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deevergote
10-17-2007, 01:37 PM
The motor will be rebuilt with cheapie components... just to get some hands-on experience building a motor (that is very forgiving... and inexpensive), and to get the car on the road.

However, my ultimate plan is...





Some of you guys are going to hate this....







http://www.cb7tuner.com/chopsig.jpg



That's a KA24DE. Photoshopped (I thought I did a lousy job, but it fooled some people!)

My thought is to get a junker 240sx that has a straight frame and cut it up. Cut out the subframe, at least front and rear. Cut a driveshaft tunnel in the floor of the CA, and replace the Accord subframe with the Nissan's. Basically, it'd turn the Accord into a 240sx that looks like a 1986 Accord Hatchback. If I can weld the 240sx parts as whole pieces (I expect to use the "engine bay" and the rear tub), I can maintain the proper suspension geometry... so I don't have to re-engineer anything.

I would then have the RWD drivetrain, suspension, and engine options of the 240sx (which are all fantastic), but in a much more unique shell. Any ricer can rip around in a 240sx... but having a RWD 3g hatch is just cool! I'm going to try to keep it as stock-looking as possible.


I went to the junkyard yesterday, and I measured a 240sx and an SE-i (leather, cupholder, armrest, Bose, rear discs... I really need to go back with money and get that stuff!). Oddly enough, the Accord is a little WIDER (at least from rotor to rotor), and the engine bay dimensions are very similar. I honestly believe the 240 underguts would fit. It'd take a buttload of welding, and I'd have to build a 2 car garage in my back yard to contain what is going to be a very lengthy and ugly project... but I truly think it can be done!

http://www.cb7tuner.com/measurements/measurements.htm
These are my findings... just a brief prelim measurement trip... nothing detailed yet.


Now, I know the Honda purists are going to hate this, because I'm bastardizing the Accord with Nissan parts... I agree. I hate the fact that I have to go Nissan as well... but the 240sx is the only car I could get cheap enough, that has sufficient suspension options and a similar size! The S2000 isn't practical (yes, I used the word practical in this thread :lol: ) for a "lets see if this works" project! If it works, I plan on doing an S2000 conversion to a CB.



Is this going to happen? I hope so. I know it's quite an undertaking. Is it going to be easy? I don't expect it to be. I don't yet have a garage, nor do I know how to weld. I expect to build a garage, learn some welding skills, and get the help of at least one skilled welder in the final project. If I know enough to do some quick tack welds myself, it'll be enough to get things going.

This here is my inspiration (RWD GTP, done with a procedure similar to my plans)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/665715/

russiankid
10-17-2007, 01:42 PM
And this is going to be rwd? How are you going to do that in a 3gee without it looking retarded?

deevergote
10-17-2007, 01:44 PM
How would it look retarded?

BITESIZE
10-17-2007, 01:46 PM
And this is going to be rwd? How are you going to do that in a 3gee without it looking retarded?

If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all...









































































Except this is the internet, so say what you want.

deevergote
10-17-2007, 01:50 PM
Eh, I wouldn't say it's not nice... just, I'd like to know what he means by it so I can respond! Part of my reason for sharing this idea is to get some feedback... someone may think of something that might make this more difficult (or impossible) that I totally overlooked!

Civic Accord Honda
10-17-2007, 01:50 PM
lol awesome hope this really does happen would be bad ass :D

86AccordLxi
10-17-2007, 02:04 PM
Seems mostly dumb to me, but it's your time/money.

The rear subframe from a 240 is a bolt in affair. There's 4 studs that some out of the unibody, and the suframe just bolts to that.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother switch to a mac-strut setup in the front--the doulbe wishbones are better for handling. The rear multilink in the 240 is ok, but front susp is :-/.

As many ricers come on here talking about the h22 swap they want to do, this is almost worse.

Alex

deevergote
10-17-2007, 02:10 PM
I was going to do the H22 swap... :lol: I've got one being built, and one coming out of my 4G that's getting replaced.

I do understand that for what I'm thinking, getting a 240sx would be WAY more practical... but then I'm stuck with something common. Something everyone else has. If I make a RWD Accord, it's something that nobody (or nearly nobody) has... and it's a car I really like! The 3G hatch is one of the best looking Accords ever, IMO (along with all the 4th gen, the 6th gen wagon, and the 6th gen coupe)

I'll have to look into keeping the Accord front suspension. Although the 240's design is pretty crappy up front, there is a considerable suspension aftermarket for it... the 3G is lacking in that area.





Don't worry... I'm not a ricer.

86AccordLxi
10-17-2007, 02:12 PM
You say that, but there's no point to make a 3g rwd and ka-powered.

Seriously, if you can get a 240 cheap, just buy it and drive it. There's so much aftermarket for it, it'll make your head asplode.

Alex

Civic Accord Honda
10-17-2007, 02:13 PM
You say that, but there's no point to make a 3g rwd and ka-powered.

Seriously, if you can get a 240 cheap, just buy it and drive it. There's so much aftermarket for it, it'll make your head asplode.

Alex
but a RWD 3g hatch is one of a kind and IMO looks better :tongue:

deevergote
10-17-2007, 02:26 PM
It's the sake of making something that's different. I mean, I've been a Honda guy for years... and I've stuck to the Accord, rather than going to a Civic or Integra (which are lighter and have MUCH more aftermarket support...)

I can get a 240sx, slap in an sr20det, or even go balls-out and do an rb26dett... and what do I have? Something that you can see in any magazine's Reader's Rides section in any given month.

Not that I care about magazine features... I could care less. But to know that I'm sitting in my Accord, spinning my rear wheels... that would make me happier than sitting in a 240sx doing the same thing. Granted, for what it'll end up costing me to do this, I could have a hell of an RB swapped 240... :lol:

I know it isn't practical... but if I was after practicality, I'd stop tuning Accords. Hell, I'd stop tuning Hondas. What it is is more important than what it does... well... doing what it does, being what it is. :lol:

MessyHonda
10-17-2007, 02:38 PM
saw the sig over at cb7.....and your hood would not clear

86AccordLxi
10-17-2007, 02:38 PM
The only problem with being original is that it will cost you 3x as much as you think. There's a reason there's tried and true methods of modifying every car. My 240 setup isn't original, but it's more uncommon than most, and it cost me a lot more money than I anticipated.

I think you're biting off more than you can chew.

Alex

bobafett
10-17-2007, 02:40 PM
This truly is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard about...

First off, the KA24 is a 'decent' motor, but nothing to write home about. I guess it depends what you want to do with your motor. For the amount of money and time you will have into this hideous beast of a car, why not just build something that doesn't suck...

If you want to get into bastardizing something, do a v8 in an rx7 or miata. I certainly don't use the word practical very often, but this plan doesn't even make sense to me.

Toyota already made a 3g accord that is RWD and has sr swaps frequently.... seriously the cars look identical to ours and guess what they were MEANT to be rwd.

If you want to do a stupid accord project, either do something reasonable and stupid, like K series honda swap, or do something crazy and stupid like a v8. its not going to be any harder than the KA swap, but it will be way cooler. :)

seriously just sit back and think about what you are suggesting. spending thousands to put a 160 hp motor in a car that will NEVER handle properly and not be fast... sounds like a waste of time.

honestly the fwd 3g accord is just not the car to make some crazy project out of. build some gnarly sand rail or go kart if you want to do something weird.

of course this is just my opinion. i would be happy to smoke a rwd ka powered 3g any day of the week! lol...

BITESIZE
10-17-2007, 02:50 PM
You and CAH should get together and build this.

deevergote
10-17-2007, 02:50 PM
Well, I'll be swapping in the whole s13 "engine bay" if you will... so anything that would fit in a 240sx would fit in the 3g. Putting a slim radiator in the 3G engine bay will make it just about as long as the 240's bay.

I could do an sr20det later on, and probably will if I can pull it off... the KA is cheap, and decent for the application. I'm not sure if the Accord will gain weight from this operation, but if not, then I'll be hauling around at least 200lbs less than a 240sx. It's not so much the motor anyway (I realize my first post makes it seem like I'm stoked about the KA). It's the RWD conversion that matters, and the fact that the Accord dimensions are similar enough to the s13 to make it a possibility. The KA is just easily obtainable.




I was wondering when someone would mention the AE86. And yeah, that thought has crossed my mind as well. But again, just like the 240sx with the current drift craze... it's just something everyone has. It's not an Accord. (not that it'll be much of an Accord after I'm done... but at least it'll still look like one!)



Basically, I want to do it for the very same reasons as the GTP conversion in the link above... The Pontiac Grand Prix GTP isn't a great car (I know... I have one...) but the owner loved it. He wanted RWD... so rather than get a Firebird or a Grand National, he used parts from those cars to convert the car he loved into what he wanted it to be.

bobafett
10-17-2007, 02:54 PM
Well I commend your enthusiasm... If you really think you are up for it then go for it. Certainly dumping 12k on a turbo accord I haven't driven in 2 years is a terrible idea, but I'm not planning on stopping anytime soon. :)

*Heres to bad ideas!*

86AccordLxi
10-17-2007, 03:00 PM
It just doesn't make sense to take two capable cars, and then make some sort of bastardized hybrid that probably won't be as good as each car individually.

Alex

BITESIZE
10-17-2007, 03:02 PM
It just doesn't make sense to take two capable cars, and then make some sort of bastardized hybrid that probably won't be as good as each car individually.

Alex

I love it, coming from a moderator...lol

deevergote
10-17-2007, 03:04 PM
Well I commend your enthusiasm... If you really think you are up for it then go for it. Certainly dumping 12k on a turbo accord I haven't driven in 2 years is a terrible idea, but I'm not planning on stopping anytime soon. :)

*Heres to bad ideas!*


:lol: Cheers!


Any investment into an automobile is a waste of time and money... you do it for the love. Anyone who is into oddball cars (at least when it comes to performance) like the Accord HAS to do it for the love of the car!

When I got the car, my original intent was to get a fully built motor and turbo kit from Sean. Everything fell apart shortly after. Now I have a 200+hp CB7 that I have great plans for, as well as a 240hp GTP (that will probably get a smaller pulley soon...). Another fast FWD car would be redundant now. I'd LOVE a Miata, Starion, Galant VR-4, Trans Am, or any number of RWD cars much better suited to my ideas... but I love the Accord. I love the idea of being different. I love the idea of saying "there. I did that." Stupid? Yeah, probably. But will I have fun doing it? Maybe. Will I have fun driving it? Without a doubt :D

deevergote
10-17-2007, 03:06 PM
It just doesn't make sense to take two capable cars, and then make some sort of bastardized hybrid that probably won't be as good as each car individually.

Alex

You're probably right. I am a bit concerned about significantly weakening the structure of the car by welding in the subframe... but while I'm welding, I can always do my best to re-enforce it as well. I mean, the car is welded together at the factory... so if I make my welds stronger, it can't be any worse!

But yeah, this will be combining two cars, and throwing any suspension engineering in the garbage. I'm relying on the similar size to keep that to a minimum.

86AccordLxi
10-17-2007, 03:09 PM
throwing any suspension engineering in the garbage. I'm relying on the similar size to keep that to a minimum.

As long as you acknowledge that. Honestly, reverting to macpherson struts is a step backwards in terms of suspension design. Rear multilink is fine, but takes up a lot of room. You might as well tube the back the accord, or shit, just tube the whole damned thing. It'll make it easier, I bet.

Just stitch weld that thing up, cage it (or foam fill the rails/chassis). Firewall forward the s13 is a wet noodle, so you WILL need to HEAVILY reinforce that end of things.


Alex

deevergote
10-17-2007, 03:25 PM
:lol: Yeah, I figure while I'm welding, I'll make it as strong as possible.

The only reason I'm considering retaining the front suspension is to a) keep the s13 engine bay intact, so mounting the motor won't be an issue (like I should be worrying about motor mounts when considering this project... :lol: ) and b) keep the s13 suspension matched on all 4 corners. It may be a crappier setup, but I'll eventually be able to upgrade to a nice coilover system. The Accord front suspension doesn't have the same sort of aftermarket support, and no matter what I do, it wouldn't match the rear anyway. Retaining the crappy 240 suspension will most likely keep more things balanced than mixing the two.

Or not... who knows? :lol: Maybe making the car RWD while retaining the Accord front suspension would be a kickass idea! :lol:
I have time to play around. This isn't starting next week. Probably not for a very long time, in fact. For now, I'm gathering information (and putting up with a lot of heckling... because in the midst of the heckling, I'm learning a lot... like the suspension, flimsy front end, and the fact that the rear subframe bolts on... all news to me!)

russiankid
10-17-2007, 03:34 PM
How would it look retarded?

What i mean is if you look how the Accord sits now, putting in a rear diff and pretty much redoing the whole suspension will may it look odd.

86AccordLxi
10-17-2007, 03:36 PM
You might as well buy a parts car and disassemble that--it'll teach you a lot. Dual cam cars tend to be more expensive, however because they're more desirable. You will have to make your own power steering lines, for sure, and maybe an oil pan when you realize what a PITA it is to graft in the front crossmember and eveyrthing else.

Stuff like gauges will have to be swapped from the 240. The speedo in the accord is cable driven; there's a vehicle speed sensor in the tranny of the 240. If you foam fill the front frame horns that will help a lot, but tubing the front end will make eeeeverything easier. I agree that susp. option are approximately 1,000,000 times better for an s13, where you can buy every arm with a spherical bearing at the end, including lower control arms, etc.

Alex

2ndGenGuy
10-17-2007, 04:01 PM
It might be easier to swap the Accord body on to the 240's Floorpan... :dunno:

deevergote
10-17-2007, 04:23 PM
It might be easier to swap the Accord body on to the 240's Floorpan... :dunno:

:lol: That's pretty much what I'll be doing!



Thanks for the tips, Alex. That's the kinda stuff I was hoping for (I forgot you had the 240 when I made this thread initially)

Power steering is something I'll figure out eventually. I don't have it in the CB7 at the moment (the system is fully intact... just cut the belt because the last shop I took the car to made it too tight... it was killing the pump. I hate when other people touch my car!) The lines won't be too hard to fab, though, if it comes to that. Although, I plan on using EVERYTHING from the 240, probably through the firewall, so the entire engine bay will be 240... the lines will probably be just as they are in the 240 (might even mod the 240 dash to fit, to make the HVAC stuff easier to deal with... the Accord has stuff in where the transmission hump has to go) The 240's dash is so simple, it's pretty cool. Though I'm still unsure how "Accord" I want to keep the interior. I'm sure the 240 gauge cluster can be worked into the 3G dash with some creativity!

When I finally get this going, I'm buying the S12 shell first. I'll try to find a really hideous one with no motor... I can probably get it for $200 rolling... as long as the understuff is in good shape, I don't care about the rest! I'll rip that down as far as I can go, selling or scrapping parts that I won't be using. I'll learn a lot about how it works then, and I'll figure out if it's doable before I ever touch the 3G with a saw or torch!
I work slowly... always have. I bought this hatchback in 2004, didn't touch it because my original plans got messed up. I sold it, got it back for free (oddly enough, 2 weeks prior, I began thinking how cool it would be to make one RWD... then it fell in my lap!) and now I'm making these plans. If I don't actually start doing anything until 2009, I won't feel like I've wasted time. Over that time, I'll be learning, planning, and figuring out the best route. Granted, when I finally do complete it, it'll be exactly what I want (unless I totally screw it up... always a possibility :D)



russiankid, I'm hoping it won't look retarded! The location to everything in the two cars is fairly relative, so as long as I position things correctly, it should sit fine.

knarg
10-17-2007, 04:30 PM
i would just have the 240sx!

A18A
10-17-2007, 04:38 PM
are you sure your plans wont change by the time 2009 comes?

Legend_master
10-17-2007, 04:44 PM
Why dont you jsut stick a k or H series in the rear of the car? Seems much easier then trying to get a rear end and all the other jazz to fit.

86AccordLxi
10-17-2007, 04:49 PM
Yup, like the DC integra in SCC this month with the mid mounted h22.

Alex

deevergote
10-17-2007, 04:59 PM
are you sure your plans wont change by the time 2009 comes?

They may... I've been wanting to do something good with this car for 3 years already though, and I've finally thought of a way to really make it into something fun... so it's doubtful.



As for the motor in the rear, I thought of that too... but to me, that makes it less of an Accord than using the Nissan parts! I want to retain a back seat :D

Legend_master
10-17-2007, 06:00 PM
They may... I've been wanting to do something good with this car for 3 years already though, and I've finally thought of a way to really make it into something fun... so it's doubtful.



As for the motor in the rear, I thought of that too... but to me, that makes it less of an Accord than using the Nissan parts! I want to retain a back seat :D



Ummm, less of an accord. I would have to say a rear engine h22 powered accord is more then a front engine rwd nissan powered accord. How about the s2000 motor and parts. Or an AWD b20 crv with drivetrain, mounted in the 3gee.

deevergote
10-17-2007, 06:39 PM
S2000 parts would cost WAY too much for a project that may or may not work... an s13 rolling shell could be found for $200 or so.

CRV I've considered... but that's a pretty weak setup. It'd be AWD, but a pretty useless AWD. If I can't put power through it, there's no point!

Hazwan
10-17-2007, 07:28 PM
It might be easier to swap the Accord body on to the 240's Floorpan... :dunno:

yeah kinda like the corvette with civic body. anyone have the link? I'm too lazy to find that.

snoopyloopy
10-17-2007, 07:32 PM
i say start here:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45177

RamThis
10-17-2007, 08:35 PM
If you're looking for practical, this is not the project. If you are looking for show points and braggin' rights, sounds like fun if you can figure out all the quirks.

But, one thing scares me, it sounds like you dont have much, if any mechanical experience, or fabrication experience, having mentioned you dont even know welding??? And you want to tackle a retrofit that even I as a mechanic of 12 years, and I have also built F-16's for a few years with Lockheed, find a daunting task with many engineering problems that will have to be overcome? Keep in mind, that when it's all finished, it has to be able to be safe at highway speeds. It would be a shame if you jalopy'd it together and got it working, only to have a suspension part snap loose due to a poor weld and have you veer off into oncoming traffic or something.

Really consider your personal mechanical talent/experience vs. the proposed project before you actually spend any money or cut any steel....... maybe you need to scale it back a bit for a first project to learn from....... :dunno:

deevergote
10-18-2007, 08:01 AM
i say start here:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45177

A friend of mine just presented that idea to me the other day, regarding the RWD Accord V6 (which is possible, he said... I haven't looked further)




And RamThis, you're right. I have NO welding experience. I do have friends that do, and my best friend's father is a professional welder (works in an oil yard, so his work is very precise). My intention is to get things lined up, and then have someone with considerable experience to make it solid. I'd only rely on whatever skill I learn to tack things in place. Unless, of course, I gain a good deal of skill and experience as this project progresses (which may happen... I'm not planning on this being a short-term project by any means!)

As for mechanical experience, I have some. I'm not a total automotive noob, but there are things I have yet to learn. Many of those things (such as building an engine, which won't even be necessary for this project) I will have learned long before I begin. I've pretty much done everything other than the internals of an engine or transmission. I've handled all the parts that I plan on working with in this project.

I'm definitely just going for something original. I don't really expect a daily driver to come of this, though it'd be nice if it worked out that way.

I'm using cars that are very inexpensive because this will be a definite learning experience. I want to do it to the Accord because I really LIKE the Accord... so it's worth the time and money to me. The s13 is very cheap (and my local junkyards frequently have multiple shells with absolutely no damage) I expect to take my time, and I won't halfass anything (for safety and quality reasons...) If I have to do it, undo it, redo it, and undo it again... so be it. If I start disassembling the s13 in 2008, and the car is completed in 2013...so be it! Of course, I may get to the point where it's smarter to pay to have things done... like the guy with the GTP did.

lostforawhile
10-18-2007, 02:38 PM
I like this idea,it's not to be practical,it's to build something unique. street rods are not made to be practical. you shouldn't have emissions issues eithier,because it would be considered a hot rod,or a custom vechical, since it never came rear wheel drive,and it's a hybrid. it's too far changed from original to be considered stock. i've seen several threads on this turn into garbage and be locked,but you seem to have an actual plan. first time i've seen that yet on this concept. most of the ideas were far flung ideas.you have the right idea on friends helping too, nobody really builds a car like this by themselves,it's a good project to share with your friends. I'm not a very good welder myself, but i have friends who are aircraft welders, and my project would not exist without them. cars are build not for practical reasons,but for the sake of doing it,and spending times with your buds you'll never forget.

lostforawhile
10-18-2007, 02:43 PM
Ummm, less of an accord. I would have to say a rear engine h22 powered accord is more then a front engine rwd nissan powered accord. How about the s2000 motor and parts. Or an AWD b20 crv with drivetrain, mounted in the 3gee.what about the crv motor,with the nissan rear,then it would be more honda. all you would have to do is have a driveshaft made with the proper ends. there are lots of companies out there that do the driveshafts all the time. i've actually heard of the crv engines in lightweight street rods before.

deevergote
10-18-2007, 02:48 PM
Thanks!

I'm just in the planning stages now (which is why I'm looking for feedback, and welcome even the worst of heckling) It's far from becoming a reality. Even far from being started... But so far, the costs to get in rolling seem doable, and I have yet to come across a snag that I couldn't find a way around... theoretically, of course. Once I begin, then we'll see the strength of my plans!

But yeah, I'm not some 16 year old kid with grand dreams for his first car. I'm 27, I own a home, I'm self employed (which, at the moment, is giving me plenty of time, and a little extra money to play with... a part time job or two might be in order to seriously play). I've got a 2002 GTP (my beater) and my 92 Accord (my good car :D)... so the hatchback is really just a toy. I really like the design, and I feel it's worth the time, effort, and expense to make something cool out of it!

deevergote
10-18-2007, 02:57 PM
what about the crv motor,with the nissan rear,then it would be more honda. all you would have to do is have a driveshaft made with the proper ends. there are lots of companies out there that do the driveshafts all the time. i've actually heard of the crv engines in lightweight street rods before.

Eh, the CRV is technically a FWD car with a rear driveshaft, though. The B20 is a transversely mounted engine, as opposed to the longitudinally mounted KA24DE. If I were to use the B20. I COULD make it AWD, but the CRV stuff isn't really made to put down much power... It'd be cool, but having an AWD car that can't put down worthwhile power would be a waste! :lol: Even with the s13 rear end, I'd still be dealing with that Honda transfer case. It could possibly be altered to mount longitudinally, but I'm not sure which direction it spins in relation to the KA... many FWD engines spin the opposite way, which means I'd have one short drive gear and 5 reverse gears!

If I want to go Honda in the engine bay down the road, I'll just pull the KA and drop in an F20C. RWD is much easier to do crazy swaps, since all you have to worry about is the driveshaft angle. No front drive axle angle issues to worry about!

As I said though... I'll probably stick to the cheaper stuff with the 86, as this will be a test run. If it's successful, I'll do an s2000 conversion to a CB7 (my first Accord love). I figure, if I can source two wrecked S2000s with no motors, they'll be pretty cheap... one front wreck, one rear wreck... take the good subframes from both, and build the car. That way, I'm not destroying a good s2k (or paying for it!). Then I'll just source an F20C or F22C. That's way too much money to play with now, though... the cheap 3g and s13 are perfect candidates for the first project! A car I like, mixed with a car that has lots of options and support... both at a fairly low cost.


(the s2000 was actually my initial idea, and I've dumbed it down to the Nissan since :D)

86AccordLxi
10-18-2007, 03:04 PM
Good luck with finding a running 240 for $200.

Alex

deevergote
10-18-2007, 03:20 PM
Running? No. Motorless with peeling paint and a trashed interior... I think it's possible :D


The goal is to get the car set up for RWD... the motor can come later. And a post-swap KA24DE is dirt cheap. I sold my F22A with the transmission for $50 after my H22 swap... there are people out there that don't value what they have, or can't store it (that was my case... it was $50 or in the trash!)

86AccordLxi
10-18-2007, 03:26 PM
The price of a running dual cam is going higher though. I don't think I've really seen a running one go for less than $300, locally, and most people are asking ~$500. Plus the tranny is an extra $100 or so.

What are you going to do for the clutch and pedal assembly? The 240 clutch is hydraulic, not cable.

Alex

deevergote
10-18-2007, 03:30 PM
I'll probably take the entire firewall, perhaps even that floor section. I expect the whole steering, pedal, and of course shift assembly to be the 240 parts. The gauge cluster as well. I may just find a way to make the whole 240 dash fit too, since the Accord HVAC stuff will have to be moved to accommodate the trans hump. If I just put ALL 240 stuff in there, it'll be easier to retain functionality than it would be to try to make the Accord stuff work.

If I want to keep a Honda look, I may try to get a 4th gen dash to fit. It would probably be easier to fit the 240 gauge cluster in there than in the 3G dash. The 4th gen is set in, like the 240. The 3g has the pod. I actually thought about swapping in a 4th gen dash anyway, just to be different (though I DO like the 3g dash)

86AccordLxi
10-18-2007, 03:54 PM
If you're planning all that, it sure as hell sounds like this car will be terrifying in the structural rigidity dept.

Alex

BITESIZE
10-18-2007, 04:00 PM
I still think you and CAH should do this together.

deevergote
10-18-2007, 04:01 PM
Perhaps. That's something I'll have to figure out when I really get down into it. I mean, people do RHD conversions by hacking out the firewall, so this will be very similar. Plus, if I do strong, solid welds along the entire seam, it can't be any worse than the factory welds!

deevergote
10-18-2007, 04:05 PM
I still think you and CAH should do this together.

Sure. He's enthusiastic and supportive.

Or maybe I'll just keep it stock, paint it red, and put some 17s on it. Then I'll be special :D

Heckling is fine. Telling me it's a stupid idea is fine. But if you're going to take the time to post, at least give me a reason. Otherwise, you've made your point.

I expect a good deal of opposition. I'm getting it. But the large majority of the people that question my plans are giving me reasons why it might not work (like Alex... who has honestly helped a great deal with his questions).

BITESIZE
10-18-2007, 04:07 PM
I think you are wasting your time and money. I'm not going to be an asshole, just state my opinion and maybe do a little heckling. Pull it off and throw it back in my face. I hope you do.

deevergote
10-18-2007, 04:12 PM
You've stated your opinion. Twice. I get it. Most people think it's a waste of money. In reality, it probably is. But then again, there's a good 15k sunk into my CB7. For that price, I could buy a stock SRT-4 and have a faster car in stock form. I don't simply want a RWD car... if that's all I wanted, I'd just buy one. I want to make THIS car RWD.

86AccordLxi
10-18-2007, 04:14 PM
Perhaps. That's something I'll have to figure out when I really get down into it. I mean, people do RHD conversions by hacking out the firewall, so this will be very similar. Plus, if I do strong, solid welds along the entire seam, it can't be any worse than the factory welds!

People do rhd conversions using firewalls that were meant to go into the same chassis, utilizing the same spots that the factory uses to weld in the firewall. That's different from eyeballing a couple cars of vaguely similar size and getting it to work.

Alex

BITESIZE
10-18-2007, 04:17 PM
Pictures of the cb7.........Now!

deevergote
10-18-2007, 04:23 PM
People do rhd conversions using firewalls that were meant to go into the same chassis, utilizing the same spots that the factory uses to weld in the firewall. That's different from eyeballing a couple cars of vaguely similar size and getting it to work.

Alex

Very true. Though if they're similar size, it would be possible to match the cut to fit. Some trimming would be necessary, but I think it could be made to be a fairly close fit, where I would need minimal sheetmetal patches. Both cars that I measured had the motors in them. I'll keep an eye out for some motorless cars so I can take more detailed measurements of the firewall (well, my Accord can be measured when I pull the A20A... should be soon... I just need to get off my butt and do it!)

Legend_master
10-18-2007, 04:23 PM
what about the crv motor,with the nissan rear,then it would be more honda. all you would have to do is have a driveshaft made with the proper ends. there are lots of companies out there that do the driveshafts all the time. i've actually heard of the crv engines in lightweight street rods before.


I dont see why that couldn't work. The only weak link in the CRV drivetrain is the rear end. The tranny and transfer case would be solid (especially if you ahd them cryo treated). You would not have to worry about some crazy engine bay modification, or shift linkage. The only difficult part would be converting from cable to hydraulic clutch, but that would still be less work them welding two cars together.

BITESIZE
10-18-2007, 04:24 PM
I'd like to really state my opinion....

I think it's the stupidest idea I've ever heard of on 3geez.com and I've been lurking around here for over 6 years. Whewwww....I got it out.

deevergote
10-18-2007, 04:30 PM
Pictures of the cb7.........Now!
:D

I really need some better pictures... the second one is a few days ago... I have tires waiting to go on my Hanabis sitting on the floor next to me... at the moment, I'm going ricer style with half steelies and half alloys!

http://img16.echo.cx/img16/1493/dsc014052ve.jpg
http://www.cb7tuner.com/hatch2007/shinycb.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid146/p8e98a6bbaa85c601c3dcd51a5e90ba04/f64cbbf0.jpg



I'd like to really state my opinion....

I think it's the stupidest idea I've ever heard of on 3geez.com and I've been lurking around here for over 6 years. Whewwww....I got it out.
Good. Now stick around and see if it works :p

86AccordLxi
10-18-2007, 04:35 PM
Small pic, but I think i see an internal wg actuator under that heatshield lolol.

Rad.

Alex

deevergote
10-18-2007, 04:37 PM
lol nah, totally NA. I'm building another H22 for it though... the goal is about 220whp. Not too lofty, but it'll be a nice street car.

86AccordLxi
10-18-2007, 04:40 PM
Ah, never mind then.

Alex

deevergote
10-18-2007, 04:46 PM
I thought about going turbo, but that seems like a waste of an H22. I had another that was going to be turbo, but I ran the rear into a wall :( The F22A is a better turbo candidate anyway.


But anyway... enough about the CB7... I've got a whole website dedicated to that model :D

Keep the doubts about the RWD hatch coming! By defending my idea, I'm able to consider plenty of things that I would otherwise not even think of! As I said before, Alex... you've been an immense help already, since you know both cars pretty well.

RamThis
10-18-2007, 06:04 PM
I still think you and CAH should do this together.



haha, It'd be rainbow colors, with a double wing, garden edging body kit, and 20's.....

Thats just wrong...... :Owned:

lostforawhile
10-18-2007, 06:07 PM
I dont see why that couldn't work. The only weak link in the CRV drivetrain is the rear end. The tranny and transfer case would be solid (especially if you ahd them cryo treated). You would not have to worry about some crazy engine bay modification, or shift linkage. The only difficult part would be converting from cable to hydraulic clutch, but that would still be less work them welding two cars together.
the clutch is very easy,you take a clutch master cyl out of anything honda with a hydraulic clutch,most have the same fittings, you use a spherical ball joint to attach that rod to the arm on your clutch pedal,then bolt the clutch master cyl to a spot you reinforce on the firewall,you push the pedal,it pushes on the clutch master cyl push rod,and that activates the clutch. it's actually eaisier to do with a swap with a hydraulic clutch,the cable doesn't have to line up, you may have to lenghten or shorten the push rod, but this should be easy.

deevergote
10-18-2007, 06:14 PM
Is it bad that after reading that, the idea of welding in the 240sx firewall and engine bay seems easier? :lol: (no, I'm not really expecting it to be easy :D)

Civic Accord Honda
10-18-2007, 06:16 PM
haha, It'd be rainbow colors, with a double wing, garden edging body kit, and 20's.....

Thats just wrong...... :Owned::thumbdn:

forrest89sei
10-18-2007, 06:18 PM
Good Luck on the Build :wave:

BITESIZE
10-18-2007, 06:40 PM
:thumbdn:

Truth hurts Mr. Blake Smith. btw I still love you!:wave:

lostforawhile
10-18-2007, 06:44 PM
don't forget to use these:
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/51014123/Drywall_Screws.jpg
to attach these in your car
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/mickey-mouse-speakers1.jpg

BITESIZE
10-18-2007, 06:45 PM
don't forget to use these:
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/51014123/Drywall_Screws.jpg
to attach these in your car
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/mickey-mouse-speakers1.jpg

Omg, lost you are one of kin!

lostforawhile
10-18-2007, 06:48 PM
Omg, lost you are one of kin!i forgot to tell him not to hammer them in and bend them over like somebody else we know....ahem.

BITESIZE
10-18-2007, 06:52 PM
wtf is with the mickey mouse ear pieces? I'm lost.....Mr. lost!

lostforawhile
10-18-2007, 06:59 PM
wtf is with the mickey mouse ear pieces? I'm lost.....Mr. lost!
have you seen mr dark cah geo accord whatevers new "mickey mouse speaker" anchored in with long bent over drywall screws? if cah is going to help him cah can put in the audio system.

A18A
10-18-2007, 07:03 PM
which means I'd have one short drive gear and 5 reverse gears!that could be simply solved by flipping the diff lol

Civic Accord Honda
10-18-2007, 07:03 PM
Omg Ibtl

bobafett
10-18-2007, 09:42 PM
I thought about going turbo, but that seems like a waste of an H22.

BUZZ WRONG ANSWER

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?topic=76531.0

:) i would say h22 turbo is a worthwhile endevour. and there is always jeff's gf's built h22 turbo. :)

and stuff like this...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dt7qaIb-QNQ

yeah definitely a waste!

lostforawhile
10-18-2007, 09:55 PM
which means I'd have one short drive gear and 5 reverse gears!that only works on french tanks

BITESIZE
10-18-2007, 10:15 PM
http://www.ricesigns.com/real_pictures/bump_signs.jpg

Demon1024
10-18-2007, 10:57 PM
f'ing props on the project man. i've always wanted to do this. donut doing, drift driving 3g! HELL YEAH! if ur going to go into the body to run the driveshaft wont the gas tank still be in the way? i really dont' know what i'm talking about BUT Hell yeah man do it post it brag on it!

deevergote
10-19-2007, 05:10 AM
BUZZ WRONG ANSWER

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?topic=76531.0

:) i would say h22 turbo is a worthwhile endevour. and there is always jeff's gf's built h22 turbo. :)

and stuff like this...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dt7qaIb-QNQ

yeah definitely a waste!

I'm not saying the H22 isn't capable of making good power. I know two guys with 600+hp H22s. I'm well aware of the potential. However, a turbo F22 can be pushed well beyond comfortable streetable limits without the initial cost of the H22 motor. The F22 head flows considerably well (when modified, much better than a B18 head, according to Bisi Ezerioha). Raw horsepower isn't all that makes a car... especailly a FWD car. Push FWD beyond 400whp and streetability goes out the window.
For my H22 inspiration, check out Scott Byars (2point6 on most boards), the owner of Collective Racing. His H22, before it finally gave out at 60,000 miles, ran 12.7 in a 90 Accord (weighing about 2500lbs) at Firebird Raceway. At the time, it was only making about 247whp. He drove it daily, and claimed 28mpg on average. He eventually put the motor in a Civic, got it up to 270something whp, and then it gave out... and the Civic was lost as well (stupid situation). He's now rebuilding and putting it back in the Accord. My goals for the H22 aren't even up to his 247whp mark... I'll be happy with 220whp and mid-13s at Atco Raceway :D The CB7 is a daily driver. I actually only drive the GTP for work (I put 30,000 miles on it since March!). I want the CB7 to be efficient, reliable, comfortable, and fun to drive. 600hp turbo might be cool... but throw efficiency and comfort out the window (with a severe blow to possible reliability... one more system that can fail)


ANYWAY... back to the project at hand... Demon1024, I've been thinking about the gastank situation. I haven't taken any measurements yet, but I may use the 240sx underbelly to the point of the gastank, so I can use the 240sx gastank as well. I have to see how far into the Accord I'll have to cut for that. If I'm not comfortable with that idea, then I'll just use an aftermarket fuel cell. I'd rather use the OEM stuff if possible, though!

Civic Accord Honda
10-19-2007, 12:18 PM
Honissanda 240accord Sx-i Ftw

russiankid
10-19-2007, 12:34 PM
I'm not saying the H22 isn't capable of making good power. I know two guys with 600+hp H22s. I'm well aware of the potential. However, a turbo F22 can be pushed well beyond comfortable streetable limits without the initial cost of the H22 motor. The F22 head flows considerably well (when modified, much better than a B18 head, according to Bisi Ezerioha). Raw horsepower isn't all that makes a car... especailly a FWD car. Push FWD beyond 400whp and streetability goes out the window.
For my H22 inspiration, check out Scott Byars (2point6 on most boards), the owner of Collective Racing. His H22, before it finally gave out at 60,000 miles, ran 12.7 in a 90 Accord (weighing about 2500lbs) at Firebird Raceway. At the time, it was only making about 247whp. He drove it daily, and claimed 28mpg on average. He eventually put the motor in a Civic, got it up to 270something whp, and then it gave out... and the Civic was lost as well (stupid situation). He's now rebuilding and putting it back in the Accord. My goals for the H22 aren't even up to his 247whp mark... I'll be happy with 220whp and mid-13s at Atco Raceway :D The CB7 is a daily driver. I actually only drive the GTP for work (I put 30,000 miles on it since March!). I want the CB7 to be efficient, reliable, comfortable, and fun to drive. 600hp turbo might be cool... but throw efficiency and comfort out the window (with a severe blow to possible reliability... one more system that can fail)


ANYWAY... back to the project at hand... Demon1024, I've been thinking about the gastank situation. I haven't taken any measurements yet, but I may use the 240sx underbelly to the point of the gastank, so I can use the 240sx gastank as well. I have to see how far into the Accord I'll have to cut for that. If I'm not comfortable with that idea, then I'll just use an aftermarket fuel cell. I'd rather use the OEM stuff if possible, though!

With that power, traction will be lost.

deevergote
10-19-2007, 12:38 PM
Exactly. 400whp is about the streetable limit for FWD. You CAN drive cars with more, but why? The guys I know with 600+ don't drive their cars every day. Plus, I have forced induction with my GTP :D (and that thing can already spin through 2nd on dry pavement)


And I was thinking... 240ca or 240lx-i :lol: (might bastardize some badges to make that work, too! :D)