PDA

View Full Version : 87 Turbo Accord



Coopstar124
11-02-2007, 10:51 AM
Alright, recently I've been looking into putting a turbo system in my car and I'm not sure what the best route is. I've read up a lot on how everything works. Originally I thought I would just find a kit or something along those lines but as you all know its hard to find those kind of things for the 87's. Whats the best way to go to put in turbo and what else should I do? As of now all I've done is installed a short ram intake so my performance hasn't been boosted too much. Other than that my car is stock and I don't want to kill it by making a mistake giving it turbo so I wan't to know the dangers before I get myself in too deep. Thanks.

irondragon013
11-02-2007, 11:00 AM
How many miles, and transmission type will help us answer your questions. You will probly need a rebuild. Also how much power or psi are you looking for?

steven

Coopstar124
11-02-2007, 11:12 AM
My car has around 180k miles. It has a A20A3 Engine. 5 spd also. My goal is to get it up to 200 hp but I would settle for less considering my cars age. I was hoping to avoid an engine swap. I don't need an ungodly powerful turbo just enough to make my car fairly impressive. I pretty much decided to try and attempt this since there are no 87 accord in my area that are any good. I wanna show that an old accord can still kick ass. I just don't know if its possible without a massive overhaul.

irondragon013
11-02-2007, 11:23 AM
I think you need to rebuild before you turbo. I will let someone else give you more info. But I would say you have too many miles for turbo with out a rebuild.

Steven

Coopstar124
11-02-2007, 11:38 AM
Thats kinda what I was afraid of. Most importantly I don't want to end up killing my car and end up spending even more money after the turbo.

MessyHonda
11-02-2007, 01:05 PM
i know some one here that has a manifold and downpipe for a turbo...but you will need a way to control the timing and fuel.


if you turbo plan to spend at least 1200 bucks

Coopstar124
11-02-2007, 01:51 PM
Well I know its gonna be pretty expensive to put in turbo but I know that if I can get it to work it would be well worth the time and money. I also was wondering if I could strip a turbo out of another car and install that with some modification. The whole point of this post was to find out if anyone had put a turbo in an 87 accord and see how difficult it is going to be to get the parts and install them.

labeledsk8r
11-02-2007, 02:14 PM
yes people have turboed a20a3's. its not cheep either, you need to not only make your exhaust flanges and charge pipes, but you need to swap to obd1 or a stand alone so you can controle that turbo. i "MIGHT" be able to run like 6psi if your car has good compresion, i would sugest testing your cylinders and seeing were you stand, but a stock rebuild allways helps but i dont think i would put more then 10psi onto a stock engine becuse weak points will show there teath. theres really no easy way around it if you want a fast turbo car and want it to last you have to bild the engine

snoopyloopy
11-02-2007, 02:25 PM
dump a good 2g into rebuilding a stock block with some quality forged parts (most of which will probably end up being custom). maybe sleeve the block. then boost it. i think you could run at least a good 20-25 psi on a well-built specimen of these engines. they have an iron block, just address the weak rods/pistons and you're in business. and lower compression a bit. dsm engines use 7.8:1 compression on the old 4g63t and still push out 200 hp. so lowering our compression to say even 8.5:1 should push some life into it. and if you're really adventurous, for engine management, convert to dsm ecu and run dsmlink. if ppl trust that program to run their dsms at 30+ psi, i'll trust my 15 psi a20a3 to it too. probably wouldn't be THAT much harder than obd-1 swap unless they use different voltage readings for the sensors.

2oodoor
11-02-2007, 02:42 PM
Hey, Irondragon13, whaz up... havent seen you on in a while, :wave:

Coopstar///That mileage is ok, probably just right if you ask me. You just need to reseal everything a little. If you read up here in the technical section, there is a practically infinite knowledge base to answere any question you may have..

Coopstar124
11-02-2007, 04:53 PM
Well thanks for the help everyone. It looks like I'm going to have to do a rebuild of the engine. Which is probably a good thing to do anyway. Looks like the turbo might be on hold for a while. Thank god I love my car enough to actually want to put this kinda work into it. Where is there info on how to do a whole rebuild? I don't even know where to get started on that. Most of my experience working on my car has been minor engine work and electrical work so any instructions of tips out there would really help.

snoopyloopy
11-02-2007, 05:20 PM
haynes manual ftw. go pick one up and add it to your library asap.

guaynabo89
11-03-2007, 11:11 AM
Well... The part that holds back the a20 as far as management is the fact it doesnt have a crank angle sensor. Thats why you either switch to obd1 to be able to use the distributor with a crank sensor in it or mount a crank trigger wheel on the crankshaft pulley. Which leads me to the most important part.



Before you buy any turbo parts, rebuild, (if you want) etc, You need to figure out what you will be using to manage this turbo motor. The bottom line is fmu, btm will not get you what you need and for the price of those parts you could get an obd1 ecu and have it chipped and dyno tuned. You need to figure out what shops are around you and what systems they use to tune to see if any of those will fit your needs.

Unfortunately just to have some way to properly control the engine is going to run you at least 3-400 plus. Depending on your fab and wiring skills that price could sky rocket if you need to have someone make mount crank sensors and wire things up.


In all honesty depending how much you really want to spend it would be easire starting with a obd1 honda or just any other platform that will allow you to tune easily due to aftermarket parts.


If you budget and dont rebuild, and your motor is still healthy I would figure around 1800 on turbo parts and some way to control it. That is of course if you do all the work yourself. Someone that can tune fairly well should be able to get you set up righ on a stock motor with a smaller turbo like one off an evo or something.



Oh and this is my setup.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/sinnedone/Picture2734.jpg



Just on the turbo parts alone I've spent 3,500+.

Not to mention my motor was already built so I didnt have to rebuild to do this. So realisticly you need to sit down and read up on what exactly you want to do and how exactly are you going to do it. Then figure out how much money its going to cost you. After all that youll know how you want to procede. Either continue with the projectcause you like the car or start with something else that will be cheaper.

2oodoor
11-03-2007, 01:57 PM
when I see your engine I get a big case of shut the hell up:cheers:
very nice

bobafett
11-04-2007, 04:14 PM
yeah i don't think that 180k necessarily means a rebuild, but it is not a bad idea to reinforce things if you are planning on boosting.

also consider that the cost of a stock rebuild is just a tiny fraction of what you will spend to properly turbo the car. You might even start off by buying a spare block and head from a junkyard to perform the rebuild on.

I would reccomend at least getting forged rods and pistons, and ARP head studs. Get your entire bottom end balanced, and replace the bearings with GOOD bearings. Use OEM honda, or acl/clevite/king tri-metal bearings. at this point you haven't spent a ton, but you have done a lot to ensure the longevity of your motor. Do it right the first time and you will save a lot of $$$ in the long run.

As for tuning, I think at the moment, the obd1 + <tuning program of choice> is the best choice for most people. And due to the popularity of that platform, there will be lots of people (not on this forum necessarily) to help you out.

200 hp should be very very very easy to achieve on a stock rebuilt a20, even if you save the 1k and go with stock pistons/rods. Just get an actual good plan for a good engine management solution, and don't skimp on the fuel.

Sounds like you are pretty realistic about the project which is always a good thing going into it. Let us know when you come up with questions....

and check out my build http://www.a20turbo.com/features/chris/

Coopstar124
11-04-2007, 05:50 PM
Well one thing I do need to know is where to get parts for this project. I'd like to keep costs down if at all possible. But I don't want to put anything into my car that is going to cause problems in the future.

bobafett
11-05-2007, 10:12 AM
then dont turbo it. turboing non turbo vehicles is a pita for the most part, and you will run into weird hurdles, and lots of strange problems. as far as i know, most of the guys on here who have turbo setups have either blown a motor or two, or are still in the process of getting stuff going and fighting it along the way.

seriously if you arent prepared for the headaches I would say quit now while you are ahead!

if you want help finding specific parts we can certainly help, but what exactly are you thinking you will have trouble finding? about the only thing that doesnt exist is head parts and NEW cams. most of the important bits are doable.

so what are you looking for?

Coopstar124
11-05-2007, 01:30 PM
I just need to know if there is anywhere that is known to sell low quality parts so I can avoid that. Also should I avoid buying a turbocharger on ebay?

guaynabo89
11-05-2007, 05:08 PM
How about this.

Used or really cheap parts used (cheap price not quality) with not rebuilding your engine set yourself a budget of 1800 dollars including tuning if you can get the management issue worked out cheap.


If you cant affor 1800 then you might want to think twice about going turbo. Well if you want it to last anyway. It can be done for really cheap (under a grand) but of course that will probably mean you will have to cut corners which might cause blown engines.

Coopstar124
11-05-2007, 05:52 PM
well the plan was to acquire all the parts I need over about year, probably mostly over the summer since thats when I'll be working the most again. So money shouldn't be too much of a problem. For everyone who has actually taken on a turbo project where did you get parts?

guaynabo89
11-05-2007, 05:56 PM
For everyone who has actually taken on a turbo project where did you get parts?



Custom LOL




:wave:


Just keep an eye out for sales and what not. Sometimes you can even get a name brand good quality parts off ebay.

bobafett
11-05-2007, 09:57 PM
i got parts from all over. misc stores online, ebay, other car forums, machine shop finding me stuff, and custom stuff from 3geez members.

first you need to decide WHAT you want to buy, then worry about finding it. if you aren't going to build a motor you aren't going to need custom pistons, rods, etc. if you aren't going to do headwork and intake manifold stuff that simplifies things more too.

try and make a parts list and we can help point you in the right direction. since so little is made specifically for the 3g accord, you end up improvising. walbro fuel pumo for 86-89 accord, hell no, but we all use civic pumps. :) no worries at all...

stay away from cheap ebay turbos. unless its used, you get what you pay for. there is nothing wrong with buying a used turbo though. if possible local purchases are nice, since you can verify shaft play before you drop a few hundred bucks. :)

you name the parts you are after and we can probably help you find them, but honestly its all easy to find. but you DO need to know what you are looking for....

heres a quick list, figure out specifically what you want for these items:

bov
fuel pump
fuel injectors
wastegate (or internally gated turbo)
fmic
turbo manifold
turbo
charge pipes
obd1 ecu and tuning software
wideband o2
colder plugs
etc etc

lots to think about. :)

lgoldtop
11-08-2007, 06:52 AM
that gave me a very large boner lol lol lol very nice. you should feel good because you just inspired a 17 year old to turbo his 88 lxi

mushroom_toy
11-29-2007, 01:20 PM
Free parts for my build. Yum. Everything ive gotten so far including my good turbo, intercooler, brand new turbo oil line flange, blow off valve, boost guage, etc etc, ive gotten for free. you just have to have good friends and know people who will help you ou. im still far form turboing my accord, because im nearing 400,000 miles and am waiting the engine to go until I rebuild, but its great doing a budget build.

Civic Accord Honda
11-29-2007, 04:03 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/sinnedone/Picture2734.jpg



. :D is that my xmas gift? :)





..
id bulid the engine up B-4 slaping a turbo on

LiquidIC
12-11-2007, 01:02 AM
If youre still thinking about going turbo i think you should get a complete grasp on what all goes into just parts of a turbo car...



bov
fuel pump
fuel injectors
wastegate (or internally gated turbo)
fmic
turbo manifold
turbo
charge pipes
obd1 ecu and tuning software
wideband o2
colder plugs

and expanding on bobafetts list

relocate battery (kit)
OR
new smaller battery
Fuel Pressure Regulator (adjustable or Rising Rate)
Fuel pressure gauge
oil feed for turbo (outlet from source/line/flow restricter)
oil drain for turbo (nipple in oil pan/line)
fittings for said feed and drain
boost gauge (so ya know where youre at)
brackets for the IC
new gaskets for the manifold/oil pan/ valve cover (unless youre running a catch can)
pipe to make DP
Turbo outlet flange to make DP
o2 bung for wideband
resisters put inline (depending on injectors)
a filter/pipe for the turbo
silicon connectors
t-bolt clams
new fuel filter
turbo gaskets
various bolts and clamps
probably new shit for your bumper because you broke them taking it off
and if you do water to air like I did then you add
Liquid Intercooler
Heat Exchanger
3/4 water line
3/4 hose clamps
fittings
water pump with desired flow rate in my case 13.8gmp@3amp

probably more stuff i cant think about at this moment but you get the idea... what ever you think its going to take to turbo your car go ahead and add about $500 bucks to it, even if you do it cheap like it did (i did mine right, just took me a year to find all the parts for the prices i wanted to pay) it still nickles and dimes you!


my set up on my 4thGen
http://a312.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/54/l_4a51c33273f6bad43a427798117b6a1f.jpg
http://a960.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/14/l_d2254585ed9ef8f5281b239f1773bea7.jpg
http://a562.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/58/l_589d8f34ad09004136d7161704824e31.jpg

AccordEpicenter
12-11-2007, 02:01 AM
let me guess, 14b/dsm mani redrilled? Looks pretty good, the liquid to air ic is different, were you going for sleeper looks? or did you just not want to hack up the front of the car for a fmic? Whats your managemant?

89T
12-11-2007, 04:56 AM
i see the fact that its easier and more efficient run a air/water intercooler on a race car but i really am not fond of it in a street car.the question is are you going to toss in a bag of ice every time you drive your car?or did you go with a water cooler in front of the rad?
not busting your balls or anything but without doing any of those its not going to be efficant...

bobafett
12-11-2007, 09:52 AM
It's Nick! Whats up dude...

Yep he has redrilled dsm manifold and 14b turbo. He is crome tuned. :)

Yeah his car is definitely sleeper. Hideously stock, it's awesome.
He has a heat exchanger in the bumper to help cool off the water. But no reservoir to put ice in if i remember correctly.

I had to give him crap on the liquid setup too but it is crazy how fast that thing builds boost with the piping he has. It's almost faster than you can register the pressure on the gauge lol. Not sure on IAT's, but he claims it stays pretty cool.

Accordtheory
12-11-2007, 01:09 PM
it is crazy how fast that thing builds boost with the piping he has. It's almost faster than you can register the pressure on the gauge

It's a 14b..I would say it's possibly too small for a 600cc bike and here it's on a 2.2..

As far as the liquid setup, I had that before, probably never again. Reason is you have 2 inefficiencies in series instead of one. Not to mention the added unreliability and complexity of the system.

MessyHonda
12-11-2007, 01:16 PM
It's a 14b..I would say it's possibly too small for a 600cc bike and here it's on a 2.2..

As far as the liquid setup, I had that before, probably never again. Reason is you have 2 inefficiencies in series instead of one. Not to mention the added unreliability and complexity of the system.


dont bikes rev up to like 14k....

LiquidIC
12-21-2007, 02:16 AM
i guess i should get on here more but lets answer some questions..

for a motor that has 200,678 miles and nothing done to the actual engine it pulls hard and the turbo builds pretty decent power for what i use it for. The intake temps are decent and the A/F doesnt go crazy in hot outside temps and to go with that i can up the boost because i did a very safe tune about 10.8:1 at full throttle to account the intercooler being better at winter temps...

but all things considered when i started this project i gave myself a goal...

1) do the turbo setup for less then $1000
2) keep the car as stock as possible

first with the turbo kit, (including Liquid cooling) cost about $950, the wideband O2 was $250, tuning was $100, and the exhaust was $230 so i did go over by $430 but meh... still good i think

and keeping the car stock is easy, REMINDER i wanted to keep the power steering and A/C which isnt possible with a front mount,also the water-air ic had to be done to keep the blingin front mount out of the equation so another reason i went water to air, the exhaust is a full 2.5in turbo back (stock cat) with 2.5 magniflow, a piece of 2.5in pipe out the back totally looks like muffler shop job so it works, stock height
stock wheels with 205/50/15 Hankook k106's
to stop with a set a powerslot rotors with Thermoquite pads... next will be metalmasters


i dont take offense to anything anybody says, i called turbo project "project butt stock" and well its just fun to stomp on cars on the freeway and then blend into the traffic... its fun

AccordEpicenter
12-22-2007, 09:54 AM
i like how you did somthing different, and i was actually thinking of going to a liquid ic but i didnt want to bother in the long run, i dont care if they see my huge fmic haha

LiquidIC
12-22-2007, 12:50 PM
i like how you did somthing different, and i was actually thinking of going to a liquid ic but i didnt want to bother in the long run, i dont care if they see my huge fmic haha


thanks man... of all the turbo set-ups ive seen for the 4th Gen im one of 2 people that have done water/air ICs, its been running strong since May 07 ive put on about 10K on it and becides the small oil leak at the crank seal ive had 0 problems... well im going threw my tires faster but thats the name of the game right?

AccordEpicenter
12-22-2007, 10:53 PM
well im going threw my tires faster but thats the name of the game right?

Exactly. Turbos are all about having fun

LiquidIC
12-24-2007, 01:01 AM
Exactly. Turbos are all about having fun

like i always say... put that in your charge pipe and boost it!:wtf: