New Member in Need of Help

[ZeroLux]

Ok so here goes. I've had my car for about 3-4 months now, it's an '89 Accord LXi (A20A3) Automatic trans (ugh). Car has some issues. I am new to Honda's for the most part and various things I've tried so far have done little to no good. Any advice would be greatly appreciated since this is my only car at the moment and it's driving me quite insane.

1. Transmission seems to "hunt" at city speeds (between 40-60mph for the most part), feels like it's bumping from 4th to 3rd then back up again- repeatedly. Aggrivatingly. Makes the overall ride suck and makes me want to drive it into a tree at high speeds. I have been told there's a cable that might be out of adjustment but I was not given clear information concerning this. Possible? I have no idea how the automatic in this car functions so any information would be useful.

2. Random (lack of) Idle. Cold, Hot, Luke-Warm, this car has some serious issues with RPM's when out of gear. From a cold start in the morning she lingers around 2k, if I give her some juice and let up pretty quickly she'll break back to between 1500 and 2000 again and bounce randomly between the two. Once she's warm if I put it into N she might hold at 1100, she might bounce between 1100 and 1800-ish for no reason. The idler valve was recommended to me to be replaced by a local but at an estimated cost of almost $200 I'd like to explore alternatives first.

3. I'm pretty sure this next issue a combination of the trans/motor mount and the wild idle problem but shifting to Reverse in the morning is a pretty unpleasant experience for both car and driver. The trans slams back with some pretty decent force and jolts the whole car until the gear is seated and ready. I noticed a while back that it looks like the trans has now left a mark on the K member on the rear of the engine where it makes contact. Any decent fix for this?

4. This is where it gets seriously annoying. I cannot- CANNOT drive this car on the highway or any city road above 55-60mph for a prolonged amount of time. Should I decide to do this the results are as follows:

- sustained highway speeds, the car starts off ok at first but after a few miles runs like crap and eventually starts sending smoke out the back of the tailpipe (oil) and I get valve rattle.

- city driving at 55mph is possible sometimes but if driven for more than 10 miles or so, the next time i stop (red light or whatever) and idle for a bit, when I start to drive again i get more smoke and valve rattle at low speeds, usually lasting only a few seconds since I ease up on the throttle, and it goes away as quickly as it appeared. after that all is fine so long as I dont dog the gas too hard for a few minutes.

So far I have used a bottle of SeaFoam direct into the brake booster hose, changed the spark plugs and used NGK Power Plus, replaced the wires with NGK's, new dist cap and rotor [the combination of which made it sound better and run smoother at least]. I changed the oil recently and did not notice (nor did my mechanic) any gasoline smell from the old oil. I removed the valve cover and did discover that they need a little adjustment, either that or I didn't consider at the time the position of the cams since it looks like 8 of the 12 valves are "loose". Checked the PCV valve and hose, no residue of oil inside.

A little bit of guesstimated history about the car. It has just under 240k miles on it, believed to be the stock engine, intake system has either been rebuilt or replaced in the last two years by the original owner, car MIGHT have been overheated a time or two since there is a new radiator installed and the remains of JB Weld on the upper support bar where the cap goes. I'm thinking the former owner patched the old radiator before he replaced it and got sloppy with it. I have not had a good chance to do a compression test on it yet unfortunately. I have personally replaced since owned the water pump (which was nice enough to rip my pulley in half going down the road) and the alternator that left me high and dry at the grocery store one afternoon. Neither was difficult to fix just unexpected and annoying. There is no oil in my coolant and no coolant in my oil, assuming the gasket is in reasonable shape. Car is 100% stock, no modifications or aftermarket accessories installed, even the radio and speakers are original.

Sorry for the long post, but I am running out of idea's and options here. I have to keep this car alive or with minimal downtime at all costs. Suggestions?

- ZeroLux

[nswst8]

Automatic Trans not my forte, but a fluid change is the first item of order after that, the auto guys from this forum should be able to give you some ideas. (I have a manual)

But the IACV can be removed and cleaned. On the bottom of the IACV is a coolant chamber remove the screws and clean this as well. Its good to try this first before replacing @ $200. I got mine from honda for about $145 shipped. I've seen them on ebay for under $50 shipped.

Adjust the valves "WHEN THE ENGINE IS COMPLETELY COLD" usually first thing in the morning.

After you get these things done, set timing and you might have to do a poor mans dizzy rebuild. Theres a thread regaurding this subject.

Sounds like the last owner abused this accord and left you to fix it.

Oh, and WELCOME to the forum.

[Oldblueaccord]

Pre coffee; how much oil do you use by miles? It kinda sounds like the motor is worn out.


wp

[ZeroLux]

My oil consumption does not appear too bad if I drive it like a normal person. I'd say on average I add in 1 quart every couple of weeks or so. Which reminds me, the oil level NEVER CONSUMES PAST 1 QUART... leaving me with the idea that the pickup tube for the upper end is where the start of my problem is. Seems like the oil levels off right below (presumably) where the pickup ends.

Yes, it looks like the former owner, well, I should say former-former owner since the friend of mine that traded me this for no cost (free car! well, originally :help: ) did not have it for very long and was a mechanic who took reasonably good care of it. I am the third owner, the original bought it new back in '89 and owned it until mid last year. I have noticed this car is VERY picky about gasoline quality and with the current state of things you never know if what you are pumping is going to be decent or not. Even if I go to the same place every time it's inconsistent and one day I might get good stuff and the next time total crap. Either way it has a huge impact on how this car runs. Ideally I would like to swap from the Automatic to the Manual trans (anyone have a good faq on that?) if it's not too difficult. So the idler control valve can be cleaned out? Does it require adjustment of any sort if it continues with the problem once it's cleaned? I was told by a few people not to touch the idle set screw in this car since it usually just messes things up.

I had planned on adjusting the valves this weekend. With my schedule I have to be up and out the door early in the morning so a quick A.M. adjustment is out of the question. I have the tools to do that I just need to look up an faq online about it sometime to make sure I have the procedure right. Set the timing? How/Where would I do that? Adjustment of the distributor?

Forgive my partial ignorance, I am used to working on a first generation Dodge Neon (dont laugh I love my old car) and that was pretty much PCM controlled all the way. Whole different ballgame with this thing and that damned squidbox that frankly, worries me.

Any other advice is welcome. At this point I'll try anything within reason and finances to make this thing run right. My biggest gripe isnt the burning oil it's the transmission. Anyone?

Thanks guys!
ZeroLux

[nswst8]

Well, the smoke out of the tail (Bluish smoke) Valve seals. Pull the plugs give us a discription.

Timing, plug the two hoses coming off the vacuum advance. Directly under spark plug closest to the dizzy is the visual window to set the timing. Loosen the dizzy hold down bolts and adjust the timing. Conter clockwise to "ADVANCE", clockwise to "RETARD"

There are no adjustment on the IACV, just use an electrical spray solution.

Manual swap very possible, just get to a junkyard an and negotiate a price for all parts, Tranny, shifter, shifter rods, clutch pedals, clutch cable, Instrument cluster and you might need the ECM and drive shafts if they are different.

Idle adjust is very possible, I use the tach on the car so I get close but not exact. You will pull the 2P connector off the IACV to adjust idle, once adjusted. Then pull ECM fuse to clear memory code. Reconnect 2P connector and your done.

[ZeroLux]

Plugs in it now are new, installed about 1 1/2 - 2 weeks ago. Old ones were Bosch and had a high speed glazed appearance to them but no large amounts of oil residue. Have not pulled the new ones since installation but I can check on that tonight. Can the valve seals be changed without full head removal? Been thinking about it and it does sound like a possibility. I also forgot to mention the rpm range which it usually burns in, slightly under 3k and above and only after hard driving for the most part. I suppose the rattle could be from not only the lack of adjustment on the cam but possibly a detonation problem from burning oil as well?

Thanks again!
ZeroLux

[greentee76]

Welcome to the forum!
On the trans issue I would do a search for TV cable adjustment, I was hoping to find you a how to but didn't find one, however a search did come up with alot of good info.
As far as the oil burning situation, check over the entire PCV system. I had a hole in the hose for the breather box up to the intake that I believe contributed to my excessive oil burning on my old engine. It's kinda hard to get to and inspect but could well be a problem.
Make sure that the valve rattle you're hearing is actually from the valves and not a failing timing belt tensioner. You can put an extension to the adjuster bolt and see if that is where you sound is coming from.
Again welcome, and I hope some of this helps.

[nswst8]

Valve seals can be changed on the car, just have to rent a on the head valve spring compressor.

[ZeroLux]

Had not thought of that. I had planned on getting a block-off plate for the EGR system since in NC it does not need to meet emissions standards anymore and just delete the whole system. It used to flag my engine light when I first got the car and for some odd reason after I replaced the alternator it has not appeared since.

Another side note that I just remembered. Here's where it gets tricky to pinpoint. One would assume rpm's are rpm's, be it in gear or not. Well, if I take the car at 55-60+ speeds to the point where it will normally rattle and choke from a red light... and AT THE RED LIGHT put it in Neutral and soft or hard rev the engine to about 3.5-4k rpm's-- NOTHING happens. No rattle, No smoke, Nothing out of the ordinary... but as soon as I put the car BACK into Drive and move from the red light (especially if it's around a corner, left or right), is when it will blow smoke and chatter. Even if I give it some gas in Neutral before I set off. What I am basically trying to say is it only appears to be giving me this result when the engine is under direct load.

I can't make sense of this since the issues appear at random times and there seems to be no perfect pattern to them yet. I have also experienced the rattle when going up a hill typically on a hotter day and the car lugs in 3rd for a bit. It's not as pronounced of a rattle but it's still there. This happens rarely and only if conditions are right. Steep enough incline, hot/humid enough day, approaching city speeds, maybe some other unidentified factors tossed in.

Sorry to keep adding to the pile of information.

ZeroLux

[nswst8]

If your not getting blowby then your seal and valves stems are probably shot.

You will need a compression check at least and a leak down test.

[ZeroLux]

Yeah that was going to be my next step. Could someone run down a quick overview of how to do that for me? It's been a long while since I last checked compression in a car and I'm no expert. I'm pretty sure the engine has to be cold but were there any other things that needed to be specific to do the test right?

Thanks for all the help guys.

ZeroLux

[nswst8]

Disconnect the coil wire, remove the spark plugs ( I go one at a time), throttle wide open, turn engine over 3-4 times, checking the compressor as it steps up. Someone will have to turn the engine over for you unless you have a remote start trigger.

[Dr_Snooz]

Howdy and welcome. First and foremost, get the shop manual. It is here: http://honda.roadpwnage.com/manuals/pages/usdm-accord-1989-full.php. You are about to become very familiar with it.

In future, I'd recommend dripping these issues on us in individual threads. This one will get confusing before it's all over.

1. Start with a good transmission flush. That will do wonders. Then adjust your throttle cable. That's covered in the shop manual.

2. Start by cleaning the Idle Air Control Valve like nswst suggests. What you describe, however, sounds like a dirty fuel delivery system to me. Run a can of Techron through it. You've already noticed the difference that gas makes, so I encourage you to use only Chevron premium from here on out. It's more expensive, but you get that back in fewer repairs and a happier car.

3. My trans does the same thing. The valve body is wearing out and at some point, you can expect to throw it away. You can help the situation by getting that flush and following up with a good trans fluid. A lot of guys on here swear by the OEM Honda trans fluid. You are also going to need to replace probably all of your engine mounts, the dog bone mounts and the trans mount. From what you describe they are completely toast. Changing them is covered in the manual. Finally, it helps to back into parking places. :dunno:

The MT swap guide is on this site in the How-To section. I'll be doing that when my tranny finally gives up.

4. This is more difficult and worrisome. I might be inclined to agree with Old Blue that your engine is toast, but you want to be sure first. What you describe is an engine that blows oil smoke under load accompanied by engine rattle. Like Greentee, my first thought upon reading about the smoke was PCV. You've done a very basic inspection, but the PCV system is one area where Honda could have done a lot better on these cars. I replaced mine entirely not long ago. Get under the car and look it over properly. Chances are it's a yucky, drippy, clogged up mess. Change the hoses that are hard and leaking and change the valve for good measure. You'll also want to be prepared to replace what you break (and you will break stuff) with Honda or junkyard parts. Nswst is probably on to something with the valve guide seal diagnosis. Those tend to blow a lot of oil into the combustion chamber under load. I'd confirm that with a leak-down test and a vacuum gauge test though. Exhaust restrictions also tend to make engines do funny things under load. You've already had emissions trouble with the EGR, I wonder whether your catalytic converter is clogged as well.

In addition to the leak-down and vacuum gauge tests, do a good compression test. It can't hurt to learn as much as possible about how the engine is working.

As for the "valve rattle," are you sure you aren't hearing pinging? If so, you'll need to get the timing sorted out straight away. That's described in the manual. (I told you you'd be getting familiar with it). You'll need a timing light and a vacuum pump/gauge.

Anyway, welcome again and good luck!

[ZeroLux]

So what you're basically saying is that I should add a moderate 100 shot of Nitrous to it and that should fix the whole thing? Nice. When do I add the turbo turned up to 45psi, before or after I convert it to run on Brown's gas? :D I get what you are saying though, and I did download the service manual the other day to have a look at all it's 995 pages of glorious black and white information.

My biggest concern is the rings being shot, I got this car after my old Neon finally bit it when the stock oil pump that was pulling in close to 200k miles on the ODO went poof. Took the upper cyl with it. It's going to be a long while until I can get around to fixing her and on the road again so I need this 3G to hold out as long as possible without the need for large engine internal's being replaced. I can accept the trans going out better than bad rings since at that point I can do an MTX swap (once i find all the parts).

Thanks for all the information I'll probably work on her this weekend and see if anything else makes sense.

ZeroLux

[LX-incredible]

It sounds like the idle is set too high. Bring engine to operating temp and set how nswst8 describes. Check the idle and advance timing. The springs on the mechanical advance like to wear through and toast the unit. This will result in over advancing the ignition timing. I got some detonation in my case, I'm wondering if that's the "valve noise" you're hearing...
Also sounds like you have a broken mount. I would not recommend a flush on the trans. At that milage you probably be knocking 20 years shit loose to circulate through the system. Do drain the fluid, clean whatever you can off the magnet inside, and fill with honda ATF. Anything else is too thick and will cause harder shifts. I used regular ATF thinned with a shot of brake fluid for a few years with no ill effects, but the honda seems to break down slower and shift a little better. TV cable may need to be adjusted. I thought the trans was on its way out 80K ago with the same symptoms you describe. I am hard on the vehicle in every way, but it's maintained. Keep clean fluid in it and get a external cooler. I don't know where the myth came from that these transmissions were weak, they may be power-hogging and strange-shifting, but not weak.

I still have a full 5-speed swap on standby, just in case. :D

[1ajs]

dude do an oil change put good oil not cheap shit in.

the bad gas issue is because they put ethinal in the gas change ur fuel filters they're 2-6$ a peac and easay to change also try runing premium it has not been fucked with yet. weird idle sounds like fuel filters are gunked up also ur carb boul might have shit in it if its carb if efi try changing ur injectors



u can change the valve seals esay just be carfull u might have to pull the head off if the valve falls in so make sure u have accesse to a torqe rench just in case and read the pdf manual for the right order to loosen and tighten the head bolts same goes for the rocker bolts also u can get a valve spring compressor tool for under 20 bucks wall mart might even have one.. also u mention under load it blows smoke sounds like ur rings are going or u have a crack in a cyld or in the head or the piston?

ur shifting issue hmm i would change the oil on the trany and get a new filter for it... also theres some vacume lines that have to do with the auto trany that might of come off check and see if any of them are off and change ur motor mounts also vac lines being off can cause idle issues

[Oldblueaccord]

Iajas it is an EFI car and I run 30% ethanol so you can cut out 50% of "ur" post right there.


wp

[1ajs]

Iajas it is an EFI car and I run 30% ethanol so you can cut out 50% of "ur" post right there.


wp

ethinal is part of the problem....

[nswst8]

Just remember to put the cylinder your working at TDC that reduce your chances of dropping a valve.