Suspension Upgrade need help and comments!

[1989AccordLXI]

Hi Guys,

Please go easy on a novice.

I am the proud original owner of a Seattle Silver 1989 Accord LX-i Coupe.

It has been well taken care of and it has been garaged almost its entire life.

It is all original/stock and still looks great except for the dreaded rear arch rust..... but will talk about that in a later thread to find options on that in this day and age.


I am planning to upgrade my suspension. After spending a lot of time in the forum and doing a lot of reading and more reading and more reading I have gotten to the point where I plan to do the following. I want to replace the original shocks (yes you heard right original shocks, the car still is just under 120,000 miles due to 10 years of a job where I was traveling every week and would not drive it for weeks at a time).

After all that reading I plan to get KYB GR-2 shocks all around. I do not need to turn this into a super sports car and this sounds like a nice price/performance option. I just want to breath a little life into a tired suspension that bounces a little more these days going over big dips. I am also considering some springs since they will have things apart? Is this a good move? What is a good option/price here? I saw an advert for Neuspeed spings for under $180, but still need installation. Are these any good? would you put them on your car for daily driving?

Is it worth doing springs? Will I get any better ride/suspension/handeling? Or should I just do the shocks?


Next up should I do a front strut/sway bar?

Added- final question for now,
Any recomendations for shops in the Chicago area? I can not do this work these days, and need a recomendation on a good honest shop, North side is best, but any one who has experise in the area I will consider.

Look forward to your comments

Thanks,

[DDRaptor]

Hey well :welcome: luckily all accords of our generations all have front sway bars and since you have an lx-i you also have a rear sway even though it's kindy wimpy but it's there.

ABout the shocks i guess the kyb will be good cause there are bit stiffer than stock. Springs I can't really help you. go to the how-to section of the site and look at legend master's threads he has done some serious r&d into improving suspensions.

good luck and welcome.

[Pico]

:welcome:
you should look into tokico shocks instead of KYB, I ran KYB with my H&R springs and I wasnt too happy with the ride, it seemed way to bouncy and soft.
What other plans do you have in mind?

[MessyHonda]

for shocks get the Tokico blue hp shocks.
I am running neuspeed springs on my car (spring rate is the same with H&Rs also) and its a very good ride. i dont have any bounce in the front. i would also upgrade swaybars but they are like 350 for the front and rear one. most of these stuff can be done with simple tools on a weekend. so get a buddy and some ratchets out and start working on it.

[87LXiR]

If all you really want to do is refresh the suspension, then KYB shocks would be a good choice, very reliable and not to firm. And if you would prefer to keep your ride comfort, then buying dropped springs may not be such a good idea. When i installed Tokicos on my 3g it really made a difference, it may have been my imagination but it felt as if there was no body lean when driving thru the twisties. The ride was a bit firm but not at all harsh.

Installing drop springs will definitly improve handling and road feel, but at the expense of ride comfort (not to drastically from what ive read). The spring/shock combo will put life into your 3g and IMO definitly worth doing considering the suspension is already apart. But the KYB themselves will improve the ride and handling of your 3G

Good luck and :welcome:

[1989AccordLXI]

Thanks for the Welcome, and for all the feedback.

It is good to hear others experince, so the Tokicos are considered a "tighter ride" than the KBY's? I have no problem with a little more stiffness. It looks like everyone says go with the Blue.

By way of comparison I have an 1999 Boxster with the sport/racing suspension, that car is only driven on nice days in the summer. When somone tells you the standard Porsche suspension is stiff and you do not really need the extra of the sport, believe them. The car is a kidney buster on anything but smooth roads. By comparison the Accord can feel like my fathers old Lincoln in comparison to the Box.

The Accord is the first car that I ever bought new by myself. It has stayed in my life now that I have a child because it has a back seat and the boxster does not. I want to make it last at least till its 21 years old and can legally drink/use ethanol (old car joke).

So The question on springs now needs to be re-looked at. If the Tokicos add firmness but are not harsh that may be all I need.

Messy, are you running Tokicos and Neuspeed -1.5 inch springs?

[1989AccordLXI]

In regards to other plans nothing much on the suspension at this time.

The muffler needs to be replaced, and considering somethign besides stock, but I like it quite. I have always like that this car was near stealth when the exhast is all in shape. Can not hear it in the car, and can not hear it out side. With that said, looking at SE-i muffler if $$ are not that much different.

The big thing is the @#$@#$ Rust on the rear quarter. I could swear that I once read that you can purchase replacement arches that a good body shop can graft onto the car. Of course if I do that it means paint.

The interior is Cherry, I never let anyone eat in the car, and always kept the windows rolled up. I have floor mats on the floor mats so they look really good for 18 year old floor mats in Chicago with all the winter muck. I have had multiple parking valets ask if I want to sell it. Course what I was told by one mechanic is that they want to take the engine out and put it in a Civic with a bunch of R parts to make it go fast. I did not realize it had cross parts with a Civic. Considering the dearth of aftermarket for the 3gs I wonder if anyone has looked at the Civic aftermarket and made a list of generally available items that can be bolted onto a 3g Accord.

Or maybe I have no idea what I am talking about........



So for now just self contained work. I have read all about grafting on SE-i rear disk brakes and doing a Franken Honda with other parts. The only other thing might be the air filter replacement does it really get you enough horsepower to notice?

Thanks for all the experince.

[MessyHonda]

Messy, are you running Tokicos and Neuspeed -1.5 inch springs?



here is a pic of how it seats.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Messybone/LX-i/DSCF2826Medium.jpg

[DDRaptor]

^that looks badass

[1989AccordLXI]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! That is what the car is "supposed" to look like.

The finish looks good on my car, but the @#$#@$ midwest winters has done a job on the rear quarter panel rust. not really bad, but it bugs the hell out of me.

[frantik]

Tokicos and Neuspeed -1.5 inch springs?

only warning bout this combo is once it settles the rear might look lower than the front

[Pico]

only warning bout this combo is once it settles the rear might look lower than the front

same thing with the H&R's :(

[frantik]

yeah arent nuespeed and h+r the same thing? i based my statement off of yours and messys experiences

[MessyHonda]

yeah arent nuespeed and h+r the same thing? i based my statement off of yours and messys experiences



yes when i was looking up the info they both have the 1.5 inch drop and the same spring rate....maybe they are just rebadged springs.

[cygnus x-1]

It's very unlikely anyone wants to pull the engine out of it and put it in a Civic. The "A" engines have virtually zero aftermarket support and most tuner types hardly know they even exist. Besides, there are 4789534895735892345678967829563478 old Accords at every junkyard on the planet so if they could easily find an engine to build up.

As for the suspension, as long as the springs aren't sagging I would just keep them; unless you want to lower it or want it significantly stiffer. New shocks will help a lot. Also have all the bushings and ball joints checked out. You may need some replacements.

BTW, I'm up near Waukegan. Nice to see another local around these parts. :wave:

C|

[MessyHonda]

It's very unlikely anyone wants to pull the engine out of it and put it in a Civic. The "A" engines have virtually zero aftermarket support and most tuner types hardly know they even exist. Besides, there are 4789534895735892345678967829563478 old Accords at every junkyard on the planet so if they could easily find an engine to build up.

As for the suspension, as long as the springs aren't sagging I would just keep them; unless you want to lower it or want it significantly stiffer. New shocks will help a lot. Also have all the bushings and ball joints checked out. You may need some replacements.

BTW, I'm up near Waukegan. Nice to see another local around these parts. :wave:

C|

i remember on ebay some one put a a20 engine into a 94 civic.....anything can be done with time and knowledge.

[1989AccordLXI]

Hi C,

Thanks, it is good to see some one local, seems like 4 out of 5 people on here are from So Cal. Do you know know any mechanics or shops in these parts.

On the sage thing, can you define it or give me some things to look for as indications? I have noticed when the car is sitting on a flat surface the drivers side front seams to dip a little lower that the right side.

Ok, I understand what a spring does and what a shock does, but not familiare with taking them off. When replacing shocks, do the springs get taken off the car?


Question for those with the -1.5 springs. Do you loss 1.5 of ground clearance on the lowest point of the car? Being in Chicago I worry about snow. The car is great in the snow with the Front wheel drive, and can pull it self through snow that comes up to the bottom. I do not want to loose much in the way of clearance.

Anyone know anything about the Suspension Techniques springs? They are only 1.0 and may not provide as much enhanced handeling as the H&R or Neuspeed.

Thanks

T

[military mase]

Well if your talking about An A20A in a civic, the only person that could be is Jason Budd who did the b series tranny plate for the A20 motor and he did swap it to a civic.

[1989AccordLXI]

What is up with Strut tower bars? The info in the FAQ on suspension and in the thread Strut bars and sway bars, where can I buy them by Mike89Accordcom looks a little out of date. When I try to follow them and look for items for my 3gs I am not finding anything. Maybe I do not know how to look, but.... DC sports has a nice one and a nice price, but not available for my car I am told by the web site.

Any one have susgestions on this? Should I just stay away from strut tower bars. I have seen them in multiple pictures of people engine compartments and it looks like a very easy install for the benefit. It looks much easier than replacing the lower front antisway bars.

frantik, did you purchase the strut bar in your pics "stock" or was it a local custom job? Just would like to know if I can get something like that online and install it myself.

[Pico]

the bars were made by a member on the forum, not too sure if he's still doing them but here's the post and maybe you can send him a PM and see if they are still available
StrutBar (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=646086&postcount=28)

[w261w261]

Hi C,
Question for those with the -1.5 springs. Do you loss 1.5 of ground clearance on the lowest point of the car? Being in Chicago I worry about snow. The car is great in the snow with the Front wheel drive, and can pull it self through snow that comes up to the bottom. I do not want to loose much in the way of clearance. T

Yes, you lose 1.5" of clearance. In most cases, you also lose 1.5" of suspension travel, unless you get creative with the mounts. That's why just cutting the springs is not a good idea. The lowering springs are progressively wound, meaning they have more resistance the further they're depressed. If you look at them, you can see the difference in the spacing of the coils at the middle and at the end of the spring.

I've been through all this with my SE-i. What I would strongly recommend is that you do not try to reinvent the wheel, in terms of shock/spring combos. It gets expensive for redo's (I paid about $100 a corner for labor). If you get a shock that is too "weak," then the car will bounce too much (you're looking for an initial deflection, then a return to flat without a secondary reaction). If you have a shock that is too firm, then the car will ride like a brick. I got Eibach Pro-kit springs (1" drop) and Bilstein HD shocks. I paid the $400 in labor to have it all put on, and with great anticipation hit the road. The first bump the front end started pogo-sticking. What disappointment. I didn't know that the Bilsteins on the front needed to be firmer, because the springs were firmer (rears were ok, because the Eibachs back there are actually a little less firm than stock). The Bilsteins, unlike the (now unavailable) Koni's are not adjustable....they have to be revalved at the factory. But I couldn't just jack up the car and wait for a couple of months, so I bought another pair and had them revalved (100/300). Got them back, had them installed, and found that I had missed the mark again, but just slightly. Sent back the first pair to the factory for revalve to 115/340, which was, and is, perfect. I think I really nailed it. The car handles great, no crashing over bumps, high speed sweepers are really surprising compared to stock. I am, at last, a happy camper.

BUT, look what I went through. If you want to go the Bilstein/Eibach route, I can say you'll be happy with my combo. Others here have also experimented, and have come up with their own solutions. I can't speak for them, and I've never driven another 3G Accord except for mine, but perhaps there's a car in the Chicago area that a member would let you drive to see for yourself. If you're ever in CT you can drive mine.

I guess I should say that I am somewhat fond of my car, so it has to be "right" (I drove to Montreal this past February because Honda of Canada had the last bronze-tinted SE-i windshield in North America). So even though it cost another $150 plus shipping plus labor to get the shocks revalved and installed again, the difference to me between the 100/300 and the 115/340 was more than sublime. You might not be so picky.

[frantik]

frantik, did you purchase the strut bar in your pics "stock" or was it a local custom job? Just would like to know if I can get something like that online and install it myself.I bought it from Justin86 as Pico said :) Once in a while he makes a few sets and sells them off.

I think theres a seller who has a full set for sale check out the for sale section

[frantik]

here i summarized everything for the nubs :D

http://3geez.wiki-tv.com/How_to_upgrade_your_suspension

[w261w261]

here i summarized everything for the nubs


It was an interesting read. Good that you put it together. Since I have the Eibach springs, and I've read about how others complain about the rear end being too firm, I feel happy that mine is actually less firm than stock. It seems to stand out in the list, but in concert with the Bilsteins, it works, and there's no sense that things are too soft back there.

[Legend_master]

Wow, nice to see someone that actually appreciated the car when it first came out. The fact that you have a boxster and you still drive your 3gee is admirable. I agree that you should stick with the stock springs and get some Tokicos, due to the fact that you have to worry about snow. Also I highly recommend replacing the bushings and ball joints while you are restoring the suspension. If you want your honda to ride like your porche your could do this (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59533) :devil: . Welcome to the forum

[frantik]

some day those D2s will be mine.. SOMEDAY!!!!!

(or i'll take some koni rears too :kekeke:)

[cygnus x-1]

Hi C,

Thanks, it is good to see some one local, seems like 4 out of 5 people on here are from So Cal. Do you know know any mechanics or shops in these parts.


I do all my own work these days, but there is a shop in Gurnee that I've been to in the past. It's one of those old time family run shops that has been in the same building since like 1920. It would be a trek though if you're in Chicago.




On the sage thing, can you define it or give me some things to look for as indications? I have noticed when the car is sitting on a flat surface the drivers side front seams to dip a little lower that the right side.


That could be tired springs then. On a level surface measure from the ground to the bottom of the wheel arches. The distance should be the same left to right.



Ok, I understand what a spring does and what a shock does, but not familiare with taking them off. When replacing shocks, do the springs get taken off the car?


Yes. The shock is inside the spring like a strut. So you remove the spring and shock as a unit and then separate them. Conceptually it's pretty simple but it can be a big PITA depending on how rusty the bolts are.


C|

[1989AccordLXI]

Hi All,

Checking back in..

Well the winter has been hard on the old muffler. I was trying to get it to last to spring, and then get a new one that would not be destroyed by salt instantly. But last week hit a pot hole, not even one of the soul sucking, car swallowing ones, and the b pipe snaped, just in front of the muffler. The exhast got a little loud for my liking, could have been the rusted crack half way up the b pipe. Replaced with stock in effect, sounds so quite now, its just the way I like it. I would even swear that the car seams to have more umff when accelerating, could a functioning exhast be better for HP and flow than a rusted out one with holes? I was not ready to do a cat back replacement.

Luckily I had been planning to do the suspension and had called a shop that carried tokikos and asked them to order the shoks and springs. Shop name is One 6 Motorsports, there is some nice noise on a civic forum about them. www.one6motorsports.com. They had the basic suspension parts, and got a muffler to do inaddition. It started out simple and as such things go got a little more of a rebuild than I expected.

Tokiko blue shocks
New H &R -1.5 springs, the original stock were a little saggy in one corner .....
....... and as long as the suspension is apart........
While trying to take the old shocks and springs apart ran into problems getting things apart, can you say 20 year old bolts rusted together, and not moving.
So those got cut and needed to be replaced, after they got those off they called and reported that all but one of the bushings were completely toast. So I said fine go ahead and replace all of them that need it. ........ and another as long as the suspension is appart.....

Later that day as they were going over everything they called me back and said you know that clicking noice when you turn the steering wheel, I sayd yeah been there as long as I can remember. (I have owned the car since new) The CV boots have big cracks in them and the CV joints are in bad shape, they tell me. I aks what now. Replace both front axels and new boots and seals, ..... as long as the suspension is apart...

Well I picked the car up yesterday afternoon, and it drives great. A little stiff, but it is 20F here in Chicago and it has brand new shocks and springs, rather than 20 year old ones. Should it soften a little with seating and break in over the next few months? The steering is great!!!! I would never have though that the cv was in that bad of shape. I can feel that steering wheel is a little more responsive and the handeling is crazy good compared to before, not up to the Boxster, but do not want it to be I want a little more comfort and softness than that.

Now to decisions on what to do in the spring to give her a little more power.
Nothing crazy and to expensive, if I can add a few hp it might be good.

New Airfilter, do the K & N standard replacements make a difference?
Or should I just get one of those short ram air cone things?

Will new spark plugs and wires make any difference?
Any way to test FI's to see if they are good, will replaceing them make a difference?

Thanks for all the pointers as I have gone along,