89 LX - Hesitation and Boggy Under Load

[rrhodes]

Hi,

I'm a newbie here and I'm REALLY glad to have finally found a forum that caters to 3rd gen accords - there's not much else out there.

My girlfriend's brother gave her his 89 LX - manual shift/carb w/ 321,000 km's and it is in beautiful condition, extremely clean.

I have changed and/or completed the following parts/work since she got the car:
1. cap and rotor
2. plugs and wires
3. rear shocks (nothing to do with my problem :)
4. carb clean
5. check of vacuum hoses
6. EGR check for vacuum leak
7. Coil checked as per Haynes
8. Thermostat

The engine's idle is excellent. When the engine is cold (going down the road) I don't seem to have a hesitation but when it warms up after a few minutes it seems to get boggy and hesitate. If I really put my foot into the gas pedal it seems to go away somewhat. This problem has been present since we got the car.

I did a search on the forum but could really use some advise here. I also read the sticky about NGK plugs and gapping to .035. I'm going to give that a shot this morning.

Any information and/or help would greatly be appreciated. This is such a fantastic car and I want to ensure it's around for awhile!

Many thanks,
Rob

[-=89 LX-I=-*A20A3*]

are you running with your ac cuz if so thats part of it...

[rrhodes]

are you running with your ac cuz if so thats part of it...

Hi,

A/C is not turned on and the hesitation is more pronounced and more often than the pull when the A/C compressor is on.

I changed over to NGK plugs and gapped them at .035 this afternoon. This made a slight change but the hesitation is still there. I'm actually wondering if the number four plug is crossed threaded. It was easy to put in at first but very quickly became difficult to screw in with my socket. I tried six ways to Sunday to get the plug to screw in without binding but it just wouldn't go. The plug is in but I'm not so sure it's in as far as the other plugs. This alone could be the hesitation issue.......

Any feedback is really appreciated.

Rob

[russiankid]

are you running with your ac cuz if so thats part of it...

A/C won't cause the car to hesitate...at least mine never does.

[rrhodes]

A/C won't cause the car to hesitate...at least mine never does.

I think there might be a slight power dip when the compressor kicks in but very light.

[russiankid]

I think there might be a slight power dip when the compressor kicks in but very light.

It is noticeable, but I highly doubt your A/C will cause the symptoms you are experiencing not to mention you said it is off.

[BITESIZE]

Oxygen sensor? Vacuum Advance Diaphram? Coil? Fuel Filter? Bad Fuel Pump? Bad main relay?

[steveko]

My car has done the same thing for years. My compression is low and it may be leaking at the carb base gasket. I have too check it really good on a nice day.

Anyway, maybe something for you too look into. Also, It only hesitates at about 2000rpms. And runs lean after looking at the plugs a few times. Still think it's vaccum leak at carb base. Never looked at the Brake booster for leaks.

[russiankid]

Come to think of it, mine would hesitate when my fuel pump was going out.

[rrhodes]

Oxygen sensor? Vacuum Advance Diaphram? Coil? Fuel Filter? Bad Fuel Pump? Bad main relay?
I forgot to mention that I replaced the fuel filters and I also checked the coil(it passed the multimeter tests for resistance).

I have a vacuum pump and checked the VAD - I did not detect a bad diaphram. Also, regarding the main relay - this is a new one for me. Where is it and how do I test it? Also, is there a test for the O2 sensor?


My car has done the same thing for years. My compression is low and it may be leaking at the carb base gasket. I have too check it really good on a nice day.

Anyway, maybe something for you too look into. Also, It only hesitates at about 2000rpms. And runs lean after looking at the plugs a few times. Still think it's vaccum leak at carb base. Never looked at the Brake booster for leaks.

I sprayed starter fluid around the base of the carb and did not detect a leak. I have not checked my compression yet.

Rob

[steveko]

I have too change my thermostat today.I think after that I'll check all the vaccum sources while I'm at it.

I think I remember reading that lack of vaccum too the powervalve causes hesitation. I think it was by A20A1. Also, look into the vaccum secondaries check that source of vaccum too.

[rrhodes]

I have too change my thermostat today.I think after that I'll check all the vaccum sources while I'm at it.

I think I remember reading that lack of vaccum too the powervalve causes hesitation. I think it was by A20A1. Also, look into the vaccum secondaries check that source of vaccum too.

Thanks for the information. I p/u a bottle of "Seafoam" and used it in the carb, vacuum line from the brake booster and the last 3rd in the gas tank. One word "Wow". What a huge smoke so I'm glad I was outside. I immediately noted a marked difference after a good long haul down the highway. That is REALLY good stuff.

I will still be checking for other potential vac issues as per this thread.

Speaking of thermostats - I have noted that ever since I changed the thermostat, the temp needle does not go up to halfway anymore and I was sure that it did prior to the thermostat going bad. Where does the needle sit on average when the engine is fully warmed?

Rob

[steveko]

My car sits at about 8'Oclock if 9 is the halfway point best I can describe it for now.

It's funny that russiankid mentioned the fuel pump I still have too check the fuel output in cc's for a given time. The pressure is low according too the gauge I used. And it's a OEM Honda part replaced 2years ago.Fuel pressure is still the same as the original unit. I don't get it .

Well at least I put the new thermostat in. And checked vaccum secondary vac was about 7''hg when at full throttle no load on the motor. Just a momentary flooring of the throttle. Also the power valve vaccum at idle is 20''hg.

[rrhodes]

My car sits at about 8'Oclock if 9 is the halfway point best I can describe it for now.

It's funny that russiankid mentioned the fuel pump I still have too check the fuel output in cc's for a given time. The pressure is low according too the gauge I used. And it's a OEM Honda part replaced 2years ago.Fuel pressure is still the same as the original unit. I don't get it .

Well at least I put the new thermostat in. And checked vaccum secondary vac was about 7''hg when at full throttle no load on the motor. Just a momentary flooring of the throttle. Also the power valve vaccum at idle is 20''hg.

Thanks for the information. My temp needle sits at 8 o'clock when warm so that's good.

Q: I noted that whenever I removed the gas cap I would get a rush of air from the tank. I thought maybe the cap vent wasn't working so I replaced it with a new cap but I'm still having the same problem.

Is this normal or is there perhaps a vent tube that's plugged somewhere which might be preventing full fuel flow to the engine and in turn causing the hesitation under load??

[steveko]

That's normal from what I understand.Also,the fuel pressure from what I read is supposed to be between 2.6 to 3.3 psi.

Did you get a chance too check you're compression?

[MessyHonda]

i noticed that my hesitation stop after i changed both fuel filters

[rrhodes]

That's normal from what I understand.Also,the fuel pressure from what I read is supposed to be between 2.6 to 3.3 psi.

Did you get a chance too check you're compression?

I don't have access to a compression tester "yet" but I'm working on it.

I did the "Throttle Controller Adjusting" test and the adjusting screw had to be turned in a few turns to meet the correct values of the test - it seemed to make a difference and I'm wondering if I shouldn't turn it in a little more.

Also, I ran Seafoam through the carb and vacuum booster hose again yesterday. I'm getting a lot of white smoke in the engine compartment which seems to be coming from under the carb. The white smoke is only supposed to come out the exhaust. I think this might be indicating a vac leak at the carb gasket.

Despite the hesitation issue I check the fuel mileage after fill-up yesterday. I'm getting 28 mpg combined. Not bad for an engine that has 322,000 km's on it!


i noticed that my hesitation stop after i changed both fuel filters
They have both been changed. I only wish that would have solved the problem!

[evil88accordLX]

Q: I noted that whenever I removed the gas cap I would get a rush of air from the tank. I thought maybe the cap vent wasn't working so I replaced it with a new cap but I'm still having the same problem.

Is this normal or is there perhaps a vent tube that's plugged somewhere which might be preventing full fuel flow to the engine and in turn causing the hesitation under load??

fuel tank is supposed to be pressurized. the air rushing you experience is pressure release. all cars do that, and on newer cars if your cap isnt on or not tightened all the way, your check engine light will come on.

[steveko]

Dam computer.

[steveko]

Let me see now.

[steveko]

Could possibly be a leak under the base gasket. Seafoam in the brake booster vaccum hose never tried that one.

I Heard that a light oil around the base helps with location of the leak or leaks.

[rrhodes]

Could possibly be a leak under the base gasket. Seafoam in the brake booster vaccum hose never tried that one.

I Heard that a light oil around the base helps with location of the leak or leaks.

I have to say that the Seafoam is definately making a difference. Today I put a 3rd of the can in crankcase. My thinking is that if I do have a lot of crap buildup around the valves and they are not seating properly this could could cause a compression issue which could be part of my problem.

I'm going on a little road trip down the highway for about an hour tomorrow and from what I felt today already I'm thinking things are getting better. I'll be reporting back on Thursday.

Rob

[Dr_Snooz]

I've been watching this thread for days thinking the whole time that this was a crap gas issue. Use good gas, like Chevron 91, and you'll avoid sooooo many strange and wonderful problems. You won't need to use Seafoam either. I know everyone speaks well of it, but I don't trust anything that is that violent.

If you're worried about deposits in the crankcase, use a high quality synthetic oil like Mobil1. The deposits will clear out slowly, which I think is a lot better for the car.

Just my two cents.

[rrhodes]

I've been watching this thread for days thinking the whole time that this was a crap gas issue. Use good gas, like Chevron 91, and you'll avoid sooooo many strange and wonderful problems. You won't need to use Seafoam either. I know everyone speaks well of it, but I don't trust anything that is that violent.

If you're worried about deposits in the crankcase, use a high quality synthetic oil like Mobil1. The deposits will clear out slowly, which I think is a lot better for the car.

Just my two cents.

I'm back from a road trip. I really think that the hesitation (which is getting a bit better) is something to do with the carb. When I notice the hesitation say in 3rd at about 2800 rpm - if I really put my foot into the pedal the hesitation goes away and there is lots of upper end smooth power.

I won't claim to understand the carb in this car but I'm thinking that there might be some sort of fuel circuit that is worn out and when you really step on the gas another circuit cuts in that is not having the same problem - maybe I just need to do a rebuild - does this sound crazy?

Are rebuilds difficult to do? Also, is it hard to remove the carb. I have access to other carbs on 3rd gen Accords.

Rob

[Kagato]

I'm having the same problem, only it happens only in second gear, and started after i hit redline in 1st and threw her into second. im always breakin shit it seems....

[steveko]

I'm back from a road trip. I really think that the hesitation (which is getting a bit better) is something to do with the carb. When I notice the hesitation say in 3rd at about 2800 rpm - if I really put my foot into the pedal the hesitation goes away and there is lots of upper end smooth power.

I won't claim to understand the carb in this car but I'm thinking that there might be some sort of fuel circuit that is worn out and when you really step on the gas another circuit cuts in that is not having the same problem - maybe I just need to do a rebuild - does this sound crazy?

Are rebuilds difficult to do? Also, is it hard to remove the carb. I have access to other carbs on 3rd gen Accords.

Rob






Pull your plugs at somepoint and see what they look like.

[steveko]

Rebuilding the carb might be a good idea but it's a pain getting it off. Also,if you decide too go that route remove the cover if it's still there on the back lower portion of the carb. This is so you can adjust the Air to Fuel ratio.Mabey it's running a bit lean.

[lsemple]

hi, I am having the same problem with my 1987 LX, exactly.


anyone solve it yet ?


it is very annoying and I am not sure if it is hard on the MPG or not.


anyways let me know !