reason not to use lucas.

[lostforawhile]

very good test showing what really happens to oil when you use lucas in your tranny or engine. yea the little things in the stores show the oil climbing, but thats not the entire story. this test and article makes a lot os sense if you read the entire thing. this is done by a private site about oil, not sponsored by any kind of oil company.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

[Bass Man]

I wonder how any other brand additive does with the same test?? I'm glad I saw this thread before buy some additives...

[HondaBoy]

wow, this really sheds light on lucas. you know i never thought about it not having anti foaming agents. but now that i see this, my opinion is very changed. good find man.

[blackcougar141]

Hell yeah....a great find! I was gonna use the additive in my car, but since i've seen this.....forget it!!!

[2oodoor]

interesting
on one hand you have the trucking industry that uses lucas products heavily, they get serviced on a schedule and go for hundreds of thousands of miles
on the opposing hand, another endorser I respect, BOB the oil guru, well "his" site was used anyway. It makes sense although I never saw luca aeriate like that (I don't doubt it could though) Lucas is very arormatic, as if it had some sort of solvent in it, solvent mixes with air which barring any scientific explanations, IMO makes it a solvent. But then come to think of it so it 90w dino, you can smell a couple of drops of it spilled inside your car... for months. Lucas also makes a synthetic product to match or compete with their own "original" oil stabilzer.
I use Lucas products occasionally, but do not believe in snake oils. You are always better off using a top quality lubricant to begin with.

tip, never try to pour lucas in the wind, sprays like silly string. ( could be the makings of a song there, where is Jim Croce?) It really reminded me of stp. If you have a sludgy motor or mix brands of oils a lot, or do not know the complete history of your motor, I would not advise using these products. They can gather the suspended debris in the motor and become one big glob in your oil pan, eventually stopping up the oil pickup tube. I would say if you use it , use is wisely and do not skip out on your oil changes.

[2ndGenGuy]

Wonder if it acts any differently at operating temperature or with different sized gears. Since these gears are much smaller than what's in your engine, there's a good chance that the smaller teeth are putting the small air bubbles in the oil causing the foaming. Larger gears of the various components in your car might not do that depending on how the anti-foaming agents are forumulated, I imagine...

I wouldn't completely write something off due to just one review. Though it's always good to be skeptical of additives that make good products magically work better.

[2oodoor]

excellant point 2NdGen
modern oils are designed to suspend particles and the term hi detergent comes to mind. Along with cupping and whipping in that device... makes me wonder as well. It was supposed to be a controlled test, comparison test at that. There are two properties that can cause the foaming I guess, the compound and the device. If you put an orifice inline you could very well force the foaming, pour your beer down the side of the glass... lol
LOstforawhile, did you have an opinion about Lucas or previous experiences with Lucas before you saw this? Like I said, I don't thrive on using it but I do use some of the products from time to time. I find it interesting this is the first negaitve exposure I have ever seen about it.

[Bass Man]

That is why he did it with 2 oils at the same time... It didn't foam before the stabilizer.

[zAFW]

So what exactly does it mean when it's foaming up like that? More heat? Damages gears?

This mechanic I trust had me use a bottle of Lucas as well as 2 quarts of 20w50 oil since white smoke was coming out of my car like crazy. Told me that the stuff will make it stop the white smoke, which does.

The seals and stuff in the engine are so worn out I guess, I don't know, never really handled engine/tran related problems.

Though with that stuff in my car I don't see it heat up more than usual but I can't say if the gears or whatever are being damaged.

[Vanilla Sky]

I did have an opinion prior to seeing this a few years back, and that was to stay away.

I'm with 2ndgen, though. I want to see this at temp.

[lostforawhile]

excellant point 2NdGen
modern oils are designed to suspend particles and the term hi detergent comes to mind. Along with cupping and whipping in that device... makes me wonder as well. It was supposed to be a controlled test, comparison test at that. There are two properties that can cause the foaming I guess, the compound and the device. If you put an orifice inline you could very well force the foaming, pour your beer down the side of the glass... lol
LOstforawhile, did you have an opinion about Lucas or previous experiences with Lucas before you saw this? Like I said, I don't thrive on using it but I do use some of the products from time to time. I find it interesting this is the first negaitve exposure I have ever seen about it.
i've heard of the same thing before. it wouldn't matter what type of gears you use they are going to whip it up the same. the damage is caused when foam is created,this replaces the oil with air. air does not do the same thing as oil. for a note if you overfill your engine, the crank does this to your motor oil too. same reason if you overfill it it starts burning oil like crazy, the oil gets whipped up,then it can be eaisily pulled through the oil vapor seperator. if you think those gears are too small,he brings up a good point, look at the inside of an oil pump, it works on the same principle as gears,except it squeezes the oil through a rotor to force it's pressure to increase. that type of foamed up oil will drop your oil pressure. i have had people who know engines very well tel me for years unless it's a piece of crap, burning like a quart every four miles, then use a good oil and filter and don't add shit to it. another thing people forget,lucas is an old schol stuff, back when it was created engines and motor oils were a lot different then they are now.

[lostforawhile]

So what exactly does it mean when it's foaming up like that? More heat? Damages gears?

This mechanic I trust had me use a bottle of Lucas as well as 2 quarts of 20w50 oil since white smoke was coming out of my car like crazy. Told me that the stuff will make it stop the white smoke, which does.

The seals and stuff in the engine are so worn out I guess, I don't know, never really handled engine/tran related problems.

Though with that stuff in my car I don't see it heat up more than usual but I can't say if the gears or whatever are being damaged.with it burning oil like that it really doesn't matter i guess, thats why they make that stuff that makes your oil look like tar lol. it's supposed to be until you can fix it.

[Tdurr]

If you have strong arms and 10 min on your hands, go into a store that has the lil lucas oil gear thing for display and spin that. It starts to foam up also. I've done this in a few diff stores and will not ever use it in my personal car or recommend it to anyone. Just like fram oil filters.

[lostforawhile]

If you have strong arms and 10 min on your hands, go into a store that has the lil lucas oil gear thing for display and spin that. It starts to foam up also. I've done this in a few diff stores and will not ever use it in my personal car or recommend it to anyone. Just like fram oil filters.yea and thats just straight lucas lol i don't think it has oil in it eithier imagine what it's doing to your oil

[Tdurr]

lol really? i didnt kno that. But i showed my friend and he was like OMG I use to like that stuff..... haha

[zAFW]

i've heard of the same thing before. it wouldn't matter what type of gears you use they are going to whip it up the same. the damage is caused when foam is created,this replaces the oil with air. air does not do the same thing as oil. for a note if you overfill your engine, the crank does this to your motor oil too. same reason if you overfill it it starts burning oil like crazy, the oil gets whipped up,then it can be eaisily pulled through the oil vapor seperator. if you think those gears are too small,he brings up a good point, look at the inside of an oil pump, it works on the same principle as gears,except it squeezes the oil through a rotor to force it's pressure to increase. that type of foamed up oil will drop your oil pressure. i have had people who know engines very well tel me for years unless it's a piece of crap, burning like a quart every four miles, then use a good oil and filter and don't add shit to it. another thing people forget,lucas is an old schol stuff, back when it was created engines and motor oils were a lot different then they are now.


with it burning oil like that it really doesn't matter i guess, thats why they make that stuff that makes your oil look like tar lol. it's supposed to be until you can fix it.


Oohhh, that makes a LOT of sense. Just goes to show that one should never use an oil additives in the first place. Right?

[lostforawhile]

Oohhh, that makes a LOT of sense. Just goes to show that one should never use an oil additives in the first place. Right?right,unless you are trying to keep an engine alive until it completly dies. on a good engine modern oils are so good you just don't need it.

[2oodoor]

right,unless you are trying to keep an engine alive until it completly dies. on a good engine modern oils are so good you just don't need it.

precisely because it works just like it says it does

which is why I used it in the LX before I fixed the oil pump, and I used it in the DX tranny until I know if it is going to leak out from the yoke seal and shifter.

If you have top shape equipment, don't use it

[lostforawhile]

precisely because it works just like it says it does

which is why I used it in the LX before I fixed the oil pump, and I used it in the DX tranny until I know if it is going to leak out from the yoke seal and shifter.

If you have top shape equipment, don't use itwasn't their logo keep that engine alive? it should have been keep that smoke belching rattling knocking piece of shit alive until you tow it to the junkyard, good engines need not apply

[2oodoor]

:werd:

[Dr_Snooz]

Wouldn't a better test be to put it in your engine as directed, run down the freeway good and hard, then drain it out to see if it's white?

I used it in my miserable German car once. My only real concern was that it would make the oil too heavy and slow to pump through all the journals and channels. I think having overly goopy oil at startup would be a real problem.

I only run Mobil1 now though.

[Ichiban]

Hey, a good discussion!

I've never relied on oil additives unless specified by the manufacturer. Some examples that come to mind are detergent packages, that GM posi gear oil additive crap, and SCA's that reduce coolant cavitation damage to diesel engine cylinder liners. I also know that my ATV (a Honda as well!) demands that engine oil NOT have "energy conserving" at the bottom of the API service label (the round thing on the back of the bottle). Apparently the friction modifiers in the energy conserving oil will destroy the clutches, which run in the engine oil bath.

In all honesty, oil is responsible for a few things, which it already does quite well to an extent. Oil needs to separate bearing surfaces, provide cooling, dissolve and suspend contaminants (cleaning), and prevent corrosion and avoid oxidation. Detergent additives, especially in API C rated (diesel) are responsible for dissolving carbon and holding it suspended in the oil supply. Other additives increase the oils resistance to oxidation, increase the viscosity index (basically help the oil maintain a more constant viscosity over a range of temperatures), increase film strength and reduce fluid friction.

Gear oils contain corrosion inhibitors, and extreme pressure (EP) additives to help the oil put up with with the low speed/high torque situations common in gear drives. I believe they contain anti-foaming, anti-cavitation and tackifying additives as well. (Tackifying additives make the oil sticky, reducing run-off)

So, lubricating oils are already a careful blend of base oils and additives created to suit a specific purpose. I really don't believe you can make them much better by adding a can of stringy thick goo. I have used Wynns stop-smoke once, and it stopped the leaky valve guides for about 10 minutes, then smoke again. Though I have heard of trucking companies and even my machine shop instructor using high dollar additives in final drives, and lathe and milling machine geartrains.

The only oil trick I have personal experience with is to use C (diesel) engine oil to clean deposits from inside the crankcase. Diesel oil contains way more detergents than S (gasoline) rated oil, and will clean the crankcase spotless. It still isn't a remedy for not changing your oil on time.

If the factory recommended grade of oil isn't allowing excessive wear (which you won't know about unless you rebuild your engine frequently) than using high dollar oil or additives does you absolutely no good. The cheapest oil that satisfies the engines requirements is sufficient.

In regards to the oil foaming, anytime I check the transmission, axle or transfer case oil level in my truck, it's foamed. Let it sit for a few hours, no foam. And no, it's not all full of water.

[Hauntd ca3]

when i was at tech doing my pre trade course
we were told that additives are a waste of time and in most cases reduce the lube qualities of oil
i only use good oil and have no reason to believe that an additive will improve what it does.
the oil companies spend millions developing oils to keep up with the demands of modern motors that evolve on almost a weekly basis and they seem to do the job well.
i mean i just striped down a toyota 3vfe with 250,000 km on the clock and it was brand new inside almost.
the bores still had honing marks and the bearings were perfect.
thats gotta say alot for modern oils and after seeing that why would anyone put additives in the oil that will prob stuff it.
havnt met another mechanic yet that would use an additive for just that reason

[2ndGenGuy]

In regards to the oil foaming, anytime I check the transmission, axle or transfer case oil level in my truck, it's foamed. Let it sit for a few hours, no foam. And no, it's not all full of water.

You know, now that you mention it, I swear I've seen the foamy diff oil before. In my Bronco II, after a hard day of wheelin, I brought it home and decided to change all the fluids. Pretty sure my gear oil was all foamy too.

I don't use the Lucas stuff, and I never really use additives. But there is a chance that this stuff does work well. Oil manufacturers don't just add in additives to make their stuff work perfect, they have costs to consider too. Generally, that means they have to make the oils good enough to compete with competitors, and usually cut costs here and there.

While modern oils are good, that doesn't mean that there's not room for improvement.

The other thing with this comparison test is that they didn't use their control properly. The whole point of having the oils side by side is to see what difference the Lucas additive makes. Well this guy really botched the experiment, because there are too many variables.

What you're supposed to do in a test like this is have the same oil side by side. One with Lucas, and one without. How do you know that other oil would NOT have foamed with the additive in it? They were different oils and that completely fucks this test up.

[Civic Accord Honda]

You know, now that you mention it, I swear I've seen the foamy diff oil before. In my Bronco II, after a hard day of wheelin, I brought it home and decided to change all the fluids. Pretty sure my gear oil was all foamy too.

I don't use the Lucas stuff, and I never really use additives. But there is a chance that this stuff does work well. Oil manufacturers don't just add in additives to make their stuff work perfect, they have costs to consider too. Generally, that means they have to make the oils good enough to compete with competitors, and usually cut costs here and there.

While modern oils are good, that doesn't mean that there's not room for improvement.

The other thing with this comparison test is that they didn't use their control properly. The whole point of having the oils side by side is to see what difference the Lucas additive makes. Well this guy really botched the experiment, because there are too many variables.

What you're supposed to do in a test like this is have the same oil side by side. One with Lucas, and one without. How do you know that other oil would NOT have foamed with the additive in it? They were different oils and that completely fucks this test up.

[headbanger]

yeah i run lucas at every oil change and now my accord is smokin at start up like a freight train.i think im going to have to replace valve seals.this time im using nothing but royal purple.:gun:

[Tdurr]

yeah i run lucas at every oil change and now my accord is smokin at start up like a freight train.i think im going to have to replace valve seals.this time im using nothing but royal purple.:gun:

Make sure u use it after 2500miles. If u use synthetic too soon the engine wont break in properly.

[Ichiban]

.

The other thing with this comparison test is that they didn't use their control properly. The whole point of having the oils side by side is to see what difference the Lucas additive makes. Well this guy really botched the experiment, because there are too many variables.

What you're supposed to do in a test like this is have the same oil side by side. One with Lucas, and one without. How do you know that other oil would NOT have foamed with the additive in it? They were different oils and that completely fucks this test up.

I realized that just after I posted. I was going to point that out but never got around to it. Experiment semi-worthless.

[lostforawhile]

oh i forgot to mention never never use the lucas power steering stop leak on these cars!!! DON'T DO IT!!! i had a very small rack leak,nothing major,well i decided to try the lucas to stop it, yea stopped it for a week, after that i had fluid pouring out of the rack,the pump,the speed sensor,and everywhere else there was a seal. it claims to work with all power steering fluid,WRONG!! it swells the seals is how it stops the leak,same with most stop leak products, well this destroys the honda seals in the car. same thing that adding regular PS fluid does to them. just much worse. I ended up replacing the rack,rebuilding the pump,found a way to fix the speed sensor, instant O ring in a tube is great! had to flush the entire PS system to get the shit out. i talked to a lucas rep at the big car show here, he couldn't believe it,imagine that. he said it must have just developed a leak. I aked him whens the last time everything on ta car went from leak free to all leaking in a week? the small leak on one side was all i had,after the lucas had been in there for a week,it was leaking out both ends as well as the pump spewing fluid and the speed sensor. when i took the pump apart,the seals had been turned into tar like goo. even the pump shaft seal. new one was a timken brand seal,so i will see how it holds up.