Advice on possible 3G purchase...

[OptimusPrimeSr]

My beloved CB7 was totaled last week by the insurance company after a soccer-mom ran me into the concrete divider on the interstate. So I'm in the search process for a new car and came across an 87 LX 4dr Accord.

The seller owns a Honda/Acura shop where I bought my 91EX off of him back in 2001. So when I found out my car was totaled, I called him up and asked him what he had on the lot. Nothing peaked my interest with the exception of this 87LX.

The car has 150,000 miles on it and blew a head gasket. He has since replaced the motor, hoses, belts, seals, gaskets, radiator. The carburetor, distributor, tranny (manual) are original.

I went to see it and the interior and exterior were in bad shape.

Exterior: The wipers washer system needs new tubing, the antenna is snapped off, the paint is faded all over (gold btw), a few minor rust spots, front/rear bumper are faded (originally black).

Interior: The seats are dirty with a few tears, the radio and speakers are missing, the front door panels are crap.


Test Drive: The test drive was smooth. Started right up and idled smooth (I battled/conquered a surging idle with the 91EX). AC/Heat, lights (heads/brights/tail/brake), clutch/shifting, windows/locks (auto) all checked out.

I told him the car was dumpy and a little old to justify $2600 (asking price). I asked him why he decided to drop a new motor and all that work into this dumpy looking car. He said he bought a bunch of these motors 2 years ago when Honda was trying to get rid of them. He had no trouble getting rid of the of gen4 engines, but that he was having trouble moving the gen3 ones and also needed something to work on. I would like to make him an offer in 4 days.

Questions
1) How far off is his asking price. He showed me the bill for the work...$2800 (BUT he included $1000 for labor...sigh)
2) Anything else I'm missing when I checked the car out/took it for a test drive?
3) What kind of trouble should I look out for if I purchase this car (mechanically speaking)?

edit: carfax report was clean as a whistle. not even a failed emissions inspection.

[AccordEpicenter]

its not worth 2600, does the ac work?

[OptimusPrimeSr]

yeah, the a/c works.

what's it worth?

[labeledsk8r]

not 2,600... the downfalls... its carb... bad paint. rust. the new engine is a plus but can only bump the worth up sp much... id say 1,400 MAYBY , just seems like its got everything bad except the block lol

[Cheeseburger]

yeah i would stay away from the LX. if u really want a 3rd gen get urself a lx-i or se-i

[MessyHonda]

yeah fuel injected 5 speed is the best combo for these cars

[OptimusPrimeSr]

I really feel the urge to validate a decision to buy here likely due to the fact that I like old hondas, am inspired by a lot of the work on this forum, and really really want a manual.

I need more reasons why this is a bad car...I'm going to make an offer, but I want some ammo to support my price. I do have 2 other backup cars that I am willing to walk away from this car for...but my time is limited as I go back to work on Jan2 and need transportation by then.

[Civic Accord Honda]

well the car sounds nice but no stock 3gee is really worth more then $1500 unless its super mint or a SE-i in good cond

[russiankid]

The car sounds like a project for sure. For that price it better be in very good condition, which it is not so talk him down. As far as reliability these cars are great if cared for. Be ready to spend some money into the suspension as it is probably in need of some work. Rubber parts tend to crack over time, so bushings, engine mounts, etc..will need replacement in the future. As far as the carb goes, just buy a rebuild kit from a local auto parts store and rebuild the carb. Replace any cracked vacuum lines and replace fuel lines.

As you see its quiet a bit of work on these old cars, so the asking price is to much.

Good Luck!

[race12001]

yea as much that is wrong with it just walk away it aint worh what he is askin i say buy a cheapo til you can find a good lx-i or se-i

[blazin3gen]

i would deff stay away from a carb..

like cheese said get a lxi or sei probly gonna be a lxi they are not that hard to find also u will be happy in the long run carbs suck

[OptimusPrimeSr]

gotcha. any reason(s) in particular why I should avoid carbs? emissions, performance, lifespan?

[russiankid]

gotcha. any reason(s) in particular why I should avoid carbs? emissions, performance, lifespan?

Carb's are not bad if you know what you are doing, but they sure are higher in maintenance than EFI. That is why most people stay away from them as passing emissions is also a bit harder, and performance is also decreased as for all the crap that is needed for it to pass emissions.

[86ccord]

allright.. allright.. i have an 86.. a year older than what you got.. it was in better shape than yours.. (( from what ive gathered.. )) its carbbed..and runs smooth.. and has radio.. sound system..(( that doesnt crackle.. )).. and its fully loaded.. just it has 5 speed.. and no sunroof.. also.. it had a brand new custom paint job..sooo..and i got all of that for a grand total of; $350.00


so to me.. it looks like your getting ripped.. but hey.. do what you do.. im happy with my 3gee..and im not trading it for the world.. its the perfect car for me.. cause im unique.. and i like to have things that no one else has.. and so far.. ive seen one other than mine in my area.. so im happy... but good luck with what ever you decided to do.. ! glad to see you on the 3geez family web page!

[itzdave]

i wouldnt pay more that 1000 for it. i got a carb, its not that bad...

[MessyHonda]

i hate my carb....thats why i got a fuel injected one..and lets just say....the difference is amazing.

[2oodoor]

i hate my carb....thats why i got a fuel injected one..and lets just say....the difference is amazing.

not that much amazing, carbed Accords have their quirks but there sure are alot of them still around with over 300K miles
Make sure the brakes are updated in good shape, and engine should be zero leaks of any kind.


a warrenty would be a plus for the price, is he going to warrenty the engine and work?

[coope]

man don't get it if he wont go down on the price say man its a crapy carby and he'll go down

[MessyHonda]

not that much amazing, carbed Accords have their quirks but there sure are alot of them still around with over 300K miles
Make sure the brakes are updated in good shape, and engine should be zero leaks of any kind.


a warrenty would be a plus for the price, is he going to warrenty the engine and work?

on the lx-i everything is upgraded....and for 500 bucks i could not complain..

[2oodoor]

:)
on the lx-i everything is upgraded....and for 500 bucks i could not complain..

:) I said updated not upgraded, but were all glad you like your car.
$2600 is too much for the car, unless he gives you some kind of super warrenty, otherwise free to 2000 tops. but you have to think if that is TRUELY a new motor in that car, those are hard to beat, factory build.. how much would it cost you do have one built oem now days? 800-1000?

[A18A]

look at the million k 3gee for a good example of good carbed engines :) i like carbed engines cause of how simple they are lol, and the way the whole engine performs doesn't rely on a couple tiny wires. the only electrics needed for them to run smoothly is the solenoid on the back of the carb, spark, and fuel pump

[frantik]

the reason you shouldn't buy a carbed 3gee is because you can buy a fuel injected 3gee for almost the same price and get 10-20 more horse power plus there's no vacuum lines which means it's easier to maintain/looks nicer. Also you can do mods such as intake and strut tower bar.

I've owned and LX and an LX-i and can say for sure do not spend your money on an LX [no offense to lx owners, they're great cars but not worth buying at this time for anything but a DD imo] , especially not anywhere near $2800. If it was mint everywhere maybe $2000. Faded paint and thrashed interior = closer to $1000

[OptimusPrimeSr]

roodoo2,

good point on the warranty. i'll demand 1yr/12k mile at the minimum on the engine work and new axles.

also, what do you mean by "updated" brakes?

[2oodoor]

New brakes, not 20 year old parts, wheel cyl, master cyl, or hardware. Fresh pads and shoes. Have yourself set for at least two years of use without any major issues.


An old philosphy I used to use : you can pay around 2500 a year for a vehicle, whether it be payments or just a cheap car you pay that much for, if you get more use out of it then you did real good.
If you want to pay more, say like a new car:average 20,000 dollars equals 400 a month payments, 4800 a year. plus ins, yearly tax tag, and maintenance.
Just ballpark figures....

[OptimusPrimeSr]

gotcha...thanks. I'm planning on going through the maintenance records for the car (single meticulous owner) on 12/26...so I'll check for brake work.

Assuming the brakes have been worked on recently, I'm planning to offer $1800+1yr/12k mile warranty on recent work.

This car is going to be a daily driver until I finish getting moved in to my new place and get some more money in my car fund. I'm interested in fixing this up and learning a hell of a lot on the way. Thanks!

[2oodoor]

sounds reasonable, tell him you are subtracting for the cost of a weber conversion kit. lol

[OptimusPrimeSr]

haha...weber (from what I understand) is out of the question for now as I'll be registering the car in Georgia. Hopefully I'll find a "nice" place to take it for the annual emissions inspection.

[2oodoor]

what you are going to Altanta Metro? only counties inside of the I-285 perimeter have to have smog stickers
I don't know for sure what they check, you can pass the tailpipe sniffer with a weber though.

[OptimusPrimeSr]

Fulton County...I thought I read somewhere that a weber would cause a failure in emissions states...maybe that was just CA?

http://www.cleanairforce.com/motorists/emissiontesting.php
----

All 1996 and newer vehicles will receive a two-part inspection.

* An OBD test to check your vehicle’s emission control performance history.
* A fuel cap inspection to check for adequate seal.

If an OBD test is unable to be performed on a vehicle, it may be necessary to perform a Two-Speed Idle test (TSI).

All 1995 and older model year vehicles will receive a four-part inspection:

* A visual inspection of the catalytic converter to check for tampering or removal.
* ASM2 or Accelerated Simulation Mode Test - A dual-mode test including a 25/25 test = 25 percent load at 25 MPH and a 50/15 test = 50 percent load at 15 MPH.
* A tailpipe exhaust emission test.
* A fuel cap inspection to check for adequate seal.

An inspector can reject a vehicle for testing if it is considered unsafe to test. If the test has already begun when the safety problem is detected, the inspector may charge the full price of the test.

[w261w261]

Optimus, if you will do a search through the threads here, you'll find plenty of people tearing their hair out trying to troubleshoot their carbed cars. It seems to me that Honda got into their mode of doing something just to prove it could be done, and they loaded the carbs with more vacuum lines and assorted bullshit, any of them being able to ruin your day when they start to act up. Was the "new motor" a new block with an old carb, or is all the carb stuff new too? That would probably be good to know. It's easy for me to run the carbs down, as I have a f.i. car, but for my .02 I'd never get involved with them. And, that extra 20hp comes in handy too.

[2oodoor]

you should be able to pass with a weber if that is all they are checking. they run a lot cleaner than a messed up stock carb I will say that. you just need to get the 32/36 kit made for A20, already jetted correctly. You may need to put a new cat on that car though.

[jdaddy88lx-i]

Dont buy that car for that price. I paid 2600 for my lxi 3 years ago but it was in really good condition at that time. No dents, no rust, very minor paint fade, clean interior, and new cd player wich is still playing right now. I was suspect but the car only had 136k on it and I was provided the service records and most all the work was done at the same shop.

This car is nowhere near that condition(not bragging). Keep in mind that you
WILL have to put money in this car so do you really want to drop that amount of cash to buy and still come out the pocket?

For what you described, I have to say not more than 1200 cuase that replacement motor is still suspect along with that trans.

[w261w261]

I paid what I thought was the market-correct price for my 86k 5 spd SE-i in 2001: $2,500.00, and it needed a few things to boot (actually, one of them *was* a boot). But the paint was great, the leather except for the driver's seat was mint, and it was a one-owner straight example. I can't see any way your car is worth more than $2k, and I sure wouldn't pay even that, but of course I wouldn't get near a carb car. Life is too short.

[blazin3gen]

yea those who have drove a carb 3g and a efi 3g will tell u its not worth it do as u please!

btw i hate those damn vacumme lines

[86ccord]

oh awesome.. how did i get soo lucky? but im happy...

[OptimusPrimeSr]

update: $1800 (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?p=848149#post848149)