Gas Light

[Timaculent]

Question

Whenever my fuel is low no matter how low my gas gets the light doesnt come on. what could be the problem Also i know that the light is not blown.

[ghettogeddy]

sender unit ( i believe its what its called) is out


edit hahahaha

sending unit lol i was close lol

[MessyHonda]

u dont need a light to tell you the gas is low

[ghettogeddy]

u dont need a light to tell you the gas is low

ya there is a lot of people out there that dont look at the needle

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

My gas light works when it wants to and thats in both my Accord's

[A18A]

i use my perfect math skillz and work out how much petrol i have left by how many km's i've travelled. way more accurate than the needle

[MessyHonda]

ya there is a lot of people out there that dont look at the needle



and thats why they are the ppl that get pulled over for speeding cuz they dont have a Slow Down idiot light

[Timaculent]

Wow you guys are so positive.

Where is the sending unit, how much does it cost and is it hard to replace?

[itzdave]

i honestly dont think that my 'low gas' light has ever worked. When it starts to get low, i just put more gas in...

[2oodoor]

right after I started driving the DX I ran it down low waiting for the light to come on, like it does in my LX. Well much to my surprize it never did, and the result could have been a tragedy.. it ran out on the interstate in the dark as I was going to work. It just had barely enough momentum to make it to a section where there was even a place to pull off to the side.. back another 15 ft. it would have been in the middle of the road, most likely hit by a truck. Lucky too was my brake light switch used to stick on when I first got it, I took this shot standing on the other side of a concrete barrier as I waited for somebody to bring me gas..
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t280/roodoo2/1202475328.jpg

[russiankid]

Sending unit is on the passenger side in the trunk. I believe the unit itself is $100+ new. Easy to replace, just expensive.

[Timaculent]

thanks i think i will leave it be cause spending 100 dollars right now when i am redoing the head and installing headers is just not going to happen.

[russiankid]

thanks i think i will leave it be cause spending 100 dollars right now when i am redoing the head and installing headers is just not going to happen.

I just checked Majestic and its actually $67 plus shipping. I remember it used to be expensive.

[forrest89sei]

i use my perfect math skillz and work out how much petrol i have left by how many km's i've travelled. way more accurate than the needle

X2

I keep a log in my truck it goes like this:


1986 Chevy:

Date: 9-27/Miles :265,119/Gals Used: XX.XX/Est MPG:

I do this A, since the sender on my truck is at the top of the rectangle tank so when i go up hill it's off, and B to track my mpg :D

But back on subject that sender is easy to replace

[Timaculent]

too much work

[Timaculent]

do you really do that.

[A18A]

less work than changing a fuel sender, and still having a inaccurate gauge :)

[Dr_Snooz]

Junkyard part.

[Timaculent]

Junkyard here I come.

But wait my fuel level is acurate and the level does go down.
My bulb is not blown but it still doesnt come on.

[LX-incredible]

What's the point? You're not saving anything by waiting to put fuel in. All you people are going to accomplish is premature pump failure due to overheating. That goes for those who only put $5 in as well.

[Civic Accord Honda]

on my accord my gas light was on 90% of the time for the 2 years that i owned it and it never caused the fuel pump to go out or overheat hell it even ran out of gas a few times

[LX-incredible]

Okay, I'm was just pulling that fact out of my ass. It's perfectly fine to run the pump all the time with low fuel, one of the reasons they put the pump in tank is not to assist in cooling, and it makes perfect sense to spend the money you save on fuel (cause you really do save) on GPCs and a 30 pack of natty ice.

[Dr_Snooz]

Not so sure about the overheating. I can't imagine Honda would put something that gets real hot in a tank full of combustible liquid. What you will likely end up doing is clogging up your fuel pump, filter and lines because the pump will be drawing detritus from the bottom of the tank instead of good fuel from the top.

[Civic Accord Honda]

Okay, I'm was just pulling that fact out of my ass. It's perfectly fine to run the pump all the time with low fuel, one of the reasons they put the pump in tank is not to assist in cooling, and it makes perfect sense to spend the money you save on fuel (cause you really do save) on GPCs and a 30 pack of natty ice.
im sure they run hotter but im just saying most the cars i and my parents have owned have been low on gas most of the time due to not affording any gas at all so pretty much drive them untill it runs out then push a shopping cart around untill you can afford another couple dollars of gas anyway none of the cars have ever had a bad fuel pump.
so far iv been keeping the legend around 3 qutars of a tank tho since the light dont work and the guage is kinda fucked up so i just try to put in a couple dollars every day to keep it from getting low since idk were low is lol

[russiankid]

Not so sure about the overheating. I can't imagine Honda would put something that gets real hot in a tank full of combustible liquid. What you will likely end up doing is clogging up your fuel pump, filter and lines because the pump will be drawing detritus from the bottom of the tank instead of good fuel from the top.

You would need some intense heat to catch gasoline on fire without a spark. All fuel pumps will get hot especially when they aren't getting cooled down.

And CAH, you spend $20 a week putting in $4 a day, or spend $20 at once and not risk the pump going. Difference=pump failure or not.

[Civic Accord Honda]

lol i try to put 2$ a day in the legend its at half a tank rite now but it enjoys getting 12mpg... but im just saying back when i had the 3g sometimes we couldent afford any gas for a couple weeks so we would have to just drive it untill it ran out then walk lol it sucked but thats life..

[2oodoor]

CAH you took LX incredible's post and ran with it.. holy dam. It is a well known fact in professional auto technicians community (duh I wonder how I know that) that running tanks on 1/8 to empty is harder on the in tank fuel pump of ANY car. Is it going to burst into flames, WTF do you think, that is a dumb ass assumption to even consider. It runs hotter than it's ideal operating temp, how about that? It is designed to be submerged in cool fuel 90 % of it's duty cycle.
And Dark Accord, WTF when have you ever had a DD car running consistantly for two years. when? :rly:
If the light isnt working, if you can afford to fix it, fine. if not, be forwarned when the needle hits the E and stays there for any consecutive time span of ten minutes... you got about 20 miles or 10 minutes to get some F'n gasoline. I have been putting off geting gas in the Dx this weekend, and finally went to get some, the needle was just a blond cat hair beyond E, and it chugged out as I pulled into the gas station ..it had be on E for about 15 minutes in my thursday commute back home from work... lucky there was no lines today. (havent drove in in three days btw)


sorry for the tone, my BP is probably up from all the salt in this seafood bisque I just made and ate five bowls of it.

[Dr_Snooz]

If a low tank heats the pump up enough to cause failure, then I wouldn't put it in the tank, spark or no.

[2oodoor]

If a low tank heats the pump up enough to cause failure, then I wouldn't put it in the tank, spark or no.

I agree, having had to drop the tanks in many USDMs, it is a dangerous job to do, and they should have had the foresight to make better access.
Fact is though it is "state of the art" engineering at this point in time .. they still do it, and Ive had 2007-08 models failing already at my job.

[LX-incredible]

CAH you took LX incredible's post and ran with it.. holy dam. It is a well known fact in professional auto technicians community (duh I wonder how I know that) that running tanks on 1/8 to empty is harder on the in tank fuel pump of ANY car. Is it going to burst into flames, WTF do you think, that is a dumb ass assumption to even consider. It runs hotter than it's ideal operating temp, how about that? It is designed to be submerged in cool fuel 90 % of it's duty cycle.
And Dark Accord, WTF when have you ever had a DD car running consistantly for two years. when? :rly:
If the light isnt working, if you can afford to fix it, fine. if not, be forwarned when the needle hits the E and stays there for any consecutive time span of ten minutes... you got about 20 miles or 10 minutes to get some F'n gasoline. I have been putting off geting gas in the Dx this weekend, and finally went to get some, the needle was just a blond cat hair beyond E, and it chugged out as I pulled into the gas station ..it had be on E for about 15 minutes in my thursday commute back home from work... lucky there was no lines today. (havent drove in in three days btw)


sorry for the tone, my BP is probably up from all the salt in this seafood bisque I just made and ate five bowls of it.
Amen brother.


If a low tank heats the pump up enough to cause failure, then I wouldn't put it in the tank, spark or no.
How hard is it to understand? EVERY electric motor generates heat and will last longer when kept cool. They put the pump in the tank to assist in priming, preventing vapor lock, and cooling. The more efficient cooling allows them to make the pumps smaller and more reliable.

[2oodoor]

LOL so i don't practice what I preech.
Yes I never fill up the DX, I have had some fuel leak issues occasionally since the weber swap on it. I do not use a charcoal cannister, or a vent (I dont think) and the gas cap whooshes good when I do get gas. Usually get 8 gallons and call it full.
The only reason I ran it so dry this time was there were hour long lines to get gas all week.:ugh:

[Timaculent]

ok so forget the light i will just rely on the guage. Also hey do those gas savers work at all.

[2oodoor]

www.gassavers.org
lots of interesting things to read on that topic

[A18A]

Not so sure about the overheating. I can't imagine Honda would put something that gets real hot in a tank full of combustible liquid. What you will likely end up doing is clogging up your fuel pump, filter and lines because the pump will be drawing detritus from the bottom of the tank instead of good fuel from the top.

i reckon might aswell let it suck up what's at the bottom of the tank each time instead of letting it all the shit accumulate, unless you dont mind doing a fuel tank flush every now and then

[Dr_Snooz]

Wow, such passion over fuel pumps. Awesome!

Okay, I did a little (emphasis on little) research and learned the following. Fuel pumps do get hot and fail. They typically get hot because of line restrictions or dirty filter socks. More often, they fail because of tank detritus getting into the pump. Didn't really find anything about chronically low fuel levels causing the pump to fail but did find an article saying that pumping cold fuel into an empty tank over a hot pump could cause problems.

So from what I've read, I'm wrong. Yet an overheated fuel pump is just not passing my smell test. Has anyone actually opened one of these failed pumps up? I'm curious what the insides look like. When you say they overheat, are we talking about melted things inside them, plastic distorting, or what? I just don't see how you could have a fuel pump overheat without a corresponding class action lawsuit from car fires. Not trying to press my argument, just want to understand. Thanks!

[AccordB20A]

never seen an overheated fuel pump before. prelude pumps are the same pump and they are external. maybe they are cooled by the fuel running threw them. either way if u have like one liter of gas remaining the gas is still flowing so its still; cooling.

[2oodoor]

Overheat... probably not the best term for what is going on.

fatiqued materials from excessive friction, uneven cooling of disimilar materials in confined construction. To describe a failed pump, seldom do they just pump and not flow like a toasted AC compressor.. no they will either lock the FK down or they will almost lock up begining with shorten strokes until they do lock up. That said, how could you imagine such a failure occuring?
Lack of lubrication from the fuel it pumps- caused by starvation from clogged sock, debris, pump becoming disubmerged because there is not enough gas for it to stay submerged.
Uneven expansion and cool down retraction of the disimilar materials intergral to the pump. Due to operating temperatures beyond the pump's specifications as a continuous duty cycle device.
As for the components of the pump and circuit overheating, relax.. the connector outside the pump, the relay and connections will get hot enough to break the circuit before the pump in the tank ever gets red hot like a fuse in a ryder truck full of ortho & petrol.
oh crap I'll be on a fed watch list now.. lol

[2ndGenGuy]

Haha suckers. My fuel pump is inline, underneath the car. About a 5 minute job to replace. :flip:

[Timaculent]

Now you say that I hope that you didn't jinx yourself

[Dr_Snooz]

Overheat... probably not the best term for what is going on.

fatiqued materials from excessive friction, uneven cooling of disimilar materials in confined construction. To describe a failed pump, seldom do they just pump and not flow like a toasted AC compressor.. no they will either lock the FK down or they will almost lock up begining with shorten strokes until they do lock up. That said, how could you imagine such a failure occuring?
Lack of lubrication from the fuel it pumps- caused by starvation from clogged sock, debris, pump becoming disubmerged because there is not enough gas for it to stay submerged.
Uneven expansion and cool down retraction of the disimilar materials intergral to the pump. Due to operating temperatures beyond the pump's specifications as a continuous duty cycle device.
As for the components of the pump and circuit overheating, relax.. the connector outside the pump, the relay and connections will get hot enough to break the circuit before the pump in the tank ever gets red hot like a fuse in a ryder truck full of ortho & petrol.
oh crap I'll be on a fed watch list now.. lol

Okay, I'll buy excessive friction. Still not sold on the whole overheating thing.


Haha suckers. My fuel pump is inline, underneath the car. About a 5 minute job to replace. :flip:

Get over yourself... LOL :)

[2oodoor]

[QUOTE=Dr_Snooz;903089]Okay, I'll buy excessive friction. Still not sold on the whole overheating thing.



friction causes _______
______ cause friction

overheating being the wrong term in this case for having temperature beyond specified design parameters for long life

answer: heat
answer: incorrect tolerances and lack of lubricant

:D

[Timaculent]

ditto overheating sounds too far fetched.

[LX-incredible]

friction causes _______
______ cause friction

overheating being the wrong term in this case for having temperature beyond specified design parameters for long life

answer: heat
answer: incorrect tolerances and lack of lubricant

:D
Haha.

How hard is it to understand people? These pumps are designed to be submerged in liquid because liquid conducts heat better than air. :slap:
I work in the water well industry and although not the same by design, run any submersible pump motor out of water for more than a few minutes and it's toast. Why is that?

What makes running on an empty tank a good idea? Sure the extra $15 wall mart allowance can be nice at the time, but you're going to wind up putting it in anyway. Your car will not use less fuel on a nearly empty tank.

[AccordB20A]

Haha.

How hard is it to understand people? These pumps are designed to be submerged in liquid because liquid conducts heat better than air. :slap:
I work in the water well industry and although not the same by design, run any submersible pump motor out of water for more than a few minutes and it's toast. Why is that?

What makes running on an empty tank a good idea? Sure the extra $15 wall mart allowance can be nice at the time, but you're going to wind up putting it in anyway. Your car will not use less fuel on a nearly empty tank.

for the pump to be filly submerged with fuel in the tank it would have to be half full. It has to be the fuel that the pump is pumping inside it that "cool's" and "lubricates" the pump

[2ndGenGuy]

Until I see a reply from an engineer who put that particular pump in the tank in the first place, I say you guys are going to argue until your faces turn blue on this topic. Different pumps for different cars are designed in different situations by different people. Sure SOME may use the gas to cool, some may not. Not all cars have their pumps inside the tank. Maybe on some cars it was merely a cost savings at production time. Especially back when the transition from carb to EFI was taking place... I mean look at the direct injection fuel pumps now. They pump the rail up to some insane 34783489734083 PSI, and many sit on top of the engine driven off the camshaft.

[Civic Accord Honda]

i ran out of gas tonight walking FTL!!!!! V6 FTL!!!

[Timaculent]

that sucks and 2 gen guy is right. I will just forget the light and stick to the guages. peace be with you on this topic.

[LX-incredible]

I mean look at the direct injection fuel pumps now. They pump the rail up to some insane 34783489734083 PSI, and many sit on top of the engine driven off the camshaft.
They're not made of plastic, have a much larger surface area to dissipate heat, and have no windings to generate heat or brushes to wear. We could go on at this for days, people will always try to justify retarded actions. I can guarantee you will shorten your pump life. Run your tanks dry, maybe you'll get away with it before something else falls off, just remember you're not saving a penny doing so.

[Timaculent]

now to install my pacesetter header YEAH!!!!

[2oodoor]

Until I see a reply from an engineer who put that particular pump in the tank in the first place, I say you guys are going to argue until your faces turn blue on this topic. Different pumps for different cars are designed in different situations by different people. Sure SOME may use the gas to cool, some may not. Not all cars have their pumps inside the tank. Maybe on some cars it was merely a cost savings at production time. Especially back when the transition from carb to EFI was taking place... I mean look at the direct injection fuel pumps now. They pump the rail up to some insane 34783489734083 PSI, and many sit on top of the engine driven off the camshaft.

Whatever car that is you describe, I never saw one but I will take your word for it.
As for the other pumps, if you ever mess with those you will see most all of them are designed the same. Other than the sender housing and mounting hardware you can hardly tell the differnence in the pumps. Note they are all do have different flow ratings.
A member here is using a GM camaro pump in his accord.

[AccordB20A]

and a externam efi prelude si pump is the same as an in tank accord pump kthx

[2ndGenGuy]

Whatever car that is you describe, I never saw one but I will take your word for it.
As for the other pumps, if you ever mess with those you will see most all of them are designed the same. Other than the sender housing and mounting hardware you can hardly tell the differnence in the pumps. Note they are all do have different flow ratings.
A member here is using a GM camaro pump in his accord.

The new Mazdas have them as do most other DI engines as far as I know. Reason being that you need to have thousands of pounds of pressure to inject fuel directly into the cylinder. The only way to get pressure that high is to pressurize the fuel rail right at the rail itself. The pump has to be right there. Of course it's fed by a regular fuel pump beforehand, but you can't pressurize the lines to pressures like that.

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/080505.html


Bosch currently uses piezoelectric injectors in its third-generation common rail system to introduce five or more injections per cycle with a maximum injection pressure of 1,600 bar. Higher performance and heavier vehicles–those weighing 3,900 lb or more –require injection pressures of 1,800 bar.

1800bar = 26,000psi

[2oodoor]

intersting article 2ndGG



I think im done here "K thanx"...:inout:

[AccordB20A]

all i can say that beats 40-60psi from a honda fuel rail!!!!!!!

[Civic Accord Honda]

and a externam efi prelude si pump is the same as an in tank accord pump kthx
:thumbup: