megasquirt issues

[hondaman1986]

ok well i have just put a megasquirt on my 86 hatch and am having huge troubles with my afrs and my fpr. just swaped out 2 bad injectors and the car runs better now but the afrs went from 8.5/8.4 to 7.4 and i have a msd high pressure fuel pump with an aem ajustable fpr set to the loweest setting it can go with the biggest orafice it came with to over come the 125psi the pump puts out. the issuse i am having is no matter what i do to the megasquirt or the fpr it still runs a 7.4 are and when i kill the pump it idles a little higher and runs 7.2 afrs and then i give a little rev and it drops to a 20 afr. im running factory 89 injectors on a factory 89 mani can anyone help me please?


p.s. would it help if i put an injector resistor box in insted of using the megasquirt's pwm limmiter for low impedence injectors???

[thegreatdane]

what is your fuel pressure?

[hondaman1986]

honestly i dont know i dont have a gauge yet but if factory max pump pressure is around 60 psi and with the smallest orafice at 0.1" and half of the screw in, and this setup i have the biggest orafice at 0.2" and the lowest setting on the reg with a max pump pressure is 125 so i should be ok but i am ordering a gauge kit today just to make sure. my question with that is could all of this be caused by fuel pressure?

[2oodoor]

How are your TPS and CTS readings?\
Did you already use a default programing of some sort for MAP interface in regards to timing and injectors?
Just don't get caught up in focusing on one area, without checking everything else along the way. If you dumped a bunch of fuel in the crankcase getting this thing up you will be reading rich a lot, as well as washing oil off the cylinders.
More information would help get this solved, so yes to rule out FP, you need a guage.

[hondaman1986]

How are your TPS and CTS readings?\
Did you already use a default programing of some sort for MAP interface in regards to timing and injectors?
Just don't get caught up in focusing on one area, without checking everything else along the way. If you dumped a bunch of fuel in the crankcase getting this thing up you will be reading rich a lot, as well as washing oil off the cylinders.
More information would help get this solved, so yes to rule out FP, you need a guage.


the fp gauge is on its way and im only running fuel right now and as far as i can tell no fuel got into the crankcase. the tps reads normal and the coolent is the same. im also wondering could it be timing??? i ran the dizzy the same way it said to in the stage 3-4-5 vaccum removal shout i do something else with it????

[EricW]

What is your base timing on the map? and what is the timing on your motor set at?

[hondaman1986]

How are your TPS and CTS readings?\
Did you already use a default programing of some sort for MAP interface in regards to timing and injectors?
Just don't get caught up in focusing on one area, without checking everything else along the way. If you dumped a bunch of fuel in the crankcase getting this thing up you will be reading rich a lot, as well as washing oil off the cylinders.
More information would help get this solved, so yes to rule out FP, you need a guage.



tps and cts are normal and what do you mean by a map interface? also i just checked my oil and i have about 2 quarts of gas in there that i will change out later today and the gauge will be here from jegs in 2 days

[cygnus x-1]

Something is way wrong here. I'm having a hard time believing that the engine will even run with the AFR that rich. 10:1 yeah, but at 8:1 it would be choking on fuel. First of all, set the FPR to the lowest setting possible and leave it for now. If you have the gauge, hook it up and turn on the ignition to get the pump going and see what the pressure is at. Go ahead and set it to 25-30 PSI or so. The actual pressure isn't critical but once you set it DON'T change it until you get the MS running right. Changing the fuel pressure changes the entire tuning MAP so don't mess with it. Tuning should be done with the MS, not the fuel pressure. Also make sure you have a manifold vacuum line connected to the FPR so that it compensates for vacuum changes.

The next thing is to check all the MS settings. I assume you're using 240cc injectors right? What is your req_fuel value? And what is your injector staging set to? Can you send me your .msq file? What are you using for an O2 sensor? If it's the stock sensor then you won't get proper AFR readings from it. Narrow band sensors don't really work if the AFR is very far off from 14.7:1. And even then they aren't very accurate. They really only tell you if the engine is running rich or lean. Oh, and which MS do you have? HW and SW versions?

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[hondaman1986]

the car bairly runs on 8.4 it will only run above 1500 rpm the fpr is on the lowest setting and the biggest orafice so its as low as posible. i have a guage and i am going to co check the pressure later today. i am running the factory injectors so 240cc sounds right. and i am running an innovate lc-1 wideband o2 sensor that was perfect with my carb and its only been 3 weekd scence i got it. hardware is the factory ms-1 and was sw ver. 029y4 but i changed it to 029v because i have herad that certan software versions can cause this problem.


Something is way wrong here. I'm having a hard time believing that the engine will even run with the AFR that rich. 10:1 yeah, but at 8:1 it would be choking on fuel. First of all, set the FPR to the lowest setting possible and leave it for now. If you have the gauge, hook it up and turn on the ignition to get the pump going and see what the pressure is at. Go ahead and set it to 25-30 PSI or so. The actual pressure isn't critical but once you set it DON'T change it until you get the MS running right. Changing the fuel pressure changes the entire tuning MAP so don't mess with it. Tuning should be done with the MS, not the fuel pressure. Also make sure you have a manifold vacuum line connected to the FPR so that it compensates for vacuum changes.

The next thing is to check all the MS settings. I assume you're using 240cc injectors right? What is your req_fuel value? And what is your injector staging set to? Can you send me your .msq file? What are you using for an O2 sensor? If it's the stock sensor then you won't get proper AFR readings from it. Narrow band sensors don't really work if the AFR is very far off from 14.7:1. And even then they aren't very accurate. They really only tell you if the engine is running rich or lean. Oh, and which MS do you have? HW and SW versions?

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[cygnus x-1]

the car bairly runs on 8.4 it will only run above 1500 rpm the fpr is on the lowest setting and the biggest orafice so its as low as posible. i have a guage and i am going to co check the pressure later today. i am running the factory injectors so 240cc sounds right. and i am running an innovate lc-1 wideband o2 sensor that was perfect with my carb and its only been 3 weekd scence i got it. hardware is the factory ms-1 and was sw ver. 029y4 but i changed it to 029v because i have herad that certan software versions can cause this problem.

Ok. Can you send me your .msq file? What is your req_fuel value? That value is important for getting the right amount of fuel to the engine.

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[hondaman1986]

Ok. Can you send me your .msq file? What is your req_fuel value? That value is important for getting the right amount of fuel to the engine.

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its going to sound lame but i dont know how to upload the file to here. although my fuel pressure says 22psi at the pump so it should be around 20psi or so at the rail but the reqired fuel says 13.6ms on top and bottom. also i changed my oil and there was about 2-3 quarts of fuel in there so that could also be why my afr's where off bacause i had 2 stuck injectors that i swaped out for better ones.
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[edit] i just tryed to start it back up and still having the same issue. i adjusted my fpr to 30psi and it will actualy almost idle now but it surges and am still getting 8.4-8.9 afrs. i am wondering if it could be more bad injectors? maybie??? also on a side note it will rev better and quicker and the afrs go to about 15 to 1 and then when im off the gas after reving it a little (only to about 2500-3000rpm) they shoot down to a 20 to 1 or so the go right back to a 8.4-8.9 afr. at this point i am going back to the junkyard and grabing 4 all new injectors to try this again because thats what i think is the prob and i am also going to grab an injector resistor box so i can take the pwm thing out of the equation. and i deas anyone?!?!?! the more help i can get the better

[cygnus x-1]

Actually I was thinking you could just email it to me. Still have my address?

Anyway your req_fuel is just about right. Although that won't mean much if your fuel map is whacked. It does sound like maybe you have crappy injectors. PWM settings should be:

injector opening time ~= 1.0ms
PWM current limit = 30%
PWM time threshold ~= 1.0ms

I'm guessing your injector staging is alternating, with 2 injections per cycle. Once you get it running better I might suggest going to 4 injections per cycle but 2 is fine and probably easier to get running.

If you get in a jam I can send you some injectors that I know work. Just let me know.

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[hondaman1986]

Actually I was thinking you could just email it to me. Still have my address?

Anyway your req_fuel is just about right. Although that won't mean much if your fuel map is whacked. It does sound like maybe you have crappy injectors. PWM settings should be:

injector opening time ~= 1.0ms
PWM current limit = 30%
PWM time threshold ~= 1.0ms

I'm guessing your injector staging is alternating, with 2 injections per cycle. Once you get it running better I might suggest going to 4 injections per cycle but 2 is fine and probably easier to get running.

If you get in a jam I can send you some injectors that I know work. Just let me know.

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im pretty sure i still have your email didnt i just send you one about injector stuff??? i dont remember lol. well the first time i tryed it way back about a month ago it had the factory fpr on it and thats only good till about 60psi and well i am stupid and ran 125 to it so im sure i still have bad injectors but only 2 i hope. um how much would you charge me for those good injectors??? my pwm settings are right on but im frustrated so i can get carryed away :)

[cygnus x-1]

Any progress yet? You did send me an email about injector settings a few weeks ago or so. I'll email you about the injectors.

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[hondaman1986]

well i got the email. to bad it wasnt 2 days earlyer cause i splurged and bought 370cc injectors for $300 and i realy didnt want to spend that much. they will be here monday or tuesday so i will give an update one of those days. let me know if you sell those injectors though cause i might have a friend that needs some ill talk to him and see.

[cygnus x-1]

Yeah, I know how that is. You get anxious to get things going and start spending more money than you originally intended. Seen that movie a million times.

Yeah, I'll sell the injectors if you know someone that needs them.

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[hondaman1986]

Yeah, I know how that is. You get anxious to get things going and start spending more money than you originally intended. Seen that movie a million times.

Yeah, I'll sell the injectors if you know someone that needs them.

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i should talk to her tomarow and i will let you know. yea i am deffinatly anxious i want this thing to run badly. but i sold some stuff to get the money so im not that deep in the hole so i should come out on budget.

[MessyHonda]

even 370 injectors would not be that good for boast...some people run 450cc or 550cc

[hondaman1986]

even 370 injectors would not be that good for boast...some people run 450cc or 550cc


ran into some issuses concerning my turbo upgrade. i got fired from my job at a mechanics shop so the turbo project is on the back burner for now and i want to get the megasquirt up and running to tune for e85 and good gas mileage. yes i know that 370's are to small for a turbo but i have the option to run a secondary fuel rail with 2 more 370's wich should be enough for the boost i would be running and they wont come in untill i get into boost but i will get into that later on when i find a new job and get some money back in the bank. on a better note i got the injectors and will put them in today so i will update later

[cygnus x-1]

Welcome to the unemployment club! I quit my job about a month ago because things were just so screwed up there I couldn't deal with it anymore.

Should be interesting to see how the E85 runs. You'll have to drop your req_fuel value for the new injectors. About 9ms should work.

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[MessyHonda]

oh that sucks....about the job....i was thinking about going 290cc or 310 for my NA motor

[hondaman1986]

oh that sucks....about the job....i was thinking about going 290cc or 310 for my NA motor


yea it realy does cause im halfway through the other rebuild and now i have no money to finnish it or the turbo project but hopefully i will find another soon. the 370's i got are from jegs and they are for a prelude vtec for only $75 or so a peice and i will let you all know how they work soon. how much power n/a are you going for???

[hondaman1986]

hey everyone i posted a vid of my car and how it is running on youtube. heres the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4alVo_FIHw and it realy sounds like its got bad timing on it but tell me what you all think.

[cygnus x-1]

It sounds like it's running way rich, which it obviously is given the exhaust smoke and fuel spitting out the tail pipe. Set the req_fuel value down a little to lean it out. You had it set at 8.8ms in the file you sent me. Try like 8.2ms. If it's still rich, keep lowering it. Eventually it should lean out.

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[hondaman1986]

It sounds like it's running way rich, which it obviously is given the exhaust smoke and fuel spitting out the tail pipe. Set the req_fuel value down a little to lean it out. You had it set at 8.8ms in the file you sent me. Try like 8.2ms. If it's still rich, keep lowering it. Eventually it should lean out.

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ok i will try that. sorry im still a real noobie on this type of tuning as if from scratch cause i usualy have a good base to run off of

[cygnus x-1]

No worries man. I went through the same thing trying to get mine going. I spent weeks trying to get it to run right, only to find out I had the setting for fuel stoichiometry totally wrong. It was a simple units conversion mistake, but it took someone else to look at it and see that it was wrong. Once that was corrected everything was great.
So keep at it and you will get it going.

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[hondaman1986]

No worries man. I went through the same thing trying to get mine going. I spent weeks trying to get it to run right, only to find out I had the setting for fuel stoichiometry totally wrong. It was a simple units conversion mistake, but it took someone else to look at it and see that it was wrong. Once that was corrected everything was great.
So keep at it and you will get it going.

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thanks for the support i will get it eventualy thanks to the help of you and every one else. later today i will go back and start lowering the required fuel and see what the does and i will grab some new plugs to get rid of the bad ones which are probibly pluged up

[cygnus x-1]

New plugs wouldn't hurt. Get the fuel leaned out first though before you swap the plugs. No sense in fouling up the new plugs too.

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[hondaman1986]

New plugs wouldn't hurt. Get the fuel leaned out first though before you swap the plugs. No sense in fouling up the new plugs too.

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well the wideband says i am now running at 22afr so i am now leaned out lol and now i have a realy bad ticking noise at about 1200-1300rpm and i mean its loud! so i am going to try and richen it up a little bit and see if it will go away.

[cygnus x-1]

Don't know what to make of the ticking. That sounds more like a mechanical problem, like a rocker needs adjusting.

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[hondaman1986]

Don't know what to make of the ticking. That sounds more like a mechanical problem, like a rocker needs adjusting.

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thats what i think i will check it tomarow

[Oldblueaccord]

I have been reading but my comment on the ticking is make sure you have fresh oil in the car and the oil level is correct. The oil may be so thinned by fuel that its not working.


wp

[hondaman1986]

well some super bad news everyone...




i put my carb back on to se if it was realy the megasquirt and it wasnt. when i tryed to drive it around and see if it did anything and it was smoking like crazy... i mean it was like a damn fire was in the back of my car fogging the bugs out of se portland. lol i think its from the first injectors wiping off the cylinders and causing the rings to fail. so thins whole progect has been put on hold. i will be posing up pics starting tomarow of the engine dissasembaly and trying to track down what exactly happend so stay tuned everyone cause this is far from over.

[Oldblueaccord]

Was it a new rebuild? that kinda sucks if it was.

I guess you know now to start off with a good known setup and then go from there on a break in. I got an old carb I use for cam break ins on my V-8 before I put the new carb on just casue I know new does not mean it works.

Hopefully it just need new rings.


wp

[hondaman1986]

Was it a new rebuild? that kinda sucks if it was.

I guess you know now to start off with a good known setup and then go from there on a break in. I got an old carb I use for cam break ins on my V-8 before I put the new carb on just casue I know new does not mean it works.

Hopefully it just need new rings.


wp



luckly it was the origanal engine with 245xxx miles on it so i knew it was going to happen sooner or later but i think its just rings "i hope" i didnt get a chance to check it a couple of days ago but i am going to pull the head today and i will post some pics soon... and i will use my old carb for my break-in because i agree with you on the old relyable setup to break stuff it just because "new does not mean it works" lol

[cygnus x-1]

Man, that blows. This is exactly why I first put on a Weber when I did my engine rebuild. Very simple and easy to get running so the engine can go through the initial break in.

One other thing I would mention specifically for the Megasquirt, is that it's a good idea to start with a Required Fuel value that's a little too low when you go to start the engine for the first time. This way it won't flood and you can gradually increase the value until it idles ok. Although that won't help if you have a sticky injector.

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