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View Full Version : First Gen Civic with modified 81 Accord Motor



redr2
10-04-2007, 09:55 AM
Hey guys, glad I found the site. I thought I would share my '78 Civic with am 81 Accord motor running dual carbs, header, cam, ect.

I recently blew the head gasket and am looking at building up an 81 EK motor with a Canadian EL head (no CVCC!!)

I am also looking for a new header as mine has seen better days.

Here is my car:

www.roadsailing.com

Here is a video of my car:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c366c7b4-c406-437c-b301-bdc3477068e9.htm


- Kurt

redr2
10-04-2007, 10:01 AM
I tried to upload pic...

2ndGenGuy
10-04-2007, 10:44 AM
Sweet man! I've seen your site a bunch! Your car is super-badass. I've even posted a couple pics here before. :) Cool to get to talk to you! I think to get the 1800EK bottom end, you'll probably have to source it from down here. Your best bet might be to get the engine from an '82 or '83, since they had a little bit better design in the head and some better flow.

Now, I assume when you did your swap, that it was a bolt-in affair for that car, correct? The early E-series motors swapped around to different cars rather easily I hear. Being that they are the same basic block externally, like mounts, etc....

Here's some pics I pulled from your website! Glad to have you here!!

http://www.roadsailing.com/images/GoodOne.jpg
http://www.roadsailing.com/f-motor.jpg

88LXi68
10-04-2007, 11:01 AM
I love it! Welcome aboard

BITESIZE
10-04-2007, 11:58 AM
Holy shiney batman!

Hazwan
10-04-2007, 01:04 PM
Yeah I've seen your site before, and one of my favorite 1st gen Civics :thumbup:

Love the paint, engine, rims, eveything! Its just bad ass!

DBMaster
10-04-2007, 01:05 PM
One of my best friends had a 78 Civic 24 years ago. This one's a lot simpler under the hood. Awesome job!

87LXiR
10-04-2007, 01:36 PM
great ride man, sounds beautiful in the clip, very very nice.
oh and :welcome:

offthahook
10-06-2007, 10:20 AM
That is really sick! Nice work on that little Civic. You guys think old Accords are small, check out the old Civics.

lostforawhile
10-06-2007, 10:23 AM
hey great car!! i did a lot of stuff back in the day with 81's, I liked them before they went to the non round headlights.

xvok
10-06-2007, 01:29 PM
lol ya go for the 83 bottem end just make sure that you get the correct el head. thats what I am diong right now. it will be super chill to have someone to compare numbers with. good luck

Civic Accord Honda
10-06-2007, 01:29 PM
badass car
and yeah lost is right the civics looked much better befor thay went to non round head lights
i used to have a 81 civic gl1500

redr2
10-06-2007, 06:57 PM
glad you all like it ~

I am going to have to source the EK in the USA as Canada only got non CVCC versions (1600 EL Motors). Shouldn't be an issue though as I am only about 30 minutes from the border.

I was looking to keep it in the 79-81 range as I have a header that works for those years (although its on its last legs as well). Pacesetter and a company called Hondo (not a spelling mistake) made headers for these motors but are very difficult to find now, even used.

I am not against the 83's though but do want to confirm the intake ports are the same so my dual carb intake can bolt up to the block.

As for the swap, they swap in very easy but do require some minor welding and wiring to make them work. Easier than a D16 anyway.

xvok
10-06-2007, 10:38 PM
intake is going to be the same but make sure that if you ek block is prior to 83 then you el head will need to be as wheel .

redr2
10-06-2007, 11:03 PM
Ya, I know. The heads only interchange with the corresponding years...79-81 and 82-83. I'll obviously run the EL head on the EK block to ditch the CVCC design that came with the EK's.

I am trying to track down a motor that was already built up years ago but so far no luck.....

anyone hear have any leads on headers or dual carb intakes?

2ndGenGuy
10-07-2007, 01:19 AM
Man, I'm not too far away. I can make it up to B.C. in less than 3 hours. If you need help sourcing an EK block just let me know. The 81 port design is WAY different from the 82-83. So if you want to keep your intake manifold and exhaust manifold, you're going to be SOL.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/EK%20vs%20EL%20Heads/IMG_2186.jpg

Here's a picture I took. The clean one is the '82-83 style, and the nasty looking one is the '81 style. Port layout is the same year-for-year other than the CVCC stuff. I've always got my eyes peeled for the intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds for any of the EK series stuff. There was a Hondo header for the 82-83 on eBay a few months ago, but that was the last I saw of it.

You can watch PreludePower.com as well, since the 1g Preludes also had the EK/EL motor.

79cord
10-07-2007, 01:10 PM
There's also the crankshaft/flywheel bolt pattern change to be aware of, changed from M10 to M12(?) thread late in '80. So you'd need the appropriate flywheel.
'81(?) Automatic blocks might be worth considering too; seems they had extra oil outlet holes drilled just aboue the oil filter for an external engine oil-cooler.
But even if the block has seen better days EL & EK blocks shared the same part numbers so presumably it's the crank & rods that give the extra capacity.

redr2
10-08-2007, 11:44 AM
Ya, I already have the larger flywheel spacing (mines an '81) and its shaved down to around 11 pounds.

Its strange as I see most the headers for the 82-83 blocks but side draft intakes are always for the 79-81 motors....of course this is also because the intake ports match up with the Civic's CVCC (1500) motor. I have yet to see a side draft intake specifically for the 82-83....unless they are custom.

As for the oil cooler, my block has them (blocked off)

2ndGenGuy
10-08-2007, 12:00 PM
Yeah, my block has a factory oil cooler for it. And it was an automatic originally too. FTW!

I think when it comes time for headers, it will be custom time. It's damn near impossible to find headers for the '81 blocks. In fact, I've never EVER seen one for sale... :(

tomatofiasco
10-09-2007, 02:17 AM
i am in ur thread

gaspin at ur trumpets

seriously thats thinspiration for me. i'd love to do something like that. where did you get the cam and how much power do you suppose you have with that setup? and how much does that civic weigh? my hatch is reasonably light so your civic must be really really light.

damn that reminds me, the little delinquent brother of an old friend of mine scored a civic exactly like yours [may have even been a boot-back] for NOTHING $ Australian. it had a blown head gasket and a 1200cc motor, and when he fixed that it actually went quite well even with two people weighing it down.

but then he broke the top engine mount OFF the engine [!!!] and thrashed it around in a vacant block beside his house until it had to be towed away and crushed. it was silver and didnt have any obvious rust that i could find. i could have made a project of it with my spare motor if he hadnt been such a dweeb :rice:

redr2
10-12-2007, 12:14 AM
you can still get cams for these motors from Shadbolt Cams and Colt Cams (both near Vancouver, BC but they also ship). I believe Web Cams also has a grind for them.

For weight its high 1700 ...closer to 1800 pounds - its very light.

As for power...its kind of hard to say. The EL motors developed as much or more power than the US EK Motors as we had the benefit of no cvcc heads... I figure it is around 100 HP. I was planning a having it dynoed but then the head gasket blew. The power seems low but its the power to weight ratio that counts with these things. As it stands I have raced my buddy with a twin cam Integra motor swapped into his first gen wagon and can pull on him (as long as he is not using the nitrous set up) so it can hold its own to many of the modern motors. The dual carbs is what makes these things move, power was good with a Weber down draft but night and day with the dual carbs.

tomatofiasco
10-12-2007, 01:42 AM
100hp is a lot of horsepower! i dont know what my car weighs, under 900kg though so its not much heavier than yours. i simply must rebuild this engine with righteous mega-intakes.

how much more aggressive is the cam from stock? my 81 cam wore out and i had to replace it with a '77 but i dont really know how they differ. i'd like to get the worn cam built up. the standard exhaust sounds ok to me, certainly not like the one on my magna which you can HEAR choking the engine [on later magnas, the difference between the normal, slow version and the positively fast sport version was a high-flow exhaust delivering 165kw] so is the exhaust a mandatory upgrade with a larger carb?

i'd like to have maybe 85 horsepower, just a bit more to get it up hills but not enough to become impractical. i mean its fine as it is and reasonably efficient, but im thinking i should spend some money on this car before its too late.

i think my steering column is rattling from 30 years of turning too :(

redr2
10-12-2007, 02:55 PM
its not overly aggressive. it allows for more up top. It is still okay for the street and the cars idles smooth.

The exhaust is not a must but the secret with these engines is air flow hence the bigger carbs, header/exhaust.

xvok
10-13-2007, 09:20 AM
hey what did you use on your older car for the sidedrafts they look like ether solex or mankki but i can't tell i would totaly be up for fabbing a duel intake

redr2
10-15-2007, 11:22 AM
hjgfchjfghj

2ndGenGuy
10-15-2007, 11:36 AM
hjgfchjfghj

I agree. :huh:

redr2
10-15-2007, 12:05 PM
Dellorto DHLA 40's with A/T Engineering intake

redr2
10-15-2007, 12:07 PM
Those pics you have listed...those are those both EL (non CVCC) heads right?

BITESIZE
10-15-2007, 12:11 PM
I just watched the video and holy shit that's fast!

2ndGenGuy
10-15-2007, 12:15 PM
No, the brown one is an EK. Only differece between EL and EK of the same year is the CVCC is absent on the EL. Notice the tiny ports for the CVCC Aux chambers on the EK head.

redr2
10-15-2007, 01:08 PM
I see it now.

I am aware you have had the 79-81 EL head and the 82-83 EL head...are you sure the intakes were not the same 79 through 83 on the EL heads?

redr2
11-07-2007, 08:20 PM
bought a new motor for my car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=250174275530&rd=1

price was too good to pass up. Sooo, its a late 80 to 81 so my EL head will bolt on. I am having my EL head ported and shaved down some to bump up compression so I will be listing the EK head on this motor once I'm done. Should be fun!

2ndGenGuy
11-07-2007, 10:26 PM
Man, that's a great price for a complete rebuilt motor. Will be nice to have all that extra torque from the extra displacement. I am guessing that 80 and 81 motors must be the same, but I thought that 81 was a distinct year. Maybe it was '79 that was the oddball EK1 with the 2-port head. Well, as long as it matches up, you're good to go. :)


I am aware you have had the 79-81 EL head and the 82-83 EL head...are you sure the intakes were not the same 79 through 83 on the EL heads?

Sorry I didn't get back to you on this. I never even saw that it got posted. I'm not 100% sure, but it was my guess that the intakes were not the same through those years. Looking on a site that sells Weber kits, they list the intake manifold for the EL engine as 76-81. I think that the exhaust update went from 2 to 4 ports in 1980, but then both the intake and exhaust ports were reconfigured in 1982.

offthahook
11-08-2007, 11:08 AM
I saw that engine on ebay and it looks nice, but beware! You don't know how well it was rebuilt and as a few of us know, ebay can be a gamble. I bought a rebuilt AC compressor and it looked freaking nice, but leaked. 2nd genguy got a crankshaft that was crap. I would try to test it before installing it or using parts from it. Hopefully, it isn't a blemish that just popped up on ebay.

2ndGenGuy
11-08-2007, 11:14 AM
^^ tr00f! Since it's already out of the car, and since you're pulling the head anyways, a good bet would be to pull the oil pan, make sure it's got a new oil pump in there, then pull your bearing caps and plastigauge your clearances. Then retorque all the caps, so you KNOW they're right. It won't take more than a couple hours, and if you need clearance and torque specs, I've got the service manual and I can hook you up.

lostforawhile
11-08-2007, 06:49 PM
if those motors are built like the cvcc motor from the 81 civic make sure to replace the oil pump driveshaft that drops through the block. and if you replace the pump don't over torque the bolts or the pump will lock causing the driven gear to chew up the gear on the cam. hapened to me,luckily i had an extra pump cam and driveshaft sitting in a bucket of oil.

2ndGenGuy
11-08-2007, 08:40 PM
if those motors are built like the cvcc motor from the 81 civic make sure to replace the oil pump driveshaft that drops through the block. and if you replace the pump don't over torque the bolts or the pump will lock causing the driven gear to chew up the gear on the cam. hapened to me,luckily i had an extra pump cam and driveshaft sitting in a bucket of oil.

Yeah these motors are the same. Unfortuantely, you can't pick up new oil pump shafts anymore as far as I've been able to tell. Plus, the camshaft and the oil pump gear are supposed to be replaced as a set. If you only replace one, the wear patterns won't match up, and cause premature wear. At least, that's what the "Building Honda Engines" book says. I do believe the factory manual says the same as well.

Hey, I'm guessing you've seen the oil starvation issue that the old E-series motors have on the valvetrain for cylinder 4? Being that you've done your share of work on the old Hondas, have you ever heard of or come up with a fix? You seem like an innovative guy who might just know a little insider knowledge on this matter. :)

lostforawhile
11-08-2007, 08:55 PM
Yeah these motors are the same. Unfortuantely, you can't pick up new oil pump shafts anymore as far as I've been able to tell. Plus, the camshaft and the oil pump gear are supposed to be replaced as a set. If you only replace one, the wear patterns won't match up, and cause premature wear. At least, that's what the "Building Honda Engines" book says. I do believe the factory manual says the same as well.

Hey, I'm guessing you've seen the oil starvation issue that the old E-series motors have on the valvetrain for cylinder 4? Being that you've done your share of work on the old Hondas, have you ever heard of or come up with a fix? You seem like an innovative guy who might just know a little insider knowledge on this matter. :)
hmm i never really had a problem,my old cam was worn under the rocker really bad,but i just used a rocker from a junkyard car, a cam from a different car,and an oil pump driveshaft from a third. ran fine for years. as far as the oil pump driveshaft, try thisoldhonda.org

redr2
11-08-2007, 09:38 PM
The intakes and exhaust are different from the 79-81 EL's to the 82-83.

As for the EK port spacing:

'79 to mid '80 used 2 port exhaust (M10 flywheel bolts)
mid(late) '80 to '81 (all) used the 4 port exhaust ports (saimesed) (M12 flywheel bolts)
82-83 used the 4 port exhaust but were evenly spaced.

However, the 79-81 EL heads work on all the 79-81 EK blocks regardless of the 2port or 4 port head. 82-83 EL must mate up to 82-83 EK.


I checked out who actually built the motor before buying it....my main concern was with the crank as Honda used Hardened cranks by nitriding them. If they were turned down and not re-hardened they wear out quite quickly. In the process I learned that the outfit was a large re-manufacturing outfit that specializes in rebuilds for dealerships and engine shops. Not just some back yard guy. The guy was familiar with the Honda cranks and issues so I am confident there. As for the oil pump it is new.

The motor comes with no oil pan so I have a chance to inspect it there. As for the head its coming off anyway and will have the EL head bolted on.

I pick it up tomorrow so I will post an update. If anyone wants the rebuilt 4 port head (for your 79-81 EK motor) let me know as I will be selling it...not for very much, just to off set some of the costs it takes to have my EL head done and I expect it will run around $1000 to have it done.

I am also going to try some larger chokes in my Dellortos (32mm) so I expect this will give me more power as well. Once done I am going to have it dynoed for shits and giggles.

2ndGenGuy
11-08-2007, 11:20 PM
Yeah man, I can't wait to see what it puts down for horsepower. Haven't you got a little bit hopped up cam too? I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you could probably go even bigger than the 32mm chokes. It sounds a bit on the smallish side for a 1.8 liter engine.

tomatofiasco
11-09-2007, 07:58 PM
whoa, a complete motor on ebay? god bless america.


hmm i never really had a problem,my old cam was worn under the rocker really bad,but i just used a rocker from a junkyard car, a cam from a different car,and an oil pump driveshaft from a third. ran fine for years. as far as the oil pump driveshaft, try thisoldhonda.org

lol :wave:

when i fixed my motor i just mixed and matched the least worn parts from each engine, most of which fitted with minimal filing. i drive it everywhere and its still driving so i guess i must have been lucky, what with all these reports
of soft cranks, walking seals and cracked heads :O

and though i'm not religious, i interpret my tacho face as a work of allegory. the black area is the great void of unknowing, before and after time. the white marks and numbers encompass all things, familiar and foriegn. arranged in series, they symbolise man's incremental descent, though moral corruption, to layers of sinful existence.
the red sector is hades, the cursed lake of fire, the dominion of satan. red is ultimate damnation, a BAD place.
the needle is you, pure and clean [somewhat green after dark :cheers:], your spirit in constant flux.
however, in a postmodern stroke of genius, the paradigm of virtue through consumption and morality in the machine age is questioned, as descent becomes ascent and fear is turned into temptation.
the way of righteousness may be obscured from us now, but the choice remains. save your rods, SAVE YOUR SOUL!

ironically this is what happens when im supposed to be re-submitting my final assignment, but elect instead to read threads and listen to symphonic metal :gun: :violin:
i guess a theoretical education has its applications :wtf:

ps: i have just now discovered the one universal element of all creation, all matter, time, and the universe, not necessarily in that order though:

you know when you're waiting in a turning lane, the indicators of the cars in front NEVER TRULY SYNCHRONIZE?! well, watch this for a minute!



:wtf:
:Owned:




this is SO exciting :huh:

lostforawhile
11-10-2007, 09:06 AM
whoa, a complete motor on ebay? god bless america.



lol :wave:

when i fixed my motor i just mixed and matched the least worn parts from each engine, most of which fitted with minimal filing. i drive it everywhere and its still driving so i guess i must have been lucky, what with all these reports
of soft cranks, walking seals and cracked heads :O

and though i'm not religious, i interpret my tacho face as a work of allegory. the black area is the great void of unknowing, before and after time. the white marks and numbers encompass all things, familiar and foriegn. arranged in series, they symbolise man's incremental descent, though moral corruption, to layers of sinful existence.
the red sector is hades, the cursed lake of fire, the dominion of satan. red is ultimate damnation, a BAD place.
the needle is you, pure and clean [somewhat green after dark :cheers:], your spirit in constant flux.
however, in a postmodern stroke of genius, the paradigm of virtue through consumption and morality in the machine age is questioned, as descent becomes ascent and fear is turned into temptation.
the way of righteousness may be obscured from us now, but the choice remains. save your rods, SAVE YOUR SOUL!

ironically this is what happens when im supposed to be re-submitting my final assignment, but elect instead to read threads and listen to symphonic metal :gun: :violin:
i guess a theoretical education has its applications :wtf:

ps: i have just now discovered the one universal element of all creation, all matter, time, and the universe, not necessarily in that order though:

you know when you're waiting in a turning lane, the indicators of the cars in front NEVER TRULY SYNCHRONIZE?! well, watch this for a minute!



:wtf:
:Owned:




this is SO exciting :huh:WOW MAN!! you've been drinking my good organic fuel haven't you?? http://images.motortrend.com/features/scenes/112_0606_cars_21z+disney_pixar_film_cars+fillmore. jpg

redr2
11-10-2007, 02:00 PM
see if I can post a pic, picked it up yesterday, its a purdy one

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/418/57458091vp6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

redr2
11-10-2007, 02:01 PM
one more:

[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2041/86491870sf5.jpg[/UR

2ndGenGuy
11-10-2007, 07:21 PM
Woo! That is purdy! I'll have a purdy motor just like that here in a little while. :)

chino4u
11-11-2007, 10:25 PM
sweet ride man...

offthahook
11-12-2007, 04:36 AM
Redr-- Check your PM's man. That head off the crate motor looks very sweet!