Propane instead of R12 refrigerant?

[offthahook]

This dude told me that you can use propane in a system designed for the now obsolete R12 gas. If it were true, that would be titties especially if you have the Keihin compressor. I couldn't believe it, but it looks like it has been done and no one has blown up while doing it. He said it will get hella cold, too. Anyone have an EDUCATED opinion on this? It sounds scary because we always hear of propane tanks exploding, but he said there isn't much risk. Plus, you would smell a propane leak and an engine bay generally doesn't have enough spark to ignite. Discuss...

[forrest89sei]

This dude told me that you can use propane in a system designed for the now obsolete R12 gas. If it were true, that would be titties especially if you have the Keihin compressor. I couldn't believe it, but it looks like it has been done and no one has blown up while doing it. He said it will get hella cold, too. Anyone have an EDUCATED opinion on this? It sounds scary because we always hear of propane tanks exploding, but he said there isn't much risk. Plus, you would smell a propane leak and an engine bay generally doesn't have enough spark to ignite. Discuss...

It has it's Plus and Minuses

I've heard bad stories of people having there cars catch fire due to a leak or from having the line get cut by say a pulley

I'd look into this:

It's Called Freeze 12 and works in all R-12 systems, and sounds safer

http://www.freeze12.com/

[offthahook]

It has it's Plus and Minuses

I've heard bad stories of people having there cars catch fire due to a leak or from having the line get cut by say a pulley

I'd look into this:

It's Called Freeze 12 and works in all R-12 systems, and sounds safer

http://www.freeze12.com/

I've used freeze 12. According to dude, the propane will freeze you out. That would be the main reason for using it vs. a hybrid type drop in gas. FR12 is approved and probably the "proper" gas for older cars' AC systems. Propane just sounds so easy to get, cheap, and cold. Then, there's the flammability issue...

[2ndGenGuy]

I don't see a huge threat from fire. We do have gasoline running all the way through the car, in the cabin even. It sounds scary, but something tells me it's probably not.

[Jareds 89 LX-i]

Propane works as a refrigerant, but I would most definitely NOT advise it. It turns your car into a rolling bomb. Remember it would be flowing right through the condenser at the front of the car. If you get into a front end collision, the first thing that's gonna get smashed.... condenser. Very high risk of KABOOM!!

Do you have the EPA Sect. 609 certification to buy R-12?? If not I would just spend the $20 and get the license, then look around for R-12 on ebay. Sometimes you've gotta look for awile but it can be had for not all too much, just gotta find the right deal


PS off topic, but how are those rear discs working out?? My left rear caliper sprung a leak from where the parking brake mechanism goes into the top.... gotta get a new one...errrr

[offthahook]

Propane works as a refrigerant, but I would most definitely NOT advise it. It turns your car into a rolling bomb. Remember it would be flowing right through the condenser at the front of the car. If you get into a front end collision, the first thing that's gonna get smashed.... condenser. Very high risk of KABOOM!!

Do you have the EPA Sect. 609 certification to buy R-12?? If not I would just spend the $20 and get the license, then look around for R-12 on ebay. Sometimes you've gotta look for awile but it can be had for not all too much, just gotta find the right deal


PS off topic, but how are those rear discs working out?? My left rear caliper sprung a leak from where the parking brake mechanism goes into the top.... gotta get a new one...errrr

Good seein' ya man! I thought you were in Miami, FL. The rear discs are still on there and still a great upgrade. Man, that was sweet how you scored those and got them up here safely. That sucks about your rear caliper taking a dump, but the rear calipers seem to break down much faster than the front calipers.

I don't have a cert. for R12 and I thought about the possibility of the front end collision causing a spark and an expolsion. It just seems so cheap and easy to drop propane in there if you needed r12. Personally, I would probably just eat it and get the FR12 put in a system that required R12 and couldn't be retrofitted. I just never heard of Propane as a refrigerant since I always think propane and heat.

[Oldblueaccord]

Its popular in camping refridgerators and stuff like that. It does work well as a refridgerant gas. Not sure how well our compressors can handle it.

Have you tried 134a yet? I use it in my Honda and have had good good luck with it in about 10 years use. I also have used Freeze 12 in my old dodge ,3 years, and its works well too.


wp

[forrest89sei]

Its popular in camping refridgerators and stuff like that. It does work well as a refridgerant gas. Not sure how well our compressors can handle it.

Have you tried 134a yet? I use it in my Honda and have had good good luck with it in about 10 years use. I also have used Freeze 12 in my old dodge ,3 years, and its works well too.


wp

He has the Keihin Compressor, those Can't handle 134a no matter what you do.

Your best bet would be to buy:

Nippondenso Compressor, mounting bracket, and the two A/c lines going from the compressor and just convert your car to the Nippondenso type that works with Both R12 & 134a

[offthahook]

He has the Keihin Compressor, those Can't handle 134a no matter what you do.

Your best bet would be to buy:

Nippondenso Compressor, mounting bracket, and the two A/c lines going from the compressor and just convert your car to the Nippondenso type that works with Both R12 & 134a

That is the correct way and that's what you get when you buy the retrofit kit. Thing is, the parts alone are like $1000. Plus, Honda recommends doing the condensor and evaporator core at the same time as the conversion. I don't know if the Honda recommendations are absolutely required, but they do say to do it all at once. As a general rule, Kehin compressor really suck even if I were to put R12 back in with a rebuilt or used Keihin compressor.

So, for a ND conversion... all I would need is the mounting bracket and the 2 lines going out of the compressor? Any idea which Accords came with the ND type compressors (Dealer installed, 4 door lx-i's, 4 Door LX's, Japan made, US made, 88-89 Accords?...) or was it just random? I've found when Honda uses dual vendors, there is usually a pattern somehow as to which cars get which vendor make. It can be by VIN, factory of production, trim line, etc. Do you think used AC lines could be used or would brand new AC lines be a necessity? I'm sure a used bracket would be fine. Then a rebuilt ND compressor and ND AC belt and I would be set, right? Thanks for the knowledge man. Sounds like you've been there.

[forrest89sei]

That is the correct way and that's what you get when you buy the retrofit kit. Thing is, the parts alone are like $1000. Plus, Honda recommends doing the condensor and evaporator core at the same time as the conversion. I don't know if the Honda recommendations are absolutely required, but they do say to do it all at once. As a general rule, Kehin compressor really suck even if I were to put R12 back in with a rebuilt or used Keihin compressor.

So, for a ND conversion... all I would need is the mounting bracket and the 2 lines going out of the compressor? Any idea which Accords came with the ND type compressors (Dealer installed, 4 door lx-i's, 4 Door LX's, Japan made, US made, 88-89 Accords?...) or was it just random? I've found when Honda uses dual vendors, there is usually a pattern somehow as to which cars get which vendor make. It can be by VIN, factory of production, trim line, etc. Do you think used AC lines could be used or would brand new AC lines be a necessity? I'm sure a used bracket would be fine. Then a rebuilt ND compressor and ND AC belt and I would be set, right? Thanks for the knowledge man. Sounds like you've been there.

Theres no real way to know unless you look under the hood, I've Seen USA Made and Japan made with both types

If you want, i have a working nippondenso compressor, bracket, and the two main a/c lines you need, i'd sell it Cheap.

And on what honda says, Not really, you just need to flush the system with stuff you can buy at autoparts stores

Heres what the Nippondenso 10P15E Compressor:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8494/densoxe6.jpg



Heres the Kehin A150L:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/120/kehinhv5.jpg

[offthahook]

Theres no real way to know unless you look under the hood, I've Seen USA Made and Japan made with both types

If you want, i have a working nippondenso compressor, bracket, and the two main a/c lines you need, i'd sell it Cheap.

And on what honda says, Not really, you just need to flush the system with stuff you can buy at autoparts stores

Heres what the Denso Compressor:

http://info.rockauto.com/FourSeasons/FourSeasonsDetail.html?57350.jpg



Heres the Kehin:

http://info.rockauto.com/FourSeasons/FourSeasonsDetail.html?57871.jpg

That'd be sweet if you wanna sell them cheap. Are the ports plugged on the compressor to prevent any debris from getting in there and what shaep are the lines in? PM me. RockAuto doesn't allow linking, but I pasted the URL and saw the difference. Nice work looking those up.

[forrest89sei]

I still have the lines mounted to the compressor and them taped

I'll get you some pictures Later on today or tomorrow

[DBMaster]

I got six cans of R12 last year from Mexico that cost $2.50/can. It helps to know a dual citizen who drives there regularly. I have the EPA certification. You can buy R12 at auto parts stores for about $35/can. The prices on eBay seem to be coming down, probably because of declining demand. I like the sound of this one, but I am inclined to continue with R12 unless I can't get it any more, or until it gets to be a lot more expensive than it is now.

http://hc12ausa.com/

[offthahook]

:rockon:
I still have the lines mounted to the compressor and them taped

I'll get you some pictures Later on today or tomorrow

:rockon:

[frantik]

I don't see a huge threat from fire. We do have gasoline running all the way through the car, in the cabin even. It sounds scary, but something tells me it's probably not.

liquid gasoline is waaay less volatile than compressed propane gas..

i've got two old ass cans of R12 lying around if someone wants to make me an offer :kekeke:

[Dr_Snooz]

Ditch the Keihin compressor whatever you do. It will start leaking from the seals eventually and you'll be out of whatever you filled it with. There's no way to re-seal them either.

[lostforawhile]

This dude told me that you can use propane in a system designed for the now obsolete R12 gas. If it were true, that would be titties especially if you have the Keihin compressor. I couldn't believe it, but it looks like it has been done and no one has blown up while doing it. He said it will get hella cold, too. Anyone have an EDUCATED opinion on this? It sounds scary because we always hear of propane tanks exploding, but he said there isn't much risk. Plus, you would smell a propane leak and an engine bay generally doesn't have enough spark to ignite. Discuss...
the guy who told you it was ok ought to be beat for saying this, neverput propane in a refrigerant system. people have died doing this. it's like filling your refrigerant system with natural gas,what do you do when it leaks and you die in the explosion? it's completly illegal for this reason. there were people a few years ago selling r12 that was half propane. i'n not going to argue this point,i know a lot about refrigeration and this is foolish and stupid, end of post.

[lostforawhile]

Its popular in camping refridgerators and stuff like that. It does work well as a refridgerant gas. Not sure how well our compressors can handle it.

Have you tried 134a yet? I use it in my Honda and have had good good luck with it in about 10 years use. I also have used Freeze 12 in my old dodge ,3 years, and its works well too.


wpthe camping fridges don't run it through the compressor ,
Absorption types can work on propane, AC or DC...though DC marginal at best. Used to be simple, but with automatic features they've become troublesome. Needs to be level, or coolant won't circulate back. Last five years they are more tolerant. Nine times out of ten, problem happens when people run the fridge the night before to cool down for a trip, and they're parked at home on a very uneven surface.

To make something cold, you must remove the heat to achieve a resulting lower temperature. Heat is applied to boiler ... by either a propane or electric source .... Ammonia mixes with water. Want to boil off ammonia, but leave the water. So heat must be "correct". Ammonia is vaporized, some water is vaporized along with it. The coil slows the vapor, and any water will condense out. Ammonia vapor continues on up, and water condenses & trickles on back. Ammonia goes through condenser, it cools, and leaves as a liquid.

[DBMaster]

Here is some reading for you. It may be biased as well, but I could not keep quiet any more in the face of all you guys talking about exploding air conditioners.

http://www.aircondition.com/wwwboard/equipment/current/4071.html

In fact, many of the replacement refrigerants out there use propane as the main ingredient. From what I have found it appears that you would not be able to simply use the propane you use for a torch or gas grill because it still contains too many impurities, but the fact remains that there are numerous refrigerants out there that will perform better and be less detrimental to our A/C systems than R134a. Since I have maintained access to affordable R12 I am in no hurry to try them.

[Vanilla Sky]

When I have to break the seal on the system in our Camaro, it's going to Freeze12.

Straight propane is alright, but I wouldn't consider it for an automotive air conditioner. I'd happily use it for a stationary system, though.

[Pnem3]

93 degrees here today, my propane / butane mixture was blowing 37 degree vent temps. I've read the pros and cons and I made an informed decision for myself. Hydrocarbons aren't for everyone but they work extremely well.

[system-f]

most of you probably know this, but propane = R290

[Oldblueaccord]

the camping fridges don't run it through the compressor ,

yep your right, It uses up propane as it runs. I should have thought about that a little more.


wp

[DBMaster]

37 degree vent temp is better than I have ever gotten with R12. I can get 40 when it's not too hot, but 45 is about the best it ever get when it's 100 (like today). I wonder what you get trying to use R134a. Everything I have read about the HC refrigerants indicates that they run slightly lower pressures than R12 so you won't be threatening the lifespan of your A/C like with R134a which runs significantly HIGHER pressures than R12. A properly blended HC refrigerant should be no more flammable or dangerous than R134a, which is itself a HC refrigerant. The popularity of R134a "conversion" is simply due to availability and low cost.