Holley 5200, or maybe another model? [Archive] - 3geez.com - Classic Honda Accord & Prelude Forum

2ndGenGuy

12-10-2007, 12:05 AM

So I got this free carb. It's a Holley 2 barrel, and it's a clone of a Weber 32/36 DGEV. It came off of an old AMC Jeep mail truck converted into an ice cream truck. I thought for sure it was a 5200 carb, but in more research, I found there are 5210's, 5220's, 6520's, etc. I was wondering if you guys could help me identify it so I can rebuild it and put it on one of my Hondas.

So there's this little thing that the 5200 doesn't have, and as far as I can tell, it's the only thing different between it and the 5200. I don't even know what it does. It's not in ANY diagrams that I could find. It looks like some sort of diaphragm, that maybe you hook vacuum to? I'm not really sure, it connects into the float bowl, but I don't know what it does...

Here it is with the cap.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01309.jpg

When you take the cap off, here is the diaphragm.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01312.jpg

This is the diaphragm removed.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01313.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01308.jpg

And you can see the extra 'divot' out of the float bowl under where that diaphragm sits.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01316.jpg

And also the difference between the main gaskets. The new 5200 rebuild kit came with the one on the left.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01315.jpg

The thing is the rebuild kit also didn't come with a new diaphragm for that, like it did the other diaphragms.

This is a tag that was screwed onto the carb... Googling then numbers came up with nothing.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01317.jpg

So I guess my questions are:

A) Anybody know how to identify this carb? I can't find anything online...
B) Anybody know what that thing is in the picture that makes this carb slightly different from the 5200? Can I just cap it and call it a day?

2oodoor

12-10-2007, 05:01 AM

You have the tag , it looks like AMC, hence mail jeep. It is definatley in the 5200 familiy. The mystery valve is just a bowl vent, you may be able to just bypass it or hook it up to charcoal canister, or maybe run the vent into one of those little breather filters.
That gives me an idea that a yaar or two later models of that engine may have throttle body FI that would bolt up to the same intake, AMC does thingis like that.. lol
The engine is probably GM origin, 2.5 iron duke most likely.
Gm used it in early s-10 but most of those had a varijet rochester carb,I think.I would check and see if the Holley was ever used on those s-10 2.5 too.

Try looking in a Holley book for the carb numbers and applications, but you already have the tag so a old school parts store should be able to get you a kit with that top hat gasket.
As a last resort you could just fill in the cavity with gas resistant epoxy and file it down to fit the gasket you have.

2oodoor

12-10-2007, 06:06 AM

OK it is from a 1979 AMC OHC 4 cyl. the Model is 5210-C
That is not the GM 2.5 since it is OHV. The 5210-C is used on GM four cyl. engines from 1978-80 Chevettes USA till 82 Can. and AMC four cyl engines 1977-79, The AMC engine is of VW origin (121 cc)

you have to set the float level and float drop on those

2ndGenGuy

12-10-2007, 08:43 AM

Wow roodoo, thanks for the great help. How did you figure out what that came off of anyways? You have an old-school carb book of some kind?

That's pretty interesting that the AMC engine is a design from VW. It's wierd all the mish-mash engines that AMC had. Seems the 4.0 inline 6 is the one that lived on the longest.

So you suppose that if I ask for a carb rebuild kit for a 78-80 Chevette, that I will get all my gaskets and a float vent diaphragm?

Thanks again for your help man, that's simply awesome!

2oodoor

12-10-2007, 10:53 AM

2ndGenGuy

12-10-2007, 11:04 AM

It pays to save those old Chilton hard backs :wave:
I looked up the carb number on the tag, then cross referenced it.
I wonder if that was a Rabbit engine or Audi OHC that they used in the Jeep.

Well that niched the idea of a throttle body fitting that base since it was not off a 2.5. I did not rememeber they used that Holley on Chevettes either.. learned from the research.. >>>
I found a bunch of Chrysler products that used the Holley 5200 family too, crappy feedback systems BUT ALSO ran across some information about the turbos they used in Chrysler 4 bangers back then.:thumbup:

Sounds like your onto some junkyard turbo carb setups! If you find anything out, I'm interested. :) I read a little bit about the feedback carbs. Pretty interesting. Holley made a kit at one time that you could bypass the O2 sensor, and install a knob in your car. Then you could adjust your fuel mixture while you were driving. Sounds pretty sweet to me!

I'm going to head out to the guy's place where I picked up that carb. He's got 2 more of those Jeep mail trucks, I'll try to snag pictures of the engines just for shits and giggles. They were converted to ice cream trucks, and somehow this guy wound up with them. Maybe he had plans to build a badass off-road ice cream Jeep!

forrest89sei

12-10-2007, 11:37 AM

Rural Ice Cream Trucks! What a Idea!

2ndGenGuy

12-10-2007, 09:52 PM

So I ordered the rebuild kit from my local parts store. Should be in tomorrow... we'll see how it goes. :D

2ndGenGuy

12-12-2007, 12:01 AM

Thank you again roodoo! You are the man. Got that carb right spot on!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01321.jpg

Here's the gasket I needed, and it came with the new valve. Wee! Time to get building now!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01323.jpg

2oodoor

12-13-2007, 05:09 PM

So what jets , emulsion tubes and whatnot does that carb have?
I may be interested in getting one of those if there are more.
121 CC equals what Liters? 151 is 2.5 so about 1.9?

2ndGenGuy

12-13-2007, 06:22 PM

So what jets , emulsion tubes and whatnot does that carb have?
I may be interested in getting one of those if there are more.
121 CC equals what Liters? 151 is 2.5 so about 1.9?

I haven't quite been able to get the emulsion tubes out yet. I soaked bottom end of the carb in some wheel acid for about 10 minutes to get all the nasty stuff off, then sprayed some WD40 down on the emulsion tubes in hopes that they'll come out tonight. If not, I'm going to have to get a small tap, and thread a screw in there to get them out. I hope I don't have to do that, since I think it will ruin them...

I've been trying all week to get a hold of the guy I got this one from. He's got 2 more of them (why he bought 3 ice cream trucks, I'll never know). I was hoping to take them off his hands and rebuild or just sell them. If I get a hold of one, I'll let you know. They seem to be in great shape for their age.

EDIT: Roodoo, I think you'll love this. I use it for everything! Google rocks:
http://www.google.com/search?q=121+cubic+inches+to+liters

121 (cubic inches) = 1.98283474 liters

You can even get super complicated with currency conversion and metric to standard conversion too. Like wohdog was telling me gas is $1.71NZ / liter and I wanted to convert it to US dollars and gallons. I no longer felt bad about our gas prices:

http://www.google.com/search?q=1.70+NZD+per+liter+to+us+dollars+per+gall on

2oodoor

12-13-2007, 06:33 PM

ice cream man draws kids young and old out of the house, I know the business is there, but if it is profitable I am skeptical. I always tip those guys cuz I don't see how they make money but I sure appreciate them.

keep us posted on the numbers inside that carb, good info...

2ndGenGuy

12-13-2007, 10:39 PM

Well, there seem to be brass caps over the idle jets, which I didn't have time to figure out since I worked late tonight. Any idea of an easy way to get them out? They seem to be press fit... The Webers have nice screw on caps to get to those...

These sizes seem kinda wierd, but this is what they said on them:
Primary Main Jet: 183
Secondary Main Jet: 243
Primary Air Corrector: 125
Secondary Air Corrector: 180
Primary Emulsion Tube: 75
Secondary Emulsion Tube: 74

Maybe the 7 is the equivalent to the F? I dunno? :huh:

EDIT: Also, both the primary and secondary venturis say 4.0 on them.

2oodoor

12-28-2007, 02:36 PM

did you get another one or two carbs from the ice dreams guy?
I am hunting around for a carb for the DX

Not sure about the numbers letters thing, maybe somebody knows the conversion

2oodoor

12-28-2007, 02:40 PM

oh, on removing the caps, you find a good bulky place around the cap you can drill into with a very small drillbit. Preferably not on the bottom side, but it ok as long as it is not too close to the ventrui opening or vacuum track. Drill down beside the plug so you can get under it with a pick and pop it out. Another way is to drill into the plug itself ifyou can and screw in something you can grip to pull it out, they actually used to make a mini slide hammer kit to do this with.

2ndGenGuy

12-28-2007, 04:44 PM

No, I couldn't get a hold of the guy. I know where he lives, but I don't really know him well enough to just stop by his place. Of course, I suppose he could be on vacation or something too, so I am going to call him after the new year. He also has a flywheel that I desperately need for my 1g Accord.

2oodoor

02-16-2008, 03:41 AM

any progress with the holley? I am going to the JY soon for parts to upgrade the DX, think I will add chevettes to my list.

2ndGenGuy

02-16-2008, 09:34 AM

I got it all rebuilt, but it's been sitting up on the shelf while I work on my hatch. Now that the hatch is happy, I'm going to toss the Weber on my '84 hopefully on Sunday. Going to have to fab linkage, since the current linkage on it hits the intake manifold. Then I'll probably toss my spare Weber jets in it and see how it does. The sucky part is that the idle jets are behind these little pressed in brass caps. So I'll have to figure out how to get those out too.

2oodoor

02-16-2008, 09:37 AM

I used to have to pull those caps all the time, post a picture of that and I will tell you which method would be best.. if you want.
check out my DX thread, I found a real Weber at the yard this morning.

2ndGenGuy

02-16-2008, 10:12 AM

That was a deal you got at the junk yard man for a real Weber. I thought my Holley was a deal for free, but after buying 2 rebuild kits for it, I've paid almost $50 for it. I've been finding rebuilt Holley 5200 carbs for about $60.

2ndGenGuy

04-01-2008, 10:32 PM

Hey Roodoo, scored some more Holley 5200s. Traded these two for a quick format and reinstall of Windows on a friends computer. Needed the high idle kickdown lever for the AMC carb on the 2g anyways.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3253/2382304088_be3d4edf4e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/2382304088/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3157/2381473167_802a05470c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/2381473167/)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2339/2381473023_dbd8c95e6a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/2381473023/)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2289/2381472795_06c82bd851.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/2381472795/)

Here's the tags, can you work your magic and identify them?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/2382304254_48c401cd72.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2382318152_afd0b34382.jpg

2oodoor

04-02-2008, 03:30 AM

Cool two to one barrel adapter !
Are either of those sychronous or are both the progressive type?\I have been researching for oem carbs, seems like there were some sychronous opening webers oem on a few, very few cars, but I can't nail it for sure. Also would like to find one of those DFAV 40 I keep reading about on BMW 2002 sites, I can't locate anybody that still sells those.

Do you still have the first top hat gasket shown in this thread? can you measure the space between the two holes in front by the fuel inlet, I am having a hard time getting that gasket for this DGV 5A I have, of course I am trying to get it without ordering it from weber. lol I have one but it is way small, must have been for a 28/32.
I went thru some old carb kit books yesterday at that obsolete parts store. I will look up your tags and post them shortley.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/holley5200/DSC01315.jpg

2oodoor

04-02-2008, 06:50 AM

2ndGenGuy

04-02-2008, 08:54 AM

No luck on ID, those are tough ones. The motorcraft tag must be for a reman. per application. The other one runs in line with some Chrysler numbers but I can't find it.
Good thing is you can get the jets and emulsion tubes out for a tuning kit. I would be interested to know what all of them are. That adapter kind of looks OEM, maybe for an industrial application of some sort.

Thanks for checking. That adapter is for the air cooled VW motors. Bolts to the manifold where that old tiny Solex used to go. After I get the 2g going this week, I'll dissect these things and check out the jetting in all of them. Might need to anyways just to get the jets if the AMC carb doesn't run right. They're both progressive. I'd love to find a synchronous.

I'll check out that gasket too and get you the measurements tonight. I'll let you know how that AMC carb works out too.

Oh also, did you check eBay for those top hat gaskets? They sell them there for about $1.50 each.

cygnus x-1

04-06-2008, 07:05 PM

If you can't find a gasket you could always get some gasket paper and cut out your own. It's tedious but works in a pinch.

C|

2ndGenGuy

04-14-2008, 07:20 PM

Got the carb on the car. Had to mod the adapter plate a bit for the linkage to clear. Best to run these carbs with a spacer I think. I'm going to try to order one tonight or tomorrow. I've got a THICK gasket from one of the rebuild kits on top of a plastic spacer that came with the original Weber DGEV kit for the 2g Accord.

Bummer is the throttle shafts are leaking quite badly and the carb is running REALLY lean. It runs well enough to keep the car running so I can move it, but you can hear it knocking. Also it won't run without the choke plates closed, due I'm guessing, to all the air getting in.

So I was wondering where you might recommend I pick up new throttle shaft bushings and a carb spacer? Google seems to be rather unhelpful on this topic. I suppose I can call a couple local carb shops and see what they say. Also do you know any places to pick up a cheap air filter for the 5200? I might just mod something I find at the junk yard...

Crap... I still gotta measure that gasket for ya.

2oodoor

04-15-2008, 03:56 AM

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/archive/index.php/f-1177.html
lots of posts on webers here, there is a guy in Italy that is a great seller. I will copy that here in a little while.
I have read that the Holley bushings are not servicable in later models, I can't confirm that though. There is bearing kit for the weber that would work if the holley shaft housing is drilled... I think.

2ndGenGuy

04-15-2008, 08:42 AM

I've seen those bearing kits. Links I saw go to weberjets.com which is now some defunct site because it looks like they forgot to renew their domain name... I'm sure I can find more of them.

I'm not entirely sure if these are replaceable or not. But when I had the linkage off, I could see what looked like brass bushings around the throttle shafts. There was all kinds of fuel coming out from around them. Guess I'll have to check again tonight.

2ndGenGuy

04-15-2008, 11:14 PM

Well I ordered a 1/2 inch spacer / carb insulator and a bunch of gaskets from IPD down in Portland. That should keep me from having any weird leaks at the base of the carb. Calling Pierce Manifolds tomorrow. Looks like they have a tool to ream the throttle shafts out to 8.5mm for oversize bushings. So I'm going to see if they sell the bushings as well. Logic would assume so, but they don't show them on their website.

Also, sorry roodoo. I keep forgetting to do this stuff, but here are your measurements. Hope it's not too little too late. I think that at least one of these are the measurements you were looking for.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/DSC01566.jpg
This is measuring the space between the holes.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/DSC01567.jpg
This I measured from hole to hole.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/jgturk/DSC01569.jpg
And this measurement is for those other two holes on the top of the photo. I used the inside measuring part.

All the measurements are in inches. Hope one of those are what you're looking for.

Oldblueaccord

04-16-2008, 05:33 AM

Its really common on used carbs for the shaft bushings to be worn. If you measure the shaft you might be able to find some tubing thats close and "rebush" the carb. But it will take some tricky redrilling of the original bushings and a carb disassembly. I'm pretty sure Holley does this service as well.

I'd check you float level if it won't run with the choke off.

wp

EDIT well there in your state
http://www.carburetion.com/bushings.htm

2oodoor

04-16-2008, 06:02 AM

Thanks
No I still have not finished the carb yet, it has a brass float which I would like to keep but there is a place on one of the seams and I hear something rattling inside it. It may or may not be damaged.
You say gas is coming out badly from your throttle shaft, that sounds like a float level issue or a low vaccuum making the power valve add gas from the bowl down the venturi.
Did the opel archive page show up for you? there are lots and lots of good questions answered in there. I have found more info on DGV family carbs there than anywhere, well except for here http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23153
they may not pertain to Honda but a lot of DGV carb dialogue takes place.
I am probably going to order a 38/38 next month. I am going to try one more time to find one in the JY first though.

2ndGenGuy

04-16-2008, 08:51 AM

Well when it was leaking gas out the throttle shaft, I actually had the carb up on the bench and was trying to get the linkage hooked back up to it. The float bowl was damn near empty by the time I had it over to the bench...

I did take the top hat off anyways, and measured and set the float levels according to the 5200 diagram that came with the rebuild kit. Initially, it was running for a few seconds and then dying off, which is why I checked the float level. Turns out the passage where the fuel was going into the float bowl from the fuel line was clogged. After I unclogged it, it seemed to run fine, but still with that choke issue.

I'm wondering now if the problem isn't the fuel pressure... I've got a shitty Schucks fuel pressure regulator in front of a nice Holley red fuel pump... But my butane bottle still tells me there's a vacuum leak at the throttle shaft, so I know for sure I need to fix that first.

Thanks for the link to the bushings, oldblueaccord. I'll have to give them a call and see if I can get them to send me bushings. Looks like they wanna do it in house, since that's where they make some money. I ordered a couple off of eBay and we'll see what comes of those.

I did check out that Opel page. It was really awesome. Just reading through the posts was pretty sweet. It's definitely in my bookmarks now.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll keep you updated.

2oodoor

04-16-2008, 10:41 AM

you did take the internal filter and clean it, the one that is inside the big nut thing by the inlet, right?
You can have some vacuum sucking at the shafts some and still be ok, not perfect but ok.

Oldblueaccord

04-16-2008, 01:18 PM

I'm thinking a guy on moparts.com did this himself with either commonly found brass tubing or it might have been brake line. I can't really remember.

I thought there services were a little pricey my self but they have the rods for my Quadrajet :)

wp

2ndGenGuy

04-16-2008, 01:32 PM

I don't have the internal filter anymore. Well, it was never in there. I figured why bother, since there is already 2 filters in the fuel system.

The throttle shaft seems to be leaking badly enough that the idle mixture adjust screw doesn't do anything at all. I suppose it could be leaking around my insulator gasket and 1/4 inch phenolic spacer too, but that will be solved soon enough.

I thought that was a bit spendy too. But I'm sure it's not bad considering the labor to do it. If they're not making $60/hr, they're losing money, I'm sure.

Not really worth it to me for this carb though, especially considering Clifford Performance sells rebuilt, and tested 5200's for about $60.

2ndGenGuy

04-20-2008, 10:10 PM

So I got my carb spacer from iPD. Looks like its going to work pretty sweet. It's just the right height to clear the carb linkage from the adapter plate.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2249/2429842829_29ff0a3dac.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2229/2429842997_7325d7abe2.jpg?v=0

Here's the throttle shaft. You can see the brass bushing in there. So once I get the throttle shafts out, I'll try to match them up to something. I bought a couple nylon Weber throttle shafts off eBay for dirt cheap, but I don't know if they'll work...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2021/2430657048_eebeae34d3.jpg?v=0

How do you recommend I remove these caps like this? This is at the other end of the primary throttle shaft. There's also one of these where I think the primary main jet is too.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2262/2430656882_f2d23d8193.jpg?v=0

Also, I can't get these throttle plate screws out. I used a ton of penetrating lube on them too. Now that I think about it, I think those might be peened to prevent them from backing out and falling into your intake... hmmm.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/2429843171_a996da753b.jpg?v=0

They come out nicely part way then stop coming out. I sat and worked them back and forth for about an hour and made progress but never got any of them completely out... Guess I'll hit the back side of them with the grinder and try again tomorrow... :tongue:

2oodoor

04-21-2008, 05:16 AM

yes, they are peened, hopefully the threads,,.. well you are getting into code 3 territory now :) I have this DGV as an example to look at for you and it does not have caps. do you have a weber book, it has a process i think on how to get those shafts out unscathed, if you bend them it's all over.
The plug, hrmmm if you have all the hardware off the linkage side and the butterflys are out you may be able to give it a gentle nudge to get it started. if you can get the shaft to back out the linkage side you will be ok,you could mini drill and slide hammer it out. It may not be dooable and you can't remove any material from that area for obviious reasons.