Manual steering rack interest

[AZmike]

Since my PS rack is leaking I bought a spare to convert to manual. I'm going to remove the piston and all the easily accessible internal seals and replace any mechanical parts that need it. While the PS valve body will be retained in will only function as a seal. The rack will perform exactly like a manual rack with minimal internal drag. My wife drives the Accord sometimes so the converted rack may not end up staying in the car.

My question is would anyone be interested in this rack if my wife decides the steering effort is too high?

[stat1K]

as in interested in the manual rack itself? or the converted rack?

[AZmike]

The power rack is being converted. I was not able to find a manual rack

Once the cylinder and valves are removed and the offset pinion holder is secured in position the power rack is not much different than a manual rack.

[stat1K]

ahh gotcha... yeah it's impossible to find a manual rack isn't it.

[MessyHonda]

ahh gotcha... yeah it's impossible to find a manual rack isn't it.



in canada some 3gee got manual racks...you can also order them online but they want a core...and i dont think they would be too happy with a powered rack

[AccordB20A]

Makes me realise how dumb i was to dump my 1st accord i had. It had a manual steering rack in it and it wasnt that hard to steer.

['A20A3']

i have a interest...depending on price...:wave:

[snoopyloopy]

in canada some 3gee got manual racks...you can also order them online but they want a core...and i dont think they would be too happy with a powered rack

try it and see. i think i might, actually.

[AccordEpicenter]

try it and see. i think i might, actually.

manual racks do not bolt in to a factory ps car. The rear beam is different, as are the mounting points for the manual rack. So to get it to work you either need to fab brackets and hack up the stock rear beam or get the rear beam from a factory manual rack car

[bushbean]

Don't waste your time and money on a converted rack. It's not even close to a manual rack. The steering effort is very great. I converted my PS rack last year by removing the piston and all fluid. With the converted rack, parking and low speed maneuvers are very tiring. I admit steering feel on the freeway greatly improved. Still, it's not worth it in my opinion. I'd try to find a Canadian manual rack before trying to convert one.

[LX-incredible]

Or a 2g manual rack with nissan tie rod ends...

[stat1K]

lol ghetto fabulous aint we!?

[bushbean]

Or a 2g manual rack with nissan tie rod ends...

Would you elaborate? Will it bolt on? What about the subframe?
Which nissan tie rod will be needed?

[AZmike]

Don't waste your time and money on a converted rack. It's not even close to a manual rack. The steering effort is very great. I converted my PS rack last year by removing the piston and all fluid. With the converted rack, parking and low speed maneuvers are very tiring. I admit steering feel on the freeway greatly improved. Still, it's not worth it in my opinion. I'd try to find a Canadian manual rack before trying to convert one.

I've been driving with one for over a month now. You're right--the steering effort at low speeds is pretty high. I don't mind it too much. It's inconvenient in parking lot maneuvers, but the feedback once moving is noticeably better. I think I'm getting slightly better fuel economy as well, but with such a small sample I don't know by how much. Unfortunately my wife hates it so I'll be gong back to power steering since we both use the Accord.

When you converted your rack did you immobilize the pinion holder? Without it secured I'd expect the motion taken up by the pinion holder's rotation to make the steering feel vague and loose.

The primary difference between a properly converted power rack and a manual rack is the steering ratio. The suspension geometry (mostly scrub radius) and front-heavy chassis mean that even with a manual rack the effort will be high. I don't have my shop manual with me, but if I remember right the power rack is about 16:1 and the manual rack is more like 19:1--meaning only 15-20% less effort by going to the manual setup.

[Soopitup]

lol, 15%-20% is alot dude!

[Civic Accord Honda]

hm i just cut the lines and removed my pump and the fluid resvor and all that shit
other then doing slow u turns and parking lots its not that bad

[monkeyhead]

You guys must all run some fat friggin sticky tires or something. All my fluid peed out one day so I just took the belt off. I didn't even do any kind of conversion or any thing and the steering isn't really that bad at all with stock sized all seasons. Except for parking. But even at low speeds it steers just fine. Maybe I'm just super buff. hahahaha

[beran24]

on my 87 it has manual steering i'm just wondering how big of a job it is to convert to PS

[mykwikcoupe]

on my 87 it has manual steering i'm just wondering how big of a job it is to convert to PS

its a bolt on swap as long as you have all the associated parts. Like mentioned before. the rear subframe will need changed as well as the ps components such as lines, hardware, hoses, pump and such. if you seriouly interested Im sure any numberof people on the oard ould be more ten appy to swap you parts. Shipping would be costly but if tht is the only expense probably not as bad as he swap itself. Id be game for a parts exchange myself.

[beran24]

its a bolt on swap as long as you have all the associated parts. Like mentioned before. the rear subframe will need changed as well as the ps components such as lines, hardware, hoses, pump and such. if you seriouly interested Im sure any numberof people on the oard ould be more ten appy to swap you parts. Shipping would be costly but if tht is the only expense probably not as bad as he swap itself. Id be game for a parts exchange myself.

Well i'm kinda lucky cuz i have all the other parts on another car i'm not sure if its even worth doing the swap but I just hate crankin the wheel so hard since i do alot of drivin around town i thought it would be nice to have the ps.

[LX-incredible]

Well i'm kinda lucky cuz i have all the other parts on another car i'm not sure if its even worth doing the swap but I just hate crankin the wheel so hard since i do alot of drivin around town i thought it would be nice to have the ps.

The ps on these cars is excellent, but makes everything so much more cluttered and annoying to work on. I've gotten used to the effort. Drive down to AZ and I'll swap with you... Recently rebuilt rack, newly rebuilt pump, and all the other shit to go with it. I'll even install. lol. Anything beats grinding those damn brackets off the crossmembers.

[beran24]

The ps on these cars is excellent, but makes everything so much more cluttered and annoying to work on. I've gotten used to the effort. Drive down to AZ and I'll swap with you... Recently rebuilt rack, newly rebuilt pump, and all the other shit to go with it. I'll even install. lol. Anything beats grinding those damn brackets off the crossmembers.

ha i wish lol thats wanna hell of a drive for me sayin im 17 still in high school lol

[Rendon LX-i]

My ps feels great...i just looped the 2 hard lines and then i vented the main hard line. i used a clutch resivor off a civic and it works like a dream. keeps the rack with fuild. not hard to turn. i like it. .....Thanks to Jfern on this convo.

easy to do and effective.

[JohnBoy]

My ps feels great...i just looped the 2 hard lines and then i vented the main hard line. i used a clutch resivor off a civic and it works like a dream. keeps the rack with fuild. not hard to turn. i like it. .....Thanks to Jfern on this convo.

easy to do and effective.

so you just looped the lines with a T and have a resivor?

[Rendon LX-i]

ill give you the link

[VIPER1988]

i would like to see this to. getting sick of ps always breaking.

[markmdz89hatch]

I ended up buying this rack from Mike, and already have it in the car, but haven't driven on it yet. I'll let you all know how the steering feel is once I get it going.

[turabaka]

I ended up buying this rack from Mike, and already have it in the car, but haven't driven on it yet. I'll let you all know how the steering feel is once I get it going.

I definitely want to know what it's like. Thinking about doing this on mine, but don't want to make steering too hard for autocross.

[Civic Accord Honda]

i just unbolted the lines and everything on my 4th gen and now the rack is grinding after a couple months >< i need to do what Rendon did but need more detail on how to do it

[89T]

mines not bad, while slightly moving, at a dead stop it's a little stiff.

[2drSE-i]

Or a 2g manual rack with nissan tie rod ends...

I dont think i've ever heard of this. Care to elaborate?

[MessyHonda]

I dont think i've ever heard of this. Care to elaborate?

he is the only one that has done it...but i think it needed to bolt up or weld it in diferently

[Rendon LX-i]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=962261&postcount=29

This is all i did and never had a problem.

Thanks to Jfern once again

[import racer]

Can't find the jug he's talking about,would something else do.

[stat1K]

I dont think i've ever heard of this. Care to elaborate?

i'll tell him you want some detail and see what he says, haven't talked to him in a bit but i'm going to call him in the next few days and he how he's been.

to my recollection it was pretty straight forward, just had to change one of the braces on the rear subframe so that it would mount properly (ie: weld a new bracket/piece to hold the rack because of the different size) it's not a bolt in procedure if i recall. I wasn't there when he did it but i have driven the car and can say that it's a lot better than when my dad's 2g power steering pump quit working. that thing was impossible to turn, but with the 2g manual rack in the 3g it was just like driving my civic with a manual rack.

[LX-incredible]

I dont think i've ever heard of this. Care to elaborate?

I wound up extending the threaded portion of the accord tie rod ends 1" on each side. The nissan are the correct thread and length, but the stud taper is quite different. If you rebuild the rack with 84-87 civic tie rods you should get away without welding extensions as they are a little over 3/4" longer. Another good possibility might be honda fit tie rod ends, but I'm not 100% positive the threading and taper is the same...

Either way, you will need to remove the power brackets from the 3g crossmember, and weld in the 2g manual brackets. It's a lot of work, but worth the effort IMO.

I also have a bolt on plate designed to properly convert the power rack. It bolts in place of the valve body and loops, seals, and demobilizes the offset pinion holder. No cutting and teeing off lines and no slop.

[turabaka]

I wound up extending the threaded portion of the accord tie rod ends 1" on each side. The nissan are the correct thread and length, but the stud taper is quite different. If you rebuild the rack with 84-87 civic tie rods you should get away without welding extensions as they are a little over 3/4" longer. Another good possibility might be honda fit tie rod ends, but I'm not 100% positive the threading and taper is the same...

Either way, you will need to remove the power brackets from the 3g crossmember, and weld in the 2g manual brackets. It's a lot of work, but worth the effort IMO.

I also have a bolt on plate designed to properly convert the power rack. It bolts in place of the valve body and loops, seals, and demobilizes the offset pinion holder. No cutting and teeing off lines and no slop.

What would it take to get one of those plates from you?