Sei rear disks are they worth it?

[bullard123]

I can get my hands on a complete sei rear disk swap. My question is are they really worth the time? Why or why not?

[BITESIZE]

They look nice. It is alot of work, but worth it.

[2oodoor]

Like Bitesize said, they look good and with all the cosmetic mods on your car that is pretty important.
It brings the car up to state of the art as well.
I would like them on my LX sedan but it is not high on the list.

[ZackieDarko]

from what i hear its night and day

[2drSE-i]

Not that i know how difficult the swap is, but i would do it just so that i didnt have to work on drum brakes anymore. Plus, calipers just look better!

[Accordtheory]

The more quick the rate of deceleration, the more weight is transferred to the front..
I am really skeptical if this is worth doing..or I probably would have done it by now.
I'm sure not doing it just because it looks better..
Who knows, never driven an se-i, esp not one with the ebc yellow pads.

[Dr_Snooz]

No, you shouldn't do it. It would be a terrible mod.

You should, however, forward the purchasing info to me.

Heh, heh. ;)

[Cheeseburger]

So far you have been doing a good job in pimping out your accord. If i were to see you accord at a show i would be sweet mother of cheese this looks HOT! but as i would be circling the accord checking it out and i see the drum breaks i would be FTL! lol... just do it if you can.

[2oodoor]

^^^sweet mother of cheese^^^^ good one !!!:D
even civic ex, del sol, and all newer accords, and acuras have rear discs, my last two pickup trucks have had rear discs.. It is not so bad a job as long as you have everything you need.

[Ichiban]

Not that i know how difficult the swap is, but i would do it just so that i didnt have to work on drum brakes anymore. Plus, calipers just look better!

I think it would probably be just as easy to swap the drums for discs, rather than change shoes and fuck with all those springs. Even though the Honda drums aren't so bad to work on, the Toyota ones are a fuckin nightmare.

[bullard123]

Good input guys:) Lot of good pros and cons. Would it be easier to take the whole assembly off from the control arm down?

[w261w261]

<< but as i would be circling the accord checking it out and i see the drum breaks i would be FTL! lol... just do it if you can. >>

I don't know how logical this is, but last February my wife's Volvo died, and I couldn't take my SE-i to Montreal for it's new windshield until I got her another car. She really liked the Honda Fit, and we actually ordered one for delivery in a couple of weeks. But the more I thought about it, the more those rear drums bothered me. It wasn't just the relative lack of braking power, it was the implication of cheapness. It probably wasn't just the drums on the Fit that did it, but we cancelled the order in a few days and bought a '04 Passat, a much better car (basically an A4).

[mykwikcoupe]

Its a easy swap especially if you have a complete arm assembly. It took me 4 hours to pull them off an sei and put them on my lxi but I've got a good supply or air tools.
I'd do it just in case. If it doesn't make a difference why did they use them in the sei and again on almost all new cars? That's my input

[Accordtheory]

I don't have anything against drum brakes. They don't drag like discs, either. Discs always have a slight drag.
I don't know, I've said for a while the ebc yellow pads with the 88/89 discs are enough, maybe not.
So what all do you have to change, I can't remember. The proportioning valve, and the whole rear setup? What about the parking brake, does the cable just connect right to the new shit?

I remember one of my friends did the rear disk swap on his civic, it was totally not worth it in my opinion. My brakes are much better overall than on his car, and I still have drums.

[EricW]

Seeing as how you put your car in shows, I would the disk swap just for the cosmetic reasons. It is a simple mod. The most annoying part was the parking brake cables because you have to drop the exhaust and the heat shield to get them in the car.

[bullard123]

Ok so yeah they will enhance the appearance of the car. But you can't even tell I have rear drums because the 17's pretty much hide them. I was thinking about just getting drilled/slotted rotors all around with ceramic pads but seeing that sei coupe smiling at me with rear discs is very tempting also. I guess for me it will boil down too what will be the easiest job to do.

[MessyHonda]

how can you say no to this?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Messybone/LX-i/DSCF2500Medium.jpg

[Hauntd ca3]

any brake up grade is good

[turabaka]

I say do it. I got the ones off of Bitesize's hatch, and they were a piece of cake to install. Took me an evening to do the rears. A bit longer to upgrade the fronts to the lx-i brakes since I had to replace some ball joints as well.

[carotman]

Drums will fade faster than discs.
You can't get performance shoes for our drums.

Drums cost less
Drums have a better initial bite.

It all depends on what you want.

[A18A]

i would do it just so it makes our cars look less behind in the times like it would with teh drums

[cyra]

Drums will fade faster than discs.
You can't get performance shoes for our drums.

Drums cost less
Drums have a better initial bite.

It all depends on what you want.

one more drum advantage:
the handbrake works


by the disc, sooner or later, it does not.

[frantik]

Would it be easier to take the whole assembly off from the control arm down?

yes it's really easy to remove that way.. you can remove the whole assembly with like 4 -6 bolts lol

[AccordB20A]

drums really poon when it vomes to doing handbrakeys but they are gay to change the shoes in. and discs are so much nicer to look at. prolly more lighter aswell lol

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

Buy them

[MessyHonda]

one more drum advantage:
the handbrake works


by the disc, sooner or later, it does not.



trust me i love my set up...and i have a dx with stock brakes and it really sucks...my lx-i with brake upgrades holds good...sometimes when im going to park i pull my ebrake and i can lock up both rears.

[Tdurr]

I have locked up my rears with m rear disk. if you have good pads u will lock them up if you yank hard enough. But disk work better overall. Just look at cars with 4drums. ppl swap for disk or die lol
~TDR

[markmdz89hatch]

i think a lot of this is aesthetics and ease of maintenance.

As 2drSE-i said earlier, I personally hate working on drums. To me, they're a pain in the ass to adjust and replace. There's so many moving parts, from the adjuster, the little adjuster clip, the springs, retainter clips, and additional e-brake cable lever inside the housing. PITA.

....BUT...

As Carrot pointed out, drums do have a much better initial bite. ...an Cyra said, the e-brake works. I do have to disagree with the claim though that drums wear faster. In my experiences, the drums actually wear much better then disc. There's just so much more surface contact (ie. better friction=better initial stopping power) on the drums than on the disc. The shoes apply even pressure to about 85+% of the circumference of the drum all at once (theoretically, as long as all of the moving parts work as their supposed to), as opposed to the disc where only the 3~ish inch long pad makes contact to the rotor. I would guess that to be only something like 8-10% of the surface area of the rotor face. Just for arguments sake, let's say the drums are 8" diameter, with a 1.5" deep contact surface, with shoe surface of about 11" per shoe. Also, let's assume a 10" rotor with 1.5" height of braking surface, and an approximate pad size of 1.5x3 inches. Granted, I think that 8" diameter on the drums is a little low, and the 10" rotor might be at least 1/2" too big, it gives you the idea of what I'm getting at.

Drum Surface: [(8xπ) x 1.5] = ~37.70 in²
Shoe Surface: [(11x1.5) x 2] = 33.00 in²
That's 87.5% Surface Contact during braking. ...which also equals tons of heat ...which leads to much faster brake fade/failure


Rotor Surface: [((5²xπ) - (4.25²xπ)) x 2] = ~43.58 in²
Pad Surface: [(3x1.5) x 2] = 9 in²
That's ~20.7% Surface Contact during braking. ...much less than drum. Arguably greater pressure is applied, but although initial bite is less, so too is friction. Also given less surface contact and the open-air nature of disc, as opposed to closed (of drum) heat dissipation is incredibly more efficient.

That said, the reason most all race and high-perf applications are done in disc is because of their ability to dissipate heat and be less susceptible to failure from heat MUCH better than drum. Granted, this will not benefit you much if you use your car for just daily driving.

There should be a weight savings by going to disc, and disc is MUCH easier to work on/replace than drum (IMO of course).

That's all I got, sorry for the long ass reply.

[Accordtheory]

I still have a few questions about this. First, is the e brake really inferior on the disc setup? That would suck.. And so you do have to change your parking brake cables? I really don't feel like dropping my exhaust and heat shield..yet again.

I am now leaning toward the sei rear swap though..at some point. Hitting my rev limit (8500) in 3rd on my ls tranny, looking at my stupid oem tach (wondering why it stops moving past like 8200), then looking up and realizing that I can't stop in time for my turn is what changed my mind..
Anyone know if you can get the ebc pads for the rear discs too?

[russiankid]

Yes you have to swap the cables, the ends on them are completely different compared to the drum brakes.

I have locked my rear wheels with the e-brake before. I have rear discs, so as mentioned with good pads you will lock them up.

[2drSE-i]

yes you can get EBC pads for the rear disks. We use the same rear pads as several other honda cars

[2oodoor]

illuminating exchange of ideas and very colorful explanation sir Markmdzhatch:cool:

I am amazed at some of the other comments posted here. If and when I do a disc swap on this 2000 pound car I will use an adjustable prop valve even if I have to use hybrid adapter fittings at the valve.
Corvettes have been using rear disc's for decades.

It is absolutley true from my experience that rear disc wear a lot faster than drums. Where you would replace shoes every 40,000 miles if that, you will have put on three or four sets of pads and remachined/replace rear rotors by then. On some USDM models I see the rear pads wear out well before the front, which is arse bakerds from what we expect to see. I also half suspect some conspiring planned obsolesence by automakers to sell these parts sometimes :ugh2:

[AccordB20A]

yeah my rear pads dont last long for some reason lol

[2ndGenGuy]

Corvettes have been using rear disc's for decades.


They also have tiny drum e-brakes in the rear behind the rotors. Strangest thing I've ever seen, but probably never need replacing or adjusting unless you leave the e-brake on while you're driving. :nervous:

[2oodoor]

^^^crown vics use the same thing, bad thing is the shoes are bonded not riveted and the linings come unglued all the time. Usually they do not get much attention since the cars are all automatics, plus you can throw them into a pretty predictable J hook without any e brake.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

I would buy them. I am putting mine on my new accord as soon as I have the time. I notice a pretty decent difference between my old sei's braking and my new car.

[snoopyloopy]

idk about installing, but i know they're not hard to remove. i've removed at least four on my own. all you NEED off the donor car is the disc knuckle, ebrake cables, and calipers/associated brake lines. everything else is identical.

[bullard123]

idk about installing, but i know they're not hard to remove. i've removed at least four on my own. all you NEED off the donor car is the disc knuckle, ebrake cables, and calipers/associated brake lines. everything else is identical.

Cool man thanks

[bullard123]

Wow a lot of good pros and cons:)

[russiankid]

Installation is very easy. Just disconnect all of the lines; remove the long bolt that holds the lower control arm to the spindle, then remove the 4 nuts that hold the spindle to the trailing arm and it slides out. It may be easier if you put a jack under the trailing arm when you install the disc spindle. I had a hard time holding the trailing arm while trying to put the spindle on. The trailing arm keeps moving side to side up and down.:mad:

[Accordtheory]

I will use an adjustable prop valve even if I have to use hybrid adapter fittings at the valve.


Same here. I suspect oems bias the brakes strongly forward, like they do with handling (understeering). (at least with "economy", mass transportation style cars) I've never been able to activate the abs on the rear brakes of any car either. Maybe once the front activated, the rear would have if I pushed even harder on the brake, but I've never tried that..

[snoopyloopy]

but of course, how much are you looking at for the set? if it's over $150-200, you'd be better off trying something bigger/better imo...

[Accordtheory]

Yeah, they are pretty small, aren't they..what upgrades exist though?

[MessyHonda]

Yeah, they are pretty small, aren't they..what upgrades exist though?



legend master was trying to figure something else...i have 1st gen rear calipers that i need to install...they have a bigger piston so it would apply more pressure.

[markmdz89hatch]

legend master was trying to figure something else...i have 1st gen rear calipers that i need to install...they have a bigger piston so it would apply more pressure.

As long as you get the prop. valve from it too, or get an aftermarket one. Otherwise, with a larger piston, and the stock propo, you'll actually get less performance out of those calipers.

[MessyHonda]

As long as you get the prop. valve from it too, or get an aftermarket one. Otherwise, with a larger piston, and the stock propo, you'll actually get less performance out of those calipers.

i am already running the se-i prop valve, my old calipers are started to stick...when i have my parking brake on and then after like an overnight when i get into the car ...it feels like they drag on the rotor for the first 20 feet then it stops

[russiankid]

i am already running the se-i prop valve, my old calipers are started to stick...when i have my parking brake on and then after like an overnight when i get into the car ...it feels like they drag on the rotor for the first 20 feet then it stops

That is why you should rebuild them before installing them.:wave:

I still have the LX MC and prop. valve. It takes a bit more pedal travel to get any pressure. So if you going to upgrade to bigger calipers, you will get the same effect.

[gp02a0083]

i swapped the front disks on my 87 lxi with the ones i had on my 89 lxi , i HAD to swap the MC b/c i didnt have enough pressure with the system , dunno with the rear discs, ive been reading tho there might be a slight difference with the rear trailing arms

[Accordtheory]

Weird, I have the 88/89 front disks with my old 87 master cylinder, and it works fine.

[gp02a0083]

Weird, I have the 88/89 front disks with my old 87 master cylinder, and it works fine.

my 87 lxi didnt work with the 89 lxi front brakes , well one the knuckles had to be changed, after that the brake lines that are on the 87 are a bit shorter than the 89's. however when i finished the front brake conversion i didnt have enough pressure, went and got a MC for an 89 lxi/sei installed it and it was fine (it very well could have been that my MC was going bad) however 3 things are preventing me from installing my rear discs. one is that i need to order the e-brake cables, 2 is that i want to get rear adjustable control arms to correct for alignment, and third is that i still haven't gotten a positive answer if the lower trailing arms on the 87's will work for the 89 rear knuckles or if i have to now go and find a new set of rear trailing arms

[russiankid]

Weird, I have the 88/89 front disks with my old 87 master cylinder, and it works fine.
Which model did the brakes come from? The 88/89 LX and DX had the 86/87 DX,LX, and LX-i brakes.

[bullard123]

Check it out some are on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/86-89-accord-Rear-disk-brake-setup_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42605QQihZ010QQit emZ200235961547QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[russiankid]

You would need cables if you buy those.

[gp02a0083]

Which model did the brakes come from? The 88/89 LX and DX had the 86/87 DX,LX, and LX-i brakes.

the bigger brakes i had came from my old 89 Lx-i that i put on my 87 lxi

[snoopyloopy]

You would need cables if you buy those.

i do believe you can order them from rockauto or majestic honda. and it doesn't matter if you order coupe or sedan cables, they're both the same length.

[MessyHonda]

just came from the junkyard and they had 2 se-i coupes

[Accordtheory]

Which model did the brakes come from? The 88/89 LX and DX had the 86/87 DX,LX, and LX-i brakes.


Uhh, why would I put the 88/89 brakes on my 87 car if they weren't different? lol. Esp the amount of work involved, you have to change the steering knuckles, and I had to replace a wheel bearing in one of them too..

What I Really want to know if why the steering knuckle is different in a way that affects (increases) the camber. It shouldn't be, but it is.

[gp02a0083]

Uhh, why would I put the 88/89 brakes on my 87 car if they weren't different? lol. Esp the amount of work involved, you have to change the steering knuckles, and I had to replace a wheel bearing in one of them too..

What I Really want to know if why the steering knuckle is different in a way that affects (increases) the camber. It shouldn't be, but it is.

only thing i remember about the front knuckles is that the mounting spot is offset on the 88/89 lxi/sei i dont remember having alignment issues with my swap

[snoopyloopy]

just came from the junkyard and they had 2 se-i coupes

if only those weren't such a pain to ship. save the cables at least, lol

[StUpiD8000]

haha...those are mine I'm selling on ebay there...someone should buy them...

blargin

[Accordtheory]

haha...those are mine I'm selling on ebay there...someone should buy them...

blargin

I looked at the listing, where are the disks? Were they damaged?
So let's see, without actutally looking up anything, that setup+ shipping+ new pads + new disks..around $320..?

[StUpiD8000]

I didnt keep the disk, no one would get these and really use the old ones and yes, they were pretty bad..

And I did a swap for a friend and I think it came out to just over $200ish. We did use the cheapest pads and disks tho. and rebuilt the calipers...Im only asking what I paid at the yard for these

[StUpiD8000]

well these didnt sell on ebay. Ill relist them one more time and if they don't sell I'm going to have to just take them back to the yard and get my money back.

[markmdz89hatch]

don't do that. hold onto 'em, timing is just off. there's regularly a need for them.

[StUpiD8000]

I really need the money back soon for my other car and Im moving soon

[bullard123]

I really need the money back soon for my other car and Im moving soon

I wish the junkyards here give you a refund. They only give you store credit or should I say yard credit lol

[snoopyloopy]

:werd:
yeah, that's all they give here too. and they'll only give that if you've bought a warranty. otherwise, you're sol.

[StUpiD8000]

http://www.picknpull.com/

Best junkyard Ive ever found. hell have to drive over an hour to get there

[Oldblueaccord]

What about the 1988 Prelude Si rear disks? I saw a few of those cars today and was wondering. I understands the arm is not the same as ares is but I wonder if the brakes can be converted.

wp

[snoopyloopy]

try a yard swap and if it works buy it.

[hewofmatt]

Just to put my two cents in... I have an Se-i and the brakes stop pretty quick. The parking brake will definitely lock up the rears easy. It makes going around turns fun. However, I am in the process right now of changing my rear calipers because the park brake doesn't work correctly and sometimes the rear wheels drag really bad because of it. The rear calipers are very expensive and I had to special order them. I paid cost because my dad works at a parts store. It was still $130 with the core charge for both along with some caliper paint. If I didn't get them at cost they would be $130 a piece plus the core charge. which reminds me, the core for my old calipers are $20 a piece. I'd sell them on here for core price + shipping.. PM me if interested. I'll list them within the next few days.