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89sei89dx
11-10-2008, 11:48 PM
i got some pics on hhere finally. i removed everything in the black box and re routed thhe vac lines i had left over. all i have left from the black box is the map sensor and the ignition controll module and thhe cvc valve(constant vaccume controll valve).
<a href="http://s410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/?action=view&current=1108081620b.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1108081620b.jpg" border="0" alt="87 accord fi a20a3 vac lines"></a>

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1110081451a.jpg


http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1030080001.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1030080026a.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1030080217.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1108081619.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1030080216c.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1030080025b.jpg

i just wanted to put up the pics of te vac lines to try to hhelp people that want to remove some of them or fix broken leaky lines.

labeledsk8r
11-11-2008, 02:38 AM
how does it run without some of the vac stuff?? have you thought of obd-1 setup..

on a side note do i see a tophat mod done to your shock towers?

Rendon LX-i
11-11-2008, 01:59 PM
A man u should defiantely should do a how-to i wanted to do this for a long ass time lol...Be perfect

Rendon LX-i
11-11-2008, 02:01 PM
YOUR from Yakima LOL...i live in selah bro we should meet...

ghettogeddy
11-11-2008, 02:01 PM
ya are the top hats on the inside of the engine bay

89sei89dx
11-11-2008, 10:11 PM
yeah the top hats are upside down with inch 1/4 spacers. i drilled three new holes in between the bolts on the top hat and bolts run thru the stock body holesmto the top hat upside down and up the extra 2 or so inches it makes it ride better . the shock is a stock replacement and it is extended about stock height. my car is lowered about 4 inches . but it corners good and doesnt bounce too much. i got custom top hats on the back too. 2 1/2 extension so they are not sitting hella low then bottom out when i hit a bump.i also have 4 door shocks on the back and they feel stiffer i think. i will post pics of these mods later when i get home. also yeah i live in cowiche and i think i see your car around all the time at the drift in i think. it is pretty damn nice.

import racer
11-12-2008, 06:30 AM
so do you still have the tophats on the spring underneath or just those on top.

Rendon LX-i
11-12-2008, 07:53 AM
yeah i live in cowiche and i think i see your car around all the time at the drift in i think. it is pretty damn nice.

My wife works there so she took it when it was N/A lol i dont thing she well be doing that since its turbo lol....

89sei89dx
11-13-2008, 12:41 AM
i see it at the tire store alot in selah now that i think about it. i used to live there and roll around in my black and white coupe alot. yeah we should meet up. i want to check out that turbo.its still the a20 right . my friends been talkin about puttin a turbo on my car for a while and he had the turbo setup on his camero and said he would give me all of the turbo stuff for my car but i dont have a turbo manifod or enough money to by one so for now no turbo.
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1112081400a.jpgprimed it today
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1111081520.jpg engine area cleaned and like 3 vac lines and no box. still about 27 or more mpg city
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1111081521c.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1111081521b.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1111081520b.jpg

ghettogeddy
11-13-2008, 01:31 PM
that would prolly be the perfect mod to run maybe without the spacers to have a strut bar on a carbed car

import racer
11-13-2008, 04:44 PM
So do you have two top hats on each side with the top ones upside down.are the bottom ones modified so the shocks will reach the top ones.

89sei89dx
11-13-2008, 07:10 PM
i have just 1 tophat on each side. with shorter springs. so i put in the spring and shock from the bottom and since my springs are lower when i got it all the way up in there and held it there. i look in the engine bay and the top mount nut for the shock was up thru the body hangin out there with the bump stop so i then put the top hat on there. with spacers . it helped the ride alot

Rendon LX-i
11-13-2008, 07:44 PM
[QUOTE=89sei89dx;911467]i see it at the tire store alot in selah now that i think about it. i used to live there and roll around in my black and white coupe alot. yeah we should meet up. i want to check out that turbo.its still the a20 right . my friends been talkin about puttin a turbo on my car for a while and he had the turbo setup on his camero and said he would give me all of the turbo stuff for my car but i dont have a turbo manifod or enough money to by one so for now no turbo.
QUOTE]

yeah i work at franks tire in selah thats cool shit man...Im getting my downpipe put on next weekend and yeah its a a20a3 with a Dsm T25 turbo....yeah takes time man took me a good year in a half i got mine from justin he made me one for 240 which is good and turbo was a 100 and the shit just keeps adding up i got 1200 already into it got 450cc injectors and safc and getting a wideband soon as funds are in my hand lol....kinda of hard when u got a baby on the way.

Rendon

import racer
11-13-2008, 08:16 PM
So you just took the top hat off your shock,put lowered springs on and bolt top hat on top with short bolts.then jack it up through hole in top hat and bolt down.Is that right and sdo you need the spacers or is it because your so low.

89sei89dx
11-14-2008, 06:00 PM
import racer
So you just took the top hat off your shock,put lowered springs on and bolt top hat on top with short bolts.then jack it up through hole in top hat and bolt down.Is that right and sdo you need the spacers or is it because your so low.

yeah basicaly. i have the spacers too becouuse i lowered the car alot and did not want my shocks to blow out when i hit a bump.also i did not have the cash to go buy the good shocks i wanted that are made for a lower car. have more available travel up n down. if i did not have the spacers also i flipped the top hat and u could use it like that but my car is lowered 3 to 4 inches so that flipped top hhat would only give me like an extra inch or two. i wantedto have enough room so i put thhe spacers. it works awesome. no blown shocks and it has good shock to it. if i left it lower withhout flippin tophat or addin spacers it would be to low and ruin the shock the first coupleof times i hit a bump. so then all i would have for suspension is springs and the car would bounce all over and ride likke shit. it happened and i dealt with it for like to weeks and it SUCKED. It is good now.i will put close up pics of that and the custom top hats in back on here tomarrow when it is light

senor honda
11-15-2008, 06:57 AM
I see we think alike......

I was going to use a top hat below, since it has the rubber to cushion the spring and quiet the noise.

I was going to drill out the stock bolts from the bottom hat,
run 3/8 X 3 1/2" bolts upward thru the stock holes,
remove the rubber doughnut above and below the top hat so the shock rod doesn't rub them, remove the cover that hangs down over the rod that keeps
dirt off the shock rod.

I was going to sit the spring on top of the coilover, but below the bottom top hat, and with the bolts pointing upward, and lower the car back down.

With the three bolts poking upward in the engine compartment, I was going to cut some electrical conduit for spacers to drop down over the 3 bolts, place the rubber doughnuts above and below the top hat, and bolt the top hat down onto the conduit spacers with nylock locking nuts. Conduit is strong
when compressed between bolt and nut and is cheaper than steel tubing.
There is very little force on it when there are three of them, anyway.

Last step was to bolt a washer above the top doughnut and double-nut the top of the shock rod.

My question is.......since I wanted to keep the dirt off of the shock rod, does anyone have suggestions as to how I can keep the shock rod cover in use?

The shock rod has a step in it at the bottom of the threads, where the dirt cover was intended to rest on, and that step will now interfere with the hat if the dirt protector is in place.

Any ideas? Thanks, -Bob

senor honda
11-15-2008, 07:00 AM
I thought about trimming some coffee cans to slip down over the
upper hat, and painting them to match the car............-Bob

A18A
11-15-2008, 12:42 PM
haha i'll be interested in seeing that, be sure to post pics :)

import racer
11-15-2008, 02:11 PM
I Just Want To Lower My Front To Get Rid Of The Gap Between The Wheelwell And Tire.but Don"t Have A Lot Of Cash.do You Think If I Cut My Springs About A Coil And Put Top Hats On Top It Would Be Ok.

89sei89dx
11-15-2008, 04:52 PM
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1115081153a.jpg top hat mod on back
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1115081152.jpgtop hat on front with innch or 1.25 spacers and mounted upside downhttp://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1115081157a.jpghow my car sits with the lip .http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1115081156.jpgand another of the rear top hat. and rust. i got alot of rust to fix on this car. but thats what i get for buyin a 200 dollar car. i WILL fix the rust later

senor honda
11-19-2008, 02:59 PM
I Just Want .................do You Think If I Cut My Springs About A Coil And Put Top Hats On Top It Would Be Ok.

I have previously cut coils after careful measuring, on many types of cars.
Most cars can be lowered about 1 1/2" for a street lowering, to clear the local speed bumps. I have photographic proof that my car is lowered 3"
on cut coils, with no blown shocks, no beaten suspensions and no eaten tires.
Locally, I'm the only guy who knows how to measure a car suspension......
and cut coils.

To save the shocks from destruction, raise the upper top hat the same amount of distance that you lower the car.

It isn't cut coils that destroy shocks, it's springs that are too short that destroy shocks................something I have been unable to get across to the
local sellers of aftermarket coils................and since they see a loss of income from not selling/installing aftermarket coils, and I don't charge a lot to measure suspensions and cut coils, they get really viscious in their email attacks.

It doesn't matter if a person spent $300 for a spring that's too short, or if he made it too short all by himself, springs that are too short cause damage....
and raising the top shock mount by the same amount that you lower the car will prevent shock damage.

So MEASURE CAREFULLY.................-Bob

89sei89dx
11-19-2008, 07:27 PM
I have previously cut coils after careful measuring, on many types of cars.
Most cars can be lowered about 1 1/2" for a street lowering, to clear the local speed bumps. I have photographic proof that my car is lowered 3"
on cut coils, with no blown shocks, no beaten suspensions and no eaten tires.
Locally, I'm the only guy who knows how to measure a car suspension......
and cut coils.

To save the shocks from destruction, raise the upper top hat the same amount of distance that you lower the car.

It isn't cut coils that destroy shocks, it's springs that are too short that destroy shocks................something I have been unable to get across to the
local sellers of aftermarket coils................and since they see a loss of income from not selling/installing aftermarket coils, and I don't charge a lot to measure suspensions and cut coils, they get really viscious in their email attacks.

It doesn't matter if a person spent $300 for a spring that's too short, or if he made it too short all by himself, springs that are too short cause damage....
and raising the top shock mount by the same amount that you lower the car will prevent shock damage.
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1115081153a.jpghttp://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1115081152.jpgthat is exactly why i did this.

Pico
11-19-2008, 07:32 PM
can you do a detailed write up on how you rerouted the vac. lines for removing the black box. I'm not so good at reading diagrams and it would be easier for to figure it out if you write it up.

89sei89dx
11-19-2008, 07:39 PM
im gonna try to do that i was just lookin at how to section and thought i need to do that for these guys.i was lookin for info on here for removing them on the fi for a long ass time and didnt find anything that would help me.lookin for hours thru post after post.. i have a hard time explaining things so ill try to make it simple. it wasnt that hard . it looked real hard when i opened the black box and looked at all the stuff in there. but i found theright vacuum diagram. and i figured out what i needed and didnt. i didnt have ac or power steering or cruz. i will write it all out in a good how to.

Pico
11-19-2008, 07:40 PM
im gonna try to do that i was just lookin at how to section and thought i need to do that for these guys.i was lookin for info on here for removing them on the fi for a long ass time and didnt find anything that would help me.lookin for hours thru post after post.. i have a hard time explaining things so ill try to make it simple. it wasnt that hard . it looked real hard when i opened the black box and looked at all the stuff in there. but i found theright vacuum diagram. and i figured out what i needed and didnt. i didnt have ac or power steering or cruz. i will write it all out in a good how to.

Cool Thanks :wave:

89sei89dx
11-19-2008, 07:47 PM
i have been tuning my car little by little. when i still had the vac lines i also had no cruz or lines or mounts. same with ac and power steering all mounts gone and hoses tubes condensors.resister in int air temp sensor c.a.i. no cat 2.25 to 2.5 in exhhaust to hi flow muffler. lightweight hatchremoved weight under hood and motors for old flip lights and new lights are like a pound or 2.light plastic no trim inside in back no interior behind back seats. tiny bumpers basicaly mounts for covers. and when i removed vacuumlines i got a lil better acceleration and a good bit more of everything over 4000. can i put the intake manifold and fuel rail throttle body off of my 91 integra with b18a1 on my a20a3 and does anyone know if that thhrottl body is larger or better than ours

Rendon LX-i
11-19-2008, 08:26 PM
i have been tuning my car little by little. when i still had the vac lines i also had no cruz or lines or mounts. same with ac and power steering all mounts gone and hoses tubes condensors.resister in int air temp sensor c.a.i. no cat 2.25 to 2.5 in exhhaust to hi flow muffler. lightweight hatchremoved weight under hood and motors for old flip lights and new lights are like a pound or 2.light plastic no trim inside in back no interior behind back seats. tiny bumpers basicaly mounts for covers. and when i removed vacuumlines i got a lil better acceleration and a good bit more of everything over 4000. can i put the intake manifold and fuel rail throttle body off of my 91 integra with b18a1 on my a20a3 and does anyone know if that thhrottl body is larger or better than ours

Only a b16 intake manifold work just got to drill two holes and block your egr off its pretty easy...then u can have what ever injectors rails and thottler bodys you want man...i was going to do but never got to it. but that write up would be great.

Rendonlxi

Rendon LX-i
11-19-2008, 08:42 PM
just wanted to show you bobafett setup i saw it person looks NOICE lol

http://a20turbo.com/features/chris/plugwires/IMG_0773.jpg
b16mani

89sei89dx
11-19-2008, 09:21 PM
i want a b16 manifold is it alot better airflowthan ours .and how big a t.b.can be on it. also my friend just got a mazda protege and its stock .its pretty zippy considerin. i asked me to help hhim make it a lil faster so wepopped the hood to lookat what we had to work with. and when i saw his stock intake mnanifold i liked it. i thought i would put a couple of pics of it on here and see what u guys think. ITS STOCK likethis. dou think it would be good to design a manifoldlike this for the a20http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1119081554.jpgandhttp://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/gettinthechewin/1119081554a.jpg

cygnus x-1
11-19-2008, 10:30 PM
I've seen ^those^ intakes before. Interesting design; much like an exhaust header. Long runners for good low and mid-range torque. Would be really cool to see what it would do to an A20, but it would be a pain to build.

To answer your other question, yes you can fit a B18A1 intake manifold to an A20 head. I have one on my 2g Prelude. It does need some modification though. You need to drill 1 hole and enlarge two others. The EGR port needs to be cut off. The throttle linkage and fuel lines may need some modification. Some of the sensors and stuff may need to be rewired but I can't say exactly what would be needed with a stock Accord. My setup is kinda mix and match and I'm using an aftermarket ECU (Megasquirt) so it's one of a kind. I also didn't have enough hood clearance but the Prelude has a lower hood than the Accord so I think it's ok there.

Not the greatest picture but here it is:

http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Mods/FIConversion/EngineIntake.jpg


C|

rfiks
11-24-2008, 10:00 PM
(:wave:)ok back on topic... those diagrams are insane, what did u do with the vac hoses do u have any instructions or advice? have u seen any "noticeable" power gains from removing the black box? thanx in advance!

Rendon LX-i
11-24-2008, 10:59 PM
Did not know u can mount a b18 manifold on a20 but yeah, i think he working on that so it wont b hard for us to do "rfiks"

Rendonlxi

mushroom_toy
11-24-2008, 11:46 PM
Im interested in a write up too....I was going to do this but I didnt feel like doing all the work...XD Glad you did though as it needed to be done. Now all we need is a good writeup for it. :)

89sei89dx
11-25-2008, 01:00 AM
ok....im gonna try but im not good at explaining things and i did not take pics when i did it (SORRY IM RETARDED) so now im goin thru my own pics and the vac line drawings i made for u.this is takin a while
.... i didnt have ac or ps or cruz so i got rid of those
. there is 1 vac line from cruz to intake manifold on drivers side. . i plugged that
..... since i didnt have ac . i thought i dont need (ac idlle boost valve). so i opened up the black box and removed ac idle boost valve that had (# 19) goin in, and one goin out of it to the check valve that has vac connection to (ignition controll solenoid valve) and another vac (#12) comin into it. number (19) goes out and connects to metal lines and then to the (ac idle boost valve) that is on the front drivers side top of intake manifold (on my 87) .
.. on the (ac idle boost valve) on manifolld it had a vac line (19)connected to it and another vac line lower comin out that went to the lil black box that connects onto the drivers side of the stock air fillter box (some sort of sensor i acuallly had removed a long time ago) and that box had a vac line connected to it that went to the idle controll solenoid valve, that sits on the drivers side of the engine bay above the tire.. and another vac line goin from that (the i c s v) that went to the intake . i plugged/removed all those.
...so now removed ac idle boost valve off of manifold and it screwed off so i screwed in a plug thhere.
...(fast idle controll solenoid valve)... it is the (#23) vac line that pllugs onto driveres side end of intake manifold. it goes from there intometal vac lines then into black box and into the (fast idle valve) . it has another vac line(#18) that goes from it out of the black box and that plugs into stock intake box. .gone..
...(dashpot diaphragm).its the thing that sits on front of the manifold right by the throttle cable near throttle body on the front . i removed the vac line(#6) that goes from that to the dashpot check valve then into metal vac lines. it comes out near front of throttlle body and plugs right into the top of t.b. then i removed diaphragm from intake. ..
...(E.G.R.). i removed becouse i was always gettin a code 12 on check engine light. valve has (#16) comin off it and into black box. where it goes into a air chamber thing (that also has vac line goin from it to constant vacuum control valve)then from that into egr controlll solonoid valve. (#17) vacline comes off of egr solonoid valve, and out of black box where it connects to stock intake tubing..so all that is gone and the lines from the air chamber thing were plugged but then i removed air chamber thing becouse it was plugged to the egr stuff (now gone)and to the (cvcv).
....(constant vac control solenoid valve) (cvc valve ) has vac line #24 comin off it . i didnt know if it was hurtin my performance to take it off becouse i got a wierd sputter the first day when i took this off so i put it back on and just re routed it off the bottom of the drivers side of intake and into car..
...

so now i think after all this i have just the map(vac #21) and ig control solonoid valve(#12 and #15 vacs) comin from black box. so i remove box itself and metal brackits and i put those 2 in a smalller whit box till i figure out where im gonna mount it

.... wait. (#3) vac line comes off of charcoal canister. and goes to metal vac lines where u see the most stock vac lines goin to black box. it goes to there and then it does a tiny u turn and goes over into a sensor below the distributor or thermostat and that was never plugged in on mine since i got it ,it was capped so ..
.....(map Sensor) it has (#21) vac line goin out of it from blackbox to the metal vaac lines. then from there it comes out of metal lines near bottom of t.b. and it comes up a couple inches then plugs into the top of the throttle body.i unplugged it from there and ran a vac line streight from map to there.
....(ignition control solonoid valve). it has (#15 aand #12 vac lines)comin out the black box..(#15) goes out of black box and to metal vaclines. from ther it goes aa couple inches and then comes out of metall vac lines and to the back vac line of the distributor. and (#12) goes from icsv out of black box to metal vac lines and from there it goes to a t and thhen to anothere t then it goes around the egr and aroundthen comesout and plugs into the front of intake manifold on top in the middle. the first tin the metal vaac lines goes out then plugs into the sensor or whatever is by the thermostat with the two vac lines . other is (#3) .the second t goes out and it has a short vac line that plugs onto the front vac input on the distributor. i removed alll the metal vac lines then cleaned up and hid the vac lines(#12 and #15). and thats when i took the pics u see in this post. soooooo.i am gonna try to do a how to with pictures accept i did all thhat without takin pics and my othercaris aan 89 with the different intake manifold. so it will be hardto do but im gonna try.i hopethis hels some of you. and if u have any questions ask and i will try to help. the car is runnin real good and its faster then before i did all this. gas mpg seemed to be about the same 25 to 30. accept 1 day right after it looked like i got about 22 mpg . but i think i screwed up adding it up cause since thhen its been good about the same as before i think. illl let uall know if i have any problems later. alaso i dont want to be responsible for if it dont work out the same on your cars so be careful and pay attention to how ur car runs. ive had no probs but that is just me.it does studder a lil sometimes below 2000 rpms and i havnt figured that out yet. if yall have any ideas what may hhave caused that let me know. i dealtwith it becouse of the other improvements acceleration and top end.
.. so this just took me about three hours to write up for u. if u got questions or see something i may have skipped or something let me know and ill try to help. also i triedto find info onhhhow to do this for a long ass time and searched till i died. and then came back to life. then i was on prelude power searchin for it and saw pics and posts talkin bout it. and one guy who haaad removed most of it said in a post . the si's only need this and that . so i took that info and started tryin to figure it out on my own.so here we are. mine still runs good good mpg and a lil more power

89sei89dx
11-25-2008, 01:37 AM
i tried to pu this in the how to section and it told me i dont haave access or i dont have permision..am i doin somthin wrong

A20A1
11-28-2008, 01:21 AM
I can move or copy the important info in this thread then post it in the how-to section for you.


That header like manifold looks neat. I like that the runners are facing and are equidistant from the TB and it's equal length.

89sei89dx
11-28-2008, 01:47 AM
. that would be good. if someone wants to try this and take pics while they do it and then put a step by step with pics in the how to it would be awesome. i think some would find it easier with pics. ill try to answer any questions i can to help but i forgot to take pics of it.