power steering help - new 3g owner

[minektur]

So I was just given an 88 lxi which had some serious need of work and cleaning. It has 239K miles.

The immediate, urgent, dangerous problem has been fixed (replaced front axels - well CV joints). I paid someone else to do this because while I probably could, I have no free time.


There are a host of small little things that need to be taken care of still, but I'm about to try and figure out what is wrong with the power steering.

Right now, I've been driving around with what feels like manual steering. Previous owner says that she started having problems a year ago and when she put more fluid in the engine smoked (guessing psf dripping on exhaust or something...) and after it stopped smoking she never touched it again. And drove for a year with non working power steering. Her approach to fixing the terribly bad CV joints was similar - "turn up the radio real loud".

So, to be honest, with a free car, I'm not really interested in dumping a bunch of money or time into it - if it's safe and will last a while.

In hopes of an easy fix, I topped off the PSF and looked around for leaks - didn't really find any... hm.... but there is no change in the effort involved in steering.

My questions -

1: if I "do nothing' is this likely to be safe? or am I going to end up dead because my steering locked up while doing 75 on the freeway one day?

2: Is my assumption that the PS pump is burned out completely likely to be the main problem here?

3: How hard is this to replace?

I have many other questions too, but I'll at least try and figure them out myself before I bug yall....

Thanks

[ghettogeddy]

no its safe just a pain in the ass


is the belt still there and whats the reserver leval at and let us know were your putting the ps fluid just to be sure your in the right spot lol not calling you a dumb ass or anythign but you can only guess what we have sceen lol

oh and were are you located maybe there is some one around that can stop by and give you a hand most members will do that just to see another 3g lol

[minektur]

The belt is there and turning when the engine is on.

The reservoir I filled with (honda-type) PSF is close to the front of the engine compartment, very close to the driver's side of the car, just ahead of the driver-side front wheel - in three languages it warns me to only use honda-type fluid on the top :)

I completely understand the desire to find out how ignorant I am (pretty ignorant, but I can read.) I've only ever owned toyotas (and a ford f150) before this car so I'm clueless about this car.

And, I live in Provo, UT. Not sure if anyone would want to see this car. The paint is leprous, and until I paid to have the seats and carpet cleaned, it was easily the dirtiest car I've ever been in.

[ghettogeddy]

The belt is there and turning when the engine is on.

The reservoir I filled with (honda-type) PSF is close to the front of the engine compartment, very close to the driver's side of the car, just ahead of the driver-side front wheel - in three languages it warns me to only use honda-type fluid on the top :)

I completely understand the desire to find out how ignorant I am (pretty ignorant, but I can read.) I've only ever owned toyotas (and a ford f150) before this car so I'm clueless about this car.

And, I live in Provo, UT. Not sure if anyone would want to see this car. The paint is leprous, and until I paid to have the seats and carpet cleaned, it was easily the dirtiest car I've ever been in.

paint is nothing lol



well ive been having a leaking prob my self but even at a low leval it still works

i dont know how to test the pump but therer has to be a way to
may also me a vacume line that


loooking at the online manual there is a way to test it here is the link to the manual
http://3geez.wiki-tv.com/manuals/1986-89%20Accord%20Master%20Manual.pdf

[DBMaster]

The smoking is most likely from leakage in the high pressure hose that delivers P/S fluid from the pump to the control box on the steering rack. The hose runs across the front of the engine directly above and in front of the spark plugs. My guess is that the pump may be ruined due to running it with no fluid in it. In this case it's hard to say, but you probably need a new rack as well. With the mileage you most likely have leaks in the rack seals as well. You are looking at somewhere near $1,000 at a shop and perhaps half that if you do it yourself.

Unlike some of the others on this forum I do not think it is safe to drive around with f'd power steering. At road or highway speeds it's fine, but at low speeds you simply cannot control the car that well due to the muscle power you have to exert. I drove mine that way for about a week when the rack went out and dealing with tight parking spaces was scary. There are some old posts about how to "convert" a power rack to manual. That might be better than simply driving it like it is now.

[greentee76]

Changing the pump is easy. By the way the pump is the one on the top front driverside of the engine. I only mention that as I had the a/c compressor and p/s pump backwards in my mind for awhile when I first got my 3gee.(doh!)
If it were me I go pull one at the junkyard a swap it and see where I was then.
Of course I'm a cheap ass, so do what is right for you.
Good luck with getting it going! And thanks for saving another 3gee:thumbup:

[Dr_Snooz]

I don't suppose you bled the PS system when you added fluid, did you? You bleed it by turning it from lock to lock several times. It's kind of a long shot, but try that first. Also rotate the pump pulley by hand to see if the action is smooth. If the pump is torqued, get a another from the junkyard. I would expect a bad pump to make a LOT of racket, but who knows? I'm not sure how long you've been driving it without PS, but it might just take some time for the oil to work its way through everything.

I'm inclined to agree with DBMaster that you're in for some money on this car. Given the repair history (turn up the stereo to get rid of horrible noises), you should expect more repairs in the future (probably a lot more). If I were you, I would do the bare minimum to get this car going. Only fix what you absolutely have to fix, and only use junkyard parts. If the car outlasts the parts, consider yourself lucky.

The only exception to that is the PS high pressure line. If you find that it's leaking, replace it promptly as letting it go can result in a catastrophic engine fire.

Good luck!

[minektur]

I'll let yall know how it goes as I try and fix this - it'll be a while :)

Thanks for all the good advice.

Fred

[cygnus x-1]

I've been driving my Prelude (Accord's little brother) for nearly 2 years without power steering. Mine was also a leaky mess so I said the hell with it and turned it into a manual. I removed everything but the rack. The rack I pulled apart and packed with grease so it would have some lubrication without the fluid. Then I gutted the valve body so it wouldn't be working against any internal pressure when the piston moves back and forth. It has a little play in it but drives great. I actually prefer it as a manual since it has more road feel. Parallel parking is annoying but I don't see how it would be unsafe. You're hardly moving. Having PS leaks is probably more risky due to fire hazard.

C|

[minektur]

so did your "minimizing" of your old PS equipment make steering any easier either at high or low speed?

I think I'm ok with things as they are now - I'm willing to get a workout for parking and for normal driving it really isn't an issue.

but if I could do minimal work and make it a bit easier then I might be willing to spend the time.

[nswst8]

Its a simple fix depending on your ability to do the work yourself. And the availability of junk yard parts.

Pump seals are probably fried, running with no p/s fluid left the pump with no lubrication, I'm surprised it didn't sieze. Rack is an easy replacement if you can get it off the ground. Pop the tie rods, detach the lines, unbolt the rack remove and replace in reverse order.

[AZmike]

It has a little play in it but drives great.

C|

The trick is to also immobilize the pinion holder so that all of the pinion shaft's motion is transferred to the rack. That eliminates the biggest source of play and makes a power rack function exactly like a manual rack (except for any difference in steering ratio).

minektur:
At low speeds some maneuvers could be a chore, but the feel at speed is much better than the power rack in my opinion--at least with the complete conversion described above.

[Dr_Snooz]

I changed the rack on my '82. Had to say a lot of Hail Mary's and Our Fathers to undo all the swearing. It was a royal biatch, not to mention that I was covered in PS fluid and assorted road filth from working under the car for a half day. There was some lift and twist action at the steering column that I just couldn't figure out. Then I had to take the thing in for alignment, which was another $100 on the price of the swap.

...then found that it too leaked (junkyard unit).

I wouldn't want to do it again.

[minektur]

So, the upper line coming off the PS pump has a pinhole leak - just idling, there isn't a noticable leak, but with my 9 year old son cranking back and forth on the steering wheel there is a rapid drip from the upper line, right in the middle of the engine - directly between the two middle spark plugs. Of course, it drips down on what I believe is the exhaust manifold and it smokes like crazy. So, I guess I'm off to the junkyard to find a replacement hose.

Some happy things to note: Looks like that is the only place that is leaking (e.g. not in the rack...). and amazingly, the pump appears to still be working despite being run mostly? dry for a year by the previous owner. Also, despite the leak, it is clear that it seems to be working - e.g. I get a big power assist while attempting to steer.

Someone or other mentioned getting some new hoses made at some shop by just taking the old one in - they cut off the fittings and make new ones. What kind of shop would do that for me? e.g. what do I look for in the yellow-pages?

Thanks for all the great advice and help.

[nswst8]

Hydraulic line shop. Someone who advertises high pressure hydraulic line.

If you go the junkyard route try and look for one that already was replaced. This was a common replacement for the 3g. The replacement has a bulky square head tha attaches to the pump.

And remember there are 2 different lines carb and EFI (efi has a pressure switch port, higher priced) Carb doesn't and is the lower priced.

[minektur]

so the 'new' JY hose is in place. The mechanics of replacing the hose are no big deal, but man what a PITA for routing the hose. Took me way too long not for anything other than getting that long metal bracket out from between the frame and tie-rod or whatever that's called that goes between the two wheels.

So, the short version is that it's working! The PS pump does indeed seem to have survived non-use for a long time. I suspect that since my leak was at the very top of the system that there was some fluid sitting in the pump most of the time. No other aparant leaks and I get a good power-assist.

Was it worth the hour at the JY (in the rain) getting the old hose, and the 2.5-3 hours swearing and routing the new hose? Probably :) We'll see.

Thanks for the advice.

[88accordA20A1]

i had the same problem in my 88 lx, turned out the people i bought it from just ran the pump completely dry. i checked the rack seals and everything so it must not have been done for long, but i just did away with the whole system. i kinda like the feel of manual steering. either way she probably ran that pump on air.

[canadian357]

Same problem when I got mine. I had a leak on the main pressure hose, check for that. Mine was dripping because a seal had been wrecked (someone just put good ol' $3 STP psf in, and because honda is mildly douchy, that screwed it). Check for a leak around the resevoir side of the pressure hose. I had no PS for 3 months. I hated parking lots with a passion.