try it yet,the kit is like 40 bucks,I keep blowing out those donut gaskets where the manifold meets the down pipe too. I hate those things. I had the mating flange machined and all new studs put in one already. I wish I could find someone who made custom copper gaskets. i know they make ones for headers that look just like the ones for our cars,but bigger. as soon as I can get that pipe wrapped I'll let everyone know the results. I wish I had an oil temp gauge so I would have some type of comparrison. the only thing that concerns me is the fact that it's so easy to scrape that center pipe on the ground. I might need a skid plate to protect the wrap. every one of those pipes I've ever seen has had a dent in it.

HondaBoy
10-09-2006, 01:12 PM
would it be worth it to wrap my new header when i install it? i got it ceramic coated.

lostforawhile
10-09-2006, 01:23 PM
would it be worth it to wrap my new header when i install it? i got it ceramic coated.the ceramic coating is supposed to help hold in the heat,I don't suppose it would hurt anything,the main problem with wrapping plain steel headers is corrosion,but the ceramic coating should prevent that. I have a ported factory manifold,I just want to keep all that exaust heat out of the oil pan.

HondaBoy
10-09-2006, 01:48 PM
yeah, i had thought about how the heat of the down pipe might affect the engine. looks like it may be something to look into. i may also try wrapping my datsun's downpipe and exhaust manifold. it gets very hot and radiates into the car pretty bad.

MECM
04-26-2007, 05:55 PM
So I am looking at getting a pacesetter exhaust. So I have a question is Wrapping the Exaust Manifold worth it? I have heard it fatigues the manifold and I have heard it helps a lot without the mention of the above so I was wondering. Worth It? Sorry for all these questions. And thanks for all your help.

ghettogeddy
04-26-2007, 05:57 PM
i was woundering the same thing ill most likely be getting a pacesetter header as well
but i kind oif want to polish it to a shine

EricW
04-26-2007, 06:12 PM
I would do it. It will cut down on the heat in the engine bay and if you take your time wrapping it will look great also. I would use the black wrap and then after you finish wrapping it use black high temp paint on the wrap. The black wrap is little more expensive but it looks better than the neutral color wrap after you paint with the high temp paint.

MessyHonda
04-26-2007, 06:16 PM
i would get the header ceramic coated

race12001
04-26-2007, 06:18 PM
i have been wandering the same question cause i wanted to do it to mine but i didnt know if it was worth it

reanimator420
04-26-2007, 06:18 PM
it keeps your engine bay cooler

guaynabo89
04-26-2007, 06:34 PM
noticeable difference in performance.

doesnt add hp but definately makes your engine respond better.

rustlude87
04-26-2007, 06:45 PM
Doesn't it hurt the head because there is too much heat inside, something I heard just not sure

But what about wraping on just the down pipe?

reanimator420
04-26-2007, 06:48 PM
make sure the header is perfectly dry when using, ive had bad thing happen like rust.....

buttaz1
04-26-2007, 07:14 PM
yea i have hered that it has negative affects like the header getting to hot and stuff and your head it self getting way to hot because that holds all the heat in even though its a good thing but there still is a bad affect to it i cant remember lol

MECM
04-27-2007, 07:05 AM
SO I am getting an over all feeling that it is worth wrapping and that there are little to no side effects?

Vanilla Sky
04-27-2007, 12:13 PM
You will have to live with a "burning nachos" smell for a while until it breaks in and burns the oils off.

I've seen some low quality headers damaged beyond usefulness after running lean with header wrap. It can happen. The good thing is that even Pacesetters are built better than the two sets of headers I've seen warped. Keep the engine running fine and you probably won't have any problems at all.

guaynabo89
04-27-2007, 12:14 PM
no rust issues on mine. I of course sprayed the whole eader and exhaust wrap with DEI's own spray paint for the wrap that seals and protects it.


I havent had to endure winters and really damp or wet climates either though.

about the holding in heat comment. thats actually good. heat keeps the exhaust velocity up. as the gases cool the slower they move. They will harm porrly made thin walled headers though. Keping all the heat in the pipes will break thin walled headers.

rjudgey
04-27-2007, 01:10 PM
I'd have it ceramic coated and not use wrapping it's not good for the head or the header and there is no performance benefit from it. Just keep the air from the intake away from header. The extra heat in engine from running header wrap would take away any small performance increase.

guaynabo89
04-27-2007, 01:26 PM
how is wrapping the exhaust manifold bad for the cylinder head? This the first ive heard of this.

benefits from exhaust wrap are better exhaust velocity and cooler engine bay from heat soak. Its known that heat wrap will damage thin walled (usually cheap) exhaust headers. So that i agree with you on. As far as benefits speaking from personal experiance it is noticeable and felt as better response.

EX-ileAccord
04-27-2007, 02:21 PM
I was thinking about doing this on my dc header. I wanted to do the manifold and the down pipe. Some one mentenoned befor that it is a really good idea because it runs right under the oil pan. Does the nacho smell take a wile to go away?

EricW
04-27-2007, 03:14 PM
The burning smell went away on mine in less than a week, of course I'm turbo so I may have been able to heat it up a little more. Either way if you just take it out for a nice long trip, half hour or hour of driving straight should probably cook the wrap enough to kill the smell.

MECM
04-27-2007, 03:30 PM
So does doing the downpipe also help?? as EX-ileAccord sugggested.

EricW
04-27-2007, 03:39 PM
So does doing the downpipe also help?? as EX-ileAccord sugggested.
Yes, It will help keep the heat in so you will have better exhaust flow.

HondaBoy
04-27-2007, 03:54 PM
yeah, wrap it. the header makes under hood temps hot as hell compared to the stock manifold with the heat shield. i would wrap mine, but i was worried about it rusting since we almost always have 60-90 % humidity levels. even though i got mine ceramic coated, i wouldnt risk it here where i live. i think a buddy of mine still has the headers on his challenger wrapped, makes it a lot cooler compared to having not heat shielding at all.

MessyHonda
04-27-2007, 06:14 PM
how is wrapping the exhaust manifold bad for the cylinder head? This the first ive heard of this.



from what i heard is that header wrap keep the headers hotter as the exhaust gazes pass by. If the car is running a bit rich they will heat up alot and they heat gets transfered to the head thus warping the head and or busting a head gasket.



if you go ahead and do it i would put a ETG just to keep track and hope you dont melt the pacesetters...they are ok...but not the best. or go with Hot Jet coating.

HondaBoy
04-27-2007, 07:47 PM
if you go ahead and do it i would put a ETG just to keep track and hope you dont melt the pacesetters...they are ok...but not the best. or go with Hot Jet coating.

you mean EGT sensor and gauge? i doubt anything like this would happen unless the engine is highly modded.

MessyHonda
04-27-2007, 07:58 PM
you mean EGT sensor and gauge? i doubt anything like this would happen unless the engine is highly modded.


yeah...i got it confused. but anyways....i think it would only happen if you were reving the car to like 6k and keeping it there for a while

guaynabo89
04-28-2007, 02:38 AM
from what i heard is that header wrap keep the headers hotter as the exhaust gazes pass by. If the car is running a bit rich they will heat up alot and they heat gets transfered to the head thus warping the head and or busting a head gasket.



If thats the reason it doesnt apply in my case.

My cars ran pig rich for years and I had someone take off the head and there was no such issue. Quite honestly the metal itself while not measuring for sure seems cooler as far as the flange goes.

:dunno:

Maybe its one of those things like how everyone says crossdrilled rotors crack yet it doesnt really happen, and the only examples people know have happened was on full out racecars. :dunno:

rjudgey
04-28-2007, 12:45 PM
It's been well proven in the U.K. in many different racing events that cars with wrapped headers have all ended up with warped heads and blown gaskets. Now yeah your keeping the heat out the bay but hte heat has to go somewhere whats connected to the header your head so all the heat goes into that but because the back half of the head on the inlet manifold side is cooled by air and fuel and the exhaust side is being super heated by your wrapped header you end up with a fucked head. Now if you live in a cold climate and you have big rad fans and maybe not runnign a thermostat you might be okay but otherwise if not you could be risking warping your head some of the cases i've read about in the U.K. they were so badly warped that the head had to be scrapped and replaced. Also i've seen dyno tests with wrapping on and off no difference maybe if you intake is bolted directly on top of your header bit if its a good distance away bugger all difference.

The only thing i can think off if your really set about wrapping your header is if you can find a company that can make a thermal barrier gasket for our headers this will reduce the heat going back into the head. I know in the U.K. there's a company that makes intake gaskets that stop the inlet manifold form being heated so you could use the same thing on the header.

But really you guys are chasing a unicorn the efforts spent here could be wasted on other things that would make you go quicker like stripping out some uneeded weight to go faster.

HondaBoy
04-28-2007, 02:11 PM
maybe an open or removed catalytic converter would solve this problem of the excess heat build up. but i guess the problem is mainly when the engine is driven hard as in a race situation which you would probably remove the cat.

guaynabo89
04-28-2007, 03:16 PM
It's been well proven in the U.K. in many different racing events that cars with wrapped headers have all ended up with warped heads and blown gaskets. Now yeah your keeping the heat out the bay but hte heat has to go somewhere whats connected to the header your head so all the heat goes into that but because the back half of the head on the inlet manifold side is cooled by air and fuel and the exhaust side is being super heated by your wrapped header you end up with a fucked head. Now if you live in a cold climate and you have big rad fans and maybe not runnign a thermostat you might be okay but otherwise if not you could be risking warping your head some of the cases i've read about in the U.K. they were so badly warped that the head had to be scrapped and replaced. Also i've seen dyno tests with wrapping on and off no difference maybe if you intake is bolted directly on top of your header bit if its a good distance away bugger all difference.
The only thing i can think off if your really set about wrapping your header is if you can find a company that can make a thermal barrier gasket for our headers this will reduce the heat going back into the head. I know in the U.K. there's a company that makes intake gaskets that stop the inlet manifold form being heated so you could use the same thing on the header.
But really you guys are chasing a unicorn the efforts spent here could be wasted on other things that would make you go quicker like stripping out some uneeded weight to go faster.

ah

so it was like I thought. I can see that happening on a race car cause keeping the revs up for hours like that would definately make a difference. In a daily driver with weekend warrior duty shouldn't have any isues though. I can't imagine a wrapped header would get any hotter than the stock cast iron exhaust mani on the 86-87.

I have to agree with you on performance benefits of it.
Exhaust wrap will not gain you any horsepower.
You would feel better response from your engine in certain situatio

MECM
04-29-2007, 12:06 AM
So it will help people like me who have short ram intake that sucks up all the heat.

rjudgey
04-29-2007, 03:44 AM
We don't use CATS here in racing and all cars before 92 didn't have cats as well lucky us!!

mike10562004
06-24-2007, 05:50 AM
actually there is a diference in hp gain if your runing short ram but thats the only one i see

coope
07-17-2007, 02:29 PM
to heat wrap or not to heat wrap that is the Question????
just got them put them on and it's nice alot raspier but ok power feel better 2
i don't have a cat so do i really need the o2 sensors

87lxiaccord
07-17-2007, 09:17 PM
If you don't run o2 sensors you'll have a pesky check engine light and probably burn more fuel then you should. I would definetly use the 02 sensors. I don't have my headers heat wrapped and I probably should especially for track days. If you just daily drive and don't race numerous times in a row I don't think you'll need the heatwrap.

evil88accordLX
07-18-2007, 06:38 AM
to heat wrap or not to heat wrap that is the Question????
just got them put them on and it's nice alot raspier but ok power feel better 2
i don't have a cat so do i really need the o2 sensors
ive read that even though header wrap helps keep the heat in the header and is good for cylinder scavanging, it can also ruin your header if under extreme conditions. while the wrap does keep the heat in, it also prevents the header from cooling properly. the lack of cooling of the header can eventually lead to blown gaskets and warped flanges. again, this would be under extreme conditions, such as a track car that is running all out for an extended period of time. and personally, i think the wrap is ugly.

MessyHonda
07-18-2007, 12:24 PM
a good ceramic coating would do the same thing also. look at the hot jet website....they say the ceramic coating lowers heat by like 80f keeping the inside of the header hotter. making it perform better.

coope
07-18-2007, 08:57 PM
thanx guys

2drSE-i
07-18-2007, 09:45 PM
jet hot or swain tech. both sites are pretty informative

A20A1
08-25-2007, 12:56 PM
The more vigorously gas molecules shake, the hotter the gas gets, and since sound cannot move faster than the velocity of gas molecules you can determine the speed of sound by the speed of molecular motion.

The speed of sound is effectively the speed of the exhaust pulse, the exhaust pulse that you want timed to your EVO to help scavenge out exhaust gases. So the hotter you get the exhaust gas the quicker a positive expansion wave will travel to the first increase in exhaust or header pipe diameter and return a negative suction wave to the cylinder. This in effect changes the tuning of the header / exhaust.

21 °C
70 °F
speed of sound is 1128 ft/s

426.6 °C
800.0 °F
speed of sound is 1740.59 ft/s

http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/tempfc.htm
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-speedsound.htm


we apply that to a general rule of thumb
Longer header tubes increase power below tq peak
Shorter header tubes increase power above tq peak

So you've taken your stock system or header and you've shortened the distance not by cutting the pipes shorter but by increasing the speed of the exhaust pulse. Generally this means you've moved power up in the rpm
however headers do fall in and out of tune through out the RPM range so it's not always certain where the power moved to.
.
.
.

However there are drawbacks, as some have mentioned above.
Dyno tuning may not offer sufficient air flow past the car to flush out heat since the car is stationary. so until I know their testing methods I wont be heads or tails over the results.

adding heat gaskets may help but thicker gaskets tend to allow warping of flanges easier.

lostforawhile
08-25-2007, 01:08 PM
one advantage i believe the wrap would have,is in lowering the oil temp,and i mean wrap the down pipe. i had a post on here before abou this,i just haven't had a chance to try it yet. since the down pipe is so close to the oil pan,and actually goes under it, it would make sense that a lot of heat gets transferred to the oil. the wrap would stop the heat transfer to the oil.

A20A1
08-25-2007, 01:22 PM
one advantage i believe the wrap would have,is in lowering the oil temp,and i mean wrap the down pipe. i had a post on here before abou this,i just haven't had a chance to try it yet. since the down pipe is so close to the oil pan,and actually goes under it, it would make sense that a lot of heat gets transferred to the oil. the wrap would stop the heat transfer to the oil.

I agree, also if you ever looked at out stock pipe Honda must have tried to reduce heat transfer by making the pipe double walled. If you cut open the stock pipe you can see two diameters of pipes one inside the other.

I wrapped before and I thought it was well worth it, just because I didn't have money for coatings.

Your thread is a part of this one lost.. I had merged a few header wrapping threads together.