E85 conversion kit

[nswst8]

For those of you that have ever thought of converting your gas guzzler to the more efficent E85 flex fuel.:bowrofl:

Just thought if any of you got bored or if gas prices continue to rise, heres an alternative.


http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/StoreFront

[DBMaster]

MORE efficient? Since our engines are not optimized for the octane level of E85 you would actually lose approximately 30% of your fuel economy and power (limited as it is). E85 would make sense for a turbocharged car because you could increase the boost pressure to take advantage of that octane, but other than that you wouldn't be gaining anything.

[Oldblueaccord]

This will start a shit storm but I'm pretty happy mixing E-85(30%) with 87 octane. At this time im right on getting 30 mpg(city) this week with the cooler air. I might do it in the future with bigger injectors and tricking the O2 sensor I think it can be done pretty easy on our cars.


I am thinking about converting the wifes Astro van over theres a guy that will flash a computer for about 385$ or if you buy a Diablo sport he will sell you the program for 80$. I thought about having two computers one for gas and one for E-85 JIC when we travel.

[Civic Accord Honda]

were the hell do u get e85 never seen it before lol

[Oldblueaccord]

http://afdc.energy.gov/afdc/stations/find_station.php

put your zip in there jackson and see if you got any near you. Its usally 20-60 cents cheaper then unleaded.

[DBMaster]

Around here I have only seen it at the Krogers grocery stores that have gas stations. I said my piece and I am staying out to avoid, as OldBlue put it, a shit storm.

[nswst8]

Did I start "a shit storm" dam. I was hoping for a hurricaine.

[Oldblueaccord]

http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php?action=forum

hah naw Im used to it. That link up there has some other kits. I read your link but im not sure what they are selling you. It seems to be some kinda box I would bet it just making your car run richer with E-85.

I still remember when the gal at Pep boys in 1995 told me converting my car to 134a would make "green goo" and purple jelly and the compressor would sieze.

I think the best things I have read is that a motor built just for E-85 with high compression is the way to go. Its what the drag racers are finding out and they don't pay to go slower. There some things about ethanol and its burn rate that some are calling the "perfect" fuel.

[carotman]

Yet, Audi won the "Le Mans" with a diesel engine.

[2oodoor]

For those of you that have ever thought of converting your gas guzzler to the more efficent E85 flex fuel.:bowrofl:

Just thought if any of you got bored or if gas prices continue to rise, heres an alternative.


http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/StoreFront

He says, "gas guzzler" so that leaves out my Accords, :toilet:
I thought the most concern with E85 is corrosion in the fuel system and by product residue. I notice the "miracle" blend post Ike hurricane fuel we have been getting is making my Weber a bit moody, and my 2004 Ford pickem up it exits the tailpipe faster. We are out of gas almost everywhere here today btw, maybe time for some corn squeezins:beer:

[cygnus x-1]

Bah, humbug! Ethanol is a good fuel but it's highly subsidized and is in the end a net loss as far as energy per dollar. Until we find a way to produce it efficiently (cellulosic ethanol maybe) it will continue to be a net loss. This is rather blasphemous for me to say since I live in Illinois where the vast majority of farms grow corn for ethanol.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2481/whats-the-true-story-on-ethanol


My alternative is diesel/veggie oil.

C|

[DBMaster]

If you have high enough compression E85 could be considered the poor man's racing fuel.

[Dr_Snooz]

Ethanol is a good fuel but it's highly subsidized and is in the end a net loss as far as energy per dollar.

Not to mention that it causes food price inflation here and food price riots in Asia.

[Oldblueaccord]

Yeah I keep telling everyone little kids in China are starving because of the corn shortage here.

Has anyone else tried mixing ,or blending they call it?

[Civic Accord Honda]

http://afdc.energy.gov/afdc/stations/find_station.php

put your zip in there jackson and see if you got any near you. Its usally 20-60 cents cheaper then unleaded.


wp
damn ...
No stations matching the search criteria were found.

[Oldblueaccord]

Bump

having same good luck broke off some 30 mpg this fall in the coolers temps.

[turabaka]

I intend to run E85 in my car after I bump the compression up in it. Definitely a cheaper alternative to running race gas all the time.

[cygnus x-1]

Oddly enough I'm considering converting my Prelude to run E85. It's somewhat funny considering the last post made in this thread. :o

I would rather do propane but it would be a hassle to fill. It has to be done by an actual filling station and since there are no street legal conversion kits for these old cars, I don't think they would be too happy doing it. The only other option would be to make the tank swappable and just bring in the tank to swap. Again, more hassle.

But E85 is available all over the place here and it is very much a cheap racing fuel. To really take full advantage of it you would want a much higher compression ratio, up to 14:1 or so. I'm strongly considering modifying a head to do this but I'm not sure its possible to get that high without changing pistons. Even welding up and milling might not be enough.


C|

[turabaka]

I've been thinking 13:1 compression on my build via custom pistons. However, Cygnus if you can figure out a way to get that high with just modifying the head I'd be willing to pay you to do the headwork for me when I start my build.

[MessyHonda]

Oddly enough I'm considering converting my Prelude to run E85. It's somewhat funny considering the last post made in this thread. :o

I would rather do propane but it would be a hassle to fill. It has to be done by an actual filling station and since there are no street legal conversion kits for these old cars, I don't think they would be too happy doing it. The only other option would be to make the tank swappable and just bring in the tank to swap. Again, more hassle.

But E85 is available all over the place here and it is very much a cheap racing fuel. To really take full advantage of it you would want a much higher compression ratio, up to 14:1 or so. I'm strongly considering modifying a head to do this but I'm not sure its possible to get that high without changing pistons. Even welding up and milling might not be enough.


C|


yeah on my coupe i have a welded head and it only brings up the compression up to 10.5:1

[turabaka]

yeah on my coupe i have a welded head and it only brings up the compression up to 10.5:1

I'm thinking that custom forged pistons are gonna be the way to go. I'm hoping I can get enough money set aside this winter to start on my build. Damn you college and low paying job! :hmph:

[MessyHonda]

I'm thinking that custom forged pistons are gonna be the way to go. I'm hoping I can get enough money set aside this winter to start on my build. Damn you college and low paying job! :hmph:

yeah man just throw some b16 pistons...

[Oldblueaccord]

Oddly enough I'm considering converting my Prelude to run E85. It's somewhat funny considering the last post made in this thread. :o

I would rather do propane but it would be a hassle to fill. It has to be done by an actual filling station and since there are no street legal conversion kits for these old cars, I don't think they would be too happy doing it. The only other option would be to make the tank swappable and just bring in the tank to swap. Again, more hassle.

But E85 is available all over the place here and it is very much a cheap racing fuel. To really take full advantage of it you would want a much higher compression ratio, up to 14:1 or so. I'm strongly considering modifying a head to do this but I'm not sure its possible to get that high without changing pistons. Even welding up and milling might not be enough.


C|

Yeah you would need piston to go that high. I just dont think there is enough area in the heads chamber to fill up(milling and welding) to get it that high.

There some compression calculators online you can mess with the numbers. I am not sure the CC of our combustion chambers but the other numbers are available. Just keep pluggin in lower CC numbers and see how far you can get.

[2oodoor]

But what about the rest of the fuel system? Extended usage of E85 and degradation of the hardware?

[Oldblueaccord]

So far for me its bunk but I am only running 30% at the most. I am running 50% on my Scout but its 440/ carbed of course. I use plastic gas line on it but its a steel tank. I only think with maybe some Aluminium maybe there might be a problem. I can call RC engineering and see what they say Im using there 250cc injectors.

I got some moonshine here in the cabinet and some AL pieces I guess its time for a little experiment :devil:

[cygnus x-1]

Yeah you would need piston to go that high. I just dont think there is enough area in the heads chamber to fill up(milling and welding) to get it that high.

There some compression calculators online you can mess with the numbers. I am not sure the CC of our combustion chambers but the other numbers are available. Just keep pluggin in lower CC numbers and see how far you can get.




I already have a spreadsheet setup to figure out all the numbers. I was playing around with it last night and decided to see what I could do with a cut up chunk of an A20 head casting and some plumbers putty. I know from previous measurements that the combustion chamber volume on the A20 is about 48cc. So I filled in the chamber with putty as much as I could without shrouding the valves too much. Then I removed the putty and rolled it into a ball so I could measure it and calculate the volume of just the putty. Anyway what I came up with is that with just welding up the chamber, the most you can get is about 10.5:1. Milling down the head by 1mm after welding the chamber gets you to about 11.3:1. Milling the head 1.5mm after welding would get it to 12:1. 1.5mm is 0.060", which is pretty extreme and I don't know if it would work without causing other issues.

Just milling the head 1mm gets you to about 9.7:1.
A thinner head gasket would be nice. Just the head gasket itself adds 6cc to the chamber.
The piston dish with valve reliefs is also about 6cc.

I was hoping for a little better. Still undecided on the whole idea.



But what about the rest of the fuel system? Extended usage of E85 and degradation of the hardware?

Most everything will be ok. The only major concern is aluminum that isn't anodized and is in contact with the ethanol for prolonged periods. The head and manifold are ok. Stock fittings and lines are almost all steel. All modern rubber lines are ok with ethanol but maybe not the stock Accord lines. Those are replaceable with Teflon lined hoses. The fuel rail might be a problem if it's not anodized. My guess is that it is but I don't know for certain. It should be possible to have the stock rail anodized if it isn't already.

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