92 Integra Difficult to "hot start"

[bushbean]

Hey y'all,
I received a Integra from a relative who got fed up with fixing it all the time. He said he poured a whole bunch of money into it; and it still won't start when the engine is hot. The injectors and the distributor thingy were replaced recently. The car runs fine all the time (although the CEL is on). It just won't start when the engine is hot. Is this engine similar to the 3Geez's? If so, what should I check for. Thanks!

[A18A]

main relay? when you first turn the key to "ON" do you hear a humming sound from towards the back of the car for about 2 seconds? or hear a double click from in the dashboard area, then 2 seconds later hear another click?

[LX-incredible]

Check the TW sensor. What codes is it throwing?

[nswst8]

He we go again, what have you done thus far?

When say hot, middle of a hot day, after driving distance? Does it die out after getting hot?

What code is it throwing out?

Does it turn over or just click?

Does in have coolant?

Have you checked the oil level?

We need more info if we are to help you.

[bushbean]

Sorry guys. My primary car is a 3g with a carburetor, so I don't know squat about fuel injection system. And I've only driven this Integra once. When I learn more, like how to check the code, I'll report back. It looks like I've a lot of learning to do.

>> He we go again, what have you done thus far?

Absolutely nothing. I drove it home this week. I drove it 300 miles across Texas; and it ran perfectly, except for the hot start problem.

>> When say hot, middle of a hot day, after driving distance? Does it die out after getting hot?

When I say "hot", I mean the engine is at operating temperature--like after being driven for half-an-hour at high speed. The car does not die out, ever.

>> What code is it throwing out?

I'll report as soon as I figure out how to check code.

>> Does it turn over or just click?

It turns over.

>>Does in have coolant?

Yes. It even has a new radiator. This Integra has lots and lots of new parts. Looks like to previous owner threw a whole bunch of parts at this and other problems.

>> Have you checked the oil level?

Yes. The engine burn a small bit of oil. It burned 1/2 quart during the 300-mile trip. Also, during cold start, I can see a bunch of white smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe.

>>We need more info if we are to help you.

Thanks. You guys are the best. I'll give more info when I collect them. I'm also fixing damages to my house from Hurricane Ike; so please be patient.
:)

[nswst8]

About how long until you can get it to start again. My reasoning is this. The main fuel relay on the accords have solder connections that crack and expand in the heat of the day loose the contact resulting in a no start. When it sarts to cool the connections contract and make contact again. Reulting in a start.

White smoke or white with a bluish tint, explantation white smoke is steam = H2o in the cylinder possible head gasket leaking.

Bluish smoke = oil in the cylinder possible leaky valve stem seals

[bushbean]

About how long until you can get it to start again. My reasoning is this. The main fuel relay on the accords have solder connections that crack and expand in the heat of the day loose the contact resulting in a no start. When it sarts to cool the connections contract and make contact again. Reulting in a start.


About 15 minutes. If the problem is the fuel relay, shouldn't the engine die whenever it gets hot? In my case, the engine will run forever even when hot.

[bushbean]

To read the ECU code, I've read that I'm suppose to short two wires under the glove box, and turn the key to the ON position. However, the CEL that I'm getting only comes ON after driving for a few minutes; and it goes away after I turn off the engine. Thus, I'm not getting any code.

[nswst8]

The main fuel relay will be a module in the interior cabin somewhere. Ours is behind the dash above the fuse box almost at the top of the dash, its a PITA to get to.

The ECU has a memory module that you are trying to access to see codes are stored there. Just do as the instructions dictate and get back to us.

[nswst8]

Scratch this ?

[nswst8]

This is something that I found with google.

5th Apr 2006, 13:48
Your problem is the Main Relay.

Its the most common problem on these generations of Integras, with a simple replacement it will be the "reliable car" you wanted, oh by the way, I have 180,000 on mine, never a single problem, all depends on the care of the car.

Oh watch out for a leak into your passenger floor, it's a common problem too.

[nswst8]

From what I've learned so far the main relay is located in the dash to the left of the steering wheel. A 10mm bolt holds it in place and should look brown in color. I haven't swapped mine out yet, but just found a few forums diagnosing the issue. My issue is that the car will turn over but won't fire if the interior of the car is warmer than 90 degrees. A few minutes with the windows down usually helps. From what I've read the main relay is a way to fix the issue. The actual issue is called the fuel pump relay which is built into the main relay so much more efficient to just change the main relay. I'll be doing mine tonight. Apparently it takes teensy tiny hands to get to this part so be ready for cuts and bruises.

[nswst8]

I'm 99.999% sure it's your Main Fuel Relay. I just replaced mine (I also own a 1992 Integra) last week. They are notorious for going out. You probably noticed it acting up when it started getting warmer out, or if you had the floor heater on for a long time. I bought mine at Advanced auto parts. If you go there, don't ask them to look under a 1992 integra main fuel relay; they will give you the wrong one. I told them to reference a 1990 Honda Civic under Relays-Misc (they use the same relay). It's a BWD part. I'll edit my post when I get the part number from the receipt at my house. If I remember correctly it wasn't more than $60. Take the 3 trim screws out from your dash below the steering column. (kick plate by your knees). Make sure to take the ash try / coin holder out by pushing it to one side, then pulling it out; there is a third screw behind that. I think it's a 10mm or 12 mm socket to take out the 2 bolts on the left hand side for the metal plate (once you take off the plastic trim piece). Pull the metal plate down, you will see 2 relays mounted on top of one another, held on by one bolt. Take the MFR out, and plug the new one in. Shouldn't take more than 3 minutes.

Good luck!

Hope this answers your question.

[Civic Accord Honda]

yeah sounds like main relay mine stoped working on my acura legend i re-soldered it and its been working great since :)

[bushbean]

I was able to read the ECU code. I read the following codes:

12 - EGR system
14 - Electronic Air Control

The previous owner told me he fixed the EGR valve last year. What the heck is the second one?

[nswst8]

EGR valve could have been replaced but you could still have a clog in the recirc path.

Electronic control valve could probably need a cleaning, after cleaning mine the idle settled down abit.

[bushbean]

Question: if my Main Fuel Relay is bad, then shouldn't the engine quit when it gets hot because the MFR doesn't work anymore, which leads to fuel pump quiting?

[nswst8]

Dude, what is you malfunction! We are trying to help you here and you just don't want to acknowledge the answers.

IT IS OUR EXPERIENCE THAT A MAJOR RESPONSE TO A NO START UNDER HOT CONDITOINS IS A DEFECTIVE MAIN RELAY.

I found the info you asked for on the web in abundance, do some research.

[nswst8]

Man, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have flamed on you like that. I understand your question but I don't have the answer to that picticular question.

Again, it is our experience that the problem you are experiencing is a defective main relay.

Good luck

[A18A]

the car wont cut out once it's running from a bad relay, unless you unplug it, or if it's REALLY fuckt, which i doubt. so yeah main relay

[bushbean]

Ok folks. I shall go to Autozone tomorrow, buy a MFR, cross my fingers, and pray to god that it will fix the problem.

Is this the part: OE Part # 39400SH3003 (EFI Main Relay)?

[Oldblueaccord]

You can jump it out to test it or use the one off the 3 g I think they are the same. Goolgle seatch the tech.auto site has it and I have posted it on here 2-3 times.

Usually it gives you the "no hot start condition" but I have never heard of it giving out while a car is running. It could be possible but it just does not fail in that form.


wp

[bushbean]

Folks,
It was a failure. Both the Main Fuel Relay under the steering column and the coolant temperature sensor were replaced with new units. The problem is still there, exactly as before. Now what?

[nswst8]

I'll keep looking. Was the relay a simple R/R is it possible that the contect didn't snap in correctly? Bent a pin on the relay.

Both spade pins on my low pressure switch bent in on my A/C and I didn't notice it until I reverted back to R-12

[nswst8]

Everthing I'm finding is related to relay.

Won't start as in won't even crank, or it won't start as in it just cranks and cranks but won't start up? Need more specifics, but if these:

1. won't crank at all, either battery or starter could be bad. Start with battery as it's a $60 item. Starter is $200 item.

2. in cold, humid times, it cranks, but won't start up, then it could be your distributor and the rotor contacts have worn out. Distributor cap with rotor, about $50 and change the wires ($50 set of 4) while you're at it.

3. in hot weather, it cranks, but won't start up, then it might be your main fuel relay. The contacts crack over time and when it's too hot in car, the expansion causes the contacts to not touch, so you crank but no fuel is going into engine to start. Relay is about $90-120.

Try these three

[nswst8]

When ever I get really stumped I have had alot of luck with this site.

www.justanswer.com

goto the honda experts, its only $9 and you talk to master mechanics. I have never been let down using these guys.

[bushbean]

The motor cranks fine all day long. THe problem is that the motor won't fire up whenever the engine is hot (operating temperature). For example, I start the car early in the morning (starts fine), drive for 15 minutes to the pharmacy, come out of the store 10 minutes later, and tries to start the car. It won't start immediately after I come out of the store. I'll have to seat in the parking lot and wait about 30 minutes before it'll start, and I'd have to give wide-open-throttle, crank for a long time and keep my foot on the gas pedal after it fires up. It really struggles to fire up at that time. It doesn't want to idle at all during the first 30 seconds. After 30 seconds, it idles fine, and the car drives like it's brand new.

The problem is the same during both cold and hot weather.

The previous owner just told me that the car wouldn't start at all (cold or hot) one year ago, his mechanic replaced the whole distributor with a new unit and the problem disappeared. Now, there is only a hot start problem. Is the distributor bad already? His mechanic told the him that the car needs a new distributor again, but he was sceptical and decided to get rid of the car.

[nswst8]

The idling problem is related to the codes your getting pertaing to the idle control valve remove and clean then replace.

Ensure the timing is set then adjust the idle.

EGR could just need to be cleaned or replaced I'd try cleaning first.

[nswst8]

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=486097



http://www.team-integra.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=15&TopicID=152266&PageMsg=Viewing+Common+Topic



http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44386&page=2

[bushbean]

Can a plugged EGR cause hot-start problem?

[nswst8]

I would put this in the idling code.

[bushbean]

I'm suspecting the culprit to be the IACV. I just found out today that the engine will fire up if I press down slightly on the gas pedal while cranking.

[nswst8]

Sounds like a good deduction to me. Let us know how it goes.

[Dr_Snooz]

Is the distributor bad already?

You might check your ignitor. Those distributors are well known for the ignitors going bad and leaving you stranded. I haven't heard of a hot-start problem associated with that, but it's worth checking.

[LX-incredible]

I'm suspecting the culprit to be the IACV. I just found out today that the engine will fire up if I press down slightly on the gas pedal while cranking.

Sounds like the coolant temp sensor to me... Unplug it and try again next time it acts up.

[bushbean]

Sounds like the coolant temp sensor to me... Unplug it and try again next time it acts up.

The coolant temp sensor was replaced also. It didn't make any difference.

The previous owner, and now I, has thrown a lot of parts, and money, at this problem; but to no avail.:dunno:

[Dr_Snooz]

I'm not sure anyone here is going to be able to give you a magic bullet answer, but perhaps we can help you work through to the solution. I assume the car is still giving a code 14, right? Until that is fixed, it's pointless to move any farther. So let's start with that.

Code 14 indicates the "Electronic Air Control". From what I've read, that is the same as our Idle Air Control Valves. That DOES NOT mean that you need to run out and buy a new EACV. The light indicates a problem in the circuit, including the engine computer, the EACV and various wires that can break. You need to find out what the problem is to repair it properly. You'll need to follow the diagnostic procedure in the Acura manual. If the car is worth $62 to you, then you need to buy an Acura manual (http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?class_2=AHA&mk=Acura&yr=1992&md=Integra&dt=&module=&from=result&Style=&Sku=61SK702&itemtype=N&mscsid=6JVHX9R63XVF8MQHH6WDR2G7PB290WJ5) from Helm, Inc. (http://www.helminc.com) and proceed through the troubleshooting flowchart carefully. There will be a series of diagnostic tests for the circuit that identify the problem precisely.

That said, you might try cleaning the IACV using this guide (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1575913&page=1) before doing anything else. It might work, but I won't guarantee it. That vintage of Hondas was really quirky and temperamental. If it works, rock on. If it doesn't you'll have to buy the manual.

If you do end up fixing the EACV circuit and find that you continue to have the hot start problem, there will be a good troubleshooting section on diagnosing starting problems.

Hope that helps and keep us posted.

[bushbean]

I reset the ECU; and now it doesn't give code 14 anymore. It only shows code 12, which is EGR valve. I don't think it affects starting.

I tried spraying some carb cleaner into a port on the intake manifold; and the engine still won't start. I think this means there is fuel. Thus, there is must be no spark. I'm afraid the distributor is the culprit; but since it's so expensive to replace, I'm looking for other culprits first. Is it possible the ignition switch on the steering column is going bad?

[Dr_Snooz]

You probably haven't seen the last of Mr. Code 14... Anyway, the EGR can shut the engine right down, no problem. Again, you really want the manual so you can attack this stuff logically. My Mom's 4g Accord recently gave me a Code 12 (EGR). If I had presented a Code 12 to any discussion board on earth, the answer would have been the same: clean the EGR, then replace it if that isn't successful. The EGR is a $230 part and it was functioning perfectly. The culprit ended up being the EGR Control Solenoid Valve in the black box on the firewall. For $12 I fixed the problem, but only because I had the manual.


Trust me on this, you really want to get the manual to fix this problem.





It will pay for itself with this repair alone.






Honest it will.










I'm not kidding...