alright guys, im thinkin its swappin time...

[itzdave]

im sure a few of you may know, im leaving for basic training in about 10 days, and when i get back, ill have some extra money. then i go to job school, and ill have even more money. im really thinkin about doin some kind of power goodies, but i dont really wanna have to buy another car as a dd so id liek to keep the car drivable. here are my ideas.
right now i got a 87 lx(carbed) with 5spd(head is built+ p&p, delta 272, full exhaust...), im not too happy with my new(used jy) tranny that i recently got and im having carb issues. but id love to work my way up to a B20FI-turbo. heres what im thinkin...

start with a weber 38 conv
buy a B20 and start to build it up a lil.
install B20 and put the weber 38 on it. (keep it carbed for a lil while)
while im carbed, start doin all the stuff to make it FI and OBD-1.
make the B20 FI
TURBO THAT BIOTCH!!!

any ideas, thoughts, comments...?

[russiankid]

I would say it would be easier to keep the B20 EFI and do the EFI swap while you are swapping the engine. It will make work easier later on because the engine will be out of the way for wiring,etc..

[itzdave]

yea, that would prolly be easier, but like i said, i gotta be able to drive the car everyday. wouldnt it be quicker to have the motor in there already, get all the stuff hooked up, then just swap intakes and get it all plugged in. (??)

[russiankid]

yea, that would prolly be easier, but like i said, i gotta be able to drive the car everyday. wouldnt it be quicker to have the motor in there already, get all the stuff hooked up, then just swap intakes and get it all plugged in. (??)

Well, you could do the engine bay wiring while the engine is out. Then later on do the interior wiring and then finally swap the intake manifolds and the fuel tank.

[labeledsk8r]

you make it sound to easy lol, a FI swap alone i would set a week up for the car to be down... engine swaping add another day or 2.... im guessing your going obd-1 aswell to controel your turbo idea... theres another day or 2 of screwing with wires (if you have it pre wired out of the car before), you might be able to get it done in time... but your going to be rushing yourself becuse you know you will need the car... and when you rush.. mistakes happen , its the entire reason im buying a second car before i get an accord to turbo... down time can come up at anytime...

[86AccordLxi]

I was entirely resistant to the idea of buying a daily driver before undertaking my turbo project, but in the end, I had no other choice. BUY a daily driver before you get crazy on swaps/turbos etc.

Alex

[itzdave]

well, thanks for all the advice so far. yea i know its not gunna be as easy as you may think im making it sound. but im gunna try to have everything done as much as i can before putting it into the car (wires, etc). and yea im plannin on obd1 for the turbo. im plannin on taking at least about a year or so (from now) to do all the stuff. the car is already gutted out (weight reduction) so im hopin that will make it a lil easier too. when im in basic training im gunna start on my shoppin list of all the stuff ill need to do it. im gettin some rims while im in basic too!!!
and about the dd, ill be living on base, so i wont need to go very far, and i was acually thinkin about one of those little scooters that look like Vespa's or whatever. i know id look funny drivin it, but hey, gas prices, short commutes, itd prolly be fun to putt around town in.

[86AccordLxi]

You say that you'll have everything done beforehand, but as everyone who's ever undertaken a big project will tell you, there are certain things you won't have accounted for. Vespa dd sounds just fine.

Alex

[knarg]

I was entirely resistant to the idea of buying a daily driver before undertaking my turbo project, but in the end, I had no other choice. BUY a daily driver before you get crazy on swaps/turbos etc.

Alex

word, unless you don't need to be driving around town e.g. living in a metro area

[2oodoor]

You say that you'll have everything done beforehand, but as everyone who's ever undertaken a big project will tell you, there are certain things you won't have accounted for. Vespa dd sounds just fine.

Alex

I second that motion

Repair work or typical R&R can go smoothly, that is how techs make money in this business. But any design build work like custom swaps, or installs, always count on some unexpected setback along the way. They show that kind of thing on TV, and the drama (OCC or Boyd Cottington Hot Rods) of the time constraints and setbacks makes good TV, this is why they do it:wave:

[snoopyloopy]

i think you forgot one thing: buy an lx-i. it'll make b20a swap quite a bit easier and the obd1 swap will be easier as well. the efi swap is quite a major undertaking and these cars are too cheap now to spend time dicking around with swapping. and considering that if you do the efi swap, you might as well buy a whole lx-i to begin with so you don't get raped with jy prices on parts, you might as well find one that's in decent condition and just build it up instead. other than that, sounds good.

[AccordB20A]

all i can say is that i hope you are rich....

[2oodoor]

i think you forgot one thing: buy an lx-i. it'll make b20a swap quite a bit easier and the obd1 swap will be easier as well. the efi swap is quite a major undertaking and these cars are too cheap now to spend time dicking around with swapping. and considering that if you do the efi swap, you might as well buy a whole lx-i to begin with so you don't get raped with jy prices on parts, you might as well find one that's in decent condition and just build it up instead. other than that, sounds good.
nothing worse than a dreamer of concept advising another ...
who the F*&% ever got raped at the JY?
LxI Obd1 What the F*&^%$ are yoiu talking about ??? you dont need any of that shit unless you are going turbo or sc. All of you guys doing those mods are dreaming your ass willy wonka bs .
If you are carbed, Lx Dx, move on up to real racing and get a serious flowing head and carb set up, with electronic timing control CFI and some hot ign. w/exhaust That is the way we did it before electronic fuel injection showed up. Take a regualr kawasaki , ford, triumph, cosworth.whatever...engine, flowbench the shit outta the head, then get it fired up, and push some fuel through it.You have a killer four banger. same with any Im venting so Snoopyloopy dont take it personal, I am so Friggin tired of the same damn post over and over, and still nobody is listeing to the answers. Nobody can friggin do a search and find the info, like thier car is any friggin different than anybody elses. You have to make the flow, you have to get it out, you have to move it down the friggen road.. We are so mixed up in the 3rd gen Accords, we have two totally different worlds of performance capabilty.. we have the new wave F&F electronic engine controls , turbo blown on a forklift motor, and then we have the carb crowd,(yay) that make raw busting power from serious machined power, NA., then we have,"lets swap another POS motor on there that can make it easy power, yo rice dog bitch.... so itsdave... buy a dd car or make your Accord a dd and get a ready capable car to play with.

[labeledsk8r]

nothing worse than a dreamer of concept advising another ...
who the F*&% ever got raped at the JY?
LxI Obd1 What the F*&^%$ are yoiu talking about ??? you dont need any of that shit unless you are going turbo or sc. All of you guys doing those mods are dreaming your ass willy wonka bs .
If you are carbed, Lx Dx, move on up to real racing and get a serious flowing head and carb set up, with electronic timing control CFI and some hot ign. w/exhaust That is the way we did it before electronic fuel injection showed up. Take a regualr kawasaki , ford, triumph, cosworth.whatever...engine, flowbench the shit outta the head, then get it fired up, and push some fuel through it.You have a killer four banger. same with any Im venting so Snoopyloopy dont take it personal, I am so Friggin tired of the same damn post over and over, and still nobody is listeing to the answers. Nobody can friggin do a search and find the info, like thier car is any friggin different than anybody elses. You have to make the flow, you have to get it out, you have to move it down the friggen road.. We are so mixed up in the 3rd gen Accords, we have two totally different worlds of performance capabilty.. we have the new wave F&F electronic engine controls , turbo blown on a forklift motor, and then we have the carb crowd,(yay) that make raw busting power from serious machined power, NA., then we have,"lets swap another POS motor on there that can make it easy power, yo rice dog bitch.... so itsdave... buy a dd car or make your Accord a dd and get a ready capable car to play with.



um... he is going turbo... that was one of the main things on his list... includeing a B20 swap.... thus FI swap and obd-1 are needed (or another form of stand alone controle), easy power is easy power.... its not really the same post over and over either, i tuned a carb accord for well over a year... and it has its limitations....why pay 4 grand on a carb N/A build that makes mayby 140 whp... when you can put 4 grand in a FI car and have a 250+ whp turbo setup... the dude wants a B20 and he wants turbo... were just stateing what he needs to get to it

[MessyHonda]

the a20 needs a better flowing head.....i got to say i do love my obd1 swap....i already posted up the charts on how it improved my torque and hp curve

[2oodoor]

um... he is going turbo... that was one of the main things on his list... includeing a B20 swap.... thus FI swap and obd-1 are needed (or another form of stand alone controle), easy power is easy power.... its not really the same post over and over either, i tuned a carb accord for well over a year... and it has its limitations....why pay 4 grand on a carb N/A build that makes mayby 140 whp... when you can put 4 grand in a FI car and have a 250+ whp turbo setup... the dude wants a B20 and he wants turbo... were just stateing what he needs to get to it

140 hp,, p l e a se...4 grand in a NA carb motor....again..numbers are off.. you can do way better than that.

you are correct in that the turbo is the best route if you are already working with an LXi...he does not have one. :)

[LiTtLe xOx BitT]

Where are you going to source the B20 engine and tranny from, and also all the parts? I agree with the other guys though, no matter what you do it will make things 10x easier and cheaper if you just start out with a LX-i or SE-i. How much power are you looking for? Theres really not too much that you cant get with a turbo A20 unless you want to use this car to enter into some type of serious drag racing and not drive this car on the street. If you want to keep the car N/A and do a bunch of bolt-ons for a good amount of horsepower the go ahead and look into the B20 swap, but remember your probably talking about a JDM B20 so you will need to source all the parts from overseas and pay freight shipping which will be very expensive, then you will need to rebuild the motor and tranny. If your going to go turbo I would suggest just keeping the A20, its a very strong motor and if built right can handel a lot of power. If your going to make this a DD you cant have too much power or it will be very hard to drive on the road so i wouldnt reccommend trying to get more then 250-300HP from either motor for road use. So the thing is you can either spend all that money and get a B20 and run like 12 pounds of boost and make around 250HP or you can build up your A20 for probably half the price and run 15 pounds of boost and make 250HP (numbers arent exact, just there for a referance and to show my point of view).

[itzdave]

nothing worse than a dreamer of concept advising another ...
who the F*&% ever got raped at the JY?
LxI Obd1 What the F*&^%$ are yoiu talking about ??? you dont need any of that shit unless you are going turbo or sc. All of you guys doing those mods are dreaming your ass willy wonka bs .
If you are carbed, Lx Dx, move on up to real racing and get a serious flowing head and carb set up, with electronic timing control CFI and some hot ign. w/exhaust That is the way we did it before electronic fuel injection showed up. Take a regualr kawasaki , ford, triumph, cosworth.whatever...engine, flowbench the shit outta the head, then get it fired up, and push some fuel through it.You have a killer four banger. same with any Im venting so Snoopyloopy dont take it personal, I am so Friggin tired of the same damn post over and over, and still nobody is listeing to the answers. Nobody can friggin do a search and find the info, like thier car is any friggin different than anybody elses. You have to make the flow, you have to get it out, you have to move it down the friggen road.. We are so mixed up in the 3rd gen Accords, we have two totally different worlds of performance capabilty.. we have the new wave F&F electronic engine controls , turbo blown on a forklift motor, and then we have the carb crowd,(yay) that make raw busting power from serious machined power, NA., then we have,"lets swap another POS motor on there that can make it easy power, yo rice dog bitch.... so itsdave... buy a dd car or make your Accord a dd and get a ready capable car to play with.

damn... i totally wasnt planning on getting my ass chewed out or anything... i know how to use the search button btw, and i have been doin a lot of searching. i wasnt planning on a rediculous amount of power, 250ish. ive already got a built head, rebuilt motor .020 over, full exhaust. im not tryin to be a friggin ricer or anyhting??? i just think that im about to have the A20 to its max, with the exception of nitrous. and im gunna have a bit of extra money to spend so yea, i figured i could start buying all the stuff to do the swap. i know this isnt somethin that can be done in a month, it will take quite a bit of time. im not askin anybody 'TELL ME HOW TO DO THIS', all i asked was if my plan would work, if i had the right idea. ok? is that cool? did i offend anybody else? :bow: please forgive me everyone...:bow:

[2oodoor]

I publicly apologize for the rip, itzdave. It was not meant to be directed to you or snoopy.
If I lost my point in the fuss, this is it: There will always be the carb vs. EFI debate as to which one has the most power potential. Threre have been A20 builds, and many other four cyl OHC builds that were NA and carbed, they were done by custom machine work and big carbs= 200 plus HP even with smaller displacement than 2.0 liters.

Same for EFI turbo or supercharged but of course we already know that, there are even OEM ready to go versions of those.

I am always wishing to recruit more carb and NA projects around here.:) I like the old school, make it happen way of doing things. A little less than I like the instant gratification of the modern tuner mindset. No offense to the turbo guys and Obd1 conversions... those guys know what they are doing and have great information on threads here. Either way you go about it is fine IMO, I just get rilled up when somebody says you shoulda got a LXi.. blah blah.. go stuff it I say.. lol .. oops
You have an intreguing idea, but it will be way impractical going about it the way you described. All that aside I would love to see a DOHC dual weber powered Accord:)

[itzdave]

I publicly apologize for the rip, itzdave. It was not meant to be directed to you or snoopy.
If I lost my point in the fuss, this is it: There will always be the carb vs. EFI debate as to which one has the most power potential. Threre have been A20 builds, and many other four cyl OHC builds that were NA and carbed, they were done by custom machine work and big carbs= 200 plus HP even with smaller displacement than 2.0 liters.

Same for EFI turbo or supercharged but of course we already know that, there are even OEM ready to go versions of those.

I am always wishing to recruit more carb and NA projects around here.:) I like the old school, make it happen way of doing things. A little less than I like the instant gratification of the modern tuner mindset. No offense to the turbo guys and Obd1 conversions... those guys know what they are doing and have great information on threads here. Either way you go about it is fine IMO, I just get rilled up when somebody says you shoulda got a LXi.. blah blah.. go stuff it I say.. lol .. oops
You have an intreguing idea, but it will be way impractical going about it the way you described. All that aside I would love to see a DOHC dual weber powered Accord:)

:cheers: i know what ya mean, i grew up around old muscle cars, and ive always had a kinda hot rod mentality. knowing know that it will prolly be way too time consuming for the efi/obd1 stuff. i think ill prolly just plan on a B20 with the weber. one of the things ive always liked about my car is that it IS carbed. however, when i got my car it hadnt ran in over 4 years, and it was an electrical nightmare, most of witch i still havent even sorted out yet. i have the sstock carb, no black box, but 'something' keeps causing it to mess up, its not the carbs fault. it has to do with the wiring to it or something- choke stuff. im definately gunna get the weber while im in basic traning, and a new front end kit. the carb is just giving me troubles and i want to be done with it. so i think the best option for me would be to just throw the weber on. and then over time..... get a B20, rebuild it, bore it, stroke it (if possible) do some mega head work, intake work, etc... then throw it in. but i would just LOOOOVE to go turbo some day, and last time i was searchin, i dont remember finding any blow-thru set ups for us. hince the efi/obd1 conv.

[snoopyloopy]

i wasn't saying he HAS to have lxi. i've seen what rjudgey has done with carbs and an a20. i know what can be done. i was simply saying that if he plans to do efi swap and obd1 and all that jazz, it's 10x easier on yourself and your wallet at this point to just find an lxi instead of buy parts for a conversion. these cars are extremely cheap now. i paid more for the computer i'm using than i did for my 3g, and my 3g is in decent condition. and also, buying another lxi would allow him to devote time to actually building the car without putting downtime on his dd.

[LiTtLe xOx BitT]

:cheers: i know what ya mean, i grew up around old muscle cars, and ive always had a kinda hot rod mentality. knowing know that it will prolly be way too time consuming for the efi/obd1 stuff. i think ill prolly just plan on a B20 with the weber. one of the things ive always liked about my car is that it IS carbed. however, when i got my car it hadnt ran in over 4 years, and it was an electrical nightmare, most of witch i still havent even sorted out yet. i have the sstock carb, no black box, but 'something' keeps causing it to mess up, its not the carbs fault. it has to do with the wiring to it or something- choke stuff. im definately gunna get the weber while im in basic traning, and a new front end kit. the carb is just giving me troubles and i want to be done with it. so i think the best option for me would be to just throw the weber on. and then over time..... get a B20, rebuild it, bore it, stroke it (if possible) do some mega head work, intake work, etc... then throw it in. but i would just LOOOOVE to go turbo some day, and last time i was searchin, i dont remember finding any blow-thru set ups for us. hince the efi/obd1 conv.

In all reality with the amount of money your going to spend on a N/A B20 build and get 170HP you can spend on a A20 turbo build and get even more power. Just get an LX-i with a blown motor for like $300-$500 and swap in the motor from your current car minus the intake manifold. you have a carb motor so you have the lower compression pistions which is good for the turbo, all you would need to do is put in some ARP headstuds and the LX-i intake manifold, fuel rail and injectors and you have a running LX-i with a rebuilt motor and you have a great base for a turbo project plus a parts car. Add about $2000-$2500 for all the turbo parts, electronics to control it, fuel system upgrades and a stronger clutch setup and your set.

[itzdave]

umm... im not getting an lxi, then i would have to change over ALL the parts from this car and i dont want to, i think im just gunna go carbed on a B20.

[ChaseR]

Congrats on Basic Training, What Branch? And where are you going?

[itzdave]

Congrats on Basic Training, What Branch? And where are you going?

thanks:cheers::wave: NAVY, chicago for basic (its gonna be cooold), job school will prolly be in pensacola, fla, or san diego. dunno where ill be stationed but im hopin for san diego or key west. Japan would be BADASS but i dont think its gunna happen.

[ChaseR]

^ cool man, don't know anything about being a squid so I have no advice for you. Good luck with your career!

[LiTtLe xOx BitT]

umm... im not getting an lxi, then i would have to change over ALL the parts from this car and i dont want to, i think im just gunna go carbed on a B20.

Are you talking about the JDM B20?? If so have you researched where to get it and how much it will cost for parts and shipping, and the the cost or rebuilding the motor and tranny? You said you rebuilt your A20 and had headwork done, that would be a waste let that go.

[itzdave]

Are you talking about the JDM B20?? If so have you researched where to get it and how much it will cost for parts and shipping, and the the cost or rebuilding the motor and tranny? You said you rebuilt your A20 and had headwork done, that would be a waste let that go.

yea ive done some searchin, i know that the motor and tranny will cost about a grand, and fabbing the mounts and stuff, maybe 500(?) im lookin at about 2 grand in all. then again, i might just put the money in to somethin else, like a paint job, but i love that my car is soo damn ugly. at night time my car is like a black abyss, its just sooo black. so, i dunno for sure yet, but im definately startin with a weber 38 (bro is ordering it and front end kit while im in basic).

[itzdave]

^ cool man, don't know anything about being a squid so I have no advice for you. Good luck with your career!

thanks dogg:wave::cheers:

[snoopyloopy]

yea ive done some searchin, i know that the motor and tranny will cost about a grand, and fabbing the mounts and stuff, maybe 500(?) im lookin at about 2 grand in all. then again, i might just put the money in to somethin else, like a paint job, but i love that my car is soo damn ugly. at night time my car is like a black abyss, its just sooo black. so, i dunno for sure yet, but im definately startin with a weber 38 (bro is ordering it and front end kit while im in basic).
there are no mounts to fab. it mounts up to the stock a-series mounts. the only one that doesn't is the rear tranny mount. just make sure that wherever you get your engine, they grab that mount as well. everything else, even accessories and shift linkages, will bolt over from the a20. only other thing you would need are the axles, but there's a thread around here on how to get around that issue as well.

[itzdave]

there are no mounts to fab. it mounts up to the stock a-series mounts. the only one that doesn't is the rear tranny mount. just make sure that wherever you get your engine, they grab that mount as well. everything else, even accessories and shift linkages, will bolt over from the a20. only other thing you would need are the axles, but there's a thread around here on how to get around that issue as well.

sweet, thanks! anybody got a link for that? im too drunk to search...:cheers::cheers:

[LiTtLe xOx BitT]

Just make sure you get the right B20, thats all.

[itzdave]

Just make sure you get the right B20, thats all.

yea i know. there is a shop on the southside that will sell it to me, low miles, i checked with them about a year ago. but i dont remember what the price was. ill have to remember to tell him about the rear mount too.

[MessyHonda]

hope you dont get dooped into getting a USDM b20 for the 3rd gen prelude because it wont fit

[itzdave]

hope you dont get dooped into getting a USDM b20 for the 3rd gen prelude because it wont fit

yea, i already clairified that with the shop. thnx for lookin out.:cheers:

[LiTtLe xOx BitT]

yea i know. there is a shop on the southside that will sell it to me, low miles, i checked with them about a year ago. but i dont remember what the price was. ill have to remember to tell him about the rear mount too.

You might want to do a search and find out what marks the JDM B20 has so that you can check the motor before trying to put the prelude one in, i've seen that happen a few times here where people get the wrong motor. It just seems weird that a shop in the middle of the US would just happen to have a JDM B20 motor and tranny, unless they deal specifically with those kinds of things.

[snoopyloopy]

good luck on the b20a. if at all possible, visit the shop and verify that it's the right one before you buy it.

[itzdave]

yea, i went there and SPECIFIED witch one it was. it was about the same time adams accord was in "HONDA TUNING" and it was on the shelf and i said -'THIS ONE!' and he had a couple sheets of pages that showed all of the JDM cars, the motors, years, and what they can (easily) swap in to. so i know it should be the right one, at least they wont mess up on ordering it. now whoever they get it from may be another story... but they've been doin this stuff for a while, so im sure it ok.
www.alternativemotorsports.com --- here's the site, but its kinda new so its not totally set up yet (the site that is)

[2oodoor]

tread carefully brother
I think you will be happy with your current plans for the A20 though, you may change your mind by after then.
keep the weight down in your car too, it goes much better unloaded

[itzdave]

tread carefully brother
I think you will be happy with your current plans for the A20 though, you may change your mind by after then.
keep the weight down in your car too, it goes much better unloaded

all i have is a dash, 2 front seats, center console. no carpet, back seat. nothin in trunk, no door panels, no glovebox(i dont wear gloves). :wave:

[David Caldwell]

i am new to the site and have some questions i am wanting to go b18a1 i have 89 accord will the b18 from the integra work an how hard would it be to put it in the accord if anyone can help please do so

[itzdave]

ummm... i just graduated boot camp YAY!!! GO ME!!!

[2drSE-i]

welcome back dude! you back home?

[itzdave]

naw, still in chicago. gunna be here for about another 2 or 3 months for job school, aviation electrical, then home for a couple weeks, then goin to wherever im goin...

[2drSE-i]

cool cool.

So, did they whoop your ass? haha

[itzdave]

not so much, i acually got a lil fat from eatin so damn much tho. i had to run a bunch, but no liftin weights or anything. but i buffed up a lil from doin a ton of push ups. plus, we were in an integrated (male/female) division, so they didnt whoop us too hard cuz the girls cant keep up...

[2oodoor]

Hey... it's dave !

I hope all is well, kudos

[MessyHonda]

good stuff....nice to have you back

[2drSE-i]

damn...the army went soft on us. haha J/P man