Anyone ever used any Acetone in a 3gee?

[mushroom_toy]

Well I was wanting to run acetone in my gas, and was wondering if anyone has ever ran it in a 3gee, and to what effect. Here is where you can get more info. :)
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

Linke Fixed

[labeledsk8r]

well the link doesnt work but im guessing its gona be just like any other fuel mix, its going to lean out more and burn alot hotter wich can lead to many problems includeing detination, but thats just a guess

[mushroom_toy]

Actually the acetone helps make the gas burn completely, and I dont know why the link broke...I had it on another site and it was fine arg.

[mushroom_toy]

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

Theres ythe right link!

[2oodoor]

proceed with caution
there are some writeups already on here about using acetone, toluene, etc..
You need to have the correct ratio or it can cause damage to your fuel system. Using seafoam , lucas, or BG fuel inj cleaner/enhancer is much safer and accomplished raising the octane.
Just for starters, the acetone turns things to mush, experiment with it a little, it would have to be bad even for fuel filter media if it were mixed too strong.

[86AccordLxi]

If you needed more octane sure. Doesn't make much sense on a stock n/a motor.

Alex

[2ndGenGuy]

Didn't anybody watch Mythbusters on this matter? They proved it didn't do shit for gas mileage.

[MessyHonda]

Didn't anybody watch Mythbusters on this matter? They proved it didn't do shit for gas mileage.



i love thoes guys...anyways i just remember seeing when they put like sugar, bleach...moth balls on the gas tank

[86AccordLxi]

Who said anything about mileage? It does raise your octane, though. I know some of the DSM crowd like to run Toulene.

Alex

[MessyHonda]

Who said anything about mileage? It does raise your octane, though. I know some of the DSM crowd like to run Toulene.

Alex




so its a octane booster? that means if i built my engine to like 11:1 then i could get away with like regular gas and couple ounces of acetone?

[86AccordLxi]

I suppose it's conceivable, but I wouldn't build a motor in that fashion. Something that runs on pump gas is a much better idea, especially for a daily driver.

Alex

[2ndGenGuy]

Who said anything about mileage? It does raise your octane, though. I know some of the DSM crowd like to run Toulene.

Alex

Well the article that was linked in the original post said it. If you read TFA. :) :Owned:

An on the topic of raising your octane, does it really work the same way that premium works over regular? Or does it "increase octane" (aka reduce burnability) by simply diluting the fuel?

[2oodoor]

^^^ that all depends on the blend ratio

the real benefit is being able to run more advance which lets you reduce throttle opening thus reduce fuel consumption //anyway you work it that is what it winds up being// weather or not it is worth it or not remains an on going debate

[carotman]

I tried it in the Civic and got mixed results.

[2ndGenGuy]

^^^ that all depends on the blend ratio

the real benefit is being able to run more advance which lets you reduce throttle opening thus reduce fuel consumption //anyway you work it that is what it winds up being// weather or not it is worth it or not remains an on going debate

While it may let you advance the timing, does the acetone prove to burn as effectively as gasoline? What I mean is, say (for example) you set up a 5% mixture of Acetone in your gasoline. That means you only have 95% of the available power from gasoline. If Acetone doesn't burn as effectively as gasoline, doesn't that mean the remaining 5% of your total fuel mixture isn't as effective? Basically requiring you to put more throttle into it and only burning excess fuel and counteracting the power effect of the advanced timing?

I only see two possibilities here.

A) Gas companies simply add a little bit of acetone (or equivalent) to premium fuel because it really doesn't affect consumption, and they're charging us out the ass for it because they're rip off scam artists. (Seriously not something I'd put past them)

B) Gas companies have formulated a mixture that is more complicated than simply adding acetone to your gas to increase the octane. They've used some sort of mixture that raises octane without reducing the efficiency of the fuel. Bonus to low compression cars is you can add a tiny bit of advance, bonus to high-compression cars is none, you simply don't get knocking as a result of pre-ignition. (Talking strictly 91-93 octane here)

I'm mostly interested what you guys think about it. I just am skeptical of magical teaspoons of additives that nobody sells as a product to do this (or at least that I've heard of).

[snoopyloopy]

last i heard on the matter was that acetone evaporates even quicker than gasoline. so basically, a tiny bit of acetone in the gasoline results in the gasoline being able to atomize much better and burn more completely. should help w/ passing smog if nothing else...

[mushroom_toy]

Well I will be testing it as soon as I can, and post the results here.

[2ndGenGuy]

I honestly believe that if you see any increase in mileage, it will be all in your right foot. Unless you do some controlled test, how are you going to be sure that any mileage increase you see is actually the acetone?

[MessyHonda]

I honestly believe that if you see any increase in mileage, it will be all in your right foot. Unless you do some controlled test, how are you going to be sure that any mileage increase you see is actually the acetone?



lift up the car in jack stands...and have the wheels spin till the gas tank goes to E...lol best way would be on a dyno...but we dont have 4 to 5 hours to kill a gas tank on a dyno...

[2oodoor]

I honestly believe that if you see any increase in mileage, it will be all in your right foot. Unless you do some controlled test, how are you going to be sure that any mileage increase you see is actually the acetone?

It can be done, but the results of the test would be subject to debate because of the lack of genuine scientific errr up to mythbusters standards.. lol
MushroomToy can do his own 'self controlled' test which would take a lot of <<< ditto.. lol and he can find out what he needs to know. When I do my own mpg tests I have to remember not to get in it too much and use the exact same driving style for the entire quanity of fuel in the 'test'

I think you could get better mileage if you tuned the car to run on the blend, as opposed to a de tuned car that runs on 87.
I also think, KNOW that premium gas as well as other gas is blended different every season, and even during shortages... so when you may have got an extra 60 miles or so on a tank of premium, that may not always be consistant depending on the blend >>>sort of like 2ndGenGuy was saying, even though it is 93 the amount of inert less volitale compounds may vary.

[Oldblueaccord]

I used it for about 2 years maybe. I just put some in the fill neck and filled it up with gas. It took the ping out of the motor with 89 octane fuel for me. I liked it and I got myabe 2 mpg better with it.

I'm currently using 2 gallons of e85 per fill up and I got a 28 mpg this fill which is very high for my usage. I mix it with 87 octane no ping what so ever.

I have run it on the following vehicles

1988 Honda accord lxi +2 mpg improvement using 89
1977 Chrysler Lebaron went from 10 to 14 mpg by using 89 instead of 93
1999 Chevy Astro van zero improvement on mpg using 87

I had a guy at work do the "double blind test" with his ford pickup I think it was a 1990 straight 6 fuel injection he got about 2 mpg better over the course of 10 tanks. I just told him to try it with out giving him to much info about what to expect. He kept great mileage records so he was a good subject.

As far as my wifes Astro it never gets any better mileage no matter what octane is put into it. I just think its maxed out for its set up V-6 4500lbs vehicle.

wp

[mushroom_toy]

I honestly believe that if you see any increase in mileage, it will be all in your right foot. Unless you do some controlled test, how are you going to be sure that any mileage increase you see is actually the acetone?

I usually drive the same route each day, and as I am usually broke now I dont really have a ehavy foot.

[mushroom_toy]

Anyway Ill be using 100% pure acetone mixed in the ratio of 1-1 1/2 ounces ever 10 gallons or so. Ill be using 87 octane, but to do that I have to find the best gas in my city.

[pmpete]

Be very careful with acetone it is a very powerful solvent and can attack a lot of plastics. I'm sure it won't hurt most cars but I wouldn't chance it in mine.
Paul

[mushroom_toy]

^Wow, lol. If you think about it anything can hurt your engine. Alchohol is contained in gasoline which corodes engines, yet they still put it in there.

[snoopyloopy]

yes, acetone corrodes plastic. but if you using the ratio of about 100ml:40l, the effects will be negligible. and it is possible to do a somewhat "scientific" test, especially if you have a long commute fairly often. simply record your mpg over an average of five tanks then do the same with five tanks of acetone. that's close to 2000 miles of driving (for me, anyway). that should be a good enough distance to minimize any effects of stuff like racing, grandmaing it, uncommon driving conditions, etc.

[MessyHonda]

^Wow, lol. If you think about it anything can hurt your engine. Alchohol is contained in gasoline which corodes engines, yet they still put it in there.



most of that stuff is for like emissions stuff....my friend said his grandfather owened a old farm and they would buy gas. and save it and it would never go bad....now it does. back then it was pure.

[mushroom_toy]

most of that stuff is for like emissions stuff....my friend said his grandfather owened a old farm and they would buy gas. and save it and it would never go bad....now it does. back then it was pure.

Yup and the govt is thinking of dumping more alcohol into gasoline as well.

[2oodoor]

http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/page2.htm
^^^pretty good article MushroomToy, check it out when you get a chance

[Hauntd ca3]

acetone is nail polish remover
just thnk what that'll do to honda plastic fuel lines
alcohol is just as bad
no motorcycle manufacturer will do warranty claims on a bike that runs on fuel that contains alcohol
that includes honda
why would they're cars be any different?
alcohol has only one place
in my beer/ bourbon

[snoopyloopy]

lmao, that's the last place i'd want it. if it does that to plastics, heaven only knows what it does to one's body...

[2ndGenGuy]

I prefer a couple shots of isopropyl alcohol at night to help me sleep.

[86AccordLxi]

Try toulene instead of acetone.

Alex

[2ndGenGuy]

Tried that, toulene has a little bit of afterburn in your throat. And it sucks when it comes back up.

[cubert]

Tried that, toulene has a little bit of afterburn in your throat. And it sucks when it comes back up.


:lol:

[Oldblueaccord]

acetone is nail polish remover
just thnk what that'll do to honda plastic fuel lines
alcohol is just as bad
no motorcycle manufacturer will do warranty claims on a bike that runs on fuel that contains alcohol
that includes honda
why would they're cars be any different?
alcohol has only one place
in my beer/ bourbon

to bad here they cut gas. 10% ethanol. I guess all the car /motorcycle warrantys are void.

:gun:


wp

[mushroom_toy]

Fuck this eating plastic lines bullshit, I can almost guarantee that it will not fuck up my car in the small quantities i will be using. If anyone has read they would notice I said I would use maybe 1-1 1/2 ounces per 10 GALLONS. That is a very safe mixture. I run race gas diluted in my tank sometimes just to clean it out (1 gallon per 6-10 gallons of regular 86) and it is leaded 110 octance. It has not done anything to my engine period. So if the acetone fucks my engine up, then I guess it will be time for a build wont it? :) If not, I will hopefully be enjoying 34-38 or maybe even more mpg. Hopefully that will be the outcome but I will find out when I run my tests.

Roodoo that is a pretty good article. Im definitely not making my own race gas though.

[mushroom_toy]

acetone is nail polish remover
just thnk what that'll do to honda plastic fuel lines
alcohol is just as bad
no motorcycle manufacturer will do warranty claims on a bike that runs on fuel that contains alcohol
that includes honda
why would they're cars be any different?
alcohol has only one place
in my beer/ bourbon

I dont know if they have it in nz, but alcohol basically is a component of gasoline here buddy.

[2oodoor]

I prefer a couple shots of isopropyl alcohol at night to help me sleep.

where, in the buttocks? what size needle?
muahh haha haaaa

hey snoopy, alcohol is good for you in the correct mixture... but then again some people really do not need to be driniking:beer:
acetone laquer thinner toulene will kill you , so will wood alcohol, and streight proof corn squeezins.

[Hauntd ca3]

I dont know if they have it in nz, but alcohol basically is a component of gasoline here buddy.

nah we dont have booze in our gas down here thank god
i know lots of countries do for emmisions reasons or something along those lines
alcohol is corrosive by nature and will attack alloys,rubber and plastics over a period of time. it's also hydroscopic like brake fluid so it with soak in water out of the atmosphere
if you ever see the guys at the strip running straight methanol, they'll flush out the whole fuel system with av gas or something to get rid of it or it will eat up the fuel lines and carbs/injectors
if you can,find a source of low lead av gas and put a couple liters in each time you fill up
or a good octane booster to try and nullify the reduction of power from the alcohol in your fuel

[snoopyloopy]

Fuck this eating plastic lines bullshit, I can almost guarantee that it will not fuck up my car in the small quantities i will be using. If anyone has read they would notice I said I would use maybe 1-1 1/2 ounces per 10 GALLONS. That is a very safe mixture. I run race gas diluted in my tank sometimes just to clean it out (1 gallon per 6-10 gallons of regular 86) and it is leaded 110 octance. It has not done anything to my engine period. So if the acetone fucks my engine up, then I guess it will be time for a build wont it? :) If not, I will hopefully be enjoying 34-38 or maybe even more mpg. Hopefully that will be the outcome but I will find out when I run my tests.

Roodoo that is a pretty good article. Im definitely not making my own race gas though.
yes, i ran it in my old 3g for awhile too. no ill effects for me as far as i could tell. i stopped bc it got kinda annoying to remember to put it in and it wasn't really that much of a difference.

[2oodoor]

leaded gas used to damage cats.... hence the need to have only unleaded available
I wonder what effect these additives have on O2 sensors if there were too much of the wrong stuff

[Hauntd ca3]

the lead clogs o2 sensors as well, but i'm pretty sure yu can get o2 sensors that can handle a certain amount say if you run 25% race gas75% regular gas
dont think that the ounce or so of acetone you are saying will give any advantage
half a bottle of octane boost will give you more
in a perfect world tho, we could all run straight 110 octane leaded
the best advice i can give is talk to people who have been building and tuning engines for years and ask what they think
chances are they've seen everything ever tried and can set you right

[2ndGenGuy]

Lets do a little bit of math here.

You're going to add 1 ounce of acetone to 10 gallons of gas. That's a 0.07% mixture. If acetone evaporates 100% quicker, which I seriously doubt that it does, that means you will at most, have improved your gasoline's evaporation rate by 0.07%. Not only would the acetone have to evaporate 100% quicker than gasoline, but the mixture of the gasoline and acetone would have to be perfect, and evenly distributed through the tank to achieve that. PLUS the mixture of the chemicals would have to even guarantee that the evaporation rate isn't affected by any other strange molecular reactions that would occur as a result of mixing acetone with any of the other ingredients in gasoline.

Not to mention the fact that gasoline evaporation is NOT what happens inside your engine. The fuel is atomized. Which I'm going to guess means that the evaporation rate doesn't mean diddly shit. Since gasoline actually burns better when its in tiny little dropplets, and is in fact in this form when it leaves your fuel injector.

Also, do you really think that there is any time for evaporation to occur from the time it leaves your fuel injector to the time it is burned? Let's figure out how long exact the fuel is in it's atomized state:

Lets be conservative here, and go with an RPM of about 2500. A good, fuel-efficent highway speed for our cars. At 2500RPM the piston is going up and down in the cylinder 42 times every second. Since it's a 4 stroke motor, the fuel is only injected into the cylinder every other rotation. That means it's injected 21 times per second. That means that the fuel can only be doing it's thing for 0.047 seconds, BUT since half that rotation the fuel is burnt and doing the whole exhaust thing, it's only around for about 0.0235 seconds. Hardly long enough for a (quite liberal) 0.07% increase in evaporation rate to make any difference whatsoever.

EDIT: And let me add to this. Would you agree that ethanol probably evaporates quicker than gasoline as well? If so, then why does E10 burn with so much less power, and get worse mileage than regular gasoline? By the whole evaporative theory, E10 should increase mileage significantly.

EDIT2: Okay so my calculations were a bit wrong, I didn't think about the fact that fuel was pulled in during the intake stroke then compressed before it's ignited. So it's a 0.047 second time period from injection to combustion. My point still stands.

[2oodoor]

Toulene would be a better choice here if we are going to the paint store for fuel additive.

2ndGenGuy I have a headache now after reading that, I need on of those shots. lol
The debate over any advantage is won, yes if you uptune the car to burn a high octane, you will get better MPG but the disadvantages are there, plenty of them. So the decision to use it or not is up to an individual's circumstances.. yet another factor not identifed here.

Just for kicks and giggles, take a saucer of each: 87 gasoline, toulene, acetone, diesel, and E85..and your favorite blend of homemade fuel. get a minitorch, leather welding glove, and a stopwatch. Ignite each saucer and record the results, time each equal amount burned, what material was left in the saucers. guess which less volitile of them all will produce the most energy,Im betting on diesel

[2ndGenGuy]

Toulene would be a better choice here if we are going to the paint store for fuel additive.

2ndGenGuy I have a headache now after reading that, I need on of those shots. lol
The debate over any advantage is won, yes if you uptune the car to burn a high octane, you will get better MPG but the disadvantages are there, plenty of them. So the decision to use it or not is up to an individual's circumstances.. yet another factor not identifed here.

Just for kicks and giggles, take a saucer of each: 87 gasoline, toulene, acetone, diesel, and E85..and your favorite blend of homemade fuel. get a minitorch, leather welding glove, and a stopwatch. Ignite each saucer and record the results, time each equal amount burned, what material was left in the saucers. guess which less volitile of them all will produce the most energy,Im betting on diesel

I think I'll need a few shots before I get brave enough to try that test. Afraid I'll probably need a ride on the waaaambulance! :wave:

http://www.3geez.com/forum/customavatars/avatar8343_16.gif

Of course diesel would, but it also takes 23:1 compression to flash combust the fuel. That's why diesel motors make so much torque. But it's also why they can't rev high. You have no spark to ignite the fuel before the completion of the compression stroke. :wtf:

[2oodoor]

ok on the other side, the toulene and acetone will go up in a flash and gone, the 87 will poof up and burn a few seconds maybe a minute.. not sure about the others yet I have to find my eyebrows....:devil:

[2ndGenGuy]

ok on the other side, the toulene and acetone will go up in a flash and gone, the 87 will poof up and burn a few seconds maybe a minute.. not sure about the others yet I have to find my eyebrows....:devil:

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Wow you actually tried it? I wondered if any of them would last long!! Can you time it with a stopwatch?

[2oodoor]

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[IMG]
Wow you actually tried it? I wondered if any of them would last long!! Can you time it with a stopwatch?

:burn::bowrofl: yep google earth, Georgia US follow I-20 to Martinez , back west about a mile, north a mile.. the diesel is still burning, caught my phone on fire so I dont hava stopwatch no more.. J/K ??