EM racing c pillar bars!

[87lxiaccord]

yep you read it right, my sister has a lude and bought one in their group buy from em racing. She said I can try to see if it fits on my car so i measured it up and decided to give it a shot...and it fits! They're quick release and she bought hers for the group buy price of 150+shipping which is not bad at all. I'm not sure if they are still available for this price but if you guys are interested we can contact the company and see if they'll do a group buy for us. They're already in production too though so there shouldn't be a long wait.
Here's some pics I had to hammer flat one side in order to get the bolt back in and thats it. Also if you want to keep the pillar plastic peices you will have to cut a hole on them. Hopefully they will fit hatches too
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l292/87lxiaccord/001-Copy3.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l292/87lxiaccord/002-Copy2.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l292/87lxiaccord/004-Copy2.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l292/87lxiaccord/003-Copy2.jpg

[labeledsk8r]

is this only for the 4 door accords or can it work on coupes... and i doubt it but hatches aswell?

[forrest89sei]

is this only for the 4 door accords or can it work on coupes... and i doubt it but hatches aswell?

I'd Think as long as the seat belts mount the same, that they'd work on the coupe

[labeledsk8r]

I'd Think as long as the seat belts mount the same, that they'd work on the coupe

reason im asking is i know the coupe has a difrent rear window wich means the length between the seat belts could be diffrent,

[lostforawhile]

the hatch is more narrow in the rear,when i used the backing from a headliner from a sedan,i had to cut it down quite a bit. the entire back end is different as a matter of fact. if someone has accurate measurements,i'm sure it would be easy to make the center section shorter. for a useful note the hatch has the same floor pan as a coupe,but different then a sedan. it wouldn't hurt to double check though someone could check between the upper mounting bolts on a hatch and compare to a sedan,maby it's different at the rear roofline is all.

[87lxiaccord]

Yeah but i wonder how much more narrow it would be from a sedan at the seat belt points, and you could always shorten the bracket a bit without hacking the bar it depends on how much of a difference it is i guess. I bet it would fit a coupe though

[lostforawhile]

Yeah but i wonder how much more narrow it would be from a sedan at the seat belt points, and you could always shorten the bracket a bit without hacking the bar it depends on how much of a difference it is i guess. I bet it would fit a coupe thoughwe need an accurate measurement between seat belt bolts on all three body styles,the hatch is different from everything else at the back except for the rear floor pan.

[87lxiaccord]

yeah haha ok you take a measurement and I will too then we can compare

[Bones]

Not to rain on the parade or nothin' but ....

That's really cool looking for a dedicated race car, but any back seat passenger is gonna get a cracked open skull if ya get rear-ended while using it as a part time racer/street car.

I wonder how difficult it would be to pad one of them things ... at least the sections right behind where a passengers head would normally be. I bet BMX bike frame pads would wrap that bar but may not be thick enough.

[labeledsk8r]

Not to rain on the parade or nothin' but ....

That's really cool looking for a dedicated race car, but any back seat passenger is gonna get a cracked open skull if ya get rear-ended while using it as a part time racer/street car.

I wonder how difficult it would be to pad one of them things ... at least the sections right behind where a passengers head would normally be. I bet BMX bike frame pads would wrap that bar but may not be thick enough.

they sell role cage pads by the foot i belive, i have also seen those swimming pool foam noodles used very well.. but really think about who wants to have to drive around a full car of people? its a good excuse to not have to drive people around lol

[87lxiaccord]

its 2 pins to take it out haha called quick release

[EricW]

Looks good, but I would rather have a harness bar that attaches to the b pillar. Get more info on it and I may buy one anyway.

[2ndGenGuy]

So how's that work? Does it even do anything other than kill rear seat passengers? Might be nice to put someone in the back seat you don't like.

[MessyHonda]

whats does it do besides blocking some of the view on the rear?

[labeledsk8r]

whats does it do besides blocking some of the view on the rear?

its just another body stiffiner, cuts down flex, but you wont notice it to much, still can help in some aplications

[MessyHonda]

its just another body stiffiner, cuts down flex, but you wont notice it to much, still can help in some aplications



sway bar would be more affective since it connects the lower control arms and they flex together....i got to get mine going.

[2ndGenGuy]

I just don't see it stiffening anything. If there was any flex above the beltline in the car, I'm pretty sure that back window would shatter out. I can see it being useful in a hatchback, but it looks completely useless and a waste of money in a sedan. It's like putting a divider in a cardboard box, it will still flop over sideways. Simple geometry.

[lostforawhile]

I just don't see it stiffening anything. If there was any flex above the beltline in the car, I'm pretty sure that back window would shatter out. I can see it being useful in a hatchback, but it looks completely useless and a waste of money in a sedan. It's like putting a divider in a cardboard box, it will still flop over sideways. Simple geometry.i belive it's to be used in conjunction with sway bars,stru tower bar etc. by itself i don't think it's that useful. this might be something to stiffen up the body for autocrossing or something,at least it removes. i saw one the other day in a dam lexus welded in.

[knarg]

i want one for my hatch

[87lxiaccord]

read this
http://www.emracing.com/formula.html

[race12001]

i wouldnt mind getting one if it fit the coupes

[2ndGenGuy]

read this
http://www.emracing.com/formula.html

That pretty much explains exactly why that C-pillar bar is useless. Unless you've got a hatchback (as seen in the picture) and can put a diagonal crossbrace between the two, it won't do anything. Just go look at figure B on that page. C-pillar bar with no diagonal crossbrace still allows flex. So unless someone with a coupe or sedan is going to cut the rear panel to make a crossbrace, it won't do anything.

[EricW]

I just looked through emracing's product page, I wouldn't mind having one of those triangulated trunk braces.

[race12001]

yea i dont think it would be hard to mke it work on the coupe or atleast mine i dont ever ride any one in the back seat i think i would be wiling to take it all out to stiffen it up to improve the handaling but i just need to get a stut tower bar

[87lxiaccord]

This is Derek's sister.

It should dramatically improve the handling. Come on guys, think of a cardboard box and how much it sways when you push on a side...now stiffen the bottom of the box (ie. sway bar), the top will still sway now stiffen the top (ie. c pillar bar) and it won't sway nearly as much. So yes, the c pillar bar would be an excellent addition with a rear sway bar and rear strut bar. However, if you stablize the top of the box only, you will still have a significant stiffer rear.

The bar has been fabricated to be a quick release so rear passengers may fit in the car as needed. However, under no circumstances should you place passengers in the rear with the bar still intact.

We are also going to get a group buy started for the Z brace bars that fit in the trunk for the 3rd gen preludes. Derek and I will have to measure the trunks to see if those will fit the accords.

I need to formally see how much interest there is going to be for this product before I contact EM Racing for you guys so lets start a list of who's in and who's not.

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[coope]

wouldn't a rear sway bay be more effective plus i can't keep my rear interior

[88LXi68]

wouldn't a rear sway bay be more effective plus i can't keep my rear interior

I think a rear sway bar would be more effective, but every little bit of chassis strengthening would help. This appears to be a solid add on after you have done the rear sway bar and rear strut bar.

[87lxiaccord]

wouldn't a rear sway bay be more effective plus i can't keep my rear interior

you can keep your interior just have to cut a hole and yes the c pillar bar would probably not be as effective unless you also have a sway and strut bar. I just test drove it and my car handles pretty damn good for cut springs and blown shocks unless i hit a bump while cornering haha

[lostforawhile]

you can keep your interior just have to cut a hole and yes the c pillar bar would probably not be as effective unless you also have a sway and strut bar. I just test drove it and my car handles pretty damn good for cut springs and blown shocks unless i hit a bump while cornering hahahmmm i might have to make one of those

[lostforawhile]

i was thinking one of those would be a good camera tripod mount. just find a used tripod, take off the part that attaches to all three legs, and weld a bracket on the bar. then you can mount your camera at any angle you like.

[2ndGenGuy]

I made a camera mount just like this with a one of those screw-adjust shower curtain rods, a bolt that fit in the mount hole on the bottom of the camera, and a hose clamp. Total cost: $11. Assembly and installation time: 2 minutes.

[lostforawhile]

I made a camera mount just like this with a one of those screw-adjust shower curtain rods, a bolt that fit in the mount hole on the bottom of the camera, and a hose clamp. Total cost: $11. Assembly and installation time: 2 minutes.
what i mean is if are going to put in one of those bars,you could weld on a mount to fit part of a tripod. the tripod lets you aim the camera a lot better.

[team123luder]

Wow..... it takes a lot to become a member here..... anyway.

My name is Mario, I'm a proud 3GP (3rd gen Prelude) owner and the creator of the EM racing 3GP bar.

I worked with EM Racing to produce a bar for us, since we have very little aftermarket support.

As you well know, the 3GP is in coupe form. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread and I hope I can help clear the water with his post.

A member over at another forum mentioned that the bar fit her brothers 3GA accord. Now I have no idea about the driving characteristics of said accord or dimensions.

I can only go off of what you guys inform me about.

The 3GP is a very old car and even in coupe form, we suffer from lots of body roll. Honda blessed us with a prime suspension setup, capable of handing other, stronger, faster vehicles their a55 back to them at the apex.

Though the 2WS 3GP suffers from understeer. I touge my prelude regularly and can say that in my 2WS prelude, it made more of a difference then my rear strut tower bar (which is a great bar as well).

The Lancer Evolution is a sedan, though shares a lot of characteristics with coupes. The EM C pillar bar makes a noticeable difference in them.... now I know for a fact that no 3GP or 3GA can handle as well as an EVO out of the box.

To answer the "If there was flex above the lower seat belt points, our rear window will shatter". Honda uses a rubber trim/molding around the rear window which absorbs most of that flex.... relieving that actual glass from pressure, thus it not breaking.

A B pillar bar/harness bar is a totally different setup then a C pillar bar, affecting the handling character in a totally different manner. The C pillar stiffening will improve on understeer and correct a lot of it. The best method would simply be to adjust the toe in/out settings... though a stiffer rear wont hurt. A B pillar bar will cause the center of the car to be stiffened, though it wont have such a dramatic effect on understeer as the C pillar bar.

Now... our current group buy is over, however I can contact Mark over at EM racing if you guys want to start a group buy. We have a few more members who couldn't make the first run.... so this would benefit us as well.

The price isn't "set" as of yet, however the last GB price was 150 us dollars + 10.00 for shipping/20 Alaska/Hawaii/Canada

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/team123luder/EM%20racing/INSTALLED.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/team123luder/EM%20racing/INSTALLEDSIDEVIEW.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/team123luder/EM%20racing/looslyinstalled.jpg

They also come with a quick release setup, which when you have rear seat passengers.. you can quickly remove the bar.... or pop it back in....

Thanks

Mario

[lostforawhile]

ah now i see how they are made, i need to get started on mine. two brackets, two spherical rod ends,two lynch pins, and an aluminum center section.

[team123luder]

ah now i see how they are made, i need to get started on mine. two brackets, two spherical rod ends,two lynch pins, and an aluminum center section.

two billet aluminum brackets, two threaded heim joints (one left hand thread) billet aluminum center section with 2 grip areas, 2 aluminum shoulder pins and 2 cotter pins...

Anything else?

[lostforawhile]

two billet aluminum brackets, two threaded heim joints (one left hand thread) billet aluminum center section with 2 grip areas, 2 aluminum shoulder pins and 2 cotter pins...

Anything else?yep easy. i make billet stuff all the time. i would need an oddball setup anyway for my car so i'll have to make one. and those aren't cotter pins they are lynch pins,they are used on farm equipment too. very usefull. hand grips are easy to knurl on the lathe too.

[team123luder]

yep easy. i make billet stuff all the time. i would need an oddball setup anyway for my car so i'll have to make one. and those aren't cotter pins they are lynch pins,they are used on farm equipment too. very usefull. hand grips are easy to knurl on the lathe too.

:cheers:

[race12001]

well how much could you make one for lost i would be interested in one too if your gonna make one

[lostforawhile]

dk if i'll be able to make one to sell i still have to price the ends and stuff. will probably be a one off due to the tripod mount and so on. besides i don't want to jack this thread since they are considering selling them for the three geez. i'm making mine because i need kind of a unique setup is all.

[EricW]

I'm down to buy one when/if the next group buy goes through.

[2ndGenGuy]

Why don't you guys build the complete kit? I'm sure anybody here who is going to these lengths to install these bars, and who is going to want real benefits will pay for the complete kit and would be willing to cut ONE small hole in their back package tray to get a significant performance increase.................



http://www.emracing.com/media/formula2.jpg
As the vehicle maneuvers through a turn, force on the chassis is exerted. Though some of the weight is transferred via the c-pillar and rear strut brace, the rectangle is nonetheless disfigured, which results in a loss of potential performance.

[MessyHonda]

hey Mario...i bet you seen me around PP.com...

[87LXiR]

The only thing that concerns me about installing these bars is if it hinders the effectivness of seatbelts in a crash. Like if the bracket would tear out of the cars body due to the bolt not threading as far in as its suposed to. Am i just being paranoid :nervous:

[itzdave]

i wouldnt worry about the bracket coming out. or you could just get a longer *grade 8* bolt.
i just think that the only way that this would acually do anything for the car is if you were to do the 3 bar set-up (that top one, rear strut bar, something to connect them diagonally). i think i might try to make one, ive got all the stuff to make a rear strut bar and the others would be very similar. but im not gunna do it for a while cuz i gots other stuff to do.

[team123luder]

hey Mario...i bet you seen me around PP.com...

Hello Mr. Messy, yeah I've seen you over on pp.com.


The get the best benifit of this particular setup, just install a 6 point weld in roll cage.

Though some of us don't want to go that extreme. The simple C pillar bar does creat wonders. It's caused the little understeer on my prelude to seize. I've been driving my car hard through out southern california (Um yeah, we do have enough mountain trails) and had my suspension setup to its limits, with off the shelf items... this just further improves it.

To make a complete unit for you guys, I would need to get a 3GA in my hands....

[labeledsk8r]

The only thing that concerns me about installing these bars is if it hinders the effectivness of seatbelts in a crash. Like if the bracket would tear out of the cars body due to the bolt not threading as far in as its suposed to. Am i just being paranoid :nervous:

Just get longer bolts, just take your stock bolt and mesure how much the new bracket takes out of it and add the lengths together and pick up some high grade bolts

**edit** someone allready said this

[frantik]

i wonder how much this would improve the sedan's handling... :\ looks real clean though would be interested sometime in the future probably

[knarg]

Why don't you guys build the complete kit? I'm sure anybody here who is going to these lengths to install these bars, and who is going to want real benefits will pay for the complete kit and would be willing to cut ONE small hole in their back package tray to get a significant performance increase.................

yeah i would want a full set-up with diagonal cross bracing

[lostforawhile]

i wouldnt worry about the bracket coming out. or you could just get a longer *grade 8* bolt.
i just think that the only way that this would acually do anything for the car is if you were to do the 3 bar set-up (that top one, rear strut bar, something to connect them diagonally). i think i might try to make one, ive got all the stuff to make a rear strut bar and the others would be very similar. but im not gunna do it for a while cuz i gots other stuff to do.
that bolt is a lot stronger then a grade 8, and it has special washers and so on on the bolt. if you could find one with the same specs,it would be fine, maby a junkyard might have a longer bolt from a belt mount from another japanese car. whatever you do don't try buying standard grade hardware store bolts to go replacing those things. if you get replacment bolts they are probably going to have to come from a specialty hardware supplier. those large metric bolts in that hardness just aren't going to come from the local hardware store. you are best to try an aviation supply house, if you can find metrics. those are probably AN spec bolts. i believe they are grade 12 or something like it.

[team123luder]

The OEM seat belt shoulder point bolts are grade 8. The lap belt points are grade 12.

You can easily buy them only if you know your pitch/thread count.

[EricW]

To make a complete unit for you guys, I would need to get a 3GA in my hands....

Where are you located?

[2ndGenGuy]

EMRACING,LLC
4733 Torrance Blvd #732
Torrance, CA 90503

[Hauntd ca3]

i'm of the opinion, that if you want to make your car stiffer in the chassis
either put a full roll cage in it or if you cant afford it, seam weld it.
i've done the later on a few cars, and can honestly say that if done well is almost invisible.
i'm also abit sceptical about strut bars and these c pillar bars.
i know in nz those things would be illegal ( the c pliiar car) even if you took the bar out for warrant of fitness test
simply because the mounts are way to close to any rear occupants head.
in a crash situ, you fairly likely to have a passenger with a hole in there head.
a cage with full padding seems the more logical route to me

[MessyHonda]

i'm of the opinion, that if you want to make your car stiffer in the chassis
either put a full roll cage in it or if you cant afford it, seam weld it.
i've done the later on a few cars, and can honestly say that if done well is almost invisible.
i'm also abit sceptical about strut bars and these c pillar bars.
i know in nz those things would be illegal ( the c pliiar car) even if you took the bar out for warrant of fitness test
simply because the mounts are way to close to any rear occupants head.
in a crash situ, you fairly likely to have a passenger with a hole in there head.
a cage with full padding seems the more logical route to me



thats why they have a pin so you can slide it off when you have passangers in the rear...i never have ppl on the rear so it might work out...and for 150 bucks...its better than me spending it on like stupid stuff.

[[LoD]Miseryland]

i'm of the opinion, that if you want to make your
i know in nz those things would be illegal ( the c pliiar car) even if you took the bar out for warrant of fitness test

Dude, im sure you wouldnt delve into the level of insanity that i have, but if you remove your backseat, you can get away with almost anything, look at my "deathaccord" thread, that pic is how i warranted it, you can get around most laws if you look hard enough/are willing to go to extremes.

[Hauntd ca3]

the bit i would be worried about is the actuall mounts of the bar.
it looks like they are attached to the uper seat belt mounts which arnt to far from a persons head height and look fairly likely to hurt if you hit you head on it.
i know down in nz you would prob have to take it out for inspection or remove the rear seat completely and reregister as a two seater.
that means getting certified(engineer inspected) .
when they do that they check the whole car over top to bottom and gets real expensive when you have to fix everything they find wrong.
laws might be a bit more relaxed in the states but they arnt down here so you have to take into account every possible downside to putting something like that in the passenger cabin

[lostforawhile]

the bit i would be worried about is the actuall mounts of the bar.
it looks like they are attached to the uper seat belt mounts which arnt to far from a persons head height and look fairly likely to hurt if you hit you head on it.
i know down in nz you would prob have to take it out for inspection or remove the rear seat completely and reregister as a two seater.
that means getting certified(engineer inspected) .
when they do that they check the whole car over top to bottom and gets real expensive when you have to fix everything they find wrong.
laws might be a bit more relaxed in the states but they arnt down here so you have to take into account every possible downside to putting something like that in the passenger cabin
yea you could make mounts that are flush when removed,this would be far safer.

[team123luder]

i'm of the opinion, that if you want to make your car stiffer in the chassis
either put a full roll cage in it or if you cant afford it, seam weld it.
i've done the later on a few cars, and can honestly say that if done well is almost invisible.
i'm also abit sceptical about strut bars and these c pillar bars.
i know in nz those things would be illegal ( the c pliiar car) even if you took the bar out for warrant of fitness test
simply because the mounts are way to close to any rear occupants head.
in a crash situ, you fairly likely to have a passenger with a hole in there head.
a cage with full padding seems the more logical route to me

My personal experience with full roll cages + daily driver = BAD!. So you're suggesting that we install a full roll cage in a daily driver that you can/might crash and wind up on a padded bar?

If you crash with any for of bar in your car, it's dangerous. Roll Cages are fine at the track because you're strapped down to your race bucket with a 4+ point harness. The OEM seat belts wont be quite as effective to keep you from moving around.

I'll agree, if you want the ultimate stiff unit body, seem weld and roll cage it.... though this isn't civil.

For something that is a bit more practical, this C pillar bar is fine, not as intense and easily removed for the rear passengers....

[Hauntd ca3]

true, a cage can be a bit dangerous for the road.
i tink i said something bout a bolt in cage so can be removed when not at the track.
i like seam welding coz its invisible and you can get awesome results with it.
a seam weld and strut bars if u must would result in a pretty stiff chassis and the best basis for a great handling car.
the only bitch with seam welding is you have to remove the windscreens to do it right

[team123luder]

For an ultimate street setup, I'd seam weld and "swiss cheese" the car. Lots of structle integrity and a bit of weight reduction at the same would be insane, considering it might cost someone 10k to attempt a mild setup.... I doubt people would do it.

[Hauntd ca3]

by swiss cheese i imagine you mean drill big holes in everything to lighten it up a bit.
i dont think it would cost 10k to do it if you do the work you self.
if you are handy with a mig that would save the cash on seam welding.
for 10k us dollars you should be able to build just about everything you self.
a cage down here will cost you 1500 if you know the right people.
but yeah i do agree that a cage can be a pain if its your daily driver
but if it aint, why not do it.

[team123luder]

by swiss cheese i imagine you mean drill big holes in everything to lighten it up a bit.
i dont think it would cost 10k to do it if you do the work you self.
if you are handy with a mig that would save the cash on seam welding.
for 10k us dollars you should be able to build just about everything you self.
a cage down here will cost you 1500 if you know the right people.
but yeah i do agree that a cage can be a pain if its your daily driver
but if it aint, why not do it.

Actually, you'd be adding metal and removing it. When you add the material in, most of the time aluminum or titanium for strength and weight savings. Though the plates they add have holes in them, when boxed in they are welded together... the weight savings isn't so great... maybe 100lbs or so... the added chassis strength is incredible though.

Drilling holes at random is a bad idea.