The Eliminate Repetitive Questions thread!

[2drSE-i]

Alright guys, in response to the popularity of tons of new threads popping up asking the same question over and over, I though I might try my hand at summarizing a lot of the 3rd Generation Accord Performance related questions.

Engine/Transmission/Head Swaps
The only engine from other vehicles that will bolt (almost) directly in is the B20 from the JDM/EDM Accords. No Prelude or other B20 motor will fit, as these motors lean the opposite directions and you must use different mounts. To use this motor, you must come up with a rear transmission mount (some call this a bracket, most of the time it will come with the motor in question).
Recently, there has been a lot of discussion over the ease at which you can come up with one of these B20 motors. I’m confident that if you look hard enough (NZ is a good place to start looking) you can find one.

B16, B18A/B, B18C1/5, B20Z/B…etc
These will require either custom fabricated mounts, axles, and shift linkage. Place Racing used to make a kit for us, they no longer do. Occasionally a set of these will pop up for sale, but without the shift linkage or axles. Legend_master came up with a solution for the axle crisis, and you can see his thread here:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49155

H22/F22
Has been done, but it requires extensive modification. I trust that if your going to do this, you can do your own research.

K20/24
Hasn’t been done, but it will take TONS of modifications as well.


Transmission Swaps
No transmission will bolt directly onto the A-Series, BT or BS motors. If you have good fabrication or deep pockets, get an adapter plate to run other transmissions.

Head Swaps
There is only two heads that bolt directly onto the A20 Block.(Known heads) These include the A18 and the A20 heads. The The A18 Head will bump up your compression a bit, but the problem with the A18 head is the port spacing is pretty weird. What you would gain in compression you would probably lose in Volumetric efficiency.

Exhaust
Headers
Headers readily available are down to PaceSetter. These are decent, the gaskets are a little crappy and they don’t use a flex joint, so use at your own discretion, but they are a decent performance header, bang for buck for sure. Heres the Header write-up thread:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37261
Exhaust Systems
These too are down to just Pacesetter (or Monza, whatever you wanna call it). This, again is decent. A lot of people complain because the muffler is crappy, but all in all it’s a cheap price for decently made mandrel bent piping, so cut the muffler off and get something else welded in its place.
Also, from what I’m to understand, 5th Gen Prelude exhaust systems work pretty well. Heres the thread on that:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53789&highlight=prelude+exhaust
Look to about the 9th post, everyone else seemed to think that it wouldn’t work until some1 said they were using it.

Intake
Intake Manifolds
Intake manifolds for the B16/B18 work pretty well, the ports line up well and all you really need to do is drill a couple of extra holes for this to work. Heres the thread on that:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49453
Cold Air Intakes
There are lots of differing opinions on cold air intakes. True Cold air intakes work best because they pull air in from around the wheel well, which is a whole lot colder than the air that short ram intakes draw in from the engine bay. The problem with cold air intakes is that in the event of rain, you can drive through large puddles and suck water into your motor, causing bent rods (been there, done that, spent 1200 bucks…) or broken valves, cracked pistons, etc. This can easily be addressed with an Air Bypass Valve (AEM sells great ones for around 40 bucks, honestly a really good investment looking back….now I just run a short ram lol).
Anywho, CAI’s that fit our cars.
90-93 Integra
90-97 Accord
92-95 Civic

All of these need to be slightly modified. If you can work your way around with a screwdriver and a hacksaw, you’ll be OK.
OR you could make your own! This also has some pretty good install tips for the other ones.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166

Engine Internal/External
Cam Gears
Golden Eagle has done a couple of group buys on these, your best bet is to pick one up from a member parting out his (or her, we can’t discriminate :-D) stuff. Other than that, you can have one custom made.
Thread:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57336
Underdrive Pulleys
Custom only….sorry guys.
Accessories/Alternator
You can always free up a few horsies (and I mean a few…you’ll probably see bigger gains from dumping the weight rather than the parasitic loss..) by dumping A/C, Power Steering, Cruise Control. For Cruise and A/C, its pretty simple…just unbolt everything. Power steering is a larger issue. You either need to source a manual steering rack, or take some other route. Check post # 22 of this thread. It may be more difficult than you think.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58172&highlight=manual+steering+rack
As for converting a power steering rack to a manual, check this thread:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63452&highlight=manual+steering+rack

As for alternators, I know I have read that 4th Gen Alternators bolt up to our cars with very little modification. When I went to search for the thread, I couldn’t find it. I would be more than happy to add this information if someone else could provide it.

Rods
Stock rods are decent, but don’t hold up much past the stock redline. If you want something a little beefier, you may want to get some custom ones made. That option is actually pretty expensive, so there is a couple of alternatives.
B18A/B Rods actually work great in our cars! The only problem that you will have with this is that the wrist pin is 21mm as compared to our 20mm wrist pins. You will have to have custom pistons made, or come up with some other pistons that will work in our blocks. If you are this savvy, I trust that you can do a little research.
Pistons
Custom made are pretty much all that’s available here. You can get some stock replacement pistons with slight overbores, but your best bet is to just to have some forged ones made, such as Diamond Racing, or Wiseco…etc. Again, if your this savvy I trust you can do a little bit of research.
Crankshaft
Stock or custom made. This would be pretty expensive, if your looking to upgrade the stock crank, have it knife edged and balanced.
Valve Train
Not much available here. Stock valve springs are good to the stock red line, but not much after that. A18 Dual valve springs and retainers (84-87 Prelude, Dual Carbs) are good to about 7200 RPM.
As for Cams, you can pick up one from Delta, which is a stock cam reground, for around 200 bucks. Look here for the thread on Cams:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37583
Rocker Arms
Stock or custom made…our stock pieces are OK, but not great.
Valves
Stock or custom made. Stock valves should be fine, just do a good 3 or 5 angled valve job.

Headwork
A good port and polish, deburr, and valve job will definitely liven up your A20 head. Once you get a header and a B Series intake manifold on it, it’s a pretty good idea to have the head port matched, as this will definitely see some power gains.


Continued to next post

[2drSE-i]

PGMFI vs. Carb
Almost everyone on this site, with the exception of a few true carb guys, Says that the easiest way to make power on a carb motor is to swap to PGMFI. Well, a TON of power can be made with carbs. Special Thanks to roodoo2 and Legend_master for writing this up on carbs:




-Carbed Accord Blues? Black Box got you seeing spaghetti in your sleep? Tired of runaway engine idle speeds and you need an exorcist for your carb?

1. Carburetor: You must first convert that OEM carb to something that provides much better performance and drive ability. A good choice is a Weber 32/36 progressive carb conversion. Weber also sold a patent to Holley and the same carb is available as a Holley 5200 series. You can get a complete conversion kit from Carburation.com (http://www.carburetion.com/Weber/weber.htm), or you can just get the adapter kit and find the Weber or Holley carb on dozens of OEM applications.
Here is a list of cars that came with the needed carburetor
*Ford Pinto
*Mustang II
*Capri Europe
*Ranger trucks with 2,0, 2,3 in line 4 cyl
*Some 2.8 liter V6
*GM late seventies Vega, Monza, Sunbird... Four cyl applications.

There were a lot of Weber kits sold during the 80s to convert Asian carbed cars that developed carb problem but were too expensive (or difficult) to repair. That said, there are a lot of less expensive options to getting a progressive Weber than buying a new complete kit. All jet kits sold for Weber 32/36 will work on all of these plus the Holley 5200 series carbs.
Another option is to go for the 38/38 Weber which is not progressive but will fit right on your Weber adapter. You will get much more performance from this carb but the sacrifice is less economy and a bit harder to tune for multiple driving styles. Adapting to these carbs lets you do away with a box full of OEM carb control hardware, vacuum connections and hoses, and the dreaded black box. The Weber 32/36 is very close to the OEM Honda carb in size but it offers a wider range of performance choices with the availability of jetting kits, and most people report an immediate improvement in performance.

2. Converting to EFi: You can also convert to fuel injection, to get a little more power and driveability. Here is a great write up for that (http://www.geocities.com/carotman/howto/eficonv/EFIconversion.htm)

3. Dual Sidedraft SU Carbs: (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61598)
this an interesting setup by lostforawhile, read his threads for more info..

4. Quad Carbs (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60634&highlight=fuel+pump+same)
Zufer did these, but there is no write-up.

Usefull links
General Performance (http://www.3geez.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
Engine swap (http://www.3geez.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7) (non are readily available, and I would suggest building the A20).


Also if anybody wants to do a write up on carb tricks, or post some links to carb performance threads I will put it in the carb info.


As for fuel Injection, there is limited availability on tuning. You must either use a standalone setup, which I will not talk about because again, if your this good you don’t need me, or convert to OBD-1 (or 2, but no one has done that yet.)
Converting to OBD-1 has been done a few times by a few members. Heres a good how-to guide on how to do this:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62375&highlight=definitive+guide


And that’s really all I’ve got as far as this whole performance thing goes. Rjudgey did a pretty good write-up on how to build a good performance based A20 motor, check this thread for some bad-ass advice:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=809422&postcount=29

If anyone has anything to add, go nuts and post it up in this thread!
By the by, before posting this thread i was not aware that our forum had a 10,000 Character limit haha.

[Civic Accord Honda]

someone needs to sticky this

[2drSE-i]

the thread title should be change to Reduce rather than eliminate...we wont ever be able to stop people from asking the same shit...

[A18A]

honestly, i think people will still make a new thread before reading any of the stickies. i reckon this should be a "READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST" thread.. and if they make a new thread asking questions which have already been answered in this thread, then they should have their ability to post a new thread in this section removed for a few days lol. I think if nothing happens, what it's gonna do is clog up the performance section with many noob questions, so that the people who actually do search, will have a difficult time sifting through all the threads before finding a proper answer. i don't think the current "Read This First, Forum Rules" thread seems to do much, since people go ahead and just make a new thread without even bothering to search, and no one gets warned or whatever

if this post lacks sense, it's cause i'm up at 3am, bored off my arse and tired.

[forrest89sei]

How about we talk to Joe and or the other mods and see if theres anyway right after a member signs up, it Auto directs them to this sticky?

[ghettogeddy]

honestly, i think people will still make a new thread before reading any of the stickies. i reckon this should be a "READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST" thread.. and if they make a new thread asking questions which have already been answered in this thread, then they should have their ability to post a new thread in this section removed for a few days lol. I think if nothing happens, what it's gonna do is clog up the performance section with many noob questions, so that the people who actually do search, will have a difficult time sifting through all the threads before finding a proper answer. i don't think the current "Read This First, Forum Rules" thread seems to do much, since people go ahead and just make a new thread without even bothering to search, and no one gets warned or whatever

if this post lacks sense, it's cause i'm up at 3am, bored off my arse and tired.

no makes total scenes
like i said in a previous post
if i were a mod 90% of those noob question threads would be locked in a heartbeat and deleted within a day and a message sent to the topic starer saying to read this sticky

but sadly unlike most forums they dont revolve mods here like they should i say out with the old in with the new

[2drSE-i]

but sadly unlike most forums they dont revolve mods here like they should i say out with the old in with the new

haha um ...:inout:

[2oodoor]

that is an idea, vent out by just shotgunning some repetitive info :gun:

:wave:

[2drSE-i]

that is an idea, vent out by just shotgunning some repetitive info :gun:

:wave:

i woudl still much rather give them repetitive information than just saying
"Search search search search search...." etc. Or posting a thread in a private forum about members who keep posting new threads over the same shit. At least this way we can point them to one thread rather than having to post 20 links...

[Nafs Asdf]

Great post, I'd like to have all the same info for B20A's tho... For us lucky ones who have one without having to swap it in. ;)

[2oodoor]

i woudl still much rather give them repetitive information than just saying
"Search search search search search...." etc. Or posting a thread in a private forum about members who keep posting new threads over the same shit. At least this way we can point them to one thread rather than having to post 20 links...

I am agreeing with you in a sense. This has been done before, and has been discussed. As well, even suggesting that people keep the titles to their threads on the topic so that when searching, we can find the topic.. like this"OMG. guess what happened" and it turns out to be a great thread about ball joints.. never to be found in a search without eye drops being involved. BUT some people think the whole idea of organization and change is being anal and dictating someone's right to speak freely. There was a thread on PP on 3rd gen, sticky on that topic and I was amazed at the negative response from mods over there.
Im already jacking your information thread , sorry

[2drSE-i]

its all good, it will be cleaned up if they actually decide to sticky it. Your right though, the subects have gotten way off topic. Not that it matters though because we have new members flat out saying "im too lazy to search" so they arent using the function anyway. (you can click to search within the thread as well, in advanced.)

Anyway, i did kinda over react, so im sorry.

[forrest89sei]

Bah it's ok your giving good info.

On The mod thing, we have good mods and they act when they have to, I've they closed every thread that someone asked a question that we already knew, it would piss people off and give our forum a bad rep, the only thing that I think needs to happen is the mod's who haven't logged on in years which we have a couple, should be replaced

[2ndGenGuy]

I'm not so sure ES, ET, and EZ heads will bolt onto an A20 or A18...

[2drSE-i]

i read somewhere they did. Removed

[ghettogeddy]

so i wasent saying our mods are doing a bad job but most are not on as much as some of us are

i think it should be a mandatory lesson to learn how to use the search button before postin g
like at cb7tuner they have a whole noob section were you have to post at least 20 post in order to even post in the actual threads

and i know we dont want to be like every other forum out there but some things like that can be altered to be our own

[greentee76]

This is good info and I thank you 2drSE-i for compiling it. These performance questions have definative and quick answers. However my concern about some kind of a waiting period for newbies to post is that often driveability and other problems do not have these kind of pat answers. I use the search constantly and yet have not solved my smoking issue.
Sometimes in situations like this it really helps to get someone elses opinion and be able to brainstorm back and forth.
This site is THE 3rd gen resource and I would hate to see someone with genuine interest get put off by not being able to ask a question.

I also realize that I am still really a newbie and therefore my opinion doesn't carry as much weight, but I'm here every weekday 2-3 hours as I want to glean as much knowledge as possible.

Just my 2 cents...

[ghettogeddy]

This is good info and I thank you 2drSE-i for compiling it. These performance questions have definative and quick answers. However my concern about some kind of a waiting period for newbies to post is that often driveability and other problems do not have these kind of pat answers. I use the search constantly and yet have not solved my smoking issue.
Sometimes in situations like this it really helps to get someone elses opinion and be able to brainstorm back and forth.
This site is THE 3rd gen resource and I would hate to see someone with genuine interest get put off by not being able to ask a question.

I also realize that I am still really a newbie and therefore my opinion doesn't carry as much weight, but I'm here every weekday 2-3 hours as I want to glean as much knowledge as possible.

Just my 2 cents...
well when you have a general prob with your car most will not have a hard time answering the question
but when its 5 threads a week asking what motor will fit then its just annoying

[2drSE-i]

no problem, didnt take much time at all to compile really. I agree with you, limiting members to a certain section kinda sucks. A lot people come to this forum because their car needs help, and they need to be able to get it. What sucks about this is that they dont look in the FAQs section first, or even do an advanced search of that section of the forum, they usually just post a new thread.

[2oodoor]

on the topic of repetitive questions, imagine a vehicle with record sales for years, F-150 or Civic exclusive. Those forums are at nauseum, particulary one I mentioned on another thread. That one makes our RQ's look like an annoying housefly compared to a swarm of blow flys on a cow patty.

[ghettogeddy]

on the topic of repetitive questions, imagine a vehicle with record sales for years, F-150 or Civic exclusive. Those forums are at nauseum, particulary one I mentioned on another thread. That one makes our RQ's look like an annoying housefly compared to a swarm of blow flys on a cow patty.

ya and im sure all there old members have the same compliant lol
lets control it now then have a bunch of blow flys flying around here

[2drSE-i]

on the topic of repetitive questions, imagine a vehicle with record sales for years, F-150 or Civic exclusive. Those forums are at nauseum, particulary one I mentioned on another thread. That one makes our RQ's look like an annoying housefly compared to a swarm of blow flys on a cow patty.


hell just look in any part of honda-tech. Those guys ask the same questions at least 3 times in the first page of any particular section.

[snoopyloopy]

on another forum once upon a time, i got seriously tired of all the repetitive posts. so i made a thread with each topic and a link to every thread on each topic, and would update it from time to time. now obviously, that board was not as big as this one is. but anyway, maybe someone bored enough could do the same thing here and maybe not put a link to every thread on a topic, but at least a link to some of the biggest and most informative threads on each topic. naturally, it didn't completely reduce all repetitive posts. but it did lower them quite a bit and when they did pop up, they were usually directed to my index thread. so idk, who has nothing to do w/ there day any time soon?

[2drSE-i]

isnt that kinda what this is?

[lostforawhile]

ok whats this i hear about you can flip your lid? LOL JK, good writeup

[turabaka]

I've noticed that a lot of new members completely disregard the faq and how-to sections. When I first got here that's the first place I went, since it has the most information on what most of the newbies are asking about. I mean a little commons sense goes a long way. If you want to know "how-to" do something then it's probably in the fucking how-to section.

[2oodoor]

sigh, 2drSE-i..thread<> hopefully your prediction prevails :)

Lost, that was hilarious, it took me second but it hit me.. LMAO so true

Turabaka, if only all noobs were as good as you were...I mean that in a nice way. there have been some good noobs in the past months, real noobs hahaa , not rejects from other forums, trolls, or poser teasers...or people that don't listen or read worth a shit, they don't even deserve noob status, lol

[Nafs Asdf]

Do I get noob status? :D

[snoopyloopy]

lol no, don't think you do. and i like how dsmtalk.com does it. they have one section where noobs can be noobs, but the rest of the board in general, they better bring a flame-proof suit and they're liable to get their threads shut.

[2oodoor]

Do I get noob status? :D

delete post



hahahahahaaa , no seriously, aahhhhahahaa, no seriously

I guess you were, since you're in the lands of the double cams:)

[Civic Accord Honda]

i remember when i was a n00b :)
and lost i was like wut... when i read your fliped lid post i was like zomg.. he dident know that LOL

[Dr_Snooz]

Thanks for this thread! It's a really good write up. As a noob myself, it helps to make sense of all the terms you pros are throwing around in the performance threads.

I don't feel like I've contributed enough to the site to say how things should be run, but I'll point out that there is so much really awesome info here that it makes searching difficult. For instance, this thread discusses engine swaps. If you do a search for "engine swap," you'll get 500 hits, which seems to be search engine's maximum (ie: there's a lot more hits you aren't seeing). If you don't know that B20 is the search string to use, then you'll be searching for a long, long time.

On the other hand, if you old-timers get ticked off at all the jokers on the site and stop posting, then the cool noobs are seriously hosed. :toilet:

So please don't be angry!!

[ghettogeddy]

i remember when i was a n00b :)
and lost i was like wut... when i read your fliped lid post i was like zomg.. he dident know that LOL

your still a noob lol

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Thanks for this thread! It's a really good write up. As a noob myself, it helps to make sense of all the terms you pros are throwing around in the performance threads.

I don't feel like I've contributed enough to the site to say how things should be run, but I'll point out that there is so much really awesome info here that it makes searching difficult. For instance, this thread discusses engine swaps. If you do a search for "engine swap," you'll get 500 hits, which seems to be search engine's maximum (ie: there's a lot more hits you aren't seeing). If you don't know that B20 is the search string to use, then you'll be searching for a long, long time.

On the other hand, if you old-timers get ticked off at all the jokers on the site and stop posting, then the cool noobs are seriously hosed. :toilet:

So please don't be angry!!

That is understandable... But if we have threads like this stickied at the top of sections or something then it is very easy to find the resource, and when most of the information is in one post, which then links to important threads there won't be much need to try sifting through the search engines results.

By no means do we want to scare of new members, but it is frustrating when the same question is getting asked twice a day in seperate threads, this will help eliminate that, and therefore eliminate confused new members.

[2oodoor]

Dr_Snooz try clicking on 'advance search' then type your item to search, scroll down one block and change it to 'search titles only' instead of 'search all posts' that should cut it down some. Unfortunatley some good info is under random titles sometimes.
There is somegoo gle search too that works on the board too, I have not had to use it yet.

[snoopyloopy]

That is understandable... But if we have threads like this stickied at the top of sections or something then it is very easy to find the resource, and when most of the information is in one post, which then links to important threads there won't be much need to try sifting through the search engines results.

By no means do we want to scare of new members, but it is frustrating when the same question is getting asked twice a day in seperate threads, this will help eliminate that, and therefore eliminate confused new members.
not only that, noobs are liable to get two different answers to the exact same question which starts a whole mini-argument between old members over which way really is better too.

[turabaka]

^^ oddly enough the two different answers are usually right, and both equally as good.

[Bass Man]

I made one of these for Car Audio...

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64551

[2drSE-i]

Thanks for this thread! It's a really good write up. As a noob myself, it helps to make sense of all the terms you pros are throwing around in the performance threads.

I don't feel like I've contributed enough to the site to say how things should be run, but I'll point out that there is so much really awesome info here that it makes searching difficult. For instance, this thread discusses engine swaps. If you do a search for "engine swap," you'll get 500 hits, which seems to be search engine's maximum (ie: there's a lot more hits you aren't seeing). If you don't know that B20 is the search string to use, then you'll be searching for a long, long time.

On the other hand, if you old-timers get ticked off at all the jokers on the site and stop posting, then the cool noobs are seriously hosed. :toilet:

So please don't be angry!!


Well questions like that ARE answered in the FAQs, but i do agree that using the basic search feature is nearly useless without going advanced. I am not complaining against the search function, it is just a reflection of all the useless posts on this board :kekeke:

[ghettogeddy]

Well questions like that ARE answered in the FAQs, but i do agree that using the basic search feature is nearly useless without going advanced. I am not complaining against the search function, it is just a reflection of all the useless posts on this board :kekeke:

witch should be gone through and eather locked or deleted its basic board maintenance that dosent happen to often

[ghettogeddy]

found this at www.elantraclub.com

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9442/bmrules2gu2il3.gif

[cygnus x-1]

Being a Preluder I hang out on PreludePower.com more than here. I can say for certain that 3geez is much more useful for technical information than PP is. Information here is organized much better than over there. A20A1 did a TON of work in the carb section and it helped me immensely when I was setting up my Weber. Some of the sticky threads could use some maintenance but really they're not all that bad. The first post in this thread was a very good synopsis though.

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