welding question

[newaccorddriver]

im tempted to purchase a flux core mig welder to make a manofild for the A20 and the RB20. does anyone know if something like a princess auto(i think harbor freight is your equivalent?) mig welder would do the trick? im talking something with like a welder that is 60-90 amp welder with just those 2 adjustments.

[2oodoor]

flux core are generally for novice use but they work. It takes a good bit of practice with those.
You can weld up to 1/4 inch with those, BUT you may have to groove your butt work, and then weld it in layers, toggleing the mig gun so that the work does not get too hot in the weld area. I would recommend getting the flux core mig that has capability to convert to argon gas and standard wire.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=6271

[Lil Mike]

I wouldnt cheap out on a welder i would get Lincoln Welder that has alot more temperature settings, and you can control the wire speed. So you can weld 1/4 inch thick metal down to 14 gauge

[lostforawhile]

flux core are generally for novice use but they work. It takes a good bit of practice with those.
You can weld up to 1/4 inch with those, BUT you may have to groove your butt work, and then weld it in layers, toggleing the mig gun so that the work does not get too hot in the weld area. I would recommend getting the flux core mig that has capability to convert to argon gas and standard wire.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=6271
why not use the cheaper one to tack up your headers where they will fit,and everything works, and bolts up, then take the whole thing out and have it tig welded up. this will give you a much better weld then trying to use the cheap welder. the hard part is getting everything fitted together.

[fogged]

I use Miller pro 300 welders in my shop, and a Miller Dynasty at the house. A home welder is always fun to have. Just make sure that you dont cheat yourself. Get a welder that will not only do your FCAW like you want, but make sure it can do GMAW as well. Now if cash is on your side a welder that can do SMAW and GTAW would be the shit(Miller Dynasty 300DX) can do all four and dont cost all that much green. Another thing to look at is how long can the welder go. Most light duty welders cant weld longer than 3min (non-stop that is) without overheating. So try and find a welder with like a 40% to 60% duty cycle (they can weld for 10min non-stop) that way if you get into a long weld bead you dont overheat your welder and burn it up, and burn your house down.

With all that said. like RooDoo said FCAW is for noobs. After a few months your just going to wish you had somthing better.

:wave::cheers:Happy Welding

[newaccorddriver]

why not use the cheaper one to tack up your headers where they will fit,and everything works, and bolts up, then take the whole thing out and have it tig welded up. this will give you a much better weld then trying to use the cheap welder. the hard part is getting everything fitted together.


the entire purpose of this thread is to see if its actually worth getting/doing. ive seen a thread on HMT where this guy made himself a manifold for his prelude and he only used a flux core MIG to do the job. looked fairly good if you ask me.

the problem with getting everything fitted together and welded by a pro is that it is going to be costly since it would take probably 5 hours to weld everything together, so if its going to cost me $500 for labor, the manifold itself is already costing me $1000, and i dont exactly have that much cash flowing since im going to be going to school soon

[carotman]

Yes it's worth it but get yourself a welder that can be converted to standard MIG like fogged said.

I did my first welds with a a flux core welder then I converted it to use gas. It's alot easier to weld thin panels with gas.

[lostforawhile]

the entire purpose of this thread is to see if its actually worth getting/doing. ive seen a thread on HMT where this guy made himself a manifold for his prelude and he only used a flux core MIG to do the job. looked fairly good if you ask me.

the problem with getting everything fitted together and welded by a pro is that it is going to be costly since it would take probably 5 hours to weld everything together, so if its going to cost me $500 for labor, the manifold itself is already costing me $1000, and i dont exactly have that much cash flowing since im going to be going to school soon it shouldn' t take anywhere near 5 hours to weld it up outside of the car. the reason i said use the cheap welder,is you can tack weld everything together on the car,where it's properly fitted, then remove it in once piece. it shouldn't take more then 45 minutes to weld it together if' its allready fitted and spot welded.

[2oodoor]

why not use the cheaper one to tack up your headers where they will fit,and everything works, and bolts up, then take the whole thing out and have it tig welded up. this will give you a much better weld then trying to use the cheap welder. the hard part is getting everything fitted together.

um, the welder I linked is on special now for $219, that IS a cheap welder. And it can be used with gas, and it can be used for bodywork, roll cages, make bbq grills... but dont try to weld all night with it. This one is 299.00 , a little better. This idea could pay for itself with a few welding jobs newaccorddriver$
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93793

[newaccorddriver]

um, the welder I linked is on special now for $219, that IS a cheap welder. And it can be used with gas, and it can be used for bodywork, roll cages, make bbq grills... but dont try to weld all night with it. This one is 299.00 , a little better. This idea could pay for itself with a few welding jobs newaccorddriver$
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93793



the main problem with those welders that you posted is the fact that their from harbor freight. nothing againest them, but i cant drive to montana to pick up something and back as its not economical since i dont live close to the border. the prices are very attractive, although taking at the very minimum 30 hours of time to pick something up like that isnt practical enough for me.

[newaccorddriver]

it shouldn' t take anywhere near 5 hours to weld it up outside of the car. the reason i said use the cheap welder,is you can tack weld everything together on the car,where it's properly fitted, then remove it in once piece. it shouldn't take more then 45 minutes to weld it together if' its allready fitted and spot welded.

are we talking about my accord or skyline here?

my skyline im going to try and construct a top mount manifold of a simple design. probably same with the accord. the problem with tacking everything together and bringing it to a pro is that the pro is gonna charge me an assload of cash to weld it all up. the reason i say this is because it took them 1 hour to drill 3 holes into my crank pulley and trigger wheel, weld that up, and grind off the remaining metal. it was a fairly cheap task given what they had to do, buy that was only 3 simple tasks that they had to do. for something like a manifold, they have to weld together 6 runners, a 6 cylinder collector, and all the pipes which is probably around 12-20 more welds. quite the costly task if you ask me. if it takes them 45 minues to weld it together, then they are considered my welding gods, but i can easily see then taking maybe 3-5 hours to complete the task. not a bad price considering their pros, but if they burnt a hole through a runner, it would be a shitstorm to fall on them.


out of curiosity, how did you come up with the 45 minute estimate? i figured it would take alot longer then 45 minutes to weld up an entire manifold.

[newaccorddriver]

Yes it's worth it but get yourself a welder that can be converted to standard MIG like fogged said.

I did my first welds with a a flux core welder then I converted it to use gas. It's alot easier to weld thin panels with gas.


is a gas fed MIG welder that much better then flux core? i know it has considerably less spatter, but isnt that about it?

i can probably find a decent one from cambodian tire that can go from flux core to gas since their on sale right now when i went there today. the main problem im having is that most of the tools i buy i only use once, so most things get thrown in the corner(ive bought 4 tool sets in the last 3 years)., so i tend to buy some of the cheaper items that will suffice and get the job done and thats it.

[carotman]

I recommend that you buy the entry level Lincoln Electric from Canadian Tire. That's the one I got here (the previous version) and it's a great welder. Flux core is okay for some jobs but gas welders make cleaner joints.

It's often on special at 399.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=140847439 6672983&bmUID=1198714582174&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443299189&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true

The great fact about this welder is that it CAN be converted to standarg MIG. You can be lucky and find a CT where they have the precious version on close out sale (MIG PAK 10)

You could also get this one since it's on sale this week. It cal also be converted to standarg MIG.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=140847439 6672983&bmUID=1198714582369&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443299187&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true

The Lincoln has a bit more power settings and is more powerful but if you want a flux welder that does the job, the Mastercraft is a good pick. You could buy a gas regulator and bottle if you want to convert it in the future. The Lincoln already comes with the regulator so that's why it's more expensive.

Both welders are 115V which is quite practical if you want to carry it around the house. No need to get a huge costy 220V extension from your stove outlet :p

From what you describe, the Mastercraft should be able to do what you need. Make sure the 5/32 thickness rating for it is enough to weld your manifold. The Lincoln is more powerful and can weld Thinner/Thicker materials (since it has more power settings)

[newaccorddriver]

im considering getting that MC one this week if its still on sale when i get paid. the main thing is that i wont be using it on a daily basis regardless of which model i get.

how this is schedule 40 1.5" piping anyways? i know its 0.145 thick, but what is it as a fraction?

[fogged]

Id go with the MC if your not sure just how mush use it wil get. If you want to upgrade it can be done. The down fall is your going to spend more money on the upgrades. Now for the money the Lincoln is a way better buy.

[markb]

if there is one thing Ive learned in my years of having to buy tools. You get what you pay for usually. if you buy a $59.99 welder... well you got a crappy welder...

[2oodoor]

fair statement markb
but if you are a typical DIY, you don't need commercial grade tools.
Flux core is supposed to be messy and hard to get adjusted in order to make pretty, penetrated beads. Most of the reason I guess I have heard that is because inexperienced welders are the main ones using them:) \Gas mig is the only wire feed I have used, aluminum or steel spool gun. \with gas you can weld a wider variety of material with the same wire, just by changing the speed and heat. The flux core limits you in how hot and how fast the wire speed simply because you have a premeasured amount of flux per unit of wire.
The thing about taking that manifold, the larger one, to a shop and having it done is they may want to make a jig to weld it up in so it does not change dimisions as they are welding it. Of course that would be extra cost as well, and it does not neccesarily HAVE To be done that way, but some shops may want to in order to gurantee the work.

[carotman]

www.mig-welding.co.uk

This website will tell you everything you need to know about welding :D

The MC welder can be converted to gas for like 80 bucks

[newaccorddriver]

The thing about taking that manifold, the larger one, to a shop and having it done is they may want to make a jig to weld it up in so it does not change dimisions as they are welding it. Of course that would be extra cost as well, and it does not neccesarily HAVE To be done that way, but some shops may want to in order to gurantee the work.


the only thing i have for a jig is the spare head that ive got. im estimating on where the block would normally be, so i shouldnt have a problem clearing the block

[newaccorddriver]

www.mig-welding.co.uk

This website will tell you everything you need to know about welding :D

The MC welder can be converted to gas for like 80 bucks


ive been to that website numerous times, and they are very informative.

it doesnt just cost $80 to convert that MC welder to gas, you gotta throw in the cost of the bottom and gas itself which is a fair chunk of change

[fogged]

Ive been welding for almost 20yrs now, and own my own shop. If you want a welder for a one time job, just get that cheap ass MC. If your going to do any other jobs. (ie body work, or other fab work) Then wait for your cash flow to build up a bit, and buy you a worth while welder. If you cant wait and dont want to do it your self, send it to me and I have one of the guys in the shop weld it up. Ill charge you shop rate of $50 an hour.

[AccordEpicenter]

at least get somthing with a shielding gas, flux core sucks ass. Huge step up

[Oldblueaccord]

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00946855000P?vName=Tools&cName=ElectricalShop&sName=Welders&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

I have a similair version of this one at home. I really like it for what it is and I have no reason to upgrade since I have access to all the welders(types) mentioned above. I like that it is cheap, 110v, no gas, and very portable.

You could maybe look into renting a wire feed for a day or two when your ready to weld up what your needing. That way you can try out without the the big investment in a welder.

Flux core is very very popular in the industry esp in large pipe fitting jobs and there is nothing wrong with the welds as long as there are done properly just like any other welding process. The most important thing with flux core is you must chip your welds (just like stick welding) .


wp

[fogged]

Wow.... Thats a bast from the past. I started welding with a Century. They are good for small jobs and noobie welders. For that matter I might still have my old century in the shop storage room.

[carotman]

ive been to that website numerous times, and they are very informative.

it doesnt just cost $80 to convert that MC welder to gas, you gotta throw in the cost of the bottom and gas itself which is a fair chunk of change

I was refering to the gas regulator only. Any "gas ready" welder will still need that you purchase the bottle. The bottle itself is pricy but I can get refills at 40$ here.

[newaccorddriver]

Ive been welding for almost 20yrs now, and own my own shop. If you want a welder for a one time job, just get that cheap ass MC. If your going to do any other jobs. (ie body work, or other fab work) Then wait for your cash flow to build up a bit, and buy you a worth while welder. If you cant wait and dont want to do it your self, send it to me and I have one of the guys in the shop weld it up. Ill charge you shop rate of $50 an hour.


ya, i think im going to take the time and save up a bit before i buy a welder. ill probably get one thats both flux and gas. welding is something that always interested me, but i never had the welder itself to practice with.

$50 an hour is insanely cheap for labor considering its roughly $100 an hour for a shop to do it here. i might have to take you up on that offer some day. any estimate on how much it is to do a sidewinder style manifold?(welding portion, not fabrication)

[newaccorddriver]

I was refering to the gas regulator only. Any "gas ready" welder will still need that you purchase the bottle. The bottle itself is pricy but I can get refills at 40$ here.

$40 is fairly cheap, i think its around $60-90 here depending on where you go and what you want.

how long is a bottle usually good for(welding length wise)?

[fogged]

ya, i think im going to take the time and save up a bit before i buy a welder. ill probably get one thats both flux and gas. welding is something that always interested me, but i never had the welder itself to practice with.

$50 an hour is insanely cheap for labor considering its roughly $100 an hour for a shop to do it here. i might have to take you up on that offer some day. any estimate on how much it is to do a sidewinder style manifold?(welding portion, not fabrication)

If my guys needs to fab it up, prob like 350 to 500. If it comes to me fabbed up just looking for finish welds 100 to 250. Like it was said in the here before it would have to be put in a jig. Thats where most of the cost will come from. Other than that it just depends on if you want it mig welded or tig welded. IMO tig would look alot better. With tig I could have my guys do a fancie lace on the finish pass. With mig it would just be the normal half moon finish pass.

The $50 is what I charge my guys to do stuff after work. Id give you the same price. 3g love

[newaccorddriver]

If my guys needs to fab it up, prob like 350 to 500. If it comes to me fabbed up just looking for finish welds 100 to 250. Like it was said in the here before it would have to be put in a jig. Thats where most of the cost will come from. Other than that it just depends on if you want it mig welded or tig welded. IMO tig would look alot better. With tig I could have my guys do a fancie lace on the finish pass. With mig it would just be the normal half moon finish pass.

The $50 is what I charge my guys to do stuff after work. Id give you the same price. 3g love


makes me wish i lived in the states... everything is sooo cheap its not even funny. to fabricate a manifold here would cost well over 1200 for my manifold alone, unless i cheap out and pick a log manifold, which it will then be 600 still...

what do you mean by it will have to be put on a jig? just something to hold it in place and prevent the flange from warping when you weld it up?


when i tack it and send it, how many tacks do i want to use, and would your guys be able to weld in extremely tight places?

[MessyHonda]

man sounds like a plan

[Ichiban]

If you are getting a small, 110 volt wire welder, I strongly recommend the Miller 135. Don't even bother with flux core, you will get a lot of spatter, and you have to run more heat to get proper bead flowout, and it just sucks on thin material. Spend the extra cash (I think the 135 is about 6-800 CDN, they've come down in price since I bought mine) and get a machine with product support and that you can get parts for in ten years. Go with gas, or you will just hate it.

The millermatic also can accept accessories like a spoolgun, for doing aluminum MIG.

Lincoln also has a small MIG that can run on 110 or 230V, which gives you the versatility but also the ability to weld slightly thicker material in a single pass. Sounds like a neat concept worth looking into.

[newaccorddriver]

i know you get what you pay for guys, but is this welder any good?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/115V-135AMP-FLUX-MIG-WELDER-TWECO-STYLE-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ220187113811QQihZ012QQcategoryZ113743 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



its both flux and mig, never heard of the brand name before, but if im barely using it, it wouldnt matter too much right?

[azazel_18_2]

Depends on what you are welding and how experienced you are. I have used lincoln's and these knock off Harbor Freight welders. The more expensive welders that are true mig welders are easier to use and harder to burn through thin stuff. Don't knock the flux core welders. If you do you must not know much about them. First off, use spatter dip. We have MANY places that build drilling riggs and all they use is flux core welders. They penetrate better and there is less downtime.
I prefer tig welders myself. I have one and will never go back to mig but it definately takes practice.

[fogged]

i know you get what you pay for guys, but is this welder any good?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/115V-135AMP-FLUX-MIG-WELDER-TWECO-STYLE-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ220187113811QQihZ012QQcategoryZ113743 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



its both flux and mig, never heard of the brand name before, but if im barely using it, it wouldnt matter too much right?

Not bad for an off brand welder. One of my guys has one at home that his kid uses so he dont fuck up a $5,000 unit. He's never said anything bad about it.
I just say when you get a unit play with it for a few weeks (both with and without gas, as well as thick and thin metals) before you do any thing on your car or anything thats worth some thing. Splatter dip or slpatter paper is a good idea as well. Any local supply shop shoud be able to set you up with some.

[newaccorddriver]

Not bad for an off brand welder. One of my guys has one at home that his kid uses so he dont fuck up a $5,000 unit. He's never said anything bad about it.
I just say when you get a unit play with it for a few weeks (both with and without gas, as well as thick and thin metals) before you do any thing on your car or anything thats worth some thing. Splatter dip or slpatter paper is a good idea as well. Any local supply shop shoud be able to set you up with some.

great, i think ill be getting that in the next few weeks then. what is spatter dip and how do i use it? is it the same as nozzle dip?

[fogged]

You can use nozzle dip. It dose the same thing.