Head Gasket Blown

[HondaBoy]

yeah, so i have a lovely blown head gasket on my 3gee. it wont be a whole lot to fix if its just the gasket and not a warped head and or block deck. so that'll be the first thing i'm going to check with a strait edge. if it does turn out to be a warped head, i was thinking this would be the perfect time to get a new cam. i've thought about it for a while and have decided that i will go with a delta, probably a 272 duration. anyone else think this is the right time for a new cam? this really pisses me off though, i just installed my new weber carb and was really looking foward to it. but of course this shit just had to happen. i estimate with the gasket set and if need be, get the head resurfaced, i'll spend about $200. i'll want to replace the timing belt and tensioner at this time also. its been about 50000 miles since i replaced the belt. guess i'll have to work on this in my spare time. i just hate to think i have to take the head off, but the time has come that it is very necessary.

the reason i believe the head gasket went is because when installing the carb, i didnt cap the coolant passages going into the intake manifold. as that is, it allowed coolant to enter the intake manifold and into the cylinders. after cranking it over a number of times i think the head pressure was increase to such a high amount that it blew the gasket between a couple of cylinders. i'll have to take the head off to determine that, but this is my theory. also, i first noticed steam comming out of the valve cover breather. then looked into the oil fill hole noticing a nice coffee color. after running for a few minutes it will warm up and blow the coolant out of the radiator like a guiser. so its definately a blow head gasket.

[cygnus x-1]

Aww, bummer. But you have the right attitude. Every repair is also an upgrade opportunity! :cheers:

I'm thinking it might be good to flush some of the water out. Drain the oil and refill it with the cheapest stuff you can find. Crank the engine over for awhile to circulate the new oil and flush the water out. The drain again. If the oil is still foamy repeat the process. Water in the engine is bad because it coule cause corrosion.
I've never blown a head gasket though so maybe others will also have some advice.

C|

[prototype]

When you do get that headgasket off, make sure you take a clean cloth and wipe some oil around the cylinder walls. This'll ensure that your walls don't get too rusted while you have the head off, especially since your coolant made it's way in. ;)

[w261w261]

This past winter I let my 25 year old son use an '85 Volvo V6 that I had, a nice car if you didn't mind the ultra-square styling. It had 120k on it. I didn't keep good track of it, it got a small leak in a coolant hose and he let it overheat. The head gasket went, but not really bad, as there was no cross-contamination of the coolant/oil. However, as soon as the engine heated up, it would pump the coolant out of the bottle. The car had really nice red leather and an incredible white paint job, but had no real value on the market, as the V6 is an unpopular engine. Having nothing to lose, I parked it until the weather got nicer, then bought a quart of this head gasket repair liquid for maybe 10 bucks.

To use it, you have to completely flush the coolant system - I guess antifreeze keeps it from working. Long story short, the stuff worked like a charm. The car works fine again...so good I sold it. I really didn't think it would, but it did. You might want to try it, the most you'd waste would be 10 bucks.

[MessyHonda]

good luck with it. im here trying to figure out my obd1 swap. and pin outputs from the conversion harness

[HondaBoy]

well my manager said we got some new head gasket repair stuff, but i think i'm going to go ahead and just get the gasket set and replace it. i really need this car to be reliable for daily driving so i'm just going to take the head off and see whats up with it. but yeah, definately cross contamination with water leaking into the oil. filled the radiator up, it drank it up pretty quickly and then blew out the remaining amount. before i parked it i did change the oil again and put a new filter so there'd be less chance of much water being in the oil. when i go back to work i'll see if the gasket set came or not since i had to get it from my other store across town.

another thing, does the A20 have studs or head bolts? torque to yeild or not? i'm hoping not. but i may just order a new set just for the hell of it.

[2oodoor]

Cygnus you never blowed a gasket.. wholly crap, that is amazing, well come to think of it I havent either once I redone one. well yes I did , on a jetta, I hate water bugs

Honda boy... I hope you blocked off the water hole on the intake with metal epoxy before you installed the weber..the one under the carb base??
.

[cygnus x-1]

another thing, does the A20 have studs or head bolts? torque to yeild or not? i'm hoping not. but i may just order a new set just for the hell of it.

They're bolts. And I'm pretty sure they aren't torque to yield.

C|

[2oodoor]

They're bolts. And I'm pretty sure they aren't torque to yield.

C|

I think he means non reusable head bolts, those that the threds are designed to bend at the torque spec:dunno: kind of like compression washers/nuts

[cygnus x-1]

Torque to yield means the bolts are actually torqued until they stretch. Which means they aren't reusable.

And if you want new ones you can get studs from ARP. Part number is 218-4703. $89 from importperformanceparts.net

C|

[88Accord-DX]

They aren't TTY head bolts. You can actually re-use them if you want. Clean out all the carbon in the valves & top of the pistons too. After I personally rebuilt my motor , after about 5k miles, I re-gapped the valve lash & torqued the head bolts again to 55 Ft. lbs. I like a couple extra pounds of clamping force myself.
Anyhow, got a good days work ahead of you. Shit happens.
edit- Can also check that cooling system with a coolant pressure tester. Compression test will also confirm your blown head gasket issue if not sure.

[AccordEpicenter]

you can reuse the head bolts. Most tty bolts are only good for like 2 torque downs before they should be replaced (these arent tty anyway). Most use a torque angle wrench too... And yes you def need to change that head gasket. Id check over the head really well too, they tend to warp a bit if you heat the snot out of it

[lostforawhile]

do you have an lxi ot a dx/lx if it's carb motor make sure it's not that o ring on the intake between the intake and the carb base,this will allow coolant to get into the intake and make you think you have a bad head gasket,when it's just the o ring thing. http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62316

[Cheeseburger]

dam that blows! good luck with the repairs!

[HondaBoy]

well my teacher said i could come up to school on friday and use the coolant system pressure tester. he said fill it up with water, pull the plugs out and see if there is any water comming from any cylinders. would help when looking for what messed up. dunno if i will have time to do that friday but hope so. it really doesnt look like im going to have time to do this anytime soon though, so i may have a shop do the work for me. i know a few good shops that i deal with on a daily basis at work so i may use one of them.

[lostforawhile]

well my teacher said i could come up to school on friday and use the coolant system pressure tester. he said fill it up with water, pull the plugs out and see if there is any water comming from any cylinders. would help when looking for what messed up. dunno if i will have time to do that friday but hope so. it really doesnt look like im going to have time to do this anytime soon though, so i may have a shop do the work for me. i know a few good shops that i deal with on a daily basis at work so i may use one of them. hey if it shows water coming out bypass your heated manifold, i'm not sure if you have carb or fuel injection, i 'm pretty sure the FI has a heated manifold too,a crack in a passage can make water go into your cylinders through the intake valves. if you bypass it and it shows good you know where the problem is. only diiference is on a carbed motor,you have an extra hose coming off the water pipe, it goes to the carb base,you would have to plug it. in addition to connecting the inlet and outlet hoses to the manifold together.

[2oodoor]

I hope you understood about blocking off the water passage UNDER the carb base when you put on a weber

[HondaBoy]

nope, and thats why the head is fucked up. duh. mainly because i went by the instructions that were sent with the carb. it specificly said to go right by the instructions given, and look what happened. might go ahead and get a new cam and some other stuff.

[lostforawhile]

yea i was going to do a webber originally,so i made an aluminum plug and it was tig welded into that passage in the manifold, then the gasket surface was machined. i cut up that manifold though to make the SU manifold,. the hose that goes to the carb base itself, the one from the water pipe,just cap that one off,the hole in the manifold that water flows into from the carb, that needs to be closed off if you go webber. that connects to your coolant going through the manifold. you can't permantly bypass the manifold,because your temp sensor is in there, i can make you a piece that conects the two ends together,with the proper 1/8 bsp threads for the temp sensor, if you are going to keep your vasccume sensors though, i would need to include threaded fittings for those as well. I might already have one i made when i was going to do the webber,i have to look around.EDIT I just read your other post,i will see about making you one then you can completly bypass the manifold if you want to.

[cygnus x-1]

Probably the easiest thing to do is to plug that little hole with JB-weld. That's what I did. You could also just not run coolant through the manifold as well, but then you would need to relocate the temp sensor to the thermostat housing. Which requires that you get rid of the thermo-valve that's there now.

C|

[lostforawhile]

Probably the easiest thing to do is to plug that little hole with JB-weld. That's what I did. You could also just not run coolant through the manifold as well, but then you would need to relocate the temp sensor to the thermostat housing. Which requires that you get rid of the thermo-valve that's there now.

C|na i have a piece around here somewhere i made that bolts to the firewall, it has the 1/8 bsp threads for the sender and i think the threads for the other two vaccume sensors. you screw in a 1/4 npt barbed fitting into each end. those go to the hoses that would have been in and out on the manifold. this moves everything off of your manifold,I was going to use it when i did the webber conversion,before i started the SU project.

webbers don't like heated manifolds anyway.

[MessyHonda]

fuel injection is so much easier....i give you guys props for sticking with carbs.

[2oodoor]

nope, and thats why the head is fucked up. duh. mainly because i went by the instructions that were sent with the carb. it specificly said to go right by the instructions given, and look what happened. might go ahead and get a new cam and some other stuff.

when in doubt follow the yellow brick road to the wizard, 3Geez how to:cheers:

[cygnus x-1]

fuel injection is so much easier....i give you guys props for sticking with carbs.

I presonally cannot accept those props since I did succumb to the siren song of fuel injection. :ugh: :lol:

C|

[MessyHonda]

I presonally cannot accept those props since I did succumb to the siren song of fuel injection. :ugh: :lol:

C|



you do awesome builds tho. thanks for helping out. i always see you over at PP. one day i want to be as knowledgeable as you.

[2oodoor]

fuel injection is so much easier....i give you guys props for sticking with carbs.

You say this but it is far from true in another aspect, When those systems start giving you problems things turn south quickley because of all the possible theory towards solutions. Scan codes are only a small piece of the puzzle most of the time.

[MessyHonda]

You say this but it is far from true in another aspect, When those systems start giving you problems things turn south quickley because of all the possible theory towards solutions. Scan codes are only a small piece of the puzzle most of the time.



well its not as hard as you think. computers are part of our everyday lives. Myself i built my own computer...this is the computer that has helped me post the 13k+ post i have.i dont have a problem with it because i know how it work or how to fix it. most of the stuff that goes wrong is sensors(as a 20 year old car most of them should get replaced anyways). I like to be consistent, because with carbs it can run like crap one day and the next it can run fine.(you cant drive it up to 5000ft and expect the same performance with out tunning) and with fuel injection it compensates to make up for power most of our wiring is not bad.i have learned lots with this website and great guys on here like Pico..its not a new car with sensor on sensors....i got to drive my friends malibu and it does not have the same feeling because its all electronical not even spark plug wires...its werid how they make stuff now.

[HondaBoy]

one of my customers has an '87 sedan just like mine. said it runs and all, for $800. lives in my neighborhood so i need to go check that out. if not to use it for a parts car, then another 3gee just to drive while i work on my original. just dont have enough time to work on my car. maybe because i'm weary of working on an engine thats still in a car. always have worked on engines that were out and on an engine stand with plenty of room to see everything. another thing, i started the car yesterday briefly. really sounds like the head gasket is blown between the cylinders, from other experiences. didnt get a chance to go borrow my teachers coolant system pressure tester. should i just dig into this project? i keep wondering that. i really dont like to start something and then have it sit for days at a time, but i think thats going to be the only way to get this done at this point.

[lostforawhile]

fuel injection is so much easier....i give you guys props for sticking with carbs.old school is so much nicer, fuel injection just isn't as much fun. besides you've seen one fuel injection system you've pretty much seen em all. and honda boy i can't find that piece but i'll make you another one. :cheers:

[HondaBoy]

i thoght the temp sensor was screwed into the back of the carb. but i guess not? if not them yeah, i'd like to have those conversion fittings. thought i was going to have to make something else to addapt a temp sensor. got any pix of where its located on the carb manifold?

[2oodoor]

Ok MessyHonda I was not trying to dis your point really, but what was your point anyway? we were discussing a particular issue here, all due respect to your skills but I have been in the biz a while and I was there for the transformation ..lol.. I had to totally relearn drivability diagnosis and most all areas of cars,changed as well, so I pretty much know a good bit of both worlds.And I be dammed heave ho, they changed it again in the past five years, now you have drive by wire, variable valve timing, cylinder cut outs, two ratio automaitcs, . it goes on and on with more technology.
You are right, ultimate tuning can easily be accomplished with electronic fuel injection, but it is limitied to predesigned systems with internal parimeters. For your arguement, yes aftermarket reasearch and expensive lab created electronics can get you there $$$$ so as a hobbyist and dealing with a retro import like my 86 accord I will always defend the carburator and my personal choice of the underdog auto tranny, well at least that first one anyway..:)

HondaBoy did you run a cormpression check or pull the plugs to confirm the head gasket? It is a wonder you didnt break a rod with that kind of water going in the Chamber, funny it was the head gasket being the weak point for uncompresable agents, must have been on its way already. zi really wanted to hear how much you were digging the weber difference:)

[HondaBoy]

must have been enevitable. i've run the car hard for about 6 years and over 80000 miles. it wasnt that surprising that the gasket gave out. probably a good thing, well when compared to all the other bad things that can happen when head pressure is too great. i can go do a compression check right now so i guess ill do that and see what else is up with that. i did one then not the others which i should have done.

[lostforawhile]

i thoght the temp sensor was screwed into the back of the carb. but i guess not? if not them yeah, i'd like to have those conversion fittings. thought i was going to have to make something else to addapt a temp sensor. got any pix of where its located on the carb manifold?it's on the back of the manifold,it has a single wire attached to it. you also have two vaccume sensors screwed into the manifold,one controls your advance/retard on the dizzy, and the other controls the venting of the charcol canister.

[HondaBoy]

compression from the first cylinder starting at the front to the last was 185, 180, 178, 185. last i did a compression check it was 190 on all 4. so this leads me to believe that the two middle cylinders are leaking a bit. only problem is when they begin to compress with a plug firing. espececially when the thermostat has fully opened. but the water mixing with the oil has to be a cracked head or blow out gasket. also the water spewing out of the radiator fill hole after the thermostat has opened has me convinced it is the head gasket.

^thanks man

[88Accord-DX]

The best test that will lead you to what is going on is LEAK DOWN TEST. It's the only test that will put air in the cooling system without running the engine & second guessing. Compression test isn't so accurate.

[2oodoor]

The best test that will lead you to what is going on is LEAK DOWN TEST. It's the only test that will put air in the cooling system without running the engine & second guessing. Compression test isn't so accurate.

Kind of confusing when you say leak down test, that is a term I am used to hearing while checking compression. I think you are talking about cooling system pressure check, you use the pressure tester... attach on end in place of the radiator cap, and then pump it up to the lb rating stamped on your radiator cap. watch the guage and see if the cooling system hold specified pressure,..lol or any pressure.
It really does not sound like a head gasket blown here Im sorry, or cracked had either, but I hope you can get to the problem Hondaboy, whatever it is.
It is normal to get some spew when your therrmo opens with the cap off. Also you have to purge the air out of the system.

[88Accord-DX]

Most people don't realize a leak down tester can also find a blown head gasket. Yeah, it's mainly a tester for valves & rings. There are 3 testers that can find a leaking head gasket. The coolant pressure tester, a compression tester & a leak down tester.

[cygnus x-1]

You know, after reading this again I'm not convinced the head gasket is blown either. I would have expected much lower numbers from the compression test. Try it again with the radiator cap off and see if you can hear bubbles after each cylinder is pressurized. The water in the oil could be leakage past the rings. It wouldn't take all that much water to foul the oil. And about the radiator geyser; just the other day I had to change out my coolant temp sensor so I drained the radiator. When I was done I poured the water back in and thought everything was fine. I started it up and let it idle to warm up and after a few minutes I saw water boiling out the catch bottle. So I shut it off and let it sit to cool down a little. After starting it back up and revving the engine all the water in the bottle got sucked back into the system and everything was fine. There was just some trapped air in the system and it didn't clear until the water pump spun fast enough to build enough pressure.

C|

[HondaBoy]

really? doesnt sound like a blown head gasket? water mixing into the oil, coolant blowing sky high out of the radiator fill hole when run for a few minutes. and not to mention this already happened to me with my diesel jetta, same symtoms. can you explain the water mixing into the oil after two oil changes? same thing happening each time, water mixing into the oil. if not the head gasket, then something has cracked. either the water passages surrounding the cylinder or cracked head between the oil passages. but then again it wouldnt run as good as it does in its current condition if those were true.

[cygnus x-1]

Two oil changes you say? Well then there is definitely *something* wrong. Could be a leak out to a coolant passage then. In any case you might want to pull the head off just to assess the damage even if it turns out the head gasket is ok. They aren't that expensive.
Did you try listening for bubbles?

C|

[2oodoor]

really? doesnt sound like a blown head gasket? water mixing into the oil, coolant blowing sky high out of the radiator fill hole when run for a few minutes. and not to mention this already happened to me with my diesel jetta, same symtoms. can you explain the water mixing into the oil after two oil changes? same thing happening each time, water mixing into the oil. if not the head gasket, then something has cracked. either the water passages surrounding the cylinder or cracked head between the oil passages. but then again it wouldnt run as good as it does in its current condition if those were true.
I cant tell but were you questioning yourself in that last sentence? If it is running ok and not missing on any cylinders, you may not have what you think is all I am saying.. All I can say is go look very carefully at the weber install section here, there are things that the weber kit instructions do not tell you about the install. And despite changing the oil sometimes you still have enough water in there to make a yoohoo, you still need to run the car a while to let the oil do its work and evaporate the water. I know what you are talking about the the jetta, you also smelled fuel real strong in the radiator too I would bet.. you had compression going into the cooling system.
Just trying to help, and I hate to see something misdiagnosed and money thrown away...:wave:

[lostforawhile]

I cant tell but were you questioning yourself in that last sentence? If it is running ok and not missing on any cylinders, you may not have what you think is all I am saying.. All I can say is go look very carefully at the weber install section here, there are things that the weber kit instructions do not tell you about the install. And despite changing the oil sometimes you still have enough water in there to make a yoohoo, you still need to run the car a while to let the oil do its work and evaporate the water. I know what you are talking about the the jetta, you also smelled fuel real strong in the radiator too I would bet.. you had compression going into the cooling system.
Just trying to help, and I hate to see something misdiagnosed and money thrown away...:wave:if you did that webber wrong coolant can be very eaisily being sucked into the cylinders.

[HondaBoy]

ok, here's something new. i found that as i spin the crankshaft, on the compression stroke on the middle cylinders i believe, i can hear air going into the crank case and valve cover. nothing into the coolant system though that i can tell. now whether or not it is the head gasket, the head indeed need to come off for inspection. i already have the gasket set so i'm not worried there. only paid like $60 for it though since i have an employee discount where i work.

[lostforawhile]

na i have a piece around here somewhere i made that bolts to the firewall, it has the 1/8 bsp threads for the sender and i think the threads for the other two vaccume sensors. you screw in a 1/4 npt barbed fitting into each end. those go to the hoses that would have been in and out on the manifold. this moves everything off of your manifold,I was going to use it when i did the webber conversion,before i started the SU project.

webbers don't like heated manifolds anyway.hey i made you one,i have to tig weld a bracket to it,and tap the 1/8 bsp threads for the sensor. this will allow you to hook up the temp sensor,and both of the temp controlled vaccume valves on the manifold. i put an extra 1/4 npt thread in one end,in case you need to send coolant anywhere else. if you don't use it it can have a 1/4 npt pipe plug put in it. you can get one at the hardware store.

[HondaBoy]

got any pix? thanks for your help. it is much appreciated.

[lostforawhile]

http://lh3.google.com/lostforawhile/RyES4SS0WpI/AAAAAAAAAmc/OdGFC2XtHEw/S4020386.JPG?imgmax=512
two of the ports are for the two vaccume sensors,that screw into the manifold,the small one is for your temp sensor, you bolt this to your firewall,and the water inlet hose to the manifold goes to one end and the outlet hose to the other.

[HondaBoy]

holy crap thats sweet man. tomorrow i have planned to start tearing the A20 apart. hopefully nothing falls through since its my day off. i should at least get the head off and be able to ascertain the damage.

[lostforawhile]

hey try and pm me,and let me know whats going on, i will try to get the mounting plate on monday if i can. and i'll get with you about getting it sent. you'll have to get the fittings for the end, from the hardware store, i can't remember what size the inlet and outlet hose are. the threads on the adaptor are just standard 1/4 npt. you can get those from any hardware store, you just get the hose barb end to fit the hoses on the car. i hope this helps you out. you'll still have to block off the hose that comes from the original carb base,if you haven't already done so. it comes off of the water pipe.

[HondaBoy]

ok, that sounds good. i really havent had time to do much of anything. its kinda hard taking care of a house, going to school and working. but i plan to get this somewhat finished within 2 to 3 weeks from now. and i will pm you when i get things together a bit more.

[2oodoor]

did you pick up that other Honda?

[HondaBoy]

update, havent done shit. honestly havent had any time during the day to work on the old 3gee. i have started looking for another car, but plan to fix and drive the 3gee. nope, wont be getting rid of it, just wont be my daily drive after i get another car. anyways, i havent been getting but one or two days off of work, so this leaves me very little spare time to do anything.

[2oodoor]

I was reading your post about headers and thought you had it going.. dont give up !!!!

edit.my bad, I was looking at a year old thread...

[HondaBoy]

yeah i'm not gonna give up on the 3gee. its already getting good, so why stop? just cant seem to find time anymore for working on my cars. i'm only getting one day a week off, i'm getting pissed. but it does pay the bills. but yeah, i'm going to go ahead and do the work myself instead of sending it to a shop. my friend is down to work on it with me so i just need a free day.

[lostforawhile]

lwt me know when you are ready and i'll finish that part for you.

[HondaBoy]

well got the head off. here's the pix. gonna get it tested for cracks and whatnot. hopefully its nothing major or the block itself. inside the cylinders looked all good though, real clean. well, hopefully i'll have more time like this to get some more done.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/DSC07126.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/DSC07125.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/DSC07128.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/DSC07129.jpg

[2oodoor]

pic of the old gasket? the valve side of the head?
cant tell anything by those pics,,, cool blue header though

[russiankid]

Get the head rebuilt. Your rockers look very dark, mine are brown.

[HondaBoy]

well i plan to take the head and get it checked out by a good machine shop. i'm going to ask my auto tech teacher and some of the guys i work with what shops are reasonable and reputable. i plan to take the intake manifold off before doing so though. i already have a new gasket for it so thats not a problem. maybe i should put some performance parts into the head. what i wanted was new high lift cam with 272 duration, new rockers and valve springs. but i dunno if i can afford it right yet since i'm trying to buy a new car right now. lets just hope it was that head gasket. i inspected it and couldnt find any spot that was blow between the oil and coolant passages. i'm going to let my teacher take a look and see what his opinion is. if it happens to be a cracked head or something like that i have a few engines lined up, either bottom end or the head i can get really quickly to replace if need be.

[Ichiban]

The 350 in my truck did the exact same thing. Compression was fine, but when the engine warmed up, it would foam the coolant and blow green foam out the surge tank. If you ran the engine hot with the rad cap off, you could see bubbles and smell exhaust in the coolant. There was, however, no oil to coolant contamination.

The cause? Both heads were cracked from exhaust valve seat, up the port into the coolant passage on cylinders 2 and 4, and 1 and 3 on the other side. It was confirmed by white residue on those plugs, and corresponding residue in/under the exhaust manifolds for those cylinders.

Best we could figure was that as the heads expanded due to heat, the cracks opened up. Which explains why the problem wasn't apparent while cold, or with the compression test.

As an aside, I don't think a few people understand what a leakdown test is. It uses a modified compression tester that applies air pressure to the cylinders, not the radiator, like the coolant system pressure tester does. They are not the same thing.

The leakdown tester can detect a blown headgasket if air is found to be leaking into an adjacent cylinder (bridging) or into the cooling system (bubbles in yer rad).

[HondaBoy]

hmm, i'm probably gonna pull the intake off it then take it up to school tuesday or wednesday and see if the things warped. if i find it to be too warped i may pull a head off another engine and have it rebuilt with a new high lift cam and valve train parts. cant wait to get this project done. should be pretty powerful over the stock configuration.

[AccordEpicenter]

im gonna bet its warped. I dont believe ive ever seen a honda head cracked that much

[AccordB20A]

Yup. They like to warp too

[MessyHonda]

time to slap in a VTECH head...lol

[AccordB20A]

time to slap in a VTECH head...lol


not just any vtech head. a doch vetech head

[MessyHonda]

not just any vtech head. a doch vetech head



only found in the motherland herself......JDMland....japan...

[HondaBoy]

right, vtec. like id waste any time on that. i'd have already had fuel injection. but now i have some plans to put a new high lift cam, new rocker arms, possibly new valves, possibly enlarge the valves using prelude valves with machine work. but for sure i want the delta 272 cam and i already have the weber carb and full exhaust. might get things port matched too. but this is since i've bought a new car and will have the 3gee for a n/a tuner. shooting for 140 whp with those mods. really need a manual tranny, i'm sure i'll trash the automatic.

[MessyHonda]

right, vtec. like id waste any time on that. i'd have already had fuel injection. but now i have some plans to put a new high lift cam, new rocker arms, possibly new valves, possibly enlarge the valves using prelude valves with machine work. but for sure i want the delta 272 cam and i already have the weber carb and full exhaust. might get things port matched too. but this is since i've bought a new car and will have the 3gee for a n/a tuner. shooting for 140 whp with those mods. really need a manual tranny, i'm sure i'll trash the automatic.



its hard to get power with out increassing the compression...you would have to shave the head...and get a nice port and polish to even get some power. my car is making like 120 and its fuel injected with stage 2 cam, headers, intake, obd1 tuned.

[HondaBoy]

finally got that crank pulley bolt off. bit of PB blaster did the trick. now i'll hopefully get to do some more work and get the old 3gee running again.

[1ajs]

is the head warped?

[HondaBoy]

i havent got a strait edge. i could take it up to school, but i dont have time right now. so what i'm probably going to do is take it down to this local machine shop that is well trusted by most of the shops here in town. they will check the head, which includes testing for combustion leakage of the valves and for cracks in the head and also the straitness of the head surface. that is $20, then $20 more to machine the head. might want to have the valves ground and seats recut. that will probably be a bit more. but looks like this is going to be a real winner. not going to cost incredibly too much and will likely be better than before. should be since a new weber 32/36 will sit attop the motor along with the header pipe and full exhaust, so better breathing will surely be noticeable. i'm trying to decide whether or not the get the car running or buy a Delta 272 street cam and wait a little longer. now if i do wait for the cam i can always install it later along with new rockers and springs. so i'll probably just wait on those. i'm just tired of not being able to drive my 3gee.

[2oodoor]

I told you, you would be spoiled by the 300 ponys.. huh huh huh. LOL

You will like the car with the weber, have them do a "competition valve job" then you port match the header to the head. Light up the ignition, burn 93...keep the junk outta the trunk.. keep the car light.
Get another DD, that is not so much of a toy bro.. :)

[HondaBoy]

i'm going to try to get this head over to the machine shop tomorrow. its pretty close to my school, so i hope to find time to do that. i need to take the studs out of the head though. hopefully i will get out of class early and have time to do that. its about damn time i get this car back on the road where it belongs. its looking hopeful though.

[HondaBoy]

well picked dropped the head off last friday, picked it up tuesday. i put the intake manifold back on and thats about it so far. now i'm trying to decide if i want to get a new timing belt, tensioner and oil pump. since its all apart and accessable, it would be nice to do. but that'll set me back some. and i'll probably have to wait about a month before i can put that into my budget. so i will likely just get the car running. the timing belt is dry and free of oil and doesnt have more than 60000 miles on it, i replaced it about 3 1/2 years ago. so i think it should do ok until i can get a new one to put in a little later on. i want to try and get the head installed sometime this weekend or before next wednesday. here's some pix of the rebuilt head. they were able to get the broken manifold stud out, of which i have a new one.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/Engine%20Stuff/DSC07348.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/Engine%20Stuff/DSC07347.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/Engine%20Stuff/DSC07346.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/Engine%20Stuff/DSC07345.jpg

[lostforawhile]

thats beautiful!!!!!:) make sure you know the direction the timing belt was running before, if you put it on running the other way after it's been run in one direction for 60000 miles, it could fail in short order, they take a directional set, it's a fiberglass strand belt remember,not a rubber one.

[2oodoor]

why is the cam on it already?
going by the interference (debockle) you should not have that on there when you set the head down and torque it. Unless you set up TDC and valve timing before putting the head on?? that sounds wrong.. lol

[russiankid]

Take the oil pump out and check the clearances on the rotor, if it is fine i wouldn't worry about getting a new pump. I spent about $20 getting o-rings from Honda for the pump.

[MessyHonda]

so did they port and polish it or how much would that would of cost?

[HondaBoy]

the shop i took it to said they didnt do that kind of work. i would have to take it to another shop thats near there that deals specificly in performance work. they didnt take very much off, said it was really not that warped but did need to be shaved which i wanted anyways. the middle of the head was where it had the low spot, so that would explain the coolant in the oil. might take the oil pump off and check the clearnaces inside like russainkid said, that would probably not be a bad idea and could save me some money. i ordered a new PCV tube that goes from the oil baffle thing under the intake manifold and up to it. it was brittle and broke so i wanted a new one.

[HondaBoy]

ok, so i've got the head installed, set the cam timing, adjusted the valves. i really hope the mark on the flex plate was correct. it seemed to be in relation to the piston's position. and not hitting any valves when the crank is rotated. so looks good i suppose. now i just need to do a few more things and it should be good to go. i ordered my timing belt kit, but i'm going to wait and see how things go first before i install a new one. will probably just use the belt i already had for a test run since it was in great shape. might want to drain the fuel tank since its been sitting for about 4 1/2 months. but it was almost empty anyways so thats good. cant wait to see how the weber performs. should be a great improvement over the kehin.

[HondaBoy]

here's how its lookin. i want to make a plate to go over where the egr valve is. i also want to clean it up a bit and take some unnecessary things out. i'll want to use some degreaser on the block to make everything look fresh. hopefully by tomorrow i'll have it running with everything connected. i'll be redoing the amp wiring and i think that brake booster needs that rust taken care of. also going to reverse that fuel line location on the carb so its out of the way. since summer is comming up, i think i'm going to fix the ac. i think all it needs is a new expansion valve. might get other new parts though if its in the budget.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/Engine%20Stuff/DSC07440.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/Engine%20Stuff/DSC07439.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/Engine%20Stuff/DSC07437.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/Engine%20Stuff/DSC07432.jpg

[2oodoor]

it is starting to look familiar:cheers:

[xvok]

hum this all seams very familer

[HondaBoy]

i got the pcv tube a couple of days ago. the one that was on there was original and plastic like in hardness. and very brittle. so here's the new pcv tube. yesterday i put the starter on and cranked it over without the spark plugs in. also did a compression test. got 150 psi in each cylinder, but i figure once its run with oil able to get slung up onto the cylinder walls, i'll get a better result. something i found wierd, the headlights, horn and stereo among other things wouldnt work well. but the starter was able to turn the engine. guess it doesnt need all of 12+ volts. i need to get a new water outlet, part that bolts to the side of the head, and a new thermostat housing piece. one of the bolts and the threads of the housing were fused together and not even drilling it out worked which just ended up tearing things up. so i'll either get those pieces brand new or go to the junk yard sometime this week. i also took some other brakets and vacuum oporated things out of the engine compartment to clean it up some more. i'd like to redo some of the wiring while i'm at it so i might get around to that also. another thing, i notice the belt slips in the directing of taking it off the cam. i havent put the crank shaft pulley back on so the belt guide isnt firmly in place. so i'm thinking thats all that is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/Engine%20Stuff/DSC07489.jpg

[russiankid]

Looking good. The reason you couldn't drill those bolts out of the thermostat housing is because they are hardened. I tried to drill mine out but ended up getting a new housing like you.

[HondaBoy]

well guess what, i got another housing from the junk yard. the damn thing has the same problem! i'm going to take it by the machine shop at school i suppose. they should be able to get the broken bolt out for me since PB blaster and vise grips didnt work. should get some more done on it this next week.

[russiankid]

well guess what, i got another housing from the junk yard. the damn thing has the same problem! i'm going to take it by the machine shop at school i suppose. they should be able to get the broken bolt out for me since PB blaster and vise grips didnt work. should get some more done on it this next week.

Good luck with that. I didn't go through the junkyard deal and coughed up the $50 for a new one. Used new bolts and remember to use ANTI-SIZE!!!

[HondaBoy]

yeah, i might just have to do that and get it from majestic honda. its a part that should have had anti seize on it, but unfortuately didnt. wont make this mistake again. looking like a few small things away from running.

[Oldblueaccord]

Its steel bolts in an aluminium housing there's not much you can do. It should be a warning to anyone that wants to change there T-stat. Heat/cold and water don't help.

I redrilled mine the next size up ,standard :huh: its about all you can do.


wp

[russiankid]

Its steel bolts in an aluminium housing there's not much you can do. It should be a warning to anyone that wants to change there T-stat. Heat/cold and water don't help.

I redrilled mine the next size up ,standard :huh: its about all you can do.


wp
I tried drilling mine, but i just couldn't drill through that darn bolt!

[cygnus x-1]

Its steel bolts in an aluminium housing there's not much you can do. It should be a warning to anyone that wants to change there T-stat. Heat/cold and water don't help.

I redrilled mine the next size up ,standard :huh: its about all you can do.

wp


For driling out bolts it's easier if you use the right type of bit. Find a split point cobalt bit. The split point helps to start the bit without walking and the cobalt in the steel makes it harder than the bolt you are drilling. It also helps to file/dremel the top of the bolt flat and then use a punch to put a dimple on it. The dimple will also help keep the bit from walking.

Heating with a torch and spraying with penetrating oil while still hot might also help loosen up the stuck bolt.

C|

[HondaBoy]

well i ended up drilling this one out also. screwed up some of the threads, so i may tap it to another size which i was thinking i would have to do. anyways, i think i'm gonna give it a shot today of trying to get it started up.


well this evening i had indeed got the car running. started on the first try. i really havent adjusted the distributor and carb, but it ran really well. steady idle at about 1500 rpms, choke not open. not sputtering, and it revs freely without any bogging down. so i think i have it done right. just a few minor things and the old 3gee should be back in business! so far, so good. and i hope that i dont run into any little bs problems. those dry cell batteries really hold up, even not being charged for months. i still want to give it a charge though. anyways, i'll probably get more done to it this week with my spare time and hopefully get it road worthy by the weekend.

[HondaBoy]

well unfortuately i havent had a bit of time for the 3gee. like i said it did run, but i still have some things to do. i need to relocate the temp sensor so thats something i need to get done. i did however get the alternator and ps pump bolted up and put a belt on them. i also ran it for about 20 minutes, no problems as far as i could see. it did miss on one cylinder slightly at idle. could have some oil or raw fuel on one of the plugs, so i'll have to adress that issue. also fixed the thermostat housing. monday is about my only day off so i'm going to try my best to get this thing finished up and ready to go back on the road. i need to get new registration and an inspection, also some insurance. thats another $275 or so. cant wait to get this thing finished and back to where it should be.

[HondaBoy]

well i finally got this thing together and on the road. drives pretty good. i think i'm going to need to tweek it some more with the carb and timing, but other than that runs pretty smooth and no problems. might want to run some 93+ octane in it too. doesnt ping or anything, but would probably run a little better with something that will burn a little slower. now i just need my registration which means i have to go down town and to the court house to get it. i want to get the air conditioning fixed because its starting to get pretty hot here. might put a whole new system in with all new components and have it warranteed. that would be nice.

[88Accord-DX]

Good deal.

Do you just crimp that Air suction pipe pipe off the intake for the weber or what? Trying to see what I need to do for the Weber set up.

[HondaBoy]

well the pipe that connects to the intake i took out of the fitting. then filled the fitting with JB weld and put it back since i couldnt find a plug that size. i did crimp the pipes on the header though, no problems since i've had the header which was a while back now. i'll take some new pix i suppose to show what i've done since this weber setup is pretty vague to most of us.