Colt cams

[87SIA20A3T]

Well, I am going to cam my car (87 Prelude Si A deries ftw!) and I was looking at colts stuff and was wondering who here has a colt cam, either a stage 1 or stage 2 in there A3 and how they like it. I was considering the stage 1 since I think I will go turbo in the near future, but would a stage 2 also work? and how much has it affected your fuel economy?

[AccordEpicenter]

it will have a negative impact on your fuel economy, i would reccomend against going with a triflow grind.

[MessyHonda]

i got a colt stage 2 tri-flow cam......say hello to 22-25mpg...and full pull at 3-redline rpm....my cam blew my clutch

[2ndGenGuy]

i got a colt stage 2 tri-flow cam......say hello to 22-25mpg...and full pull at 3-redline rpm....my cam blew my clutch

What do you mean it blew your clutch? So it wasn't your engine afterall making the noise? Didn't you have the red pressure plate? Rjudgey runs over 160hp through his...

[MessyHonda]

What do you mean it blew your clutch? So it wasn't your engine afterall making the noise? Didn't you have the red pressure plate? Rjudgey runs over 160hp through his...



i ment my stock clutch....after my OBD1 swap, headers and stage 2 cam. my clutch started slipping and it died cuz at high rpm its like it hits vtak...yo

....thats why i went with a stage 3 clutch....even my 16 inch rims cant make it slip even in 2nd gear....it just chirps going into 2nd

[87SIA20A3T]

It was able to generate enough power to make your clutch slip? shit...Anyone use the stage 1 tri flow? any complaints on it?

[cygnus x-1]

it will have a negative impact on your fuel economy, i would reccomend against going with a triflow grind.

What's wrong with the triflow grinds?

I have a stage 1 triflow in my Prelude (A20 also). Works fine. It's not quite as aggressive as the stage 1 Delta (272) but it's decent. It can also get decent mileage too if you have a tuneable ECU. Last fill up I calculated 33+MPG. That's mostly highway miles but I wasn't babying it. I think it can do a little better.

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[MessyHonda]

What's wrong with the triflow grinds?

I have a stage 1 triflow in my Prelude (A20 also). Works fine. It's not quite as aggressive as the stage 1 Delta (272) but it's decent. It can also get decent mileage too if you have a tuneable ECU. Last fill up I calculated 33+MPG. That's mostly highway miles but I wasn't babying it. I think it can do a little better.

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you got to remember your car is lighter than our cars and you have a fresh engine....my cam was tuned also but the best i could pull was about 28mpg and that is hwy miles

[87SIA20A3T]

28 highway with a stage 2? what speed do you cruise at?

[MessyHonda]

28 highway with a stage 2? what speed do you cruise at?

i have oversized tires so that might of helped. and when i cruise i go around 70mph...but that is just highway....in the city it drops to about 22mpg....my car runs rich so it needs to get retuned.

[cygnus x-1]

True, mine is lighter but the wind drag will be very similar, which is what mostly matters at highway speed. Around town weight will matter more.

Mid 20s is not terrible though, and a stage 2 cam will start eating into mileage more than a stage 1.

Does Cali have a tailpipe test or is it all visual? If they don't actually do a gas analysis test you can retune for leaner mixtures under cruise conditions. I'm running around 16:1 at cruise and 15:1 at medium throttle. I'm not sure how that will work with OBDx and the O2 sensor though. In my case I have a wideband O2 sensor that acts as an indicator only. The ECU doesn't use it to control AFR, it just shows what it is. Tuning is done manually to make the AFR whatever I want it to be based on MAP and RPM.

Anyway, the point was that your mileage may be affected but it should still be decent. And it can be even better with tuning.

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[2oodoor]

the old school thought* used to be anything that made it run more efficiently regarding tune would increase your MPG but you have to stay out of the gas pedal!!! You can adjust the cam timing with a ACG even with the stage 2, so you can get the powerband in the torque range you need it so it does not go to waste. ( thought: less throttle opening needed for cruise speed)

[fogged]

This is turning into a good read. Anymore cam threads I can hit up?

[Bass Man]

Yep! This is turning into quite a need to know Cam thread on this board...
I think if I get my A1 cam re-ground, I will have Delta do there 272 since they are pretty cheap. Hopefully after I get my 4-2-1 installed and a cam, I should be getting some major 3-7k power where I really need it. It climbs to 6.5 easy in first and second, but from 4k to 6 in third is like 5 seconds.

[87SIA20A3T]

I would think the stage 1 would work the best for me as I am planning on going turbo in a few months (10psi) and i do not want something with alot of overlap. Did anyone notice alot of difference in the stage 1? like around 5,000 and up? I am mostly nervous about reving my motor that high as i have heard horror storries about wrist pins and connecting rods taking a shit around there...

[rjudgey]

I've managed to get just over 30mpg on a 400 mile trip up to North of England and back on one tank of fuel, this was with a fully built engine with twin Weber DCOE's and big valve conversion and a 272 degree camshaft i don't think the 285 degree one would have made that much difference the idea is to use the extra torque of the engine and keep it at that point and to never use anymore than just lightly touching throttle that way you'll allways just use the idle jet circuit which have much smaller jetting than the mains which if you use on DCOE's you'll start seeing your fuel gauge drop rather rapidly in front of your eyes!!!
My Beemer that had some tweeks done and a rather good re-map that has increased economy when cruising and in town due to the extra torque you just don't need to put your foot down although when you do even being diesel and only a 2.0l turbo it can drop to as little as 15mpg when WOT is used :eek5:

[turabaka]

I would think the stage 1 would work the best for me as I am planning on going turbo in a few months (10psi) and i do not want something with alot of overlap. Did anyone notice alot of difference in the stage 1? like around 5,000 and up? I am mostly nervous about reving my motor that high as i have heard horror storries about wrist pins and connecting rods taking a shit around there...

The cam on mine is still stock, but I've got a 38 weber on there. It revs to 6500 no problem. It really likes sitting in the 4000 to 5000 range I've noticed.

[2oodoor]

The cam on mine is still stock, but I've got a 38 weber on there. It revs to 6500 no problem. It really likes sitting in the 4000 to 5000 range I've noticed.

interesting
now tell how it felt like you did a lot more to it than switch carbs, huh huh :D
Mine sure felt that way

[turabaka]

^^ lol yeah it did. It feels like a completely different car now. Much more aggressive. I love screwing around with all the ricers now. Especially since my car looks really slow.

[cygnus x-1]

I would think the stage 1 would work the best for me as I am planning on going turbo in a few months (10psi) and i do not want something with alot of overlap. Did anyone notice alot of difference in the stage 1? like around 5,000 and up? I am mostly nervous about reving my motor that high as i have heard horror storries about wrist pins and connecting rods taking a shit around there...

5000 is no problem for any Honda in halfway decent shape. The factory red line is 6200.

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[rjudgey]

Theres no point flogging a dead horse if it's not making power after 6k rpm you'll excellerate quicker by changing earlier and using the torque of the engine, i've proven this on the 1/4mile track mine revs very easily to 7000k but if you change at just after peak bhp which is around 6k and you come in nicely on the peak torque which then helps excellerate you back upto the peak bhp again, maybe you'll find it more benefitial to have Teggy gearbox conversion.

[2oodoor]

Theres no point flogging a dead horse if it's not making power after 6k rpm you'll excellerate quicker by changing earlier and using the torque of the engine, i've proven this on the 1/4mile track mine revs very easily to 7000k but if you change at just after peak bhp which is around 6k and you come in nicely on the peak torque which then helps excellerate you back upto the peak bhp again, maybe you'll find it more benefitial to have Teggy gearbox conversion.

Preciseley ^^^^

[87SIA20A3T]

What is the benifit to a integra trans? shorter gears? I have a prelude SI trans

[MessyHonda]

integra gears are the shortest gears we can put in....i have them and it made the car way more fun to drive...but it made it louder since it has to rev higher...it made the car seam like it had a different engine.

[cygnus x-1]

integra gears are the shortest gears we can put in....i have them and it made the car way more fun to drive...but it made it louder since it has to rev higher...it made the car seam like it had a different engine.

I wonder, has anyone ever done before and after 1/4 mile runs with and without the 'teg gears? Would they really make a difference? You can rev quicker but you still have the same HP.

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[Bass Man]

Well, if you have shorter gears, you get through your gears quicker. If you can hit 5th gear and run high 15's, then you are in great shape.
Word to the wise. Don't swap 5th gear.

[2oodoor]

I wonder, has anyone ever done before and after 1/4 mile runs with and without the 'teg gears? Would they really make a difference? You can rev quicker but you still have the same HP.

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good question to bring up. At first I would say DUH of course lower ratio would mean a quicker sprint. But this is not true all the time. You would not want close ratio gears with a boosted A20, you would loose the advantage of the long torque curve pull. There is a good thread about this here somewhere.
The higher reving Honda engines that have thier max torque around 6000-8000 rpm, would benefit with tighter ratios, the quicker you get in that range the better.
Doesnt a prelude si already have a good ratio combination transmission?http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165

[markmdz89hatch]

Doesnt a prelude si already have a good ratio combination transmission?http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165

I'll let you know in a few months about that.

[rjudgey]

Teggy gears
Yes yes and yes to all questions.

The prelude gears are just too tall 3rd use to drop me just below the sweet spot for the engine and would take too long to get to the end of the drag strip and changing to 4th would be worse as it's even taller 4th gear is very similar to 5th gear on teggy box!!!

Prelude SI box is higher ratio but not as high as teggy box Accord LX box is just stupidly low ratio good for turbo crowd i guess but not for us Carbed guys!!

Personally i like the teggy box only gear that doesn't make sense is 5th i think it needs to be just a little lower in ratio but it was designed for a teggy engine. It's okay though i've still managed to hit 140mph with the teggy box at full revs!! I lik ehaving the two differerent box's as i race on tracks a short twisty track teggy box is great a long sweeping track the prelude carbed box is great. Also the teggy gears and box with A20 bell housing is stronger than carbed prelude box which is a bit weaker.

Teggy gears are only different in 3rd 4th and 5th the other two are the same as prelude box. If you plan on having an engine thats a real screamer say revving from 4-8.5k rpm or higher the teggy box is ideal. Also worth dropping in a LSD is you can.

[Tdurr]

this thread FTW! im plannnig on going turbo in 4-6 months and just had my lxi tranny rebuild(i didnt have to pay for it hehe) but anyways, would a lude tranny+accord 5th be the best for a boosted accord? If so i got no prob taking my tranny somewhere and have the gears replace wit lude ones.
Edit: also, would a stage one colt regrind be good for na(for a bit) then turbo or should i just get a regrind when i install the turbo and tune it for that?
~TDR

[87roach]

I've got the stage 1 but haven't got the engine in yet to try it out.. will be able to by the end of the month though! Honestly I would phone colt cams and see what they have to say, the guy I talked to is really nice and knows his shit so he could tell you.

[import racer]

just a quick question may be a dumb one but did any of the trans to fit our cars come factory with an lsd.

[cygnus x-1]

this thread FTW! im plannnig on going turbo in 4-6 months and just had my lxi tranny rebuild(i didnt have to pay for it hehe) but anyways, would a lude tranny+accord 5th be the best for a boosted accord? If so i got no prob taking my tranny somewhere and have the gears replace wit lude ones.
Edit: also, would a stage one colt regrind be good for na(for a bit) then turbo or should i just get a regrind when i install the turbo and tune it for that?
~TDR

NA and turbo have different requirements for cams. Turbo engines rely on boost pressure to get air into the cylinders while NA engines rely on valve duration. A long duration cam will make more power with NA but that cam will have more valve overlap, which will work against you with boost. If you are planning to go turbo then you really don't need a reground cam.

And with a turbo I think you want the taller Accord gears. With lower gears you may have problems with traction.

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[87SIA20A3T]

Yeah, that guy geoff from colt cams said the stage 1 would be fine for forced induction since the tri flow does not open both intake valves at the same time (no overlap) It was something like 260 on the primary and 270 on the seconday intake. I only plan to run 10 psi anywho.

[rfiks]

What do you mean it blew your clutch? So it wasn't your engine afterall making the noise? Didn't you have the red pressure plate? Rjudgey runs over 160hp through his...
:huh:red pressure plate???

[cygnus x-1]

:huh:red pressure plate???

There is a company called Clutchnet that makes discs and pressure plates for our cars. The pressure plates come in grades that have different spring rates for more or less gripping force. "Green" is a stock replacement. "Yellow" has a little higher force than "Green" for more grip but I don't know how much. Maybe 50% more? "Red" is next and has 2 times the clamping force of a stock clutch. And I believe there may also be another level of "Red" that has 3x clamping force but I'm not sure about that.
All of their stuff is high quality though and highly recommended if you want to upgrade your clutch.

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[2drSE-i]

just a quick question may be a dumb one but did any of the trans to fit our cars come factory with an lsd.

no
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