car no start....

[StUpiD8000]

ok...were do I start...

car died about 4 years ago..timing belt broke...I didnt care at the time, I had two other cars to drive. and no money to fix the accord...well..I got money and started to fix it now....heres a list of what i did so far

1st...checked compression and I cant remember right now...but nothing was under 100,.so..no bent valves right? I replace the water pump, timing belt, timing belt tensioner, main relay, new plugs, plug wires, cap and rotor and rebuild the dizzy with the new GM springs I heard about on here....I used a dizzy I found at a yard on a car with 90k miles...no brown dust...new vacuum advance and new pickup with harness.....ok...so the car sat in my buddy's garage for the few years....no rats and crap got in it and i knew the fuel went bad so I drained it and we jumperd the fuel pump to make sure the old fuel was out...even added new gas and ran that through it...I ran it out at the line on the fuel filter and after all the fuel was out I put a new fuel filter in it...make sure I had presser at the fuel rail...not with a gauge tho...ok...now I got to start and nothing....cranks but will not start. I'm lost and double and triple checked everything I did. I think I have a few more new things but cant remember right now. I did look at the plugs after all the trying to start and numbers 1 & 3 were wet and smelled of old gas still...like paint thinner...2 & 4 looked like they should.


Is there any way I can test the injector's and make sure they are not stuck open? I did look around at how to test them and all the test's have the car running..lol....not going to work for me

any help with this would be great

[Hauntd ca3]

you check for spark?
if you got fuel at the rail and you got fuel to at least 2 cylinders that you know of
you should be able to get some sort of life unless you have no spark,the timing is waaayyyy out or not nuff compression.
check those out and see how you go
think some one here said bout 125psi is minimum comp
and no more than 10% diff between highest and lowest cylinder

[ghettogeddy]

you check for spark?
if you got fuel at the rail and you got fuel to at least 2 cylinders that you know of
you should be able to get some sort of life unless you have no spark,the timing is waaayyyy out or not nuff compression.
check those out and see how you go
think some one here said bout 125psi is minimum comp
and no more than 10% diff between highest and lowest cylinder

i think most every one sits at about 100

[A18A]

im pretty sure its supposed to be around 175. 100psi is pretty low

[ghettogeddy]

im pretty sure its supposed to be around 175. 100psi is pretty low

oh i thought everyone sat at about 100 lol

[MessyHonda]

my compression sucks


i have 175-125-170-135.....i need to adjust my valve and do a wet test

[Dr_Snooz]

I replaced my engine when compression in one cylinder got to 119. Per the Honda manual, 178 is new, 135 is the service limit and no more than 10% differential between cylinders. I'd start with another compression test to be sure it isn't the valves.

To check the injectors, you should be able to listen for clicking with a stethoscope even if all you can do is crank it over. You can also check the resistance between the injector leads. It should be between 1.5 and 2.5 ohms.

Hope that helps.

[greentee76]

Guys.. you have to remember that he is doing a compression test on a cold engine so his numbers are going to be lower than with a warmed up engine.

Like Hauntd said... need to check for spark.

[BITESIZE]

I would take the injectors out and clean them or even replace them.

[StUpiD8000]

ya..I was going to just say..wouldn't they be lower on a cold engine. anyone know would be ok for cold?...I hope I dont have bet valves...blarg...I did take the valve cover off and spin th cam with belt off...no odd noises and nothing odd on the stems that I could kinda see

[Bass Man]

Ok. You rebuilt the dizzy, and what it sounds like to me, is that you got it 180* out... try going 180* on the dizzy.

I have 217,000 miles and 150lbs of compression with the greatest leap of 1%.

[turabaka]

I didn't think you could put the dizzy bag in being 180 degrees out. Isn't there something stopping you from doing that?

[Dr_Snooz]

Guys.. you have to remember that he is doing a compression test on a cold engine so his numbers are going to be lower than with a warmed up engine.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that.

[StUpiD8000]

ya...the end of the dizzy has a tapper on the gear thing thats not a gear so you don't do that...and I did even think of that before I saw the tapper.....and I have cleaned the injector's up really good...new o-rings..blah...just thinking one or two might be stuck...imma see what the resistance is on them tomorrow...and I know I'm getting spark on two of the plugs because I shocked myself with them...whoops...not sure why two would fire and not all 4....Ill be sure and check them all anyways with a screw driver tomorrow also.....Thx for the help so far guys

[Hauntd ca3]

even tho you got shocked by the lead the spark may not be gettin to the plug.
make sure the ends of the leads are nice and clean inside and out otherwise the spark can just jump out the side to the head and not to the plug.
make sure the plugs are claen and the electrodes arent all eatn away.

[Bass Man]

That is some smart engineering!! I thought I would throw that out there, but I'm used to small blocks and Suzuki 4 cylinders.

I can't think of anything right now.

[StUpiD8000]

ok...I have spark on all plugs...checked each plug plugged into the wires and they sparked...and cant be jumping I don't think...Im using those crane cam 11mm wires...damn there way to big....I have fuel pressure, I have the belt on and in time for sure....something I did find today is this little silver box that the book sez is the inj, resister and it should be 5-7 ohm I think it said...it was at 0 on any prong I checked....could this be my issue or do I have the wrong box? heres a pic of it..was on the drivers side fender

http://www.geocities.com/poisonfaygo/ACCORD00CRAP.txt

[StUpiD8000]

o..and found the paper I put the compression test numbers on...all at 112- 118...remember, very cold motor

[Dr_Snooz]

That looks like it. Never heard of one going out, but if it's out of spec, replace it.

[Hauntd ca3]

if it shows zero ohms its stuffed.
replace it and try again

[StUpiD8000]

were can I get one? cant find a new one anywere

[Pico]

were can I get one? cant find a new one anywere

you can see if a new is still available here majestic honda (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=2DR+LXI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=FUSE+BOX-RELAY-HORN) or try the j/y for a used one

[StUpiD8000]

ok...Im not having any luck getting the right one..Ill the yards have nothing or a few carbed accords....before I pay for a new one...can someone test theirs on a running car please and tell me what they get for ohms?? I really want to make sure I have to replace this stupid thing

[Oldblueaccord]

There alot of Honda/Acura cars that have one besides ours. Any one that runs low impedance injectors will have injector resistors. The are inline with the power to the injectors and the ECU.

I think you are checking it correctly it should have a resistance value. It just seems unlikely that all 4 are burn out in there with out other things being damaged IMHO. You could work that box open and see whats up in the maybe the plug is just bad some how.


wp

[StUpiD8000]

well Im going to the yard right now....I'm getting a few more dizzys and a hand full of injectors and injector resisters...then I have to get a new volt meter...so hopefully I will be driving this damn accord again soon....Im starting to miss a real 5-speed car..

And Oldblueaccord, The pic of the silver box. That is the injector resister right?

[StUpiD8000]

reading back...don't see I said what the injectors ever came out too...I ohm checked each one and they were all at 0ohms....is that right?

[Oldblueaccord]

1.5-2.5 ohms(injectors) resistor box should be 5-7 ohms. The odd terminal A is the power the other 4 are resistors.

I would find it very unlikely the all the resistors burnt out but if they did and passed on full current to your injectors then the killed the coils in them as well it sounds. Really be on the look out for shorts and other wierd stuff. the brn red blu yel wires come right from the ECU to the injectors. A yel/blk comes from the Main Relay to the resistor box.

The box you pictured looks like it. On some other cars I have seen Its square with cooling fins. Not sure what the rating is. I guess if you get in a jam you can make your own but I would guess the resistors need to be pretty large wattage by the size of the box.


wp

[StUpiD8000]

got lucky at the yard and got 4 new, yes new injectors and an injector resister that reads 6.x on all prongs. Car still no start. what in the hell can I be missing here. I did rebuild the dizzy with the GM springs. Do I have to change the timing with them or something?

[StUpiD8000]

also...when I crank the car backfires a lot ..it almost back fires with somewhat of a pattern to it



EDIT: I got the dizzy out and was going to test the igniter but the test the stupid Haynes said to do is junk...if not I got like 10 bad ones from the yards

[jellydoughnutt]

have you replaced the fuel filter yet? a car sitting that long will need a new one.

[StUpiD8000]

yep...and removed all old fuel

[StUpiD8000]

ok...after getting side tracked...again, Im working on the never ending accord. I ended up getting a new dizzy for the car now just to kill that possibility. still the same. How far at of time could it be and not start? I'm starting to think I might be a tooth or so off but wouldn't it still start and run like crap? I really hate the timing belt setup on this car


EDIT: one last thing..no idea if I already said this...but when I crank the 1st few cranks will backfire randomly sometimes...then just crank

[Oldblueaccord]

It will run one tooth off. I really think it will run 3 teeth retard. Dont ask how I know this. :werd:

The backfire thing means there is fuel in there so something is not to correct with the timing of the two.


How long has the car sat now? the fuel is prolly very old and the car is not going to run well when you do get it running. There is also a ground wire under a nut with the injectors that seems from info here to be very important. I would also look at the condition of the ECU under the drivers seat. If possible that it got wet it could be shot or shorted to ground etc.


wp

[Dr_Snooz]

Starting fluid will tell you very quickly whether you have a fuel or spark problem. Shoot it in the intake while cranking. If it fires up, you have a fuel problem. If not, you have a spark problem. Starting fluid is very bad for the car, but it won't take much to get you on the right track.

[l75eya]

I'm gonna throw a really basic idea out here real quick just cos nobody else has mentioned it yet;
Fuses? Did you check all the fuses in the car and under the hood? Maybe the injector fuses are blown or blew for some reason?
Just a thought.

[StUpiD8000]

It will run one tooth off. I really think it will run 3 teeth retard. Dont ask how I know this. :werd:

The backfire thing means there is fuel in there so something is not to correct with the timing of the two.


How long has the car sat now? the fuel is prolly very old and the car is not going to run well when you do get it running. There is also a ground wire under a nut with the injectors that seems from info here to be very important. I would also look at the condition of the ECU under the drivers seat. If possible that it got wet it could be shot or shorted to ground etc.


wp


I'm sure I got fuel and it is good fuel....I have completely drained the system and put in a few gallons of new fuel...and there is pressure in the rail.

and you say it might run three teeth retard..how about three teeth advanced? if I might be that way instead.


I did get a newer ECU at the yard..but just didn't think it was it. Its been in a garage most of the time, so it shouldn't have gotten wet...Ill have to say f-it and just try it I guess.



Starting fluid will tell you very quickly whether you have a fuel or spark problem. Shoot it in the intake while cranking. If it fires up, you have a fuel problem. If not, you have a spark problem. Starting fluid is very bad for the car, but it won't take much to get you on the right track.

I have tried some starting fluid the 1st few times tiring to start it. nothing different happened so I stopped with that.


I'm gonna throw a really basic idea out here real quick just cos nobody else has mentioned it yet;
Fuses? Did you check all the fuses in the car and under the hood? Maybe the injector fuses are blown or blew for some reason?
Just a thought.

sure did. When working on it I fixed a few things with the alt and after that checked all the fuses. more then a few times even.

[StUpiD8000]

lol..see. I wasnt joking when I said I have no idea what to do next on the 1st post...uber stumped

[Rendon LX-i]

its not your fuel,not your spark ,or Did your igniter on your dizzy if u got a new idk if they added that with your dizzy...you sure u have spark?

[StUpiD8000]

100% sure i do have spark. i checked a few different ways even

[88Accord-DX]

If your car is backfiring, more than likely something is off on the timing. You didn't pull that cam sprocket off the camshaft did you?

[StUpiD8000]

nope...didnt mess with any gears other then the one on the crank. from all the other stuff I've done it just has to be the timing. I just dont understand how. This is doing the same thing each time after putting the belt on 4 different times to make sure it is in time... EACH DAMN TIME...BLAARRG!!! I love...and hate my Honda

[88Accord-DX]

You might have a bad tensioner or weak spring on the tensioner. Also, make sure you don't have the wrong timing belt with too many teeth or not enough. Them parts stores are bad about giving you the wrong part.

[StUpiD8000]

ok..I give up....I'm going to sell the car if anyone is interested PM me or email me...I'm selling all my cars and getting a brand new car

[StUpiD8000]

im a retard ...car runs. still for sale tho


I was stripping down the car to part out. took off the dissy and BAM NO FUCKING ROTOR!! OMFG!!! (smacks himself HARD)


after putting one in it started right up, bit rough but it ran. I just moved it from the grass and into the driveway to work on it next weekend.

[Hauntd ca3]

dont worry
you are not the first and def not the last to do that
but yeah you would sorta feel a dick eh