View Full Version : 2drSE-i's '89 Coupe Supercharger Build
2drSE-i
03-13-2008, 05:35 AM
Alright guys, this is the official supercharger discussion thread, so discuss away!
The primary type of supercharger i want to talk about in here is Centrifugal, just because thats what i plan on running, but that by no means is the limiting factor to this thread. Roots blowers are great, but youd be forced to get a manifold made and a bunch of other stuff done to make it work.
The pimary problem with Centrifugal superchargers is that most of them spin Clockwise (CW), where as our motors spin Counter Clock-wise (CCW). This means that the blower would either have to be worked on and converted to CCW, or some other alternative.
Vortech Superchargers are made CCW or CW, but the max impeller speeds (50,000-65,000 depending on the blower) are quite a bit lower than that of other centrifugal superchargers (Rotrex superchargers (CW Only for the most part) 100,000 - 120,000)
Heres the motorwork that i plan on running with this setup.
Currently, i only want to run a max of 10 PSI
(Stolen quite a bit from Rjudgey, thanks man!)
Bottom End:
Pistons - Diamond Racing Custom, 83mm Bore, 21mm Wrist pins flat crowns (will have machined valve reliefs to match our head.)
Crank - Micropolished, knife-edged, hardcore balanced
Rods - Eagle H-Beam rods (for the 21mm Wrist pins)
Entire Rotating assembly hardcore balanced (No thrashy a20 here!)
Est. Compression: 10.5:1
Head: (This is where the money will be...
Rockers: Stock, refinished/balanced. Possibly ARP rocker studs, not sure
Valves: Stock, refinished or new, 5 Angle valve job
Ports matched to Edelbrock Performer X, DC Sports header.
Hardcore port n polish job.
Head Shaved .5mm
Bolt Ons
Exhaust: DC Sports header (i know, serious bottleneck here) Jet-Hotted all the way to the end. 2" Collector (stock on the DC) 2.50" High Flow Cat, 2.50" Piping, 2.50" Hooker Muffler. (Was debating, maybe 2.25" Muffler to generate backpressure?)
Intake: Edelbrock Performer X (4500-8200 RPM range), 65mm TB
Oil cooler, FPR, OBD-1 Tuned, Cam gear etc etc.
Other than the exhaust being a huge downpoint, what other problems do you guys see with this setup?
Let the supercharger discussion begin.
gfrg88
03-13-2008, 07:41 AM
the engine build sounds great :rockon:
never really looked into a supercharger before since im a "turbo guy" good luck!!
Hash_man_Se_i
03-13-2008, 07:49 AM
Personally I would rather take a roots type blower ie: jackson racing supercharger made for a B16 head and somehow make that work.
The biggest problem you might run into would be aligning the pulleys would it not?... they are also more efficient.
Either way, I am excited to see you try this, be sure to keep us posted, the engine build looks good.
2oodoor
03-13-2008, 09:30 AM
I kind of like the SC idea myself, It can and has been done. The suzuki jeep guys are doing it ....with carbed motors too.
As for clockwise or counter CW .. using serpentine belts you can drive off the back of the belt to change rotation.
When I was at the Summit superstore last week they had a supercharger on a SB Ford up front. The unit itself was like a turbine and it blew into an enclosed billet box, inside the box was the carb.
2drSE-i
03-13-2008, 09:50 AM
the roots type blowers are better for less lag, but that can be compensated for. the serpentine belt idea is pretty good actually, that may work. i was planning on ditching AC, relocating the p/s to where the AC is, and using a shaft setup, similar to the picture below for the blower. Not sure how to run the belt for that though...
edited to add picture
http://images.superstreetonline.com/aftermarket_auto_parts/130_0708_37_z+engine_tuning_kits+vortech_superchar ger.jpg
Accordtheory
03-13-2008, 12:41 PM
How about a procharger?
I've read many bad things about vortechs, like they don't last and aren't warrantied worth shit. The procharger is also a better, more efficient design..at least it was when I was looking into these.
russiankid
03-13-2008, 12:46 PM
the roots type blowers are better for less lag, but that can be compensated for. the serpentine belt idea is pretty good actually, that may work. i was planning on ditching AC, relocating the p/s to where the AC is, and using a shaft setup, similar to the picture below for the blower. Not sure how to run the belt for that though...
edited to add picture
http://images.superstreetonline.com/aftermarket_auto_parts/130_0708_37_z+engine_tuning_kits+vortech_superchar ger.jpg
Couldn't you just run a belt using the A/C part of the pulley? Also take in consideration of the upper radiator hose, may get in the way.
2drSE-i
03-13-2008, 01:47 PM
rad hose is a simple fix. The pulley wont be big enough to run a S/C belt, and the problem is that our cars spin the wrong way for most superchargers.
Forgot about prochargers. I wasn't going to run a vortech anyway because they don't spin fast enough.
MessyHonda
03-13-2008, 02:17 PM
valve springs? 2nd gen lude?
2drSE-i
03-13-2008, 09:15 PM
valve springs? 2nd gen lude?
i was actually considering contacting Bisimoto because he said he might start working on springs and titanium retainers for us. Since im already spending the big bucks why not?
MessyHonda
03-14-2008, 09:08 AM
i was actually considering contacting Bisimoto because he said he might start working on springs and titanium retainers for us. Since im already spending the big bucks why not?
cool get some prices...i have a port and polished head...and i would not mind better springs...i hate my 5800rpm valve float with my big ass cam
2drSE-i
03-14-2008, 09:24 AM
ok did a lil more research. Prochargers are made both CW and CCW (with the exception of one of their compressors, doesnt really matter cuz thats not the one i want to use...) so i have a compressor. Just the bracketry and the pulley shaft to figure out now.
2oodoor
03-14-2008, 04:41 PM
oooh ahhhh bracketry... drewl
:tongue:
ok , carby guys. the zuki SC with weber 32/36 looks a little too big to get by the firewall.... still thunking about this.
2drSE-i
03-14-2008, 09:13 PM
not sure how this is gonna work....
Basically, the prochargers dont make pulley shafts like the vortechs do, so theres not much ability to mount it on the pass. side like i want to. It will either have to fit down where the AC is, or it wont work. Vortechs are garbage, and i dont want to run a rotrex or something that will have to be machined to work.
Anyone have any mounting advice? i know the brackets will have to be custom made, but i want this to be able to fit.
HondaBoy
03-14-2008, 11:23 PM
see now this is what i'd like to do. but with use of a carburetor. i think a rejetted weber would work nicely. or a dual side draft setup with a custom plenum, that would be ideal, but difficult to tune. i had thought to do this a few years back when i saw my friends mustang with a procharger and how compact it was. i'd love to do that if i had some time to actually build an engine for this type of setup. but unfortunately i have very little spare time anymore. what i'd like to do is buy a good used motor and build it to swap in later on. my goal is to get around 160-220 whp out of the A20, so a supercharger may be what i need to look into modifying to make things work.
2drSE-i
03-18-2008, 07:37 PM
bump for ideas...
The things are so compact, i think it may be able to fit where the AC compressor belongs. What do you guys think?
MessyHonda
03-18-2008, 11:06 PM
bump for ideas...
The things are so compact, i think it may be able to fit where the AC compressor belongs. What do you guys think?
hurry cuz i want a similar set up. we can even use the ac belt of the crank pully
2drSE-i
03-19-2008, 07:48 AM
haha messy...what you dont realize is im gonna wait until i get my new job (January, thats if i pass the physical, psychological, interviews and testing stages) get a house with a garage (probably like march or so...) buy a shitload of tools, get obd-1 tuned, do all my suspension wants and desires, and a lot of body work (short of paint pretty much) .......so we are talking like july of next year at the earliest haha
2oodoor
03-19-2008, 08:29 AM
...^^^ he whores , then he whores some mores
the zuki SC Calimini or Camden type set up with weber 32/36 is too big I think. Looks like it would be too close to firewall, of course the manifold flange would need fabricating.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t280/roodoo2/SamChargerhalf.jpg
evil88accordLX
03-19-2008, 09:29 AM
...^^^ he whores , then he whores some mores
the zuki SC Calimini or Camden type set up with weber 32/36 is too big I think. Looks like it would be too close to firewall, of course the manifold flange would need fabricating.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t280/roodoo2/SamChargerhalf.jpg
also looks like the pulley is on the wrong side, your carb would be upside down.
stat1K
03-19-2008, 09:54 AM
ahh to dream... i wanna see this pan out as well but i guess i can wait a year and then bump a dead thread.
2oodoor
03-19-2008, 11:06 AM
also looks like the pulley is on the wrong side, your carb would be upside down.
of course, the point is that this is a very feesable idea and it can be made/done
evil88accordLX
03-19-2008, 12:18 PM
of course, the point is that this is a very feesable idea and it can be made/done
oh most definitely. ive been doing lots of reading on turboing a carbed engine, and it too is an incredibly feasable idea. probably take more time and money than its worth, but still opens up doors for carbed folks who want boost and arent into heavily modding/fabbing parts.....
MessyHonda
03-19-2008, 12:47 PM
haha messy...what you dont realize is im gonna wait until i get my new job (January, thats if i pass the physical, psychological, interviews and testing stages) get a house with a garage (probably like march or so...) buy a shitload of tools, get obd-1 tuned, do all my suspension wants and desires, and a lot of body work (short of paint pretty much) .......so we are talking like july of next year at the earliest haha
its cool....i just need to send in my konis... finish doing the b16 mani swap...and then tune again and hit the dyno for numbers.
Oldblueaccord
04-04-2008, 01:39 PM
Can't add to much to this but...
I did call Jackson racing/ Morris motors now and after getting bounced around on there phones for a while a guy told me they made a kit that was a dealer install. He did not know anything else about it.
My idea is to modify the intake just like a stock B18 and use the Integra set up. I have been cruisng Ebay for the intake but its not high on my priority list unless one just falls into my lap.
They did also tell me you can buy the parts inividualy thru there web site but I did not figure out how to do it. You have to knw the part number of what you want.
wp
Also for brackets a good way to mock something up is use plywood or MDF. Its easy to use and modify and its pretty strong to hang parts off of until you have something made in metal or make it your self.
Hash_man_Se_i
04-04-2008, 02:09 PM
^^ Ya IMO, the jackson racing kits would be somewhat easy to make work with some fab skill and dedication. Get one for the b16 application, mod the mount slightly to make it fit, and then figure out the pulley situation... which will probably get somewhat complicated, and may involve getting a new crank pulley or something CNC'd to make it all work.
Oldblueaccord
04-14-2008, 12:47 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jackson-Racing-Honda-Supercharger-Intake-Manifold_W0QQitemZ180233088458QQcmdZViewItem?_trks id=p3286.m20.l1116
mock one up!
wp
2ndGenGuy
04-14-2008, 01:46 PM
oh most definitely. ive been doing lots of reading on turboing a carbed engine, and it too is an incredibly feasable idea. probably take more time and money than its worth, but still opens up doors for carbed folks who want boost and arent into heavily modding/fabbing parts.....
Putting a turbo setup on a car with a carb seems to me to be far less costly and difficult than putting a turbo on a car with OBD-0. No electronics, piggybacking, sensors, and crap to deal with. Just a charge pipe up to the carb's intake hat, make sure you've got the right floats and a pressurized float bowl, rising rate FPR, and then it's all just tuning from there. Easier if you convert to a Weber carb, but as I've been finding out lately, you can do the conversion for around $100-150. Not as costly as one once thought.
blackcougar141
04-15-2008, 04:20 AM
Hey guys, a buddy of mine had a Jackson Racing SC on his SOHC 95 Civic and had nothing but problems out of it because of it's "sealed bearings". Plus, the tech support and warranty gave him problems because he did the install himself (Army Mechanic), and didn't have it put on by a shop....
2oodoor
04-15-2008, 07:37 AM
Putting a turbo setup on a car with a carb seems to me to be far less costly and difficult than putting a turbo on a car with OBD-0. No electronics, piggybacking, sensors, and crap to deal with. Just a charge pipe up to the carb's intake hat, make sure you've got the right floats and a pressurized float bowl, rising rate FPR, and then it's all just tuning from there. Easier if you convert to a Weber carb, but as I've been finding out lately, you can do the conversion for around $100-150. Not as costly as one once thought.
you might want to consider crank fired igniton, like EDIS and megajolt timing controller too, turboing carb motors ftw!
race12001
04-15-2008, 09:04 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jackson-Racing-Honda-Supercharger-Intake-Manifold_W0QQitemZ180233088458QQcmdZViewItem?_trks id=p3286.m20.l1116
mock one up!
wp
i might just pick this up 50 aint bad
Oldblueaccord
04-16-2008, 06:01 AM
did you get it? its gone.
heres the Eaton rebuilder site.
http://www.mn12performance.com/magnuson/magnuson.htm
http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_m45data.htm
more specs capa's prices are a little high.
wp
stat1K
11-06-2009, 08:34 PM
hey it's been over a year, i'm making good on my old promise!
2drSE-i
11-06-2009, 08:37 PM
haha messy...what you dont realize is im gonna wait until i get my new job (January, thats if i pass the physical, psychological, interviews and testing stages) get a house with a garage (probably like march or so...) buy a shitload of tools, get obd-1 tuned, do all my suspension wants and desires, and a lot of body work (short of paint pretty much) .......so we are talking like july of next year at the earliest haha
and none of this is happening any time soon. My ideal job went through a ton of budget cuts....
stat1K
11-06-2009, 08:55 PM
lameeeeeeee.
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