Lazy man's distributor overhaul (TEC distributor)

[Dr_Snooz]

Completely updated, 1/1/2019.

Below is a very targeted, very simple procedure for addressing the two highest wear items in the TEC distributors. These two items can spawn a myriad of odd problems and are among the first things to fail in these distributors. If your dizzie is completely shot, full of oil, red dust, etc., then this isn't for you. You need to buy a new one. If, however, you are starting to get symptoms of failure from an otherwise good dizzie, try this first. Symptoms include wild tach hopping and, in my case, a very strange electrical cut-out while cranking.

1. Remove the distributor.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_120013_zpsuhovrfji.jpg

2. Remove the rotor and plastic cover underneath it.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_120336_zpsvfqyozln.jpg

3. Remove the e-clip on the vacuum advance arm. It's a jumpy critter and will want to fly off into the grass where you'll never find it. Take great care to keep track of it.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_120356_zps5b9i32g0.jpg

4. Remove the 2 screws and then the vacuum advance pot.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_120520_zpsgocboya3.jpg

5. Using a couple screwdrivers, gently pry off the reluctor. It's soft and you don't want to chip the ears.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_120802_zpsnijy7t9k.jpg

6. Two screws hold the ICM (the silver block on the side of the distributor) and another 2 hold the pickup coil (that bundle of wires inside the distributor below). Remove the screws and remove the ICM and pickup coil. Be careful not to flex the wires more than you have to. The insulation on mine is starting to split from age and hardness.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_120912_zpswsbqend8.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_121134_zpslvcdtynm.jpg

7. Remove the two screws holding the vacuum advance plate, then CAREFULLY pry out the plate. Put a small screwdriver in one of the little holes in the plate and gently wiggle it back and forth until it pops out. Remember, everything in this distributor is 30 years old and parts are not available. If you break something, then you throw away the distributor and buy a new one.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_121224_zpsoxjwjuad.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_121354_zpskz9p6ev5.jpg

8. This reveals the manual advance mechanism. Lube it as per below. I used 10W/40 motor oil and white lithium grease.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/Presentation2.jpg

9. Lubricate the ball bearing ring on the vacuum advance plate. I just dribble a little oil over the bearings from the underside and wipe off the excess. The bearings are kept equally spaced by a plastic ring. Be careful with that ring. At this age, it's very fragile. If you break it, the bearings will all move to one side and the plate will be useless.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/20190101_122254_zpsjxkfy8cx.jpg

10. Re-assemble. Per the shop manual, be sure to grease the back of the ICM liberally with silicone (di-electric) grease and pack the connector pins with silicone grease before installing. Install your refreshed distributor, re-time the engine and be happy!



Here are some additional notes and tips.


It's always a good idea to inspect as much as you can while you have stuff apart. Use this opportunity to check the movement of the advance plate. Make sure it's smooth, not chunky. Make sure your vacuum advance pot holds vacuum. Make sure your distributor shaft doesn't wobble. Test the ICM and pickup coil using the tests on p. 24-9 of the FSM (link in my sig below). And so forth.
It's not a bad idea to replace the distributor oring at this time so you don't end up with a leak later.


This was my 2nd lazy overhaul. I did the first one 40k miles ago. At that time, my advance mechanisms were not working well. The plate was notchy and tight. The weights were sluggish and slow. The first lazy overhaul freed that all up. The electrical peculiarities I noticed at startup were sharply reduced. Throttle uptake from stops was greatly improved. I used to press the gas slightly and then wait for the ignition system to catch up. That went away. The idle and general engine performance was considerably smoother. I'm happy to say that everything was all still working very nicely 40k miles later and I could easily have deferred this 2nd rebuild for a good while longer.

If you're having any problems with your ignition system, I recommend doing this first.


Edit: the ever difficult tach hop was totally eliminated when I replaced the Ignition Control Module.

[nswst8]

Pics, please.

Good write up, break the paragraph down to individual steps.

[DBMaster]

Awesome. Maybe it was your thread I read before I rebuilt mine. The advance bearing in mine barely moved at all. There are also a few other problem areas that I am sure you will have in the longer version.

Distributor main bearing.
Distributor oil seal (not the o-ring, though that should be replaced as well)
Distributor end bushing (if there's play)

In the one I rebuilt I also drilled out the holes in the weights slightly and used bronze bushings on the weight pins rather than the partially disintegrated plastic bushings that were original. I ended up with a very serviceable unit as you did. After I used it for a couple of months I happened across a brand new one on eBay. Instead of $600 it was $75. That's truly a once in a lifetime lucky find. So, I have the rebuilt unit in a big zipper bag in my workshop. I guess it's a spare, or maybe I can sell it some time down the road. The housing was acid tanked and painted so the thing looks brand new.

[2oodoor]

someone should be able to make these shaft bearings pretty easy, or maybe buy one direct from somebody who make it, with specs in hand.
You meant take a hand vacuum pump to the JY not a guage right? of course the best pump have a guage on them.. lol

[Dr_Snooz]

If I remember correctly, the shaft bearing gets a steady supply of oil from the head. I'm hoping to keep things on the simple side by not delving too deeply into the distributor if it's still working.

The takeaway from all that above is that you can considerably lengthen the life of your distributor by regularly lubing up the two advance mechanisms. At least that's what I'm hoping.

Maybe I'll remember my camera when I do this again...

[LX-incredible]

Has anyone found the correct springs to replace the ones on the mechanical advance? Pretty much all the other parts are available. I have several rebuilt, aside from the springs...

[Pico]

if I remember right, shepard79 posted the springs he used on a dist. rebuilt.
I've looked for the post but cant find it.
Maybe you'll have better luck finding the post than I did

[LX-incredible]

I remember him saying something about a solution. Could just be his megasquirt conversion though.

[2oodoor]

I think he used the aftermarket chevy spring kit, it comes with a selection of different tension springs. Crane, Mr Gasket used to make those, Im sure they are in summit catalog.

[DBMaster]

I used the springs that came in the last rebuilt unit I ordered. I was under the impression from photos I saw that each weight had two springs attached to it, one inside the other. When I disassembled my original there was only one spring per weight.

Also, the main shaft bearing is in the middle of the distributor, just below the weight assembly so it does not get oiled from the engine. My original was totally dry and squeaky so replacing it is a must in an overhaul. I used the bearing that came with the rebuilt, but you can get one from a bearing supply company. The only part that should see any engine oil is the bushing directly behind the pinion gear. There is an oil seal right behind that. If it leaks you get oil all over the internals. That is why you should change that, too. My original one leaked. The oil that got inside turned into a sticky mess.

This distributor is what I would call needlessly complex, like a Swiss watch. It must be a holdover from the crowded engine compartments that Honda used to produce in the 70's. But, it is obviously very durable and will continue to work even in horrible condition.

[Dr_Snooz]

I guess this didn't bump when I updated it.

[DBMaster]

Dr,

Now that I see the pictures I agree with you. You would be able to see at this point if you had oil leaking into the distributor which would indicate you should replace the oil seal (not o-ring, the seal is inside the bottom third of the unit.) You can also see the pivot bushings for the weights in your photos. The ones in the unit pictured look cracked, but more or less intact. Given that the distributor you are working with does not look any worse than yours your quickie fix would help a lot.

[Dr_Snooz]

Dr,

Now that I see the pictures I agree with you. You would be able to see at this point if you had oil leaking into the distributor which would indicate you should replace the oil seal (not o-ring, the seal is inside the bottom third of the unit.) You can also see the pivot bushings for the weights in your photos. The ones in the unit pictured look cracked, but more or less intact. Given that the distributor you are working with does not look any worse than yours your quickie fix would help a lot.

You got it. I'm trying to prevent needing to do a complete rebuild. Every dizzie I saw in the junkyard had the advances all worn out. The vacuum advance mechanism was rough and notchy and the manual advance was grooved and sloppy. Most of us with these TEC distributors probably have our advance mechanisms in similar shape. Mine was. Just oiling those two parts did wonders. I figure if I can keep those advances lubed up, I can put a complete overhaul much farther out in the future. That's very important because there are no rebuild kits for these and parts are impossible to find. Obviously, when I open it and find other problems, I'll know it's time for something more than this.

Until then, I'm pretty confident that this alone will keep it going for a long time without any other issues.

(Glad someone gets what I'm trying to do here). :beat:

[jdmaccordnut]

The junkyard around here wants $50 for a used distributor that isn't even guarnateed to be better than my current one. What should I do? My tach bounces like crazy, and sometimes it misses enough that I feel a slight deceleration.

[Dr_Snooz]

Well, for $0.03 worth of oil, you can try this.

[88Accord-DX]

How lazy do you have to be for this to work? I might try that, good write up.

[Pico]

I just tried this on a spare dizzy I had laying around.
Good write up Dr. Snooz...

[Dr_Snooz]

How lazy do you have to be for this to work? I might try that, good write up.

You can be pretty lazy. If you dig any deeper into the dizzie than this, you'll be pounding out pins, removing snap rings and replacing odd shaped seals that you won't be able to buy anywhere. This avoids that. It's just a few Phillips head screws.

Nor should you need to dig much deeper. The only real wear items beyond this are a sealed cartridge bearing and a bushing that gets a steady supply of oil from the head. The crank sensor can sometimes go bad, but it's not especially likely.

[DBMaster]

There was another post here early this year that provided a size and source for the main bearing. I ordered my bronze bushings for the weights at Purvis Bearing Supply. I'd lay odds that they carry a bushing and seal that would work as well. I think I saw in my various web searches that there are sources for these parts elsewhere. I guess it just depends upon how badly you want to overhaul the thing.

[AZmike]

Thanks for starting this thread.

I have a spare distributor full of red dust that I figure I can't make any worse by overhauling the whole thing. Getting the whole distributor apart wasn't too bad. It looks like the vacuum advance will be the pricey part. I doubt I'd find any good ones at the pull-a-part given the 20 years of desert heat they've all had to endure.

[Kabuki]

AZMike asked, and so I will reply here too: I do still carry the Tec distributor shaft seals. I have bearings for applications 1990+, but can't find a source for the bearings on the 3Gs. If you guys know of one, I would be forever grateful. I may even be able to make them available to you once I can get some. For you poor Hitachi guys (carbed, only, I know) the TEC seal will fit, but it's pretty tight in the bore, and you must be careful installing it.

[MessyHonda]

i took off my ignitor on my car and removed it to some ware outside... i got the f22 dizzy tho

[Kabuki]

Wait... Why would you move the igniter outside?

[Dr_Snooz]

Thanks for starting this thread.

I have a spare distributor full of red dust that I figure I can't make any worse by overhauling the whole thing. Getting the whole distributor apart wasn't too bad. It looks like the vacuum advance will be the pricey part. I doubt I'd find any good ones at the pull-a-part given the 20 years of desert heat they've all had to endure.

I somehow missed this one. The bearing should be available from any bearing supply house. If memory serves, it's just a standard sealed cartridge. I think Napa carries the bushing.

Try oiling the vacuum advance first. You'll be surprised what that'll do.

Finding parts is the killer when doing a major overhaul, so that's why I came up with this. A complete overhaul is nearly impossible, so you better keep the dizzie you have tip top.


Somewhat off-topic: does anyone know how to test those ICMs? I've been looking all over for some kind of diagnostic, but can't find anything. It's an expensive part, so I'd really like to be sure it's bad when I finally have to buy one.

[DBMaster]

I searched and found an old post by LXi-Incredible. He mentioned that he had a source for the bearing and bushing. I'll mention again that I had good luck with Purvis Bearing. I just happened to be driving by one in Greenville and stopped in. If you have your original bearing they can take measurements from it. Their catalog is extensive and I'll bet that there is one that will work in their product line. I PM'ed LXi-I for the source. If you go rebuilt or used my one recommendation is that you reuse the ignitor from yours - assuming it's good. Get some heat sink compound and put a glob between the ignitor and distributor housing. It appears that the housing is used as a heat sink. I will post the response I get.

[DBMaster]

I got this info from LX-incredible. He had previously located the parts to do his own rebuild.

$7.16 F2100-65416 NOK Distributor Seal (DriveWire.com)
$5.39 6201-ZZ-12 12.50mm x OD: 32mm x W: 10mm (BearingsDirect.com)

Thanks again, LX-i!

[G. White]

This is a great thread. Just got done doing this one and even though my dizzy was in pretty good shape the grease/lube that comes from the factory over time turns into a sticky tar like substance.
A couple of things I discovered was......taking it out of the car and working on it was pretty easy. I ended up taking off the plate with the plastic ring ( I think its in one of the pics) anyways there is a set of tiny ball bearings that go around the perimeter of that rings that I lubed. And the reluctor is a lot easier to remove if pried from two sides simultaneously...it pops right off. I used this opportunity afterwards to check my timing and found that my timing had been so far off that I had to look up into the timing hole to find the mark.
My tach doesn't bounce anymore on startup and hopefully stays that way.

[LX-incredible]

I got this info from LX-incredible. He had previously located the parts to do his own rebuild.

$7.16 F2100-65416 NOK Distributor Seal (DriveWire.com)
$5.39 6201-ZZ-12 12.50mm x OD: 32mm x W: 10mm (BearingsDirect.com)

Thanks again, LX-i!

No problem.

Bearingsdirect doesn't seem to sell this size anymore and I can't find any other suppliers
6201-2RS-1/2 is the next closest, would be 12.7 mm ID. Should be fine as the 12.5 mm I used had to be pressed on, while the stock usually come off by hand.
http://cgi.ebay.com/6201-2RS-1-2-Ball-Bearings-1-2-x32mm-NEW-BEARING_W0QQitemZ260165032883QQcmdZViewItem

[Kabuki]

I somehow missed this one. The bearing should be available from any bearing supply house. If memory serves, it's just a standard sealed cartridge.

I've been to three places in my own town. They aren't a standard size.


Somewhat off-topic: does anyone know how to test those ICMs? I've been looking all over for some kind of diagnostic, but can't find anything. It's an expensive part, so I'd really like to be sure it's bad when I finally have to buy one.

Offhand, I don't know how. But I do know that the procedure is outlined in the factory service manual.

[Dr_Snooz]

I
Offhand, I don't know how. But I do know that the procedure is outlined in the factory service manual.

Uh huh. I'll give you a dollar if you can find it.

[AZmike]

I found a place that carries the 12.5x32x10 bearing. Unfortunately since it's an unusual size it's $22.



Hi Mike,

Thank you for your inquiry. We do have this bearing in stock. Nachi brand, 6201/012-2NSL. This is a special series bearing due to the odd 12.5mm bore. Cost $22.00 each.
To save you shipping cost over UPS, we can ship via the US Postal Service for $2.00.

Best Regards,

Charlie Rowlett
CBR Bearing Co.
(800) 769-5388
(760) 731-7207
[email protected]

[Oldblueaccord]

6201 sounds like a pretty common size. I think we had this hashed out before but w2 never posted back anything on it.

[Oldblueaccord]

https://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-accords/58369-honda-oem-dizzy-vs-aftermarket-2.html

holy long searches.......


gets informational around the #30 posts.

[AZmike]

6201 sounds like a pretty common size. I think we had this hashed out before but w2 never posted back anything on it.


wp

It's common with 12 mm, 12.7 mm and 0.500" ID, not 12.5 mm.

[MessyHonda]

Wait... Why would you move the igniter outside?

i thought it was the reason my car was acting up after i put in my msd box

[rfiks]

i just priced distibutors at checker-kragen: tech $24 and hitachi $37. what part costs 4-$600

[G. White]

I went on the junkyard crawl today and looked under the hood of one of the twenty some-odd three geez that they have and found a dizzy that looked fairly new.
I yanked it and turned it over to see a reman stamp on the bottom.
From there I proceeded to strip the ever living hell out of the thing including pulling the bearing and bushing.
The bearing has a part number of 6201 lu
A simple roller bearing with many applications---motorcycles, mopeds, fords, ect. Should be easy to find.

[Dr_Snooz]

i just priced distibutors at checker-kragen: tech $24 and hitachi $37. what part costs 4-$600

Twenty-four dollars will buy you a cap, not a distributor. Anyway, I don't buy parts from Kragen anymore since one of their alternators left me stranded in the middle of nowhere.

[cygnus x-1]

I went on the junkyard crawl today and looked under the hood of one of the twenty some-odd three geez that they have and found a dizzy that looked fairly new.
I yanked it and turned it over to see a reman stamp on the bottom.
From there I proceeded to strip the ever living hell out of the thing including pulling the bearing and bushing.
The bearing has a part number of 6201 lu
A simple roller bearing with many applications---motorcycles, mopeds, fords, ect. Should be easy to find.


It's a simple roller bearing but it's a very uncommon size. 6201 is usually 12mm ID by 32mm OD. But this one has a special bore so it's 12.5mm ID. It's bizarre and I didn't quite believe it, so I disassembled my old dizzy. Sure enough, 12.5mm ID. And it is NOT 0.500". If we were in Asia it would be much easier to get since they have much more available in metric parts.

C|

[rfiks]

Twenty-four dollars will buy you a cap, not a distributor. Anyway, I don't buy parts from Kragen anymore since one of their alternators left me stranded in the middle of nowhere. the price was 4 both cap & rotor- if i dont buy fom kragen where else can i go???

[Vanilla Sky]

We're talking about a distributor, not a cap and rotor. A distributor is $246.99 with a $75 core through Advance.

[G. White]

It's a simple roller bearing but it's a very uncommon size. 6201 is usually 12mm ID by 32mm OD. But this one has a special bore so it's 12.5mm ID. It's bizarre and I didn't quite believe it, so I disassembled my old dizzy. Sure enough, 12.5mm ID. And it is NOT 0.500". If we were in Asia it would be much easier to get since they have much more available in metric parts.

C|

Ahhhhh, I see what you are saying......I wonder where cardone, beck arnley, ect get theirs from?

Wanna take a field trip to taiwan?

[DBMaster]

The one that came in my rebuilt unit and the original distributor from the car were ball bearings not rollers. In this application I am not sure that it makes much difference. If it's easy to find a 12mm bore and really hard to find a 12.5mm bore why not just machine the shaft or the inside of the bearing a bit? From what I saw of my original bearing it could probably have been salvaged with a good solvent cleaning and regreasing. Maybe the "lazy man's" way of doing it is better than buying a rebuilt. My opinion is leaning that way.

[Vanilla Sky]

Maybe the "lazy man's" way of doing it is better than buying a rebuilt. My opinion is leaning that way.


I agree. Most of the parts work fine in these distributors. A good cleaning and lube and they're good for a while longer. Tearing one down completely and cleaning everything then lubing it and reassembling it would more than likely yield a nearly new distributor.

[Dr_Snooz]

the price was 4 both cap & rotor- if i dont buy fom kragen where else can i go???

Napa's good.

[cygnus x-1]

The one that came in my rebuilt unit and the original distributor from the car were ball bearings not rollers. In this application I am not sure that it makes much difference. If it's easy to find a 12mm bore and really hard to find a 12.5mm bore why not just machine the shaft or the inside of the bearing a bit? From what I saw of my original bearing it could probably have been salvaged with a good solvent cleaning and regreasing. Maybe the "lazy man's" way of doing it is better than buying a rebuilt. My opinion is leaning that way.


Technically that's true. It is a ball bearing and not a roller bearing. But it's still a crazy size.

Machining down the shaft occurred to me as well but then you would have to change the bushing as well. And there is a seal between the bearing and bushing that probably wouldn't seal as well on the now smaller shaft. As long as the bearing doesn't have any play in it you can pry the seals off and clean/regrease. But if it's sloppy there isn't anything you can do.

C|

[DBMaster]

The shaft has varying diameters from the bottom to top so you can machine only the "lobe" that goes through the bearing, but if I had known how good the bearing was going to look (even dry) I would have just rebuilt mine instead of ordering a rebuilt in the first place. I think my bushing was actually fine because it gets oiled by the engine so I would have had to replace the seal and do a clean & lube. Maybe I would have fixed the weight shafts as well, but my original plastic bushings were still mostly intact.

[rfiks]

We're talking about a distributor, not a cap and rotor. A distributor is $246.99 with a $75 core through Advance. i thought a cap and rotor = a distributor... im a noob(deedeeedeeee)

[evil88accordLX]

It's a simple roller bearing but it's a very uncommon size. 6201 is usually 12mm ID by 32mm OD. But this one has a special bore so it's 12.5mm ID. It's bizarre and I didn't quite believe it, so I disassembled my old dizzy. Sure enough, 12.5mm ID. And it is NOT 0.500". If we were in Asia it would be much easier to get since they have much more available in metric parts.

C|

25.4mm in one inch. that would make the ID 0.4921245"

[ecogabriel]

Good!

I had done sort of same with mine; the bastard was leaking oil so the disassemble went all the way down to the shaft seal where the crank sensors are. Oil was everywhere so I wanted to get rid of the leaks

Yes, it is quite a bit of work, and you need to be very careful on how the thing is assembled BEFORE disassembling so it can be put back together again in the proper order -otherwise I doubt it will work again. But it is worth it; it does not leak anymore and in addition it works smooth now.

I got the seal from some online shop that carries Honda stuff (I do not recall the name) ; it is not that hard to get but expensive because it is not a standard size.
The bearing is a problem though; 6201 is a standard size in theory (32 mm outer diameter) but the inner diameter is NOT standard; standard inner dia. are 12mm, 1/2" (12.7 mm), and 13 mm can be found also.
The Nachi 6201 012nsl (the code on my bearing) is special size; outer dia. is the standard 32 mm but inner dia. is 12.5mm.

If yours is not that bad (mine was turning a little rough and some red dust was present) you may try to re-pack the thing with grease. The bearing seals were a little broken (they're plastic or rubber, the so-called sealed bearings) so it was not hard to push good high-temp grease in (I used Durablend grease that is supposedly high-temperature). I used the same grease to lube all the other moving parts in the distr. and got silicone grease for the ICM from Radioshack (3 bucks tops)). you do not need a ton of sil. grease as its function is ensuring ICM's proper heat dissipation via the distributor body acting as a big "heatsink". Just a thin layer spreaded evenly over the ICM's surface

The think works without a problem so far, and using hi-temp grease should give more time between services as grease would stay longer. The old boys need a little extra attention to continue giving faithful service and keeping the big $$$ in our pockets

[G. White]

Offhand, I don't know how. But I do know that the procedure is outlined in the factory service manual.[/QUOTE]

Dizzy overhaul pages 778-779 in factory service manual.

[jdmaccordnut]

So does this work with Hitachi dizzies? How do I know which one I have?

[AC439]

I haven't posted for a long while here but this thread got my attention. So I just tried to do the same on my dist but with it on the car. No problems taking screws apart except the two that hold the vacuum base plate (where the yellow plastic ring/bearing are). Also, the tiny retaining clip of the vacuum advance popped right out when I was removing it and it ended up disappeared ! I figured that the vacuum will probable not going to dislodge so I just put it back together. Unable to get to the mechanical advance, I ended up spraying silicon lubrican through the few tiny holes into the mechanical advance. So, I'm hoping everything there will be lubed. Maybe if I have taken out the dist and put it on the bench, I may be able to get the last two screws out. Oh well.......

[DBMaster]

When I rebuilt mine I had the little advantage of having a Hi-Test rebuilt unit from eBay. I didn't want to install it on the car because it would have been the third one in three months and the second one almost left me stranded - the car died in my neighborhood on my way home one day. The first one wouldn't even send spark at all. They had at least cleaned up and lubed the advance plate bearing and used a brand new main bearing and shaft seal. The housing was acid cleaned and painted. I had to drill out one of the screws in my original because it was corroded firmly in place. The housing is aluminum so if you have to drill out a screw you can at least be able to find a replacement that will work. You can get a pack of assorted circlips in the "HELP" parts section of an auto parts place. One of the clips in the pack should fit the vacuum advance shaft. I don't think it will come off on its own either, but remember that the lenght of the VA shaft is adjustable by turning it so try not to change the length if you remove the VA from the distributor body. Of course, if you want to "play" with more or less advance that's an easy way to do it.

[G. White]

So what is it that causes the tach bouncing and other freaky happenings on startup? The pick up, the ICU, starting to give up the ghost?

[DBMaster]

So what is it that causes the tach bouncing and other freaky happenings on startup? The pick up, the ICU, starting to give up the ghost?

I wish I could tell you. The tach is wired to the coil. When one of the reman distributors I tried gave out whatever happened shorted out the coil, too. Maybe you need to also replace the coil?

[Dr_Snooz]

So what is it that causes the tach bouncing and other freaky happenings on startup? The pick up, the ICU, starting to give up the ghost?

That's the $64k question really. I know the lazy rebuild nearly eliminated most of that for me. It's creeping back, so I'll have to dig in again and see what's what. Like DB says, the tach runs off the coil but my coil checks out okay, so I don't know what to think.

An old-school mechanic heard mine starting one morning with the electrical cutout and all and he assured me it was the distributor. Because oiling up the advance mechanisms helped so much, I suspect having those gummed up causes a bad spark/coil misfire kinda thing, but I haven't verified it.

I'd give my eye teeth for a ICM troubleshooting procedure. The manual doesn't have one, so I might just see if I can extrapolate from my '93 manual.

[G. White]

That's the $64k question really. I know the lazy rebuild nearly eliminated most of that for me. It's creeping back, so I'll have to dig in again and see what's what. Like DB says, the tach runs off the coil but my coil checks out okay, so I don't know what to think.

An old-school mechanic heard mine starting one morning with the electrical cutout and all and he assured me it was the distributor. Because oiling up the advance mechanisms helped so much, I suspect having those gummed up causes a bad spark/coil misfire kinda thing, but I haven't verified it.

I'd give my eye teeth for a ICM troubleshooting procedure. The manual doesn't have one, so I might just see if I can extrapolate from my '93 manual.

I feel your pain, mine comes back every once in a while--but it's considerably better than it used to be. On occasion my car won't crank so I have to roll it a few inches then it is good. (Manual tranny)

I did a little wiring research and found that the pickup coil has a blue wire that passes through the ignitor unit and on to the coil----it passes through the coil and goes on to emission control unit, fuel cutoff relay, tachometer, and cruise control unit.

I also found this little nugget of info------
Note: The radio noise condenser is intended to reduce ignition noise however, condensor failure may cause the engine to stop running.

[Dr_Snooz]

I feel your pain, mine comes back every once in a while--but it's considerably better than it used to be. On occasion my car won't crank so I have to roll it a few inches then it is good. (Manual tranny)

I did a little wiring research and found that the pickup coil has a blue wire that passes through the ignitor unit and on to the coil----it passes through the coil and goes on to emission control unit, fuel cutoff relay, tachometer, and cruise control unit.

I also found this little nugget of info------
Note: The radio noise condenser is intended to reduce ignition noise however, condensor failure may cause the engine to stop running.

Well, if you figure it out, everyone here will owe you a six-pack.

Your non-start problem sounds like a bad starter to me. Possibly a buggered flywheel.

[jdmaccordnut]

How do you know if you have Hitachi or Tec?

[steveko]

The ignitor will be on the outside of the Tec.

[AC439]

This is an additional follow up to my previous post about fiddling around with the dist while it was still on the car.

Today, I finally got a chance to work on it again. So, I yanked it out from the car and put it on the bench. After some struggling, I was able to get the vacuum portion out of the dist and access the mechanical advance.

Instead of just dropping oil on it, I decided to take things apart so I could clean it completely. I first noticed the springs have stretched and they don't close the weight completely. I yanked out the shaft and found the grease inside has definitely turned into tar and it was very sticky. I cleaned everything well after I took them apart and then applied bearing grease over all the moving parts and put them back together. I briefly recompressed the springs and put them back in place. Checked all movements and then put the vacuum advance plate back inside the dist after lubed the yellow plastic bearing with 10w-30 oil. I bought a pack of assorted "E" clips from autozone but none of them would fit to replace the disappeared clip for the vacuum advance rod. I figured it would not likely come off so I put things back together onto the car.

Road test shows the car has regained low end torque and accelerates faster. The engine acts smooth and gives less engine noise.

I declare success although I have yet to replace the springs as well as need to get the replacement E-clips. I'm happy.

If anyone has experience about getting replacement springs, please let me know.

[DBMaster]

In another post somebody bought an advance curve kit. It is from "Mr. Gasket" and comes with various weights and springs for old GM distributors. I think he was able to use a pair of those springs as the kit comes with several pairs. The reman unit I used from Hi Test had new springs in it. Maybe they might tell you where they get them? 800-347-6999 is their number. I spoke with Terry several times and he seemed willing to share knowledge.

[G. White]

My problems came back.......... bouncing tach on startup, sounds like ignition is going to give up the ghost, blah blah blah. I swapped in an ICM that I "borrowed:lol:" from the wrecking yard a while back from a vehicle that had higher mileage than my own. I think it made the problem even worse. I would like to cut one of those open to see if it suffers from the same solder problems as our relays. I know those units are subjected to a lot of constant heat for years and years. I will probably have to man up and pay the $100.00 for a new one. If that doesn't work, I will swap the pickup/stator another 100 bones and see if that helps.

We will solve this scooby doo mystery!

[AC439]

In another post somebody bought an advance curve kit. It is from "Mr. Gasket" and comes with various weights and springs for old GM distributors. I think he was able to use a pair of those springs as the kit comes with several pairs. The reman unit I used from Hi Test had new springs in it. Maybe they might tell you where they get them? 800-347-6999 is their number. I spoke with Terry several times and he seemed willing to share knowledge.

Thanks. What I'm afraid of is the GM springs have a different spring constant therefore making the dist's mechanical advance properties different from original. But since the springs in my dist are stretched, I think anything new is better than the worn springs? I'm going to drive the car for a few more days. I think if everything goes well and my MPG stays up, I'm not going to act like a perfectionist on the springs.

[DBMaster]

I emailed the guy at Hi-Test. I proposed the idea of selling parts if he was not willing to share his source. We'll see if I get a response.

[AC439]

Thanks for checking that at Hi-Test.

Well, I have driven the car a little more and the MPG has dropped. I think I made a mistake by re-compressing the springs. Now the springs are tighter and definitely gives less advance at higher RPM. I have also noticed the pickup is not as brisk compare to the result after my first attempt to lube the mechanism. So, I'm going to disassembly it again in a few days and re-stretch the springs to the way they were before (hopefully).

-AC

p.s. BTW, when I checked the vacuum advance, I couldn't get it to hold vacuum. It sucks air out of the other port. But if I plug one of the ports, then it will hold vacuum. Do I have a broken vacuum advance ?

[LX-incredible]

Thanks for checking that at Hi-Test.

Well, I have driven the car a little more and the MPG has dropped. I think I made a mistake by re-compressing the springs. Now the springs are tighter and definitely gives less advance at higher RPM. I have also noticed the pickup is not as brisk compare to the result after my first attempt to lube the mechanism. So, I'm going to disassembly it again in a few days and re-stretch the springs to the way they were before (hopefully).

-AC

p.s. BTW, when I checked the vacuum advance, I couldn't get it to hold vacuum. It sucks air out of the other port. But if I plug one of the ports, then it will hold vacuum. Do I have a broken vacuum advance ?

These distributors have a 2 stage mechanical advance. The coarser spring needs to remain "stretched" for the advance to work properly.

I seriously doubt that they'll give you their secret chinese source, if they're even using new parts...

[Oldblueaccord]

Lighter springs should let the advance come in earlier then a heavy spring. I think its how far the weights move is the amount of advance.


wp

[AC439]

Yeah, I went back to the first picture and definitely saw the two springs are somewhat different. It seems like one has 5 turns and the other has 6 turns. They also look stretched. I think I mistakenly thought they have stretched over the years so I compressed them.

What about the vacuum advance? I couldn't get it to hold vacuum. It sucks air out of the other port. But if I plug one of the ports, then it will somewhat hold a vacuum but with a leak. I think I have a broken vacuum advance, right? Also, I think I found a thread about buying the Honda vacuum advance on an online dealer for less than $40 but I can't find the thread anymore. It is definitely not Majestic Honda. I went to Majestic honda and they charge 5 bucks for handling and 13 bucks for shipping. So the whole vacuum comes to about the same as I buy locally from a dealer. I also found the vacuum advance listed on rockauto (model V330) for about $55. Has anyone use that from rockauto before?

Thanks.- AC

[Dr_Snooz]

Yeah, I went back to the first picture and definitely saw the two springs are somewhat different. It seems like one has 5 turns and the other has 6 turns. They also look stretched. I think I mistakenly thought they have stretched over the years so I compressed them.

What about the vacuum advance? I couldn't get it to hold vacuum. It sucks air out of the other port. But if I plug one of the ports, then it will somewhat hold a vacuum but with a leak. I think I have a broken vacuum advance, right? Also, I think I found a thread about buying the Honda vacuum advance on an online dealer for less than $40 but I can't find the thread anymore. It is definitely not Majestic Honda. I went to Majestic honda and they charge 5 bucks for handling and 13 bucks for shipping. So the whole vacuum comes to about the same as I buy locally from a dealer. I also found the vacuum advance listed on rockauto (model V330) for about $55. Has anyone use that from rockauto before?

Thanks.- AC

It's bad. Take your vacuum pump to the junkyard and find one that still holds vac. That's your cheapest option.

[Dr_Snooz]

My problems came back.......... bouncing tach on startup, sounds like ignition is going to give up the ghost, blah blah blah. I swapped in an ICM that I "borrowed:lol:" from the wrecking yard a while back from a vehicle that had higher mileage than my own. I think it made the problem even worse. I would like to cut one of those open to see if it suffers from the same solder problems as our relays. I know those units are subjected to a lot of constant heat for years and years. I will probably have to man up and pay the $100.00 for a new one. If that doesn't work, I will swap the pickup/stator another 100 bones and see if that helps.

We will solve this scooby doo mystery!

I can't remember, did you check your vacuum advance diaphragm? It's holding vacuum right?

[DBMaster]

I know that at least one of the diagrams I saw showed two springs (one within the other) for each weight. My reman had only one spring per weight. Once I got into the guts of my original I noted that it also only used one spring per weight. I don't know what the new one I have in there now has. I have noticed no differences in acceleration, fuel economy, or smoothness with any of the units.

[LX-incredible]

Lighter springs should let the advance come in earlier then a heavy spring. I think its how far the weights move is the amount of advance.


wp

That is correct. Both weights move simultaneously. The lighter spring lets them out for the first stage, then the pins come in contact with the heavy spring. Try turning your rotor by hand and you will see what I mean.

[LX-incredible]

I know that at least one of the diagrams I saw showed two springs (one within the other) for each weight. My reman had only one spring per weight. Once I got into the guts of my original I noted that it also only used one spring per weight. I don't know what the new one I have in there now has. I have noticed no differences in acceleration, fuel economy, or smoothness with any of the units.

I've had quite a few of these apart and have never come across one with 2 per weight.

[DBMaster]

I can't remember, did you check your vacuum advance diaphragm? It's holding vacuum right?

That's always a good question. Here's an interesting observation, though. I replaced my vacuum module a few years ago when I applied vacuum to it and it would not hold. I thought my surging idle that happened when coasting on hot days (over 80) might be due to that. Even though it would not hold vacuum when applied with a hand pump the advance was still maintained as long as vacuum continued to be applied. I am wondering if there is a chance that it actually is not intended to hold vacuum once vacuum is absent at the ports. It also did not resolve my surging issue. None of the many parts I have replaced since that started have done anything for that.

[Dr_Snooz]

No, it should hold vacuum. The vacuum source will fall once the car is turned off, so you wouldn't need to design that into the diaphragm. I'd say you have a vacuum leak.

I just did another lazy rebuild on my dizzie. I used heavier weight oil this time and very thick and tacky hi-temp, waterproof grease. I'll post back with my results over time.

[DBMaster]

I just wish I could find it! It has been sought after by the mechanics at McNatt Honda as well as by Danny's Import Services. If that's what it is it is damned elusive. I figured maybe it was a part in the transmission that controls downshifts, or the lockup mechanism in the torque converter. That was just because no one can find a leak, or any other problem that could cause that surge. I more or less stopped worrying about it as a sign of imminent failure after five years or so of it.

[Dr_Snooz]

I More Or Less Stopped Worrying About It As A Sign Of Imminent Failure After Five Years Or So Of It.

Lol!

[jdmaccordnut]

I just did this, but didn't pull the whole thing apart. Instead I just oiled the bearings, because the rest of the thing felt okay, even after 273,000 miles. I also replaced the rotor/cap. It still bounces, but not nearly as much, it is able to idle a little lower, and it has MORE POWER!

[DBMaster]

I don't think the guy at Hi-Tes is going to email me back. :)

[jdmaccordnut]

Also, make sure to order a gasket for the rotor cap.... mine fell into like 10 pieces, so I put it back on with silicone. It looks kinda ghet, but whatever.

[AC439]

I don't think the guy at Hi-Tes is going to email me back. :)

Thanks for trying.

I have taken apart the dissy again. I expected to see one larger spring and one smaller spring. However, the two springs look identical and they have about 8 turns. Therefore, I briefly extended one spring to the way like when I first took them apart. So, now they should come in two stages. I still haven't got the vacuum advanced yet. I disco the vacuum lines from the advance and plug them (since it is not working and have a leak, I think plugging them makes sense). There is not a lot of junk yards around and those nearby I checked and they don't have it. So, I'm going to order the one from RockAuto when I order the suspension stuffs later. Oh well...... bad economy....not enough work.....not enough money to buy parts to fix the car....

-AC

[Oldblueaccord]

Also, make sure to order a gasket for the rotor cap.... mine fell into like 10 pieces, so I put it back on with silicone. It looks kinda ghet, but whatever.


That might end up causing moisture to build up in the cap if it is not vent well. We used to do it four wheeling all the time I learned the hadr way on that one.

Actually on a whole nother vein some racers vent there cap to let the ozone out. Ill let you guys search for it.

[Dr_Snooz]

I always just put the pieces back carefully and jam the cap on quickly before they fall out again...

I've only had the tach hop one time since my last lazy rebuild. Woohoo! I putting crazy miles on the car these days, by the way.

[DBMaster]

I bought a new rubber gasket last time I ordered a cap from Majestic. For the 99 Oasis I used to have (98 Odyssey) when I ordered the cap from Majestic it came with a new gasket. No such luck for the 3G, but it's a cheap part.

[import racer]

Can I use dielectric grease on the igniter to dizzy body or should it be silicone.

[ecogabriel]

Can I use dielectric grease on the igniter to dizzy body or should it be silicone.

Silicone grease - heatsink compound - is what should be used.

Radioshack sells it for 3-4 bucks a piece. You need VERY LITTLE - a very thin coat to ensure proper heat transfer... that's all.

If you have ever taken apart your computer's CPU heatsink, the same compound to ensure heat transfer can be used (although that is more expensive)

[import racer]

In the 4 dizzys I have all of them have the same type of springs,They both look the same except one spring looks like it is stretched more than the other one.

[Dr_Snooz]

Can I use dielectric grease on the igniter to dizzy body or should it be silicone.

They are the same thing.

[Dr_Snooz]

Just a quick note: I put my jumpy tach to bed for good and all when I replaced my ICM.

[POS carb]

here are some pics I took while tearing down my Tec:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/758889/1987-honda-accord/page-11

[A20A1]

Good pics Eric.


I see one of my pics up there snooz, I recognize it from the dizzy dissection thread. They are both of carbureted dizzys though. TEC and Hitachi. Possibly why people are getting confused about the springs being different.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53918

I don't mind having a distributor rebuild How-to, we can pool the images, possibly get sharper ones. I know I'd like more pics of a cleaner distributor and advance diaphragm without the tape job. :(

[Dr_Snooz]

Oh no! I got caught plagiarizing!!! Ack!

Thanks A20A1!

[POS carb]

holy shit it's mike! where've u been?

[niles]

Old thread but good info! So I wanted to add to it...

Dr_Snooz is this the test procedure you were looking for? If it is, please, keep your eye teeth.

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a607/NilesHenke/Honda/IgniterTesting_zpsc4a1c943.gif

[Dr_Snooz]

Yes it is! Someone else clued me on another thread, so I added the relevant info to the manual and re-uploaded it. Thanks for putting it here in the this thread!

[rigel]

resurrecting this thread because it's relevant to me.

because i had the dizzy and therm housing off and needed something to do while it was raining (no garage), and because one of the nuts in the thermo housing is so corroded the head torqued off, i decided to completely overhaul the dizzy.

first, the vacuum advance housing was completely destroyed, so i need to go to the yard for another anyway (and hope it hasnt been scooped yet).

but taking out and trying to clean the breaker plate was just a bad move all around. the plastic bearing retainer just disintegrated, and shortly thereafter the bearings fell out entirely. oops.

if i could find just a source for the retainer + bearings that would work fine for me, as the rest of the dizzy cleaned up nicely, but that seems like a real long shot. the little springs on the governor are pretty loose and dont have much spring in them though, so those maybe could stand to be replaced too, but i have no idea how much force they were intended by the factory to make.

so, i expect i'm basically just going to have to get a while new distributor from the yard, huh?

[Dr_Snooz]

Wish you had read this thread before opening it up: http://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-accords/64421-distributor-overhaul.html?highlight=distributor+rebuild. I only came up with the Lazy Rebuild as a stopgap to nurse the old distributors along and prevent having to rebuild. Anyway, Richporter makes new distributors for us now and sells them on eBay (Distributor Richporter TD43K Fits 86 89 Honda Accord 2 0L L4 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Distributor-Richporter-TD43K-fits-86-89-Honda-Accord-2-0L-L4-/290694580327?fits=Year%3A1987|Model%3AAccord&hash=item43aebf4867&vxp=mtr)). They get good reviews and are entirely new (not reman). It makes little sense to fart around trying to overhaul an old one with parts that don't exist. Just buy a new distributor and drive.

[rigel]

i already pulled one that looked like it was in good condition, so I'll nurse it along for now. new is >$100 more and I'm trying to do this on a budget....

[superburner2]

Do you have a link to a good replacement source for the TEC distributor? The link on the March28 post seems different than my dizzy.

I've seen this one, but seems pretty expensive to me:
86 87 88 89 Honda Accord 2 0 New Tec Distributor TD01N | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-87-88-89-Honda-Accord-2-0-NEW-TEC-Distributor-TD01N-/300545267658?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1989|Model%3AAccord&hash=item45f9e4d7ca&vxp=mtr)

Thanks!

[Dr_Snooz]

Try this one: Distributor Richporter TD01N Fits 86 89 Honda Accord 2 0L L4 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Distributor-Richporter-TD01N-fits-86-89-Honda-Accord-2-0L-L4-/281572666549?fits=Year%3A1989|Model%3AAccord&hash=item418f09ecb5&vxp=mtr)

[superburner2]

Thanks! $80 cheaper!
I decided to do a re-condition.
Details here: http://www.3geez.com/forum/efi-tech/76806-efi-distributor-teardown.html#post1172158
But next time I have dizzy issues I'll be ordering this one - assuming it doesnt disappear.

[Dr_Snooz]

Completely revised and updated.

[Blainethemono]

I havent seen this addressed here in this thread, but some TEC Dizzies have the plastic vacuum advance like shown on page 1, and are attached via the infamous C clip. Others have the metal vacuum advance and it has a screw that attaches it. I have one of each, where the metal vacuum one has a shot TDC sensor and the plastic vacuum cover snaps broke off and its held in place with wire ties & super glue. :violin:

$64,000 question, can I morph the metal vacuum advance onto the presently working "plastic" TEC dizzy and get the best of both worlds, a working TDC sensor AND a solid non breakable metal vacuum advance??

Thanks!

[Dr_Snooz]

That's a great question. You have the two. Give it a shot and let us know.

[ShiRen]

I just want to add, removing the ring that holds the pin in the sprocket in place and removing the 3 screws under the advance mechanism easily removes the shaft and dorman kit #917-136 is the shaft seal

[Dr_Snooz]

That is valuable info indeed! Thank you!