Unorthodox Willing To Make Pulleys For Us

[hanginbyaccord]

Hey guys,

Once again I got a company willing to bulid us stuff, Unorthdox Racing, check out what the email said:


We would be glad to make a pulley for the early Accord, we would need 40 owners to place a $50 deposit (non-refundable once development begins) and we would need an owner in our local area to come into our Headquarters with their vehicle so we can start development work. The vehicle would not need to be left here, we only need to see it 3 times, once for initial measurement, second for initial dyno/prototype fitment and third the after dyno. Pricing would be similar to existing parts. Each interested owner needs to fill out the attached form and return to us via fax, upon receipt of the 40 forms we would charge the deposit and begin the development process.



Thanks for your request,

Respectfully,

Shawn Baumgartner

President

Unorthodox Racing Inc

P: 631.586.9525 x.16

F: 631.586.2599

unorthodoxracing.com


So PM me if you want the form emailed to you. serious inquires only please!

We need 40 people to make this happen!
List of people in :

1)ghettogeddy
2)BITESIZE
3)nswst8
4)ZackieDarko
5)Blizzard
6)EricW
7) Hanginbyaccord
8)snoopyloopy
9)CurcaoLXI
10)EricW
11)LX-incredible
12)LX-incredible
13)MessyHonda

[hanginbyaccord]

let me know guys!

[DDRaptor]

Do you have any idea on the weight/specs of the parts? Also a final price would be nice ( or perhaps an estimate)

Thanks

[hanginbyaccord]

Ill will find out.

[ghettogeddy]

id be in

[BITESIZE]

I'm in 100% sure.

[MessyHonda]

i remember chris(boba) was trying to set up a similar thing. but we could not come up with what kind of crank we should get....a under driven, stock aluminum one or with accessories like AC and PS....if they could do both it would be cool. where are they located?

[BITESIZE]

NO AC or PS

[MessyHonda]

NO AC or PS



some of us are not fortunate to have another car so they can daily drive

its nice for a DD to have some prep to it.


so stop being anal about it. i would not mind no AC but its in the middle of the crank. also its hard to find a car with a manual steering...and if i could find one it would be cool.




how about a group buy for manual steering boxes from NZ or JApan.

[ghettogeddy]

some of us are not fortunate to have another car so they can daily drive
its nice for a DD to have some prep to it.
so stop being anal about it. i would not mind no AC but its in the middle of the crank. also its hard to find a car with a manual steering...and if i could find one it would be cool.
how about a group buy for manual steering boxes from NZ or JApan.
agreed im not worried about ac but ps has to stay

[87lxiaccord]

Yeah I kinda want to keep PS. I'd definetly be in on an underdriven oem belt configuration.

[bobafett]

I would prefer if a shop owner organize this too. I think it might be easier to get the group buy done that way.

but yes my vote is for a single belt underdriven pulley, my guess is that realistically we end up with a 3 belt underdriven pulley cause most people don't want to give up their accessories.

if we could get them to agree to do 2 different parts that would be fantastic, but I am not optimistic abuot that, because we would need twice as many buyers. :)

[MessyHonda]

I would prefer if a shop owner organize this too. I think it might be easier to get the group buy done that way.

but yes my vote is for a single belt underdriven pulley, my guess is that realistically we end up with a 3 belt underdriven pulley cause most people don't want to give up their accessories.

if we could get them to agree to do 2 different parts that would be fantastic, but I am not optimistic abuot that, because we would need twice as many buyers. :)



that just mean you can get a 3 belt one and just take it to a machine shop and have them cut down 2 of them.

[nswst8]

I'd be interested.

[ZackieDarko]

im in

3GEE PS FTW! i love my PS in this car

im ok with no AC but PS has gotta stay

[snoopyloopy]

Yeah I kinda want to keep PS. I'd definetly be in on an underdriven oem belt configuration.
x2. only ones i'd be interested in.

[Blizzard]

Im in.

I dont have AC or PS anyway.



Ive got a a few crank pulleys laying around if thats all they need to blueprint one.

[bobafett]

that just mean you can get a 3 belt one and just take it to a machine shop and have them cut down 2 of them.

yeah if i want to pay twice for one part. i would rather just take an oem cp and get it shaved down and drill a bunch of holes in it. it wont be at light, but it won't set me back $300 either. :)

[MessyHonda]

yeah if i want to pay twice for one part. i would rather just take an oem cp and get it shaved down and drill a bunch of holes in it. it wont be at light, but it won't set me back $300 either. :)


2 options would be cool but yeah its going to suck since not alot of people want to give up the PS.

[A18A]

how about a group buy for manual steering boxes from NZ or JApan.
are they the same between lhd & rhd cars? i dont even know what they look like lol

i must be one of the people who would rather a/c over p/s lol

[CurcaoLXI]

Hey, what about a pulley with 3 drives, BUT with removable drives, I saw this on a Brabus edition BMW m5, I tried to get a link so you all could see this pulley, if I get the link i will post it.
If you dont want to use AC or PS you just seperate the pulleys from each other.
Please check with Unorthodox if they are able to desing and produce a similar pulley

I would defenitly want to be in this buy

[bobafett]

interesting idea. this would allow me a really easy way to mount a crank trigger wheel presumably. :)

the inner pulley (for alt/waterpump) would be a standalone pulley that could mount an additional pulley (AC/PS) to it. If that is feasable to do (and I'm sure it would make it more expensive) that really would be the ideal solution. And it would help anybody trying to convert to a crank trigger ignition system. :)

[cygnus x-1]

interesting idea. this would allow me a really easy way to mount a crank trigger wheel presumably. :)

the inner pulley (for alt/waterpump) would be a standalone pulley that could mount an additional pulley (AC/PS) to it. If that is feasable to do (and I'm sure it would make it more expensive) that really would be the ideal solution. And it would help anybody trying to convert to a crank trigger ignition system. :)

I was about to suggest exactly this. Design a modular pulley where you can put together only the pieces you need. It would also have an option for a 36-1 tooth trigger wheel so you can switch to an all electronic ignition like EDIS; with the addition of something like the following (or Megasquirt)

http://www.autosportlabs.com/megajolt-lite-complete-sensor-option-p-30.html

Cool eh? The pulley design wouldn't be that hard to work up either. I can see a design in my head already but I'm not very good with CAD (slow) and I have negative free time. Anyone here good with Solidworks?

I should also mention, I'm nearly finished with a Megasquirt + EDIS conversion. The tuneability of this setup is UNBELIEVABLE.

C|

[hanginbyaccord]

If you are in PM me for the form you must send them. we need 40 people to make this happen. the $50 deposit will come off the final price of the product. If you are in say so please! I DO RUN A SHOP SO THIS IS SET UP BY A SHOP LOL

[bobafett]

thats what i meant by my comment - i know you are a shop owner. i was the individual who contacted unorthodox a few weeks ago and started the thread about a possible group buy. :)

if a modular design is feasible and the price range is good I would definitely jump on this. However I don't think there is a chance in hell it will be ready in the timeframe that I need it. :( so I may be bailing on this and just getting a custom 1-off machined somewhere. :(

[EricW]

I'll definitely get in on this group buy. I like the modular idea, since I don't need the A/c pulley anyway just the Alt/WP and PS.

[frantik]

if you want PS won't you have to have AC since AC is between the main pulley and PS? :dunno:

[EricW]

if you want PS won't you have to have AC since AC is between the main pulley and PS? :dunno:

No it can be removed with out having to take off the PS, I have an underdrive pulley around here somewhere that i got from Johnny O that has everything but the A/c.

[MessyHonda]

No it can be removed with out having to take off the PS, I have an underdrive pulley around here somewhere that i got from Johnny O that has everything but the A/c.



see if you they can make a copy of it.

[LX-incredible]

If I can keep AC and PS, I'm in. Too damn hot here without AC. Two piece seems like a good way to go.

[snoopyloopy]

so what's the ballpark of a final price, including $50 deposit? i saw $190 before in the other thread...

[hanginbyaccord]

well everyone let me know if your in or not.

[Blizzard]

Im in.

Your probley going to need a ballpark number before to many people commit fully.

[hanginbyaccord]

Made a list of who said they where in , if your going to back out say so now!

[hanginbyaccord]

ok heres the low down on the pulleys:

Depending on what the stock pulley looks and whether you want stock diameter or underdrive the pricing will range from $180-200. We most likely only need a crank pulley.

[snoopyloopy]

well, get a final decision on what pulleys will be made before i decide if i'm in or not. i'm only interested in an underdriven pulley that keeps all accessories.

[hanginbyaccord]

I am finding out and I will let you guys know

[hanginbyaccord]

Just a crank pulley, it can run all the accessories or if you want if its more than one belt we can delete accessory drive/s.



Shawn Baumgartner

631.586.9525 x.16

unorthodoxracing.com

[BITESIZE]

Well, I'm in, but I'm skeptical since you just joined this month. How do we know you aren't going to steal our money and run?

[hanginbyaccord]

I am a business , so I wouldnt do that... we need 40 confirmed buyers first anyways. I can get in alot of trouble for scam and fraud... not only as a individual but as a business. I am not risking my reputation. I want the parts 2 so yea I would have to buy 40 sets to get just one for my car, I dont think so lol.

[MessyHonda]

hate to be off topic but can you show us some pictures of your work and what your shop does.

[hanginbyaccord]

my shop isnt making the pulleys, unorthodx is . but we are mostly a parts store, we do some customization work, fiberglass work, polishing, powder coating, and etc. check us out at www.trupowermotorsports.com

[snoopyloopy]

I am a business , so I wouldnt do that... we need 40 confirmed buyers first anyways. I can get in alot of trouble for scam and fraud... not only as a individual but as a business. I am not risking my reputation. I want the parts 2 so yea I would have to buy 40 sets to get just one for my car, I dont think so lol.
yes, if you buy them and have them in stock in your shop, i'll assure they'll move much quicker than waiting to get a group to buy here. that's the only reason we got the cam gears. nswst8 fronted his personal money to get it going and we bought the gears from him. so theoretically speaking, sure, we can all chip in, but if you actually want this to happen, i suggest you front the money yourself, order a batch, then resell them to us and on ebay. when phil did the gears, he said if we got 25 people (half the order) committed, he'd buy the whole buy then peddle the rest and last i heard, he only has six left. so maybe you could do something like that, and then ebay them or something, because i know you could get some money ebaying them.

[ghettogeddy]

yes, if you buy them and have them in stock in your shop, i'll assure they'll move much quicker than waiting to get a group to buy here. that's the only reason we got the cam gears. nswst8 fronted his personal money to get it going and we bought the gears from him. so theoretically speaking, sure, we can all chip in, but if you actually want this to happen, i suggest you front the money yourself, order a batch, then resell them to us and on ebay. when phil did the gears, he said if we got 25 people (half the order) committed, he'd buy the whole buy then peddle the rest and last i heard, he only has six left. so maybe you could do something like that, and then ebay them or something, because i know you could get some money ebaying them.
x2

[hanginbyaccord]

I dont have the kind of money. So lets see how many people can get

[BITESIZE]

So who will we paypal our money to?

[hanginbyaccord]

I have a form I email to you. give me your email.

[hanginbyaccord]

bump

[BITESIZE]

Does the money go directly to Unorthodox.

[frantik]

I am a business , so I wouldnt do that...

you say you're a business.. so are you intending on trying to make a profit from this group buy?

[ghettogeddy]

you say you're a business.. so are you intending on trying to make a profit from this group buy?
ya cause that would def be a bad move

[LX-incredible]

I could care less if someone who is willing to take the time to set something like this up makes a few bones. Before I would commit, I will need the details. There is no way that I will pay for a gear without PS and AC.

[frantik]

I wouldn't mind if the person setting it a group buy got a few bucks for their time but even a $1 profit per per pulley adds up to $40 which is kinda a lot for not that much work imo.

I mostly was just wondering though cause hangingbyaccord seems like a good guy but he's only been here a week and is already trying to lead a group buy...

[BITESIZE]

Yup, I'm skeptical.

[89T]

for $200 i would expect a Underdrive Pulley and Balancer combo....

[bobafett]

Hey if you are willing to organize it for $1 profit a gear go right ahead.

I am sure you don't realize how much time Phil probably spent making sure that people had paid, verifying address, spending time on the phone with GE, answering pms, and pointless repeated questions in the threads. Also being attacked because of any price increase and heckled if he is making a profit. Then once he has the gears he has to REVERIFY payment and addresses and take the time to send out all the parts, while fending off hundreds of pms nagging him about when the gears are going to show up and what fucking color they are.

And this is for a product that already exists. GE just has to load a file and *poof* out come some cam gears. This pulley will be a custom part, and there will have to be time spent (by somebody) verifying fitment and its going to get even more complicated if it ends up being a modular gear. People will need to test fit and make sure the car runs and it doesn't shred belts etc.

I wouldn't take this on even for $500 profit personally. It sounds like a serious pita honestly.

And this guy here IS a business, its his right to charge us any amount he wants for a group buy pulley. Its not really our business what it costs him. If we are unhappy with the pricing that he presents us then no big deal, don't buy the pulley from his group buy.

But to expect somebody to do all this organization and taking care of the car that needs to show up to their shop to do test fits and dyno tests, and just handle the whole thing, I think you would have to be a whole lot more generous than myself to do that for no profit. Seems awefully unreasonably to expect somebody to do all that work for you and not charge a markup on the gears.

Now if these were an off the shelf part that just was getting special pricing thats one thing, but this is a CUSTOM AFFAIR. We haven't done anything like this in the past that I am aware of. :)

[LX-incredible]

:werd:

[bobafett]

Also I have checked out a LOT of group buys over the years, and other than the cam gear group buy, and the pulley group buy threads (that I started a feeler thread on, and this thread) I have never in my life seen the 'cost' of the item disclosed to the participants of the group buy. It is not a reasonable request in the grand scheme of how these things work. The only reason phil or I disclosed the prices is because we are not in the business of making money selling car parts for profit.

Usually there is a reference price point. Usually the part already exists. The discount comes into play because the manufacturer can sell X (large number) units in one batch to one reseller. Sometimes it is on a low availability part like a lame jdm thing or something of that nature.

If pulleys normally cost 200 dollars, a group buy for 50 or 100 pieces minimum might cost 180 each. But only because we are getting 100+ orders at the same time. Its easier for the machine shop because they don't lose as much money when they get to make more units. Making small quantities is way more costly.

[frantik]

Its not really our business what it costs him.
well thats the thing.. if people are fronting their own money for each pulley.. it doesn't cost the group buy leader anything except their time.

It's just my opinion, but if you're depending on a group of people's money to get the buy accomplished, the least you could do is let them know where their money is going

[bobafett]

why would he risk putting up his money for 50 pulleys that will probably take 4-6 months to sell?

its doesn't make sense from a business sense to front the money for the pulleys and hope they sell. the only way that makes sense is if he sells for a profit enough to make a normal resale profit (whatever that might be).

3geez is mostly 16-25 year olds that cannot afford to just drop $200 on a moments notice on these parts (myself definitely included), some people need to save and that can take months to get the money set aside .

plus i am not even a business owner, but i consider my time to be valuable. a group buy is not doing him a service, he doesn't owe us any information. if the group buy leader is a business owner that makes his time even more valuable in a sense.

the REASON nobody makes parts for these cars is because there is not a lot of money to be made doing it. the reason there is not a lot of money to be made selling parts for these cars is because as a rule, people who buy $100-$2500 20 year old cars usually don't care to mod, or cannot afford to mod the car.

the whole point of a group buy is everybody pays in, waits 6 months and gets their parts. the point of a group buy is the company sponsoring the group buy is taking the initative of getting either a special part or a special deal. the profit they may or may not make is not our business. (imho) they are doing us a favor by even enabling the group buy process to happen.

I think we are being awefully hard on this guy. He is just trying to help us get the parts, he doesn't owe us anything, so whats the big deal here with insisting on no profit or terms of the group buy?

The VENDOR sets up the group buy and defines the terms.

lol I don't know what my problem is today, but I am thinking 3geez is being unreasonable here.

[frantik]

I am thinking 3geez is being unreasonable here.
well I'm just stating my opinion.. i don't claim to speak for anybody else. let alone all of 3geez :)


why would he risk putting up his money for 50 pulleys that will probably take 4-6 months to sell?
thats how business works.. big risk, big reward. no risk, no reward. ;)

A group buy leader who's not going to front all the money needs the group more than the group needs the leader. Someone else was also talking about setting up a group buy for these exact same parts so it's not like there's a real inherent value in simply being in contact with Unorthodox.

The time spent dealing with the company is pretty much the only thing which is worthy of being conpensated imo.. and even then I personally think it's only fair if you're using other people's money that you let them know how much went to the actual product and how much went to the leader. I don't see it as buying something retail; it's more like we're buying the product directly from the manufacturer with the aide of a liason.

but anyways we're jumping to conclusions since hangingbyaccord hasn't even responded :)

[bobafett]

lol yeah i know what you are saying. im also not trying to pick a fight etc. and i understand exactly what you mean as far as the facilitator needing the group more than the group needs the facilitator. that is true and without our 'need' of this, there would be no point in the discussion at all. but since he needs us (ie we make the terms so to speak) and he already knows he has little to gain, based on our percieved value of his involvement with the process, then why would he even bother.

sort of like how openloop just walked away last time because people were flip flopping and making the process a pita, and when someone jumped in with a promise of cheaper gears people bailed, and it wasn't worth the measly amount of money that daryl and mike would have gotten for continuing trying to setup the group buy.

the consumer wins in the group buy, so it just takes someone generous enough to facilitate the process, or one of us to do it (like phil did).

as for big risk big reward, thats not how it works when you are paying 170 for a pulley and reselling it for 200 (example pricing). now on the other hand if he got a case of these for 60 each and was selling them for 200 each that might be a risk, but he would have to buy like 10,000 of them for the price point to get that low. with a 50 unit group buy there is little value due to the small production number, so therefore there is not as much room for markup. and definitely not a room for big reward.

lets say the pulley costs 150 and shipping costs 2 times make the total price per gear 175. well if the group buy price was 180 (ZOMG $30 markup) whoever is taking the time to ship these out only makes $5x50 = $250. I dont know about you guys but I wouldn't want to waste several weeks worth of pita time for that little amount of profit.

btw i was the one that got the ball rolling on this orginally, and it looked like people were too divided in deciding on what type of pulley they wanted, so i made it clear that IMO many of us would be better off just getting pulleys machined on our own hehe.

i really WANT a20s to start to get some aftermarket support, but its going to be tough because for every one of us with $1000 burning holes in our pockets to mod our cars, there are 5000 civic kids with $10,000 to burn. so the odds just aren't in our favor. :(

[frantik]

that is true and without our 'need' of this, there would be no point in the discussion at all. but since he needs us (ie we make the terms so to speak) and he already knows he has little to gain, based on our percieved value of his involvement with the process, then why would he even bother.
all i'm saying is tell me the price of the pulley and tell me the price of the "handling fee" so I know where the money's going. i dunno i just feel better about spending my money when it's not like "oh I added the tip to the bill already" ya know :)

[bobafett]

well when i called them i was told 180-190 for 'about' 30 units. this was after speaking with joe at unorthodox. 'about' 30 could probably easily mean 50 when it gets down to it.

since we don't know details like if that price per unit includes shipping to the reseller etc, its hard to guestimate a cost to end user, but i would guess $200-$210.

thats all i really know. I understand about wanting to know where you money is going. i guess i just haven't ever seen business done that way (in automotive group buys or anywhere else really).

*warning example prices below*
if it were me I would say $200 for the gear, $15 for shipping/handling. flat out. maybe the gear costs me 180, maybe 150, maybe 195, thats not your problem. i say that i will sell you a gear for 200 and you pay 10 for shipping. thats how most (all?) group buys work that I have seen.

we may be necessary in completing a group buy, but we are not the one who should be setting the price. :(

[frantik]

i guess i just haven't ever seen business done that way (in automotive group buys or anywhere else really).

isn't that pretty much how the cam gear buy worked? :dunno: but yeah obviously if you control the flow of information you can set the price pretty easily and say take it or leave it.

[guaynabo89]

honestly guys if you want custom made stuff made for this car you are going to need to be flexible.

All the custom made parts on my car I was given a ballpark figure and dealt with it. thats the bottom line. if not nothing will happen.

[LX-incredible]

Let's stop worrying about someone making an honest dollar of of us here. If these were not a custom part, would you be bitching at Summit or IPP for taking their cut? No. If the price is right, you buy it. I would like to see a ballpark price and some details of the design before I commit. If it seems reasonable to you, go for it. If not, please don't screw it up for the rest of us.

[guaynabo89]

tell em to make this

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p6df4cb689927a3ade2f096658b086649/ef54fb37.jpg

[LX-incredible]

Beautiful. Just think, you could have one as well...

[snoopyloopy]

friggin sweet. care to take it off your car so it can get blueprinted

[LX-incredible]

Guaynabo89 are those gatorback goodyear belts?

[guaynabo89]

I think some of them are. I just remember getting their best belt and that was it. Was that sarcasm in your first post? cause you know that's a pulley on my A20. lol

As far as taking it off, I think they would need a stock pulley to go off for best results.

[hanginbyaccord]

no I dont want any profit, all the money goes to unorthodox

[MessyHonda]

so lets get the ball rolling....what does unorthodox need from us?

[nswst8]

General price range for a custom gear/pulley like this is going to be around $200. Design man hours and then materials

I say again "AROUND" plus what ever shipping is.

I would say flat out $15 shipping and handling add another $3-5 for insurance if you want it. Thats within the continental US only.

After this last group buy it was alot of work verifying addresses answering the mundane ?s over and over again all because they didn't want to read the latest updates.

In all the years here I have never had to empty my mail box for all the repeateded ?s.

So in a nut shell stop the "b@T#H$^g" and either go have one custom made on your own and see the headaches you go thru. Or thank this guy for doing the footwork.

[guaynabo89]

^^^^yup^^^^

[MessyHonda]

^^^^yup^^^^


:Owned: by the 25 post per page...unless you change it to like 50. lol

[guaynabo89]

:Owned: by the 25 post per page...unless you change it to like 50. lol


lol

go to work or something:wave:

[LX-incredible]

I think some of them are. I just remember getting their best belt and that was it. Was that sarcasm in your first post? cause you know that's a pulley on my A20. lol
As far as taking it off, I think they would need a stock pulley to go off for best results.
No, no sarcasm. It really looks great. I got those belts as well. They claimed to be anti-slip and only needed be tensioned once. Tensioned several times and they still slip when it's wet out. Just wondering if you are having problems as well.

[LX-incredible]

So have we decided on a belt configuration yet?

[MessyHonda]

lol
go to work or something:wave:



its my day off. woot. and im home alone till next thurs. so im bored. haha

[hanginbyaccord]

ok guys if you have anymore questions ask them and ill email unorthodox. If you are in , PM me your email address with the subject being unorthodox pulleys and I will email you a form for the GB. Thanks!

[snoopyloopy]

so i assume we've all decided on the design? what's it gonna be?

[hanginbyaccord]

Unorthodox will design but if you have a design we can all agree on let me know and ill let them know. I am giving you these pulleys at what I can get them for. I dont expect any profit.

[snoopyloopy]

by design, i meant is it going to be w/ all accessories, underdrive or stock, etc.? or is unorthodox choosing that for us...?

[hanginbyaccord]

Depending on what the stock pulley looks and whether you want stock diameter or underdrive the pricing will range from $180-200 - Shawn

So basically we all need to decide on one design . Otherwise they can decide.

[snoopyloopy]

i doubt it will be any less than $200. why? because they have to do r&d on it first. and i was just over at their site and their underdrive pulleys for the 4g accord and other cars are listed as $205.91. and that's for parts they already mass produce. so realistically, i don't think $250 will be out of range on this buy. gogogo

[MessyHonda]

i still would not mind...but that just means ppl need to save up a lil more.

[BITESIZE]

I don't know if I'd be willing to pay $250+ for a pulley....

[snoopyloopy]

i still would not mind...but that just means ppl need to save up a lil more.
= this group by is going to take a bit longer than the other one. and we all saw how long it took to get that one up, and we'd probably still be setting it up if it wasn't for phil. although i'd think it's in ur's interest to get it going as well. because then they can offer them for sale along with the other parts and make their own profit off it. i know there are still quite a few kids who would plunk down the money for parts on their accord if they were available. but anyway, i'm probably out of this one. b20a can use f22/h22/b-series cam and crank gears and accessory pulleys. :) just a little bit of mix and match.

[hanginbyaccord]

well if you in let me know, they told $200, the president of the company told me this , sooo ya.

[snoopyloopy]

nah, i'm out at least 'til i get my b20a. if after i get that, this hasn't happened yet, then i'd consider being in. and did he say a firm, definite $200 or "probably around" $200?

[BITESIZE]

$200 I can do.

[A20A1]

Why do you think they couldn't make both styles? just take the complete pully and for those that don't need the extra machining, take off the excess and only do the waterpump and alternator, for those that want the extra belts, they can leave the extra material and machine the grooves.

[snoopyloopy]

yeah, they probably could. but the whole point of a single belt conversion pulley is to do away with the other parts entirely. and beyond that, they may just want to make that a seperate buy completely. but here go pix for their single belt conversion pulley vs stock configuration pulley (for zc motor, but illustrates the concept).

http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/Merchant2/030610502.jpg

http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/Merchant2/0206103.jpg

i say it's high time to get the grassroots 3g thing out there and get more ppl to join to get more money flowing through for projects like these. we're dying off to the civic and it looks like that's happening faster than we can be replaced.

[hanginbyaccord]

exactly , we need to stick to one design for now. other wise we will need 80 committed buyers. you can use the pulley in he bottom and just use one belt for now cant you ?

[snoopyloopy]

exactly , we need to stick to one design for now. other wise we will need 80 committed buyers. you can use the pulley in he bottom and just use one belt for now cant you ?
yeah, that sounds like the best idea. get stock belts underdriven pulley and just not hook up a/c and p/s if you don't want to. however, those of us who do will still have the option to. and i think if you really want, you could get a machine shop to cut off the excess part and i think it would be cheaper than getting a whole custom pulley made.

[ghettogeddy]

i would want one with just ps on it ac im not worried about
but ill deal with it if its there or have it removed

[hanginbyaccord]

exactly , beggers cant be choosers lol. we just need to get 40 people commited. I know I am one!

[Blizzard]

exactly , beggers cant be choosers lol. we just need to get 40 people commited. I know I am one!


Im 2.

So long as its lighter than the OEM, I dont really care. Id rather it be a single belt-underdrive, but again as long as its lighter than stock its fine with me.

[hanginbyaccord]

Ok, cool, 2 committed buyers, I got a list of the first page if your on it , tell me if your in or out. we need 40 people to make this happen!

[LX-incredible]

If we're going with PS and AC, count me in for 2 of them!

[MessyHonda]

im down...i even got the money right now...haha

[hanginbyaccord]

Ok I pmed you all for a email address to send a form from unorthodox back to them , you can either fax it or email it. So if your in cool, if not say so . I am sorry but I cant play around anymore, this is serious. We are trying to get a product made here , so just say I am in or I am out!

[bobafett]

Good luck guys! Would be great to get something ilke this going. I think the stock option is going to get the most attention, so that's what I would reccomend.

People like me wanting single belt conversions will be on our own. :(

[hanginbyaccord]

just get the regular one and have a machine shop cut off the excess to make it single.

[bobafett]

Thanks but no thanks. Don't want to pay 2 times for a crank pulley. I already know how much it will cost to shave it down to single belt (have checked my machine shop), and if I am going to bother with all that I might as well just have it made right in the first place. Also my situation is a bit different because I will be hacking it up to put a crank trigger wheel on there. :)

Even if i wasn't going to do that I still want an underdriven single belt pulley which is going to be lighter than a underdriven 3 belt pulley that is shaved down. And it sounds like you guys want stock diamter stock belted pulleys, which is even further from what I need. (but much more practical for most people)

Also I will have to pay for balancing after this is all done with raises the cost again. :( I figure since I am going to end up having $300 into this pulley by the time I am done it might as well be what I wanted to begin with.

[hanginbyaccord]

understandable

[ghettogeddy]

i wont buy unless its at least underdrivien

[hanginbyaccord]

well I think its come to answer that everyone wants under driven correct? Depending on what the stock pulley looks and whether you want stock diameter or underdrive the pricing will range from $180-200, upon receipt of the 40 forms unorthodox will charge the deposit and begin the development process. it can run all the accessories or if you want if its more than one belt we can delete accessory drives. so you have the option now. sooo now lets get the ball rolling and get 40 people committed.

[ghettogeddy]

u should also hit up prelude power and hit some of the a20 guys over there

[ghettogeddy]

o0k so i got the little form in my email but im not giving any money till we for sure have 40 people to buy

[hanginbyaccord]

no problem

[Blizzard]

I cant get the form to come up. It says page not found.

[hanginbyaccord]

whats ur email, I will email you it.

[LX-incredible]

We should have a poll for buyers only and a list, that you copy and add yourself to, like the GE group buy thread. I will buy 2 if we go with any 3 belt pulley. Underdriven would be a bonus.

[BITESIZE]

I will only do it if phil will jump aboard and do the buy for us... nudge,nudge....he makes things happen.

[ghettogeddy]

I will only do it if phil will jump aboard and do the buy for us... nudge,nudge....he makes things happen.
yup yup i agree some one get him in here

[hanginbyaccord]

I am sorry but this GB is in control by my company, if phil wants to help us , have him PM me

[ghettogeddy]

I am sorry but this GB is in control by my company, if phil wants to help us , have him PM me
and thats what puts everyone on edge cause no company dose something for free
and the group buy is supposed to lower cost

[hanginbyaccord]

I am a enthusiast , I am building one, so I want them as bad as the next person. Good deeds go unserved sometimes but not with me.

[snoopyloopy]

I am sorry but this GB is in control by my company, if phil wants to help us , have him PM me
:thumbdn: i wouldn't do the whole "this is my buy" thing, especially since phil did just help us enormously himself on one of the few successful buys. and you're a new member, people are still watching you to see what you're made of. so unless you have the capital yourself to invest in this project, "you need us more than we need you," so to speak. it's one thing to lead the group buy, it's another thing to have your own group buy. so i'm not trying to discourage you, but you came off a little uptight right there

[hanginbyaccord]

sorry, please forgive me and you are right, we need you more than you need us. if phil wants to help us with gb he is welcome , we more less just dont want someone taking credit for something we are trying to do.

[BITESIZE]

Yah, phil come one good buddy. I trust you like a brother!

[hanginbyaccord]

i know I am a noob here and untrusted , I am just trying to help 3geez, maybe some day I can be trusted I guess.

[snoopyloopy]

sorry, please forgive me and you are right, we need you more than you need us. if phil wants to help us with gb he is welcome , we more less just dont want someone taking credit for something we are trying to do.
well, what "credit" is there to be taken? no offense, but this isn't like winning the olympics. if there's any "credit" around phil at the moment, it's because he's trusted because he invested the capital himself then kept us updated, answered our questions over and over again, and then shipped speedily and with exceptionally decent packaging. but you yourself said you guys can't put up this kind of capital at the moment and to me, that seems to be the biggest thing for "credit" in this situation.

and now that i think about it, as far as ge was concerned, it wasn't a group buy. it was a single sale of 50 cam gears. in this group buy here, would ur ship to one person then that person ship out or would ur ship directly to us seperately? and are we paying a single person who is then going to pay ur or are we paying ur seperately? the form seems to suggest that only one of us need to submit it (and the $50) then after development is complete, the rest becomes due.

[ghettogeddy]

the form seems to suggest that only one of us need to submit it (and the $50) then after development is complete, the rest becomes due.
thats what i get from that form
so everyone has to pay 50 for development or just one

[frantik]

i know I am a noob here and untrusted , I am just trying to help 3geez, maybe some day I can be trusted I guess.
just stick around over time people will be less defensive :) or get me a jdm ducktail spoiler and i'll sing ur praises lol

btw something tells me i bet if you and phil (or another generous member) might be able work something out where he helps with capital and you handle all of the headaches dealing with people. that seems like it's the best scenario as far as seeing the buy go through cause hoping for all of us to get our money together at one time is kinda tough. Most people don't want to put down any money unless the deal is going for sure.. but the deal can't go for sure until everyone's paid.. etc

[BITESIZE]

You need to start a new thread with a sticky and "important" next to it. Talk to a mod, do it the right way and you will see results. Show us the pulleys, and we'll show you the money.

[snoopyloopy]

talk to ur too about how exactly the order would be handled, etc. bc if we all don't have to pay $50 for development, i'd even throw in a few bucks. i'm pretty sure you'd much quicker find people to donate a dollar or two to the cause of development than you would find 40-50 people each to plunk down $50.

[LX-incredible]

I seriously doubt development will cost only $50...

[snoopyloopy]

I seriously doubt development will cost only $50...
well, the form says a $50 deposit is due before development begins, which is nonrefundable once development actually begins. then, you also have to sign a nondisclosure agreement, they develop, then the rest becomes due, whatever that rest is. now since they have to r&d it (three times in the shop, i heard?) instead of just pull of a file like the ge cam gears, i don't think they're doing that for free either. so i'd factor in maybe another grand for development-related costs.

[forrest89sei]

I did some background work on your ass
http://www.club3g.com/forum/good-guys-bad-guys/84990-trupowermotor-bad.html
you have been banned from there,preludepower and mx-3.com from what i could find greengoblin231-so dont come on here and try to mess with this board-alot of guys get there hopes up at anyone willing to support our cars and dish money out and I will not see that happen here



here is his ebay link for his lolescort
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4635901286&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
his ebay feedback is shitty too

These Quotes are to hanginbyaccord, Not to me, I'm a Good Boy :D

[A18A]

maybe some day I can be trusted I guess.
some day, wont be any day soon though.. i knew it was too good to be true for someone to just join 3geez and have a bunch of stuff for us

[hanginbyaccord]

ok, well I am sorry your misjudging me on my past. everyone makes mistakes. Ill just get my own parts that I have been talking about and go from there.

[MessyHonda]

:Owned2:

[A20A1]

It was worth a shot but this is such a big deal, the past will come back to haunt anyone trying to do a group buy.

[hanginbyaccord]

I understand that, I will just have to prove myself.

[snoopyloopy]

I understand that, I will just have to prove myself.
fund it yourself, very much like the other group buy. that's about the only way if you want to do a group buy and get people to trust you. bc guys probably aren't going to throw down money now at all until they see some actual, physical items. otherwise, go get custom one-off parts made for your car and when someone here feels like investing in this project, it'll happen for the rest of us...

[hanginbyaccord]

ok cool

[guaynabo89]

actually...

back in the day when we did a group buy for an order of 10 carbon fiber hoods we had to put the money up front. It was like 550 or so back then so if you guys want to see things happen......money talks.

oh and one more tip. make your payment via your checking acct visa or any other visa. if for any reason things go sour you can dispute the charges and you will have the money back in your account. Now if you just paypal through checking or money order you will have a hell of a time getting your money back.

[hanginbyaccord]

money does talk

[nswst8]

Yes, you will have to prove yourself worthy from here on out.

Guys, There is nothing that I can do right now to assist with this group buy, MAD MONEY all tied up at the moment.

At the beginning of 2008 I might be able to give more assistance.

Good work on protecting the site members "WPROCOMP".

[hanginbyaccord]

ok I will see what happens

[military mase]

As i am in a half drucken stupper i agree with guaynabo89. Don't always bank on someone having the money to front a group buy cuz that's now how a real group buy works. Yeah the last group buy phil Funded the money but the ones before that money had to be put down up front for anything to happen. Does the group buy take a while yes. It all depends on the buyers to be paitiant and the person in charge of the group buy to inform the buyer to make it happen. How many peps right now are willing to buy the pullys right now just after the cam gear buy?? You saw how long it took to get phil the money. ... I guess that's my 25 cents..or less

[frantik]

You saw how long it took to get phil the money. ... I guess that's my 25 cents..or less

i dont think he's even gotten rid of all of them yet.. and they're half the price of these pulleys

[military mase]

Just to find out, how many peps ar really wanting these pullys?? How many is it to start production??

[hanginbyaccord]

40 people needed to make this happen

[military mase]

at what price??

[snoopyloopy]

$180-$200 is the range i've heard quotes for and is also what they sell their off-the-shelf parts for. if they can match their long-established parts prices for our new parts that are gonna require a r&d, i'll be surprised.

[military mase]

But what's the price to get this in production and what is the demand for it here.

[snoopyloopy]

demand seems to be running at about 20-25 members who would actually buy any time soon. price for production is a bit dubious. it was originally said that we each need to pony up $50 and send them to unorthodox racing and say we're for the 86-89 accord group buy. however, i looked at the form we're supposed to use and it seems to me like they'd only rather deal with one person. the form from ur says $50 is due as a non-refundable deposit to get r&d started and the balance is due at the end of production. so it appears to me that if we all decided on someone to pay and have them find out how much the final total would be for x number of gears, then that person could put the $50 down for the r&d and production would commence then that same person would pay them at the end. so to answer your question in short, $50 seems to be all that it would take to get production started.

[cygnus x-1]

demand seems to be running at about 20-25 members who would actually buy any time soon. price for production is a bit dubious. it was originally said that we each need to pony up $50 and send them to unorthodox racing and say we're for the 86-89 accord group buy. however, i looked at the form we're supposed to use and it seems to me like they'd only rather deal with one person. the form from ur says $50 is due as a non-refundable deposit to get r&d started and the balance is due at the end of production. so it appears to me that if we all decided on someone to pay and have them find out how much the final total would be for x number of gears, then that person could put the $50 down for the r&d and production would commence then that same person would pay them at the end. so to answer your question in short, $50 seems to be all that it would take to get production started.

$50? No shop is going to do R&D for $50. $50 for each of the 40 people is more like it ($2000 total). Then if they eventually come up with a product the $50 comes off of the final price for each person. This way their time is still covered if the deal falls through for some reason. R&D time is expensive and risky and you can bet UR will make sure that they won't lose money on the deal.

C|

[bobafett]

demand seems to be running at about 20-25 members who would actually buy any time soon. price for production is a bit dubious. it was originally said that we each need to pony up $50 and send them to unorthodox racing and say we're for the 86-89 accord group buy. however, i looked at the form we're supposed to use and it seems to me like they'd only rather deal with one person. the form from ur says $50 is due as a non-refundable deposit to get r&d started and the balance is due at the end of production. so it appears to me that if we all decided on someone to pay and have them find out how much the final total would be for x number of gears, then that person could put the $50 down for the r&d and production would commence then that same person would pay them at the end. so to answer your question in short, $50 seems to be all that it would take to get production started.

hahahahahah ahahahahhahahaha ..........


hahahahahahaha......


but yes i'm sure they would be much more inclined to deal with one person as well. meaning that 1 person pays them their $6500 or whatever is needed for the production run, and they can get started immediately. I'm sure they hate having people peck away at a group buy much worse than we hate it.

reality is one of three things will happen:

1. somebody with $ steps up and handles this like the cam gear group buy (not very likely)
2. we all pay on time individually to unorthodox, and the group buy works out in a timely manner - like 6 months - (almost impossible)
3. people slowly start to pay, but it takes so long that the original people who paid get pissed off and demand a refund, and the whole thing falls apart (ding ding ding we have a winner).

:) thats my pessimistic outlook anyway. thats assuming we are able to decide on color/style of the gear in the first place. there probably ought to be a specific strategy so we can determine the most likely for this to happen.

[ghettogeddy]

i dont think he's even gotten rid of all of them yet.. and they're half the price of these pulleys

but he was also willing to buy 10 for himself so i think he has like 3 left witch is less then what he initially planned on having at the end

[frantik]

1. somebody with $ steps up and handles this like the cam gear group buy (not very likely)
2. we all pay on time individually to unorthodox, and the group buy works out in a timely manner - like 6 months - (almost impossible)
3. people slowly start to pay, but it takes so long that the original people who paid get pissed off and demand a refund, and the whole thing falls apart (ding ding ding we have a winner).

QFT

[nswst8]

I did not intend on keeping 10 cam gears for myself. I bought as many as I did with the hope of selling them over a period of time. There are still 2 members on a layaway plan for 2 of the eight gears left. Thats still $800 in the hole on my end.

I have no problem helping out as long as I'm not losing money. The only way that I see you guys getting this through is to pony up more dollars and share the burden, getting group buys thru.

You'll will have to commit to 2-3 each and off load the rest as you can later. There are only about 15-30 serious enough to commit. The best time to get this going would be around xmas or tax time.

I, as always will help out any way that I can.

[hanginbyaccord]

thanks

[snoopyloopy]

chuckle as you may, the form that was sent to me in the name of ur says $50 is due, development begins, $50 becomes non-refundable, remainder becomes due minus $50 deposit. i'm not making it up, it's what the form says. i get the feeling that this is a legally binding agreement here. :wave:


Part Development AgreementIt is hereby agreed that under no circumstances will the undersigned, disclose information, vital or otherwise, without prior written consent of the President of UR (Shawn Baumgartner). This includes, but is not limited to, advertising, promotions and vehicles supplied to second parties, including, but not limited to, magazines, television shows, clubs or other media whether print or electronic. It is also agreed that under no circumstances will the undersigned itself design, develop, manufacture or aid any other parties to design, develop or manufacture products, manufactured or in development by UR. The undersigned authorizes UR to charge a development deposit of $50.00 (U.S.) and understands that oncedevelopment begins the deposit is non-refundable. The undersigned also agrees to the payment of any balances due for thepart/s ordered minus the deposit. These terms are binding and shall be strictly adhered to by the undersigned unless amended, by UR andundersigned in writing. This contract is to be construed and interpreted in accordance with the laws of New York State. Governing law: This contract has been made and shall be construed in accordance with the laws of New York State;and for the purpose of all legal proceedings this CONTRACT shall be deemed to have been enacted in Suffolk county and the courts of the named county shall have jurisdiction to entertain any action arising from the CONTRACT. ____________________________________ _________________________________________________ ___________MakeModel Year ____________________________________ __________________________________________ ________ _________Authorized Credit Card Number Name on Credit Card Exp. Date Sec. Code __________________________________________________ ______ _________________________ _____ _________Billing Address City State ZIP ________________________ ____________________________ ___________ ______________________________Country (USA or Canada) Telephone Ext. Fax __________________________________________________ _____________ _________ SignatureDate _____________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _ Print Name E-Mail Address

[cygnus x-1]

chuckle as you may, the form that was sent to me in the name of ur says $50 is due, development begins, $50 becomes non-refundable, remainder becomes due minus $50 deposit. i'm not making it up, it's what the form says. i get the feeling that this is a legally binding agreement here. :wave:

Yes. And they want 40 of them. 40 x $50 = $2000.

C|

[ghettogeddy]

Yes. And they want 40 of them. 40 x $50 = $2000.

C|
it dosent say that

[bobafett]

it doesn't need to say that. UR has already established that we need about 40 buyers. the sheet claims they need a $50 deposit from a buyer. they will keep our money, and as soon as 40 people have paid, they will start building our parts. when the parts are finished they collect the rest of the money and ship out the part. (unsure if the complete order would need to be paid in full (likely) or if they send off the parts individually as people pay)

40 minimum buyers x $50 each = $2000

is this really that complicated to understand that a busy and successful company like UR is not so desperate that they would take our words for it that these parts will sell like hotcakes and do all of the R&D for $50? lmao come on guys get real.

$50 probably wouldn't even break even for them on a normal production pulley. can't even imagine what the first ever a20 pulley would cost to develop, but I know it's more than $50, and probably closer to $2000.

[cygnus x-1]

Hey guys,

Once again I got a company willing to bulid us stuff, Unorthdox Racing, check out what the email said:


We would be glad to make a pulley for the early Accord, we would need 40 owners to place a $50 deposit (non-refundable once development begins) and we would need an owner in our local area to come into our Headquarters with their vehicle so we can start development work. The vehicle would not need to be left here, we only need to see it 3 times, once for initial measurement, second for initial dyno/prototype fitment and third the after dyno. Pricing would be similar to existing parts. Each interested owner needs to fill out the attached form and return to us via fax, upon receipt of the 40 forms we would charge the deposit and begin the development process.


Thanks for your request,

Respectfully,

Shawn Baumgartner
President
Unorthodox Racing Inc
P: 631.586.9525 x.16
F: 631.586.2599
unorthodoxracing.com




Guys, read the first post in this thread.

$50 would get you less than an hour of an engineer's time. $100 an hour is a pretty safe bet. So that $2000 works out to 20 hours of development time.

C|

[snoopyloopy]

well, maybe i just don't understand the process at all. but i'm guessing more time will be spent putting parts on and off the car than necessarily spent in development itself. it looks pretty standard and simple enough to blueprint the stock pulleys, perform calculations/measurements if it's to be underdriven, load those measurements into the machining program, then machine a new pulley from a block of aluminum and put the holes in it. but getting those on and off the car will probably take a few minutes and so will dyno time (which also isn't cheap). but say someone was to front the ~$9000 that i figure it'll end up being and order the 40 gears. would that one person then only count as one order and need to deposit $2000 upfront or would they just deposit $50? and if it's indeed $50 x 40 orders, not just $50, that contract is slightly vague on that.

[nswst8]

Then if it is only $50 dollars to start the R&D, why don't you send it in and stop this mundane discussion. "BUT"

I can tell you right now w/o a doubt that you will not get one moment of R&D for a $50 dollar deposit.

If someone were to drop the $2000 they would do the R&D, you just wouldn't get a production run until the balance for the entire 40 was paid up front.

[BITESIZE]

Phil, you should get it going for us. :)

[cygnus x-1]

well, maybe i just don't understand the process at all. but i'm guessing more time will be spent putting parts on and off the car than necessarily spent in development itself. it looks pretty standard and simple enough to blueprint the stock pulleys, perform calculations/measurements if it's to be underdriven, load those measurements into the machining program, then machine a new pulley from a block of aluminum and put the holes in it. but getting those on and off the car will probably take a few minutes and so will dyno time (which also isn't cheap). but say someone was to front the ~$9000 that i figure it'll end up being and order the 40 gears. would that one person then only count as one order and need to deposit $2000 upfront or would they just deposit $50? and if it's indeed $50 x 40 orders, not just $50, that contract is slightly vague on that.

ANY time that they spend doing ANY work towards this is considered development time. Remember that the company is paying one or more of their employees to take measurements on the car, draw up CAD models, machine the prototype, test fit on the car, run the dyno testing. And don't forget materials, tooling, machine time, keeping the lights on in the building, paying the health insurance for the employees. It sounds silly but all of this stuff contributes to R&D cost.

If one person wanted to fund the entire thing then they would just front the $2000 and development would start. Then the balance would be due upon delivery of the pulleys. The contract wasn't intended for one person, it was intended for each of 40 people.

C|

[guaynabo89]

Honestly since Unorthodox will likely only end up doing a stock style alum slightly underdriven crank pulley all they would have to do is basicly duplicate the stock one. So R&D on this one is actually only about putting measurements ino a program for a cnc to read.
I highly doubt they will be able to do this for 50 dollars dont you think. At the vrey least the R&D will entail someone measuring and making a program along with test fitting with proper sized belts. I dont know how long it takes to make a cnc program but I figure this whole process would take like a week if everything went well.


Again I personally dont like unorthodox because of previous dealings with them but to get thgis done takes alot of work.

[nswst8]

Phil, you should get it going for us. :)
Have you seen the stock market, I don't expect a whole lot of mad money for 2008.

Besides, I'm still in the negative from this last group buy.

[snoopyloopy]

Have you seen the stock market, I don't expect a whole lot of mad money for 2008.

Besides, I'm still in the negative from this last group buy.
bonds ftw. and i thought you were gonna ebay the rest of them?

[cygnus x-1]

Honestly since Unorthodox will likely only end up doing a stock style alum slightly underdriven crank pulley all they would have to do is basicly duplicate the stock one. So R&D on this one is actually only about putting measurements ino a program for a cnc to read.
I highly doubt they will be able to do this for 50 dollars dont you think. At the vrey least the R&D will entail someone measuring and making a program along with test fitting with proper sized belts. I dont know how long it takes to make a cnc program but I figure this whole process would take like a week if everything went well.
Again I personally dont like unorthodox because of previous dealings with them but to get thgis done takes alot of work.

True, this would be a pretty easy job for them. More likely than not they would just rework one of their existing designs that is closest to what we would want. But it's still not a trivial amount of work.

Honestly the biggest barrier I can see to this effort is getting enough people to agree on a single design. With the cam gear the only thing to even potentially decide on was color. In this case there are several different variations of pulleys that people want.

C|