new engine

[zigzag]

well after about a month and a half of no internet i come back and see the forum with new new shiny look.... nice :P

1988 Honda Accord LX

now to the real topic here.... i want to replace my engine.... i want a newer Honda v-tech engine at around 2.5-2.8 liters. i know ill have to switch over from carb to fuel injection.... but im wondering if it will fit.... well i know it will fit under the hood.... but I'm worried about the transmission and cv joints.... and the motor mounts as well. I'm sure it is possible to make it work, but has anyone else tried it?

with this new engine ill have the power i want and the better MPG I'm looking for.... very interested in this idea, please someone get back to me on this.... i would love to know whats all involved. i have a mechanic with and engine hoist willing to help me as well.

[2drSE-i]

well after about a month and a half of no internet i come back and see the forum with new new shiny look.... nice :P

1988 Honda Accord LX

now to the real topic here.... i want to replace my engine.... i want a newer Honda v-tech engine at around 2.5-2.8 liters. i know ill have to switch over from carb to fuel injection.... but im wondering if it will fit.... well i know it will fit under the hood.... but I'm worried about the transmission and cv joints.... and the motor mounts as well. I'm sure it is possible to make it work, but has anyone else tried it?

with this new engine ill have the power i want and the better MPG I'm looking for.... very interested in this idea, please someone get back to me on this.... i would love to know whats all involved. i have a mechanic with and engine hoist willing to help me as well.

welcome back to the site man!

Fuel injection is key. Mounts will have to be custom made, axles and cv joints will have to be custom made (or hybrids, composed of mismatched parts) and the transmission must be from the engine it came from.

Now, the only honda engine that comes anywhere close to the 2.5 range is the K24, and it is 2.4L, and will be a bitch and a half to fit in our engine bay. The best of luck to you!

[LX-incredible]

i want a newer Honda v-tech engine at around 2.5-2.8 liters. This is how I know this will never happen.

[zigzag]

welcome back to the site man!

Fuel injection is key. Mounts will have to be custom made, axles and cv joints will have to be custom made (or hybrids, composed of mismatched parts) and the transmission must be from the engine it came from.

Now, the only honda engine that comes anywhere close to the 2.5 range is the K24, and it is 2.4L, and will be a bitch and a half to fit in our engine bay. The best of luck to you!

thanks man :D

i see.... so your saying the 2.5-2.8L vtech engine wouldnt fit in my honda? i wouldnt see why not imo.... i would have to find a wrecked honda in a junk yard and find out.... though the front end of some of these hondas are smaller than mine it seems.

[zigzag]

This is how I know this will never happen.

what do you mean? could you be more specific.... sorry im new to all of this.

ok then what about a 2.0L i-VTEC R20A1 engine? would that fit in place of my old 2.0L engine?

[cygnus x-1]

well after about a month and a half of no internet i come back and see the forum with new new shiny look.... nice :P

1988 Honda Accord LX

now to the real topic here.... i want to replace my engine.... i want a newer Honda v-tech engine at around 2.5-2.8 liters. i know ill have to switch over from carb to fuel injection.... but im wondering if it will fit.... well i know it will fit under the hood.... but I'm worried about the transmission and cv joints.... and the motor mounts as well. I'm sure it is possible to make it work, but has anyone else tried it?

with this new engine ill have the power i want and the better MPG I'm looking for.... very interested in this idea, please someone get back to me on this.... i would love to know whats all involved. i have a mechanic with and engine hoist willing to help me as well.


A whole lot is involved. First it would have to physically fit. Then you have to figure out how to mount it which will be totally custom. The axles will have to be custom. The suspension may need upgrading if it's a heavier engine. The clutch will likely be hydraulic instead of cable so that will have to be figured out. The fuel system will have to be entirely replaced, new pump, new lines, new or modified tank. You need to get the computer and all the wiring harnesses with the new engine. And you have to figure out how to make all this work with your existing gauges.

Oh, and do you have vehicle inspections in your state?

By the time you get all that done you could have just bough a newer car and been done with it. The most effective way to make your Accord faster is to put a turbo on it. But even that isn't trivial or especially cheap.

C|

[zigzag]

A whole lot is involved. First it would have to physically fit. Then you have to figure out how to mount it which will be totally custom. The axles will have to be custom. The suspension may need upgrading if it's a heavier engine. The clutch will likely be hydraulic instead of cable so that will have to be figured out. The fuel system will have to be entirely replaced, new pump, new lines, new or modified tank. You need to get the computer and all the wiring harnesses with the new engine. And you have to figure out how to make all this work with your existing gauges.

Oh, and do you have vehicle inspections in your state?

By the time you get all that done you could have just bough a newer car and been done with it. The most effective way to make your Accord faster is to put a turbo on it. But even that isn't trivial or especially cheap.

C|

its an automatic for one.... and i was considering on looking around for a rear end totaled honda stream or cvr and just take what i need from that. as for buying a new car.... sound cool, but i love my 88 accord LX too much.... if i had my way i would keep it forever.

[2drSE-i]

what do you mean? could you be more specific.... sorry im new to all of this.

ok then what about a 2.0L i-VTEC R20A1 engine? would that fit in place of my old 2.0L engine?


never even heard of an R series...maybe im nuts?



oh ok i just looked it up, its in 2006+civics (non si)


i just dont know if it will fit in our frame....

[2drSE-i]

its an automatic for one.... and i was considering on looking around for a rear end totaled honda stream or cvr and just take what i need from that. as for buying a new car.... sound cool, but i love my 88 accord LX too much.... if i had my way i would keep it forever.

ok what i think you may be missing here is that 75% of honda transmissions arent interchangeable.......especially ours. In an engine swap in these cars, you WILL be changing transmissions.

[zigzag]

i know, thats why im trying to find a honda with the same size front end. im fully aware about the trani, thats why im going to look for a rear end totaled honda with the engine and parts i need to swap.... i know all mounts will have to be custom.... just wasn't too sure about the cv joints. the computer will be with the totaled car.... it would be like complete swap. i plan on changing over to fuel injection sometime soon. if i can spend 6-8000$ to make my car better and more fuel efficient vs. 24,000$ for a new car then i think its worth the trouble.

sorry if i sound mechanically stupid.... im trying to learn as i go.

[MessyHonda]

how much money and skills do you have? no one will be doing any engine swap unless they have a engine ready to go and droping it in to mock it for custom mounts.

[zigzag]

how much money and skills do you have? no one will be doing any engine swap unless they have a engine ready to go and droping it in to mock it for custom mounts.

be hard to do a swap with no engine at hand....i will have all parts on hand before attempting to do anything.... that if i can find the totaled car i need cheap.i will be taking measurements under the hood to make sure i have the room.everything will be done at home with a friend of mine who is a mechanic and has an engine hoist.

i wouldn't think swapping 2.0L with another 2.0L will be much of a weight difference. as for the motor mounts.... well i will have to figure that one out before hand. how many mounts do you think there are?

[forrest89sei]

It's going to take ALOT of work and $$

People have swaped in H22's, But not and K or R Series, From what everyone has gathered, the Decks are too tall on the K and R motors, If you want a newer 2.0L in there, get what you need for a B16/B18 Swap and do a CR-Vtec Swap, the B20Z, otherwise If you have the skills and or the money to make a K work, Good Luck :rockon:

Personally I wouldn't do a R vs a K, R's are more built for Economy, they have plastic intake mani's and other Not Proformence Friendly things

[zigzag]

well what engine would you guys choose to swap? im looking for about around 140hp and with about 27/34-37 city/hw miles.

the engine in my car is still good, but scares me how slow it can be in some situations. anything helps please let me know.

[forrest89sei]

well what engine would you guys choose to swap? im looking for about around 140hp and with about 27/34-37 city/hw miles.

the engine in my car is still good, but scares me how slow it can be in some situations. anything helps please let me know.

Well if your looking for MPG, your not going to get it with a DOHC Swap, but in general If I did a Swap it would be a B18

[zigzag]

Well if your looking for MPG, your not going to get it with a DOHC Swap, but in general If I did a Swap it would be a B18

no kidding.... the B18C looks great.

* VTEC
* Found in:
o JDM Honda Integra SiR-G
* Power:
* 185 hp (138 kW) @ 7,600 rpm
* Rev-limit: 8,200 rpm
* 130 ft·lbf (180 N·m) @ 6,200 rpm
* Transmission Type: 4-speed auto tranny or 5-speed manual tranny with optional LSD
* Displacement: 1797 cc
* Compression: 10.6:1
* Bore: 81 mm (3.189")
* Stroke: 87.2 mm (3.433")
* Rod Length: 137.9 mm (5.429")
* Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.58
* Transmission: S80, Y80, S80 w/LSD, Y80 w/LSD

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://passwordjdm.com/images/Products/B18C%2520SiR-G%2520GSR%2520OBD1%2520Complete%2520Motor%2520Swap %2520(NON-LSD)%2520Large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://passwordjdm.com/B18C-SiR-GGSR-OBD1-Complete-Motor-Swap-NON-LSD-P1576C201.aspx&h=480&w=640&sz=141&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=z4VrXalQyqzGJM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJDM%2BHonda%2BIntegra%2BSiR-G%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
a link to buy it from $3000 for complete swap....

about what im looking for right there.... but im unsure of the MPG. from what i read maybe 19 mpg tops. any other engine that gives good decent power with 30 mpg?

ill be doing more research on this

[forrest89sei]

no kidding.... the B18C looks great.

* VTEC
* Found in:
o JDM Honda Integra SiR-G
* Power:
* 185 hp (138 kW) @ 7,600 rpm
* Rev-limit: 8,200 rpm
* 130 ft·lbf (180 N·m) @ 6,200 rpm
* Transmission Type: 4-speed auto tranny or 5-speed manual tranny with optional LSD
* Displacement: 1797 cc
* Compression: 10.6:1
* Bore: 81 mm (3.189")
* Stroke: 87.2 mm (3.433")
* Rod Length: 137.9 mm (5.429")
* Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.58
* Transmission: S80, Y80, S80 w/LSD, Y80 w/LSD

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://passwordjdm.com/images/Products/B18C%2520SiR-G%2520GSR%2520OBD1%2520Complete%2520Motor%2520Swap %2520(NON-LSD)%2520Large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://passwordjdm.com/B18C-SiR-GGSR-OBD1-Complete-Motor-Swap-NON-LSD-P1576C201.aspx&h=480&w=640&sz=141&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=z4VrXalQyqzGJM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJDM%2BHonda%2BIntegra%2BSiR-G%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://passwordjdm.com/images/Products/B18C%2520SiR-G%2520GSR%2520OBD1%2520Complete%2520Motor%2520Swap %2520%28NON-LSD%29%2520Large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://passwordjdm.com/B18C-SiR-GGSR-OBD1-Complete-Motor-Swap-NON-LSD-P1576C201.aspx&h=480&w=640&sz=141&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=z4VrXalQyqzGJM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJDM%2BHonda%2BIntegra%2BSiR-G%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)
a link to buy it from $3000 for complete swap....

about what im looking for right there.... but im unsure of the MPG. from what i read maybe 19 mpg tops. any other engine that gives good decent power with 30 mpg?

ill be doing more research on this

Your not really going to find a good MPG Swap, If you can find one, the B20A Which came in our Accords and 84-87 Preludes is rated at 160HP (85-87 Models) and 145HP (88-89 Models)

This Engine puts out some nice power and gets around 20-25 ish from what i hear, the MPG ratings on the JDM Honda brochures show they get better mileage then the SOHC models, Also there Bolt in.

So for POWER & Aftermarket, B18C is where it's At
A harder to find But I think what would be best suited to you would be the JDM B20A motor, Found in 1985-1989 Accords (3rd Gen) and 1984-1987 Honda Preludes (2nd Gen)

[MessyHonda]

yeah our 2.0l engine is only rated at 120hp and the acura 90-99 b18 is rated for like 140hp but if you really want a nice engine you will need to rebuild a b18 bottom with a Vtec head just like legend master...his engine is quick. also the dohc engines have power till around 8k rpm were as our cars only go up to like 6.5k rpm

[Civic Accord Honda]

i have thout about doing a B16 in the past lol

[zigzag]

Your not really going to find a good MPG Swap, If you can find one, the B20A Which came in our Accords and 84-87 Preludes is rated at 160HP (85-87 Models) and 145HP (88-89 Models)

This Engine puts out some nice power and gets around 20-25 ish from what i hear, the MPG ratings on the JDM Honda brochures show they get better mileage then the SOHC models, Also there Bolt in.

So for POWER & Aftermarket, B18C is where it's At
A harder to find But I think what would be best suited to you would be the JDM B20A motor, Found in 1985-1989 Accords (3rd Gen) and 1984-1987 Honda Preludes (2nd Gen)


the B20A looks good, but im not sure where to look XD ill have to google it up and see what i can find.

the only B20 is can find is the B20B long block.... the rest are B16 or B18 modles.

i found 88-91 Prelude, FI, DOHC, 16 Valve B20A5 engine.... but doesnt the prelude engine tilt twards the firewall? that would cause a problem with oil and stuff. $595 though not bad.

[cubert]

the B20A looks good, but im not sure where to look XD ill have to google it up and see what i can find.

the only B20 is can find is the B20B long block.... the rest are B16 or B18 modles.

i found 88-91 Prelude, FI, DOHC, 16 Valve B20A5 engine.... but doesnt the prelude engine tilt twards the firewall? that would cause a problem with oil and stuff. $595 though not bad.


the 88-91 prelude engine youre looking at wont fit....


or i should say wont fit easy....but its not even worth putting it in...

[zigzag]

the 88-91 prelude engine youre looking at wont fit....


or i should say wont fit easy....but its not even worth putting it in...

alright wasnt planning on investing in it anyways.... looks like i wont get my power and mpg after all.... anyone know where to find mpg and specs on all the B18 models?

[2ndGenGuy]

A big juicy H23 non-vtec with DCOEs would be tasty.

[Vanilla Sky]

With that low of a power goal , you can go EFI with an a20 and be happy with a high-spec rebuild.

[zigzag]

With that low of a power goal , you can go EFI with an a20 and be happy with a high-spec rebuild.

hmmm.... explain please... whats EFI and how would i go about a high-spec rebuild? i mean ill be satisfied with 145-150hp ifi can keep the same mpg or better.... anything but the horrible 90hp, it will kill me one day XD lol

also i love your avatar :P ed is the best.

[2drSE-i]

hmmm.... explain please... whats EFI and how would i go about a high-spec rebuild? .

::cough:: :wave:


ok...EFI is Electronic Fuel Injection...a High spec rebuild is a high performance rebuild....

[2oodoor]

EFI an acronym for "Enjoy a Fabulous Ion (saturn)"

Acroynm is a "term" created by abreviating

Abreviating is using the first (or up to three) of a word to shorten communication of said word.

Ion is a subcompact built by Saturn to compete with Honda Civic

Saturn is a subsidary of General motors

General Motors makes Chevrolets and Buicks among others

[cygnus x-1]

hmmm.... explain please... whats EFI and how would i go about a high-spec rebuild? i mean ill be satisfied with 145-150hp ifi can keep the same mpg or better.... anything but the horrible 90hp, it will kill me one day XD lol

One thing to remember about gas mileage, is that it depends a lot on how you drive. The problem with driving a fast car is that you will tend to drive faster because it's fun. I know I drive faster in my Prelude than I do in my truck because my truck is slow and heavy (2000 Frontier, kitted out for off roading). Even a newer more efficient car will get lousy mileage if you bury the accelerator all the time.
It's also going to depend on how well the engine is tuned. Usually people that build engines for power don't really give a rip about mileage. If you did an OBD1 conversion or went with a stand alone ECU you could tune for economy at part throttle and power at full throttle.

150HP is quite doable with the engine you already have, but it will need a good rebuild and tune. With a well tuned fuel injection I would imagine 30MPG to be attainable.

C|

[86nlife2go]

lol at roodoo

buicks, among others, are loved in china.
china makes most of the products we sell in US
The US loves Hondas, so much so they built a plant here to produce EFI cars
See "what is EFI" lol jk, good luck man
I agree with the rebuild of what you have, a20 isnt a bad motor at all. Mine's still good at 256k mi.

[zigzag]

lol at roodoo

buicks, among others, are loved in china.
china makes most of the products we sell in US
The US loves Hondas, so much so they built a plant here to produce EFI cars
See "what is EFI" lol jk, good luck man
I agree with the rebuild of what you have, a20 isnt a bad motor at all. Mine's still good at 256k mi.

i never said there was anything wrong with the engine i have now.... its just underpowered.... i have about 200k miles on it and its still running like new.

how much would it cost to convert my car to fule injected? and if 150hp is doable with my engine how would i go about rebuilding and costs? what all would i need?

i apologize for my ignorance ^_^;;

[turabaka]

Just to clear something up. The head from the FI a20 has higher compression than the head on the carbed a20 right? So you could swap the head from and a20a3 and do a full rebuild with that. performance cam, port and polish, things like that. then throw a 38 weber, headers, and a 2.25 mandrel bent exhaust. That'd give you some decent power and still give good gas milage.

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

[cygnus x-1]

Just to clear something up. The head from the FI a20 has higher compression than the head on the carbed a20 right? So you could swap the head from and a20a3 and do a full rebuild with that. performance cam, port and polish, things like that. then throw a 38 weber, headers, and a 2.25 mandrel bent exhaust. That'd give you some decent power and still give good gas milage.

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

As I understand it the heads are the same, but the pistons have less of a dish on the A20A3. But either way the difference is very little, 9.3 vs 9.1. By the numbers that's like 1HP difference if you're lucky.

But yeah, you could do those things mentioned. I'm not sure you would quite get to 150HP. Would depend on the head work and cam. Mileage would be fair but probably not great. 25MPG, maybe a little better as a guess.

Cost would depend on how much work you can do yourself. Engine work is not cheap.

C|

[turabaka]

hmmm. alright then. Thanks for clearing that up.

[zigzag]

well as for right now the first step is to convert my engine to FI.... but im unsure of how to do it, what i need, and how much it will cost. is this work i can do on my own? ive swapped out the trani myself with help from a friend and replaced the cv joints myself with help from my dad.... is that enough experience to know what i might be getting myself into?

[forrest89sei]

well as for right now the first step is to convert my engine to FI.... but im unsure of how to do it, what i need, and how much it will cost. is this work i can do on my own? ive swapped out the trani myself with help from a friend and replaced the cv joints myself with help from my dad.... is that enough experience to know what i might be getting myself
into?

HOW TO: Convert Carb to EFI

http://www.geocities.com/carotman/howto/eficonv/EFIconversion.htm

[zigzag]

dude awesone thanks :D im reading it right now. im probably looking at $600 arnt i >.<

[Vanilla Sky]

When you do the conversion, drop the cash for a good aftermarket B-series manifold and at LEAST a Pacesetter header. Since you have to replace the intake manifold with the EFI swap, and usually also the exhaust manifold, go for performance parts from the get-go.

the B-series intake will require a matching fuel rail and throttle body. If you keep an eye out for something like a Victor-X manifold on Honda-Tech's marketplace, you could get a good intake for a song and dance.

[zigzag]

anybody live in San Antonio Texas that can help me with this XD lolol i think this is more than i bargained for >.<.... doesn't look too bad, but help from someone who knows what they are doing would be nice.

any idea on the cost?

how much would a pro cost on average if i got the parts?

[snoopyloopy]

you can run a 2.5-2.8l honda engine. a stroked and bored h22 or h23; can't remember how it was done for sure and can't find where i saw it before atm either.

[Vanilla Sky]

A pro wouldn't touch the swap. Quite a few have tried, none have gotten ANYONE to professionally install an EFI swap.

If you're not too wrench-saavvy, then sell the carbed accord and get an EFI accord.

If you were local, I'd help out if you would be willing to help me swap my car to EFI in return.

[zigzag]

A pro wouldn't touch the swap. Quite a few have tried, none have gotten ANYONE to professionally install an EFI swap.

If you're not too wrench-saavvy, then sell the carbed accord and get an EFI accord.

If you were local, I'd help out if you would be willing to help me swap my car to EFI in return.

a good way to learn, and if i was local i would defiantly take you up on that offer.... as for selling my car for another EFI accord.... i don't think ill find one in as good of condition as my accord.. granted i could use another bumper and passenger side fender (damn tire blew out).. i guess if i ever took a trip near your area i would be more than happy to help just to see what all i would be doing.

[MessyHonda]

yeah for me it was more easy to find a fuel injected 5 speed car than to convert my carbed automatic....but if you love your car...like some members on here...they have started off with carbed autos and now they are fuel injected/turboed cars.

[zigzag]

is fuel injected really worth the cost of a swap? couldn't i just build on my motor and make it turbo.... would gas be worse or the same if i keep my foot out of it.... less im going to houston XD 2 1/2 hours ima enjoy it lol

how much you think the engine work would cost to bump my car up to atleast 145 hp? what would need to be done?

[2drSE-i]

2kish i would think. turbo would be a bit more, but you would get more power. Gas mileage in a power car is going to be bad....just get used to that.

[zigzag]

i was reading up on the weber 32/36.... would that make much of a difference? would be a little more cheaper on my part.... considering $249 is more feasible than how ever much it cost to convert my car to fuel injected.... that can come later i guess. would this damage gas mileage considerably, or just by 2-3 miles if i keep my foot out of it?

would anyone know where to find installation instructions?

[turabaka]

I thought that the 32/36 gave about the same gas milage or better. It's the 38 that's a little worse.

[zigzag]

I thought that the 32/36 gave about the same gas milage or better. It's the 38 that's a little worse.

thats good, so what kind of HP boost am i looking at? 20-40hp, or am i dreaming lol

[turabaka]

hmm... I'd guess around 15-20?? anyone else know the answer?

[MessyHonda]

you would be lucky if the carb gives you like 10 more hp.

[zigzag]

from what I've read its supposed to give around 20% boost in hp which 98 X .20 = 19.6.... the rest is up to me if i want to add more horse by other means.... but i figured my carb is almost 20 years old anyways, i don't see any harm in getting a new upgraded one :)

[MessyHonda]

from what I've read its supposed to give around 20% boost in hp which 98 X .20 = 19.6.... the rest is up to me if i want to add more horse by other means.... but i figured my carb is almost 20 years old anyways, i don't see any harm in getting a new upgraded one :)


you got to remember the motor is not brand new....i went to go dyno with stock carb car and it only made 79whp...so 79x.20=15.... i still think its too much...i think at tops it will only give you 10% more...only way to find out is to dyno base and after.

[turabaka]

you got to remember the motor is not brand new....i went to go dyno with stock carb car and it only made 79whp...so 79x.20=15.... i still think its too much...i think at tops it will only give you 10% more...only way to find out is to dyno base and after.

you're only making 79 to the wheels. the hp measurement for the stock carbed car is 98 at the crank. 20% sounds like a more realistic number with a 38 weber. That's what I have now.

[zigzag]

....20% sounds like a more realistic number with a 38 weber. That's what I have now.

heh then weber needs to get their facts strait. either way mine is old and my car is hesitating when giving it gas after stopped. dad says just clean the carb for now.... does trani fluid work for cleaning carbs? cause ive heard it from 4 mechanics so far.

[cubert]

heh then weber needs to get their facts strait. either way mine is old and my car is hesitating when giving it gas after stopped. dad says just clean the carb for now.... does trani fluid work for cleaning carbs? cause ive heard it from 4 mechanics so far.


trans fluid for cleaning carbs? :huh:

[2drSE-i]

just use carb cleaner....