DIY: Front 1988-1990 Civic struts.

[Legend_master]

So I was reading through Vectors thread on his b18 swap (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59141). His suspension setup was brought up, and helped lead me to a way in which we could run the civic struts without having to do any major modification. The problem up until now was that either the top hat had to be re-welded, or the lower piece of the strut must be modified (as I did in this thread) (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47746&highlight=civic+struts) . With the setup Vector is running you would only need parts from a hardware store.

Whats required
1. 1988-1990 Front Civic struts (87's might work, but I can't verify that)
2. 8 - 4" carriage bolts that are 1/2" thick. (http://www.skyimager.com/images/Mirrorlock-2.jpg)
3. 4 - 86-89 Front Accord Top hats.
4. 9 - Primary Nuts that fit the carriage bolts. (http://www.global-b2b-network.com/direct/dbimage/50300666/Flange_Nuts.jpg)
5. 9 - Secondary Nuts that fit the carriage bolts. (http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture97/bonu/product3-s.jpg)

Step 1: First you must remove the studs from all 4 top hats
Cut and press out the hat studs, drilled out the holes so the carriage bolt fit nicely(didn't have to do anything to the fenders of the car), most carriage bolts i believe are flat on the end... so they wont obstruct the rubber washer to much... i had to cut some rubber away from the washer to make it fit properly.. but once i did it worked like a dream. Make the holes on the two bottom hats slightly bigger, because the bolts used are square after the thread ends.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DIY/01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DIY/03b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DIY/03c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DIY/04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DIY/05.jpg

Little note from Vector on this one

its easier to cut the threaded part off instead of pressing the whole thing through... i broke a vice trying it that way initially.

Step 2: Mount the lower top hats to the chassis
Don't use any of the strut bushings, or washers that hold the strut to the top hat. Use the carriage bolts to hold the top hat in place. Use one of each kind of nut on the top of each carriage bolt.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DIY/07.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DIY/08.jpg

Step 3: Installing the second top hat
Place one of each kind of nut onto the carriage bolts, then place the top hat ontop of those. Now you must place 1 more of each kind of nut ontop of the top hat. This is how you adjust the hights for the strut travel. These bolts need to all be even.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DIY/09.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DIY/10.jpg

Step 4: Mounting the strut
You can now mount the struts in the same manner as you would regularly. The only difference would be that you are mounting the strut to the top-top hat and not the bottom one.

Here is how Vector installed the struts.

put the top hat on.. put 2 nuts again on each bolt... flanged first then secondary.. do not tighten these.. as you will need to adjust the suspension once the shocks are in.

this is kinda a tricky part... i disconnected my sway bar to make this easier. i had my car on jack stands so i had the jack free...you will have to disconnect the upper control arms.. i just undid the 2x 17m nuts and let the arm fall out..
might not need to do this if your sway bar is not connected.. I'm not sure as mine already was.

so put the shock and spring in... no need for spring compressors here just keep the jack under the lca so it doesn't drop and pull the cv apart.. and seat the spring... make sure the shock shaft goes through the hole of the bottom hat... jack it up alittle so it stays there. go up top and put the washer and bushing for the bottom of the hat.. jack it up some more so it pokes through the top of the hat enough to get the top bushing and washer with nut on, nut the uca back in, you are done for that side, repeat for other side, reconnect sway bar and put front wheels on.. take off jacks... tighten shock nuts and set the hats to the desired level.

Warning: if you jack up the lca to much.. it can cause the car to become unstable on jack stands....i tightened up my shock nuts when the car was siting back on the ground. also.. i dont know if there are any side affects of the shock fully extending rapidly, idont know if it will damage it over time or not .. I've been pretty abusive with my oem shocks with this mod since the cars been back on the road and it still feels as stiff as the day i conjured this contraption.

This thread will be updated as I work with vector a little more. I already asked him if it was ok to make this thread, so we are all good there :thumbup: . Thanks again to Vector, and this really helps open a window for front suspension options.

[ghettogeddy]

so u wouldent even need to raise it up that hogh but what about an inch

[Legend_master]

so u wouldent even need to raise it up that hogh but what about an inch

About an 1 1/2". You could also do the lower pitch fork mod, and allow you to lower the car even more. Also if you did my mod, vectors mod, and the pitch fork mod you could slam the hell out of the front :devil: .

[Cheeseburger]

wicked!

[Vector]

the idea of this mod was to use oem shocks with drop springs... and now its evolved into something much more useful. you can offset the shock by how much you lower the car... reason for this is so that over time you dont destroy your shocks in a matter of months.. as far as it knows.. its riding stock.

so you put in 2.5" lowering springs in... you bring the hat up 2.5" measuring from the top to bottom centers before put it together. bam... the shocks in its supposed to be comfort zone..

[MessyHonda]

man that look good...does that mean we could get civic konis? and do the mod.....my front end is good right now but i will need better shocks down the road.

[ghettogeddy]

but now we can use civic adj struts so ur basic strut mod turned into a big thing lol

[ghettogeddy]

looks like ud be able to use a strut bar still as well

also after thinking about it it could help with strut bars for carbs without the civic box install

[Vector]

glad i could help... i swore to myself when i found this site and started working on my 3g that i would make something useful for you guys..


looks like ud be able to use a strut bar still as well

yes.. only if you run it in between the nuts to the fender... and nothing higher. or stuff WILL break.

[Legend_master]

glad i could help... i swore to myself when i found this site and started working on my 3g that i would make something useful for you guys..


Lets not forget the rather simple b18 swap :thumbup:

[Vector]

Lets not forget the rather simple b18 swap :thumbup:

yea it only took a few months to figure that i had a perfectly good mount point free on the car that i could use easily.. thats gonna be a awesome to try to explain that one .:cheers:

[AccordB20A]

heres one for ya... i have koni yellows all round from a ba5 lude in my accord.. fronts lower car like 30mm but the rears are way longer, they actually raised the car at the back so it looks funny, if i did this mod on the back and used it to compress the spring to get more lowering would it work?? or would that stuff the shock having it hardcore topped out all the time??

[Legend_master]

heres one for ya... i have koni yellows all round from a ba5 lude in my accord.. fronts lower car like 30mm but the rears are way longer, they actually raised the car at the back so it looks funny, if i did this mod on the back and used it to compress the spring to get more lowering would it work?? or would that stuff the shock having it hardcore topped out all the time??

He did a different mod in the rear, but it is similar. We are going to make a thread completely separate for the rear.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/Hosting%20pictures/000_0182.jpg

[2oodoor]

innovative idea
how do you tie in the cross bars with that rig to stabilze the strut towers?
The hardware is rough looking but, well it gives me an idea to maybe make a cross bar with tubes welded in the ends to create the space.

[Vector]

innovative idea
how do you tie in the cross bars with that rig to stabilze the strut towers?
The hardware is rough looking but, well it gives me an idea to maybe make a cross bar with tubes welded in the ends to create the space.

what like a strut tower bar?... should bolt on exactly the same as it would with the stock hats. only diference is... if your making your own now you can make it thicker since theres alot of thread to play with... another thing to.. for the rear brace.. as you can see it will be dificult to get it to sit flat on the against the wheel well as its uneven.. so i'm contemplating that if you make the end pieces out of 3mm thick steel or thicker.. shouldnt be a problem.

only thing i'm questioning tho.. is do we really need it?.. does the body on these cars flex that much when hard cornering is needed?.. if so i will go out right now and make one for my car lol.

[Vector]

heres one for ya... i have koni yellows all round from a ba5 lude in my accord.. fronts lower car like 30mm but the rears are way longer, they actually raised the car at the back so it looks funny, if i did this mod on the back and used it to compress the spring to get more lowering would it work?? or would that stuff the shock having it hardcore topped out all the time??

you would virtually have no suspension travel in the back... i dont think its a good idea... if you used diferent springs with those, then you wouldnt have to compress them that way and you'd probably could do use them no problem. pulling on the strut for that long cant be good for it anyway.

[BITESIZE]

Does the hood still close?:)

[Vector]

Does the hood still close?:)

yes :cheers:

[2oodoor]

only thing i'm questioning tho.. is do we really need it?.. does the body on these cars flex that much when hard cornering is needed?.. if so i will go out right now and make one for my car lol.

Yes when you put it to the limits, which you never know when that is going to be !!
Ive seen photos of SCAA racing and dirt track, rallys.. where the whole corner of the cars is lifting off the ground from the turns, dips or what have you. Of course some of those could be BECAUSE the tower are tied together.. lol
Things like the bars and roll cages really make a difference in the ridgidity of the unibody and helps you tune the suspension for more consistency.
I like this thread and the ideas, it is a lot easier to make the subframing to make these strut parts work than it would be to make the struts themselves..(duh) and when they break you can just put the new one in without all the fab work again.

[Legend_master]

Yes when you put it to the limits, which you never know when that is going to be !!
Ive seen photos of SCAA racing and dirt track, rallys.. where the whole corner of the cars is lifting off the ground from the turns, dips or what have you. Of course some of those could be BECAUSE the tower are tied together.. lol
Things like the bars and roll cages really make a difference in the ridgidity of the unibody and helps you tune the suspension for more consistency.
I like this thread and the ideas, it is a lot easier to make the subframing to make these strut parts work than it would be to make the struts themselves..(duh) and when they break you can just put the new one in without all the fab work again.


That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw his idea.

[BITESIZE]

The only draw back is, it looks like crap. I guess you could make a plastic housing to go over top of them.

[Vector]

i race the car on a consistant basis, i'm not to worried what it looks like as long as it moves..

[MessyHonda]

The only draw back is, it looks like crap. I guess you could make a plastic housing to go over top of them.



who cares what it looks likes i would that that over blown tokicos any day.

[Vector]

i'm gonna clean up the hats and repaint them... that will make it look nicer... i wouldnt want to cover them up.. i like it when people go "wtf is that" haw

[Legend_master]

THanks to vector we have pics now :cheers: .

[A18A]

could i cut my springs and make it safe by doing this? :kekeke:

(i am kinda a suspension newbie)

[Vector]

could i cut my springs and make it safe by doing this? :kekeke:

(i am kinda a suspension newbie)

believe it or not... yea you could... they will stay tightly seated when cornering heaily... i dont ecourage it since the spring rates will be all messed up..

i did that with my se-i accord... i'm not doing it again, .. gonna put the sportlines in that car instead. i did this soley as a test... and i raced it like that to... works great. if you dont mind the car bottoming out everynow and then :Owned:

cut springs dont stiffen up enought when excursion happens... there like over speed bumps.. the car will bottom out. with stiff shocks... you could probably avoid this.. but your just putting more strain on them.

[ghettogeddy]

function over form

[Oldblueaccord]

Im thinking aluminium spacers might be better in the long run but I guess the stress would still be on the bolts.SOmething along th lines of the hat maybe in a triangle or something similiar. Luckily our cars the strut is just a shock it doesn't control the wheel like Macphersons do so it not much an issue.

The only thing I could add is maybe use regular bolts since carriage bolts are usually not rated ? ? Grade 8 would be nice. 1/2 inch is a good thing.

Vector I assume you got an adjustable strut so the car can be leveled and corner weighting can be done.

Where AZmike in all this.....



wp

[Oldblueaccord]

what like a strut tower bar?... should bolt on exactly the same as it would with the stock hats. only diference is... if your making your own now you can make it thicker since theres alot of thread to play with... another thing to.. for the rear brace.. as you can see it will be dificult to get it to sit flat on the against the wheel well as its uneven.. so i'm contemplating that if you make the end pieces out of 3mm thick steel or thicker.. shouldnt be a problem.

only thing i'm questioning tho.. is do we really need it?.. does the body on these cars flex that much when hard cornering is needed?.. if so i will go out right now and make one for my car lol.

about chassis flex....



http://www.xvmotorsports.com/media/Chassis%20Stiffening.wmv

see if that video works. Not our cars of course but its a unibody. Watch the masking tape.

Another way to prove it is jack up your car on the jacking point and try and open the door either one see how much flex there is.


wp

[Vector]

Im thinking aluminium spacers might be better in the long run but I guess the stress would still be on the bolts.SOmething along th lines of the hat maybe in a triangle or something similiar. Luckily our cars the strut is just a shock it doesn't control the wheel like Macphersons do so it not much an issue.

The only thing I could add is maybe use regular bolts since carriage bolts are usually not rated ? ? Grade 8 would be nice. 1/2 inch is a good thing.

Vector I assume you got an adjustable strut so the car can be leveled and corner weighting can be done.

Where AZmike in all this.....



wp

if you can break a carriage bolt by pulling on it vertically... i'd be surprised... let alone 3.. they are pretty beefy.. i thought about that to... but since it was all i could get initially and didnt know exactly what i needed.. thats what i started out with.

no... sensatracs oems.... with sleeved coil overs.

thanks for the vid to btw... if i do a brace.. i will definitly do a 3 point over a 2 point.

[2oodoor]

Lots of feedback.. :welcome:

I was concerned about the gradeing of the bolts as well, I think you can find that more selection of that kind of thing at mill supply vendors.
That particular config could be dolled up by using alum conduit and a DIY anodizing kit.
Unibody flex, try jamming your fingers in between the door rubber and door
while you are driving, feel the pain.. lol
As far as covers go, there are some OEM various other brand cars applications around that I have seen that had huge 'decorative' covers that could be found at junkyards. For that matter, just get a large slurpee in the plastic cup and cut it :rice: ,, no really.. lol

[bobafett]

http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=647/CA=5

hey guys, what do you think about buying something like this, raises the shock 24mm (.9") and we could EASILY redrill the top mount to use 3 holes instead of 2 (or redrill our shock tower to use 2 holes).

what Do you guys think?


EDIT: or maybe something like this too?
http://www.daveregis.net/bimmer/GroundControl/rear_install/index.html

[Legend_master]

http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=647/CA=5

hey guys, what do you think about buying something like this, raises the shock 24mm (.9") and we could EASILY redrill the top mount to use 3 holes instead of 2 (or redrill our shock tower to use 2 holes).

what Do you guys think?


EDIT: or maybe something like this too?
http://www.daveregis.net/bimmer/GroundControl/rear_install/index.html

Definitely usable, but you have to make sure the diameter of whatever car you get those from is not larger then ours. Also I would modify the tophat and not the body of the car IMO.

[2ndGenGuy]

So, this mod doesn't really give you any extra suspension travel correct? It will just keep you from bottoming out the struts. If the base of the strut is still longer, you're still losing suspension travel when the top of the strut base hits the lower "top-hat" under the car... You'll still be hitting the bumpstops a lot won't you? You just won't bottom out the strut itself...

[Legend_master]

So, this mod doesn't really give you any extra suspension travel correct? It will just keep you from bottoming out the struts. If the base of the strut is still longer, you're still losing suspension travel when the top of the strut base hits the lower "top-hat" under the car... You'll still be hitting the bumpstops a lot won't you? You just won't bottom out the strut itself...

It would give you factory civic suspension travel. With the proper struts, and half cut bump stops you will never hit bump stops. There's no point in doing this mod unless your going to use some high performance struts.

[Vector]

It would give you factory civic suspension travel. With the proper struts, and half cut bump stops you will never hit bump stops. There's no point in doing this mod unless your going to use some high performance struts.

yea it be nice if i could afford some nice shocks.. unfortunatly i cant so i did this for the oems plainly so they would last longer and i perposly wanted to limit downward suspension travel..

i'm using tighter springs now so its much much better, also as far as the bump stops go.. i'm using them still. i actually added a rubber bushing so they wont bottom out... before the control arms did hit the fender...

autox in vernon yesterday, gtech'd my runs managed to hit around 1g in the corners. as far as tires, i think they are 205/50/15 Falken Azenis Rt615's. i will pics up of that soon.

[2oodoor]

limitiing downward travel of the body is what I need, without sacrificing ride quality or inducing unnecessary body roll in the process

that is good news about your run at autocross

[bobafett]

yuck so i called koni and discussed my options for modding accord specials to become sports. it will run me about $1200 minimum, plus shipping both ways. and another $108 from ground control to get the koni kit. so in the intrest of not spending $1500 on struts and springs it looks like I too will be further investigating the coilover method.

[Accordtheory]

so you put in 2.5" lowering springs in... you bring the hat up 2.5" measuring from the top to bottom centers before put it together. bam... the shocks in its supposed to be comfort zone..

I just want to point out that this is not accurate. The spring/shock's connecting point on the lca is closer to the lca's axis of rotation than the steering knuckle. In other words, if your spring itself was 2.5" shorter, your car would be lowered a lot more than 2.5".

I want to know how much the hat can be extended before something else bottoms out, like the upper control arm hitting the tower like in a civic. My friend's civic had holes in the strut tower from that. And as previously mentioned, what about the top of the strut itself hitting the "lower hat"? Will it fit through it? And what is with there being 4 hats? Is each hat 2 pieces?
I think I'm going to go look at my car..

[Accordtheory]

Well, I guess I'll be answering my questions myself whenever I get the gc coilovers.

[2oodoor]

Well, I guess I'll be answering my questions myself whenever I get the gc coilovers.

I have not seen Vector post in a while, good question though. Probably best answered by looking at your own set up,
Vertical travel may be different from one car to the next, were talking 0 to 2.5 inches clearance before upper control arm contacts something, variances in spring rate, wear, strruts valving/condition..blah blah blah

[Oldblueaccord]

I would like an update from Vector on this :cheers:




wp

[mushroom_toy]

Few pics of the Vector mod that I did. Mine is modified a good bit, but its basiacally same thing. Also you can knock out the studs on the tophats without cutting em off. It is actually easier to knock them out than to cut them off and drill em out. Also You cannot run a front strut bar UNLESS you mod the strut bar around the tophat mod. Also your coil might have to be relocated, mine did.I think im only the second 3gee to do this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/JubeiMunchCurry/More%20Car/DSC06661.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/JubeiMunchCurry/More%20Car/DSC06663.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/JubeiMunchCurry/More%20Car/DSC06665.jpg

[Legend_master]

Few pics of the Vector mod that I did. Mine is modified a good bit, but its basiacally same thing. Also you can knock out the studs on the tophats without cutting em off. It is actually easier to knock them out than to cut them off and drill em out. Also You cannot run a front strut bar UNLESS you mod the strut bar around the tophat mod. Also your coil might have to be relocated, mine did.I think im only the second 3gee to do this?
]

awsome, does it seem very strudy? did u notice a difference in performance?

[mushroom_toy]

awsome, does it seem very strudy? did u notice a difference in performance?

Yeah they seem plenty stiff to me. SO far ive put a good bit of stress on em and no problems. Handling got a little better, but I can attribute that to the lowering/camber. But the best thing is full shock travel..it is god sent. XD

[rustlude87]

For the people who have done this, what size drill bit did you use on the top hats to get the carriage bolts through?

[import racer]

You would drill the hole to match the bolt size.