Smoky startup with carbed '88?

[greentee76]

So I got the head installed on my 88 and she is running good and not using coolant.
However, it still smokes pretty bad when I start it cold. Acts like it is loading up. Once it starts to heat up the smoke goes away. I believe that I am not getting vacuum advance like I should be. I am going to pull it in tonight and test the diaphram to make sure it is good. I see that this system also appears to inclede a thermovalve.
Anybody have this problem? If so what steps did you take to remedy it.

[russiankid]

What kind of smoke? Blue or black? If black you are running rich, and if blue you are getting oil in the cylinders which could be back valve guides.

[greentee76]

Good question..lol.
The smoke is more white/blue than anything. I don't think it is valve seals as I had this problem before I switched the head.

[ghettogeddy]

Good question..lol.
The smoke is more white/blue than anything. I don't think it is valve seals as I had this problem before I switched the head.

prolyl steam make sure your not getting water into the cylinders

[2ndGenGuy]

If it goes away after a bit, and the car runs good I wouldn't worry too much about it. There might be a little bit of ring wear, maybe some wear on the valve seals. Its kinda normal for an older motor.

[1ajs]

aww sure its not the rings? sounds just like mk3gee was doing
http://www.pointdouglas.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/475.jpg

[2oodoor]

normal, the rich mix from the choke cycle puts a bunch of gas in the cyl so it washes thru oil that has set over night from valve guides/seals. My dx does the same thing, it hasn't used a drop of oil yet. My lx with modded-rebuilt head and weber does it a lil only occasionally after it has set for a week or so, but daily it doesnt do it.
Lean the choke a bit, put in some good NGK plugs, spray the inside of the carb good with some carb cleaner, it should improve somewhat.

[Hazwan]

aww sure its not the rings? sounds just like mk3gee was doing
http://www.pointdouglas.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/475.jpg

lol and I thought mine is worse. Smells funny too.

[greentee76]

After some more investigation, it only seems to smoke as long as the choke is on. If I let it sit and idle with the choke on it continues to smoke. As soon as I get in and blip the throttle to get it off the choke the smoke goes away.

[steveko]

Mine does the same thing at times too.It's normal as roodoo2 said.

[Toneloc5145]

I wouldn't say it was normal, because my car has never smoked and I have a carb'd 89.

[steveko]

I meant it was normal if the choke sticks and does as roodoo2 said in his response post. 120,thousand and something is nothing. Wait till you get 200,thousand and something as I have.

[Toneloc5145]

Its actually 130,000 now, but that's still nothing, so your right about that. My point was that a newer motor doesn't do that, so the fact that your motor does means that something is wrong compared to what's supposed to happen. Regardless, we've owned many cars (carbureted and fuel injected) with well over 200,000 with no smoke whatsoever, but they were'nt Honda's so maybe I'm wrong. :thumbup:

[steveko]

True, no argument here.

[greentee76]

normal, the rich mix from the choke cycle puts a bunch of gas in the cyl so it washes thru oil that has set over night from valve guides/seals. My dx does the same thing, it hasn't used a drop of oil yet. My lx with modded-rebuilt head and weber does it a lil only occasionally after it has set for a week or so, but daily it doesnt do it.
Lean the choke a bit, put in some good NGK plugs, spray the inside of the carb good with some carb cleaner, it should improve somewhat.

Is there a choke circuit enrichment adjustment? If so where is it?
I just cannot see this amount of smoke being normal. As soon as the choke goes off the smoke is gone. I just find it hard to believe that the rings stop passing oil at the exact same time as the choke shuts off. I replaced the valve guide seals last night so that I could rule out oil from that direction.
It acts like someone enriched the choke to overcome some other problem? It acts like it is overfueling.

[russiankid]

I agree with Toneloc. I have an 89' with a carb that has 151,xxx miles on it and it doesn't smoke on start up nor while driving.

[zAFW]

Here's a suggestion I had a similar problem! Have you changed the oil or the fuel filter?

I used to get that every morning, I had to start the car and let the smoke go by, it wouldn't completely go away until I drive after 10 minutes. I'm thinking the cause of it was the fuel filter, when the car sits for too long all the dirt or whatever goes to the bottom and I guess that's what's being collected and then when you drive the whole thing is stirred together. Anyhow that's just a 'theory' I came up with because when I did an oil change and changed the fuel filter it was just.. gone! The next morning I was shocked! Here I was thinking the head gasket was blown or something.

[greentee76]

So.... I went ahead and changed both fuel filters (at tank and in engine compartment) and it "helped" some. Engine doesn't seem to bog as much when I start it. ( Thanks zAFW for the suggestion.) The smoke isn't quite as thick now.lol. However it still smokes until it starts to warm a little. I did a compression test and it seemed OK. A little low but she does have 217k miles on her. I gave it an oil change. I'm going through a couple quarts of oil a week (100 miles+-). Can anyone think of a reason why it would be picking up oil at startup? I have changed the pcv valve. I do not have vacuum on # 25 at the vacuum advance at startup ( I assume this is a bad thermovalve) but I wouldn't think that would cause this much smoke.
Any ideas will be read and appreciated.

[2oodoor]

You may need to replace the pvc plumbing all the way to the oil separator; they get old so they can get cracks and leak, or either colapse.
As for the choke you may need to check the choke pulloff and choke heater to make sure it is not holding the choke closed too long.

You're using oil too? probably valve seals too

[Ichiban]

Has anyone considered that when the choke is closed and the idle high, there may be more manifold vacuum, causing oil to be drawn past rings and valve guides? I'm not sure if this is likely, or even possible but it did spring to mind after reading this.

Does your car smoke if you rev it up and then snap the throttle shut, or when engine braking down hills with the throttle closed and the RPM high?

[greentee76]

Has anyone considered that when the choke is closed and the idle high, there may be more manifold vacuum, causing oil to be drawn past rings and valve guides? I'm not sure if this is likely, or even possible but it did spring to mind after reading this.

Does your car smoke if you rev it up and then snap the throttle shut, or when engine braking down hills with the throttle closed and the RPM high?

I do get a puff of smoke when I rev it up and slam the throttle shut, but nothing like what I get at startup. I think my next step is going to be to wire the choke open and see if it makes any apprecable difference. Other than this startup issue the car runs great. But this is getting rediculous. The clouds of smoke I leave are huge, until engine warms slightly and then it is just gone. I am worried about getting kicked out of my neighborhood.

You may be on to something, When I first start it it seems to act fine. RPMs come up to 2k like they should then starts to stumble and revs fall to 1200+- and it starts blowing smoke.

[Accordaone]

My '87 Accord was doing the same thing. Replaced the choke coil element(need to drill out the rivets) and it cured it. Use to smoke like crazy and diluted the oil with fuel. Good luck.

[steveko]

greentree76 What ever happend with this problem?

[greentee76]

Wow... yeah. Long story short(kinda.) Shortly after this I installed a Weber conversion, mostly to rule out anything in the emmisions system causing the problem. Did not make the problem any better but it was more manageable due to being able to manually shorten the choke cycle. About a month later I cracked an exhaust valve, I assume due to the oil passing.
I ended up going and pulling an engine at the local yard and putting in new rings and oil pump(total 200$:) ).
I pulled the pistons out of the old block and they were scarred up on the sides pretty good so I assume that this was what was allowing the oil to pass and giving me the smoke clouds until it warmed up.
So now I have the aforementioned A20A3 refreshed engine running the carb manifold and 32/36 weber, and she runs like new:thumbup:
Thanks for asking. Where have you been? I have not seen you around for awhile.

[steveko]

Sorry I've been working on several other projects thus the reason for my absence from the site.
Man you've done quite a bit too you're ride since.

The reason I asked because my car started doing it again the smoking on start up that is. But,I believe it's the choke sticking on too long. Because, at times it won't do it.
Also,it breaks up when driving til it's throughly warmed up the it releases.

I wish more people would follow up with their solutions. (Including myself).

[greentee76]

I did replace the choke coil assy. as well as the entire carb before I went to the weber.
I have to believe that the piston scoring was the root of the problem all along.

[steveko]

I'd say that would be correct assessment. That is with you're car of course.
At this point with my car, I'm just looking for cheap transportation and run decent.