Springs with strut change?

[Z-CARR]

Hi. Long time reader, first time poster...

I will be changing the struts on my '89 Accord LX in the near future. I bought this car back in college in 1996 and it has been a loyal friend ever since. I'm no stranger to turning wrenches. I have a '91 300ZX 2+2 that I've done a lot of work to. You name it, it's done (no rice).. Including a modified twin turbo conversion.

When I replaced the struts on my '98 Maxima SE I didn't change springs. At the time, that car had about 160K on the clock. As far as I can tell there were no negatives to keeping the OE springs. I know that springs mostly control ride height and not really ride quality or road contact.

"Old Blue", the Accord, is my daily driver that keeps my Z garaged most of the time. I've recently started working in the Atlanta area some weeks and the Accord just doesn't feel stable at highway speeds (65-70 mph) and in high-traffic situations. I know it's time to refurbish the suspension for safety. At 192,XXX, I'd say the OE's have made their money. However, in these times, if it is reasonable to avoid spending the extra cash then that's what I'm going to do. I'm not cheap by any means, but I'm fiscally conscious.

Here is what I am about to order:

Monroe Sensa-Trac Struts front and rear (#'s 801227, 801829)
Coil Springs front and rear (OE ride height)
Strut Bearing Plates front and rear
Lower Strut Mount Bushings front and rear
Anti-Sway (Stabilizer) Bar bushing kit


My question to the experienced here is.. Do you think it's really necessary to replace the springs? I am asking this from and original suspension performance standpoint. This car is a very responsibly driven DD. Will I lose enough by skipping the springs to make it worth the money that I would invest in new ones?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

[Oldblueaccord]

Unless the coils are broken I would not worry about changing them esp on a southern car. Our cars have a fairly high spring rate from the factory so a good shock is a must. I think there are better shocks the monroe for our type suspensions just depends on your budget. My springs are original.

As far as stability I would give a good look over the upper ball joints front and rear for play. The rears esp. don't go much over 3 years without some kinda wear. After all that a good alignment might be in order as well.

Does't hurt to replace all bushings that you can. The sway bar truefully does little for stability straight line. My wifes accord on side of the front it totally wiped out gone and she notices nothing noise or otherwise. I ran it up 80 mpg the other day to go rescue the mother-in-law broke down on the highway. With cheap tires it handled great.

Good luck with it and do some searching on here there alot to look thru.


wp

[Vanilla Sky]

The springs in these cars aren't like the springs that our Camaro has. These springs are very high quality, and you'll be fine reusing them.

For shocks, I'd put my money on KYB GR-2 shocks, since you're staying at stock ride height. They're less expensive than the slightly better Tokico Blues that are available, and you can pick up a set at your local parts store if you needed an emergency replacement.

[Z-CARR]

Thanks for the help, guys. I have searched and found a thread that outlines the removal and reinstall process. The pictures are broken, but no big deal. I own the Honda FSM on this car (as I do on my others). I will re-use the springs.

I put the GR-2's on my Maxima when I changed the struts on it. They are a little more stiff than the OE's were. If I want a stiff ride, the Z (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/663773) has KYB AGX's dialed in at 2/5 with the Eibach Pro Kit. All-in-all the GR-2's a are a great strut for the price and the ride is reasonably smooth. I will look at going that route since I'm saving money on the springs. I'll look at the ball joints too. I have no doubt they need to be replaced. I've replaced both rear upper control arms.

Thanks again guys.

Chris

[LxAcc510]

The springs in these cars aren't like the springs that our Camaro has. These springs are very high quality, and you'll be fine reusing them.

For shocks, I'd put my money on KYB GR-2 shocks, since you're staying at stock ride height. They're less expensive than the slightly better Tokico Blues that are available, and you can pick up a set at your local parts store if you needed an emergency replacement.

KYB>Tokico? :dunno:

[snoopyloopy]

KYB>Tokico? :dunno:

for stock replacement using stock springs, i do believe they're cheaper. so then that's a yes.

[Vanilla Sky]

Yes. If budget is a concern, and stock springs are going to be used, there isn't that big of a reason to go with the Tokico Blues.

[LxAcc510]

Yes. If budget is a concern, and stock springs are going to be used, there isn't that big of a reason to go with the Tokico Blues.

sorry for the semi-threadjack op.

So you're saying as a STOCK replacement-KYB, but anything else, ex. lowering-tokico's?

[ghettogeddy]

sorry for the semi-threadjack op.

So you're saying as a STOCK replacement-KYB, but anything else, ex. lowering-tokico's?

pritty much i would only go ghr2s myself if i wasent lowered lol but im lowered 3 inches lol so the tokicos is my only bet and still not the best bet for how low i am lol

[LxAcc510]

pritty much i would only go ghr2s myself if i wasent lowered lol but im lowered 3 inches lol so the tokicos is my only bet and still not the best bet for how low i am lol

Kewl. I'm still getting tokicokis then :flip:

[markmdz89hatch]

First, welcome to the board.

I'm with Vanilla on this one. I would use the GR-2's or Toki's and keep the original springs. Upper control arms, both front and rear should be looked at. If you already did the rear uppers, you're one step ahead of the game. Next, I would look at the lower ball joint up front, and if you're noticing an unsteady highway ride, check out your tie-rod ends as well. Beyond that, check out your lower control arm bushings up front (check both bushings on each lower arm). Also, while you're at it, I would replace the tophats or at least the tophat bushings when you replace the struts. KYB makes them, or you can get them from majestic for a relatively good price too. The Monro's are not a bad OE replacement strut either, but I would first investigate their valving specs before pulling the trigger with them.

...just a quick note on your car setup... ...this is like a flashback for me. I had my 3G as my DD and had a '90 Z N/A w/ the AGX's and the Eibach's just like yours. Other then that, it had an HKS shroom intake, and that's it. Bone stock otherwise. Check out B&B for the sweetest note you can get out of a Z exhaust. I have a new set of CNC milled aluminum subframe bushings sitting in a box that I never got to install in my Z before I sold it. That and an original Z bra for highway driving, and mirror covers too. What color is yours?

[Z-CARR]

Here is a link to my Z if you're interested:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/663773

Mine's a '91. It's metallic black (OEM paint code 732). I'm in total agreement about the B&B. I even like the way the oval-shaped tips match the shape of the tail lights. Unfortunately, my Z32 is a 2+2 chassis and B&B does not make an exhaust for the 2+2. Too bad. It's not showing in the pictures, but I have a Specialty-Z 2.5" catback with the h-pipe and large resonators. The last picture on the CarDomain page still shows the stock catback. It was about a week before I put the new catback on. The pic was taken by the passenger in the car behind me on the Hellbender at ZdayZ 2008.

When I bought the car back in March 2004, it was bone stock at 80K miles.


Thanks for the welcome and thank you for the good advice about the suspension.

One more question... Is the "strut bearing plate" the same thing as the "top hat" that you are referring to? I believe that all/nearly all the associated hardware should be replaced when changing struts. I did the same thing on both the Maxima and the Z.

[LxAcc510]

Here is a link to my Z if you're interested:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/663773

Mine's a '91. It's metallic black (OEM paint code 732). I'm in total agreement about the B&B. I even like the way the oval-shaped tips match the shape of the tail lights. Unfortunately, my Z32 is a 2+2 chassis and B&B does not make an exhaust for the 2+2. Too bad. It's not showing in the pictures, but I have a Specialty-Z 2.5" catback with the h-pipe and large resonators. The last picture on the CarDomain page still shows the stock catback. It was about a week before I put the new catback on. The pic was taken by the passenger in the car behind me on the Hellbender at ZdayZ 2008.

When I bought the car back in March 2004, it was bone stock at 80K miles.


Thanks for the welcome and thank you for the good advice about the suspension.

One more question... Is the "strut bearing plate" the same thing as the "top hat" that you are referring to? I believe that all/nearly all the associated hardware should be replaced when changing struts. I did the same thing on both the Maxima and the Z.

Pretty fucking nice zx my friend

[Z-CARR]

Thanks!

I love my Accord just as much.. just for a different reason.

[markmdz89hatch]

ok ok Lx, my fault for straying off topic, let's salvage this thread from lock hell and get back on topic.

Z -> the tophat is what the strut mounts to, and holds the spring to the whole assembly. I'll edit this post with a link to a pic in a sec...

edit: http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=2DR+LXI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=FRONT+SHOCK+ABSORBER

Check numbers 11, 7, 15, 8, 9, 6. You won't need 18 as that usually comes with the new strut. If the new one does not come with the dustcover (GR-2's do not if I'm not mistaken), then be sure to take not only #12, but the all important #10 as well.

or, check out.... http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/Susptabl.jsp?autoMake=Honda&autoModel=Accord+LXi+Hatchback&autoYear=1989&autoModClar=&brand=all

that has the tophats at the bottom of the page, and lists the GR-2's and Bill's. Glance right over the H&R's because neither strut will handle them well, and you don't need new springs.

[Z-CARR]

Fantastic info. Thanks Mark.

[mushroom_toy]

As all of the others have said I would keep the springs, and just replace the struts with some KYB Gr2s. But be sure to check out the balljoints, tierod ends, and all of the bushings, as that might be were some of the play is coming from.

On another note, nice to see another Georgia member. You said you have a 300z, ever go to the Varsity meets in Atlanta? If not you should definitely go sometime and bring the 3gee, check out www.importatlanta.com also. :)

Also your Z looks amazing. :)

[DBMaster]

I'm not sure why everybody on here hates Sensatracs so much. I put a set on my car in 1998 when I had 150K on the clock. It's now 2008 and I have 294K miles. They are "softer" than the shocks you all mention, but the ride quality is still quite good and the dampers are not yet showing signs of being worn out. I guess it depends upon what you're looking for in your ride. These cars don't have much suspension from the factory and most modifications take more of that out. I would think you would end up with an intolerably stiff ride. Then again, that may be exactly what many want. :)

[markmdz89hatch]

Mike, I'm with you. I had mentioned above that the Monroe's are not bad OE replacements, but (just me being me) I would always try and get the specs from Monroe on the valving. The GR-2's should not stiffen the ride to the point of intolerable.

I personally (provided specs come back satisfactory) would not shy from the Monroe's as they are commercially accepted as one of the most common OE replacements, which would lead me to believe that they should rank well in the longevity scale. KYB's could also be bunched into that group.

KYB actually responds to the everyday buyer with the answer of these being an OE replacement, but the more you delve into it, you'll find that they're 10-15% stiffer than stock. But KYB's position on that slight stiffening is to combat the fatigue on other suspension components for the goal of providing a great feel without replacing all that other 'stuff'. I vote to replace that other 'stuff' and get the GR-2's or bit the bullet and go a few extra beans for the Toki's.

Z is already use to the AGX's on ProKit's on his Z, which from the factory has a pretty respectable suspension, so the slight additional rigidity (IMO) would be a welcome change from the marshmallow feel of blown struts on shot bushings.

[DBMaster]

Almost all of the major roads around here are now concrete. I get enough noise inside the car from the "textured" road surface without making it worse by stiffening the suspension. Jim is the best person to speak to this, but simply lowering the suspension or stiffening it will not make the car handle better. Since my factory LXi dampeners were not gas charged I already obtained less suspension bottoming from the Sensatracs. That's not to say I would not have been even happier with one of the more "exclusive sounding" brands mentioned. Monroe recently came out with preassembled strut and hardware combos which, of course, they do not offer for our cars as the demand would not be that high. With those you get a strut with the spring, bearing, bump stop, etc. already on it. That would make replacement really easy. Does the car look better lowered? I actually think it does, but not enough to do it to mine because I already think my handling is adequate and the ride is plenty stiff.

It could be that I am just getting older. I should go out tomorrow and seek my Buick Regal with fake comvertible top! My interest is practical. I want to keep my car looking and working as close to new as I can get it. It was such a huge upgrade in ride and handling to the 72 Catalina I had before it that I guess I have "settled." The 3g Accord still holds its own against newer models primarily because I think Honda "dumbed down" the suspension on later models to appeal to American buyers. The current suspensions utilize fewer parts and seem to be simpler when compared to ours. Also, I seem to spend more than enough money just replacing worn out parts with quality replacements. I miss the days of worrying only about having enough money to buy upgrades for my car. I had the best handling 72 Pontiac on the road, but this car could handle circles around it straight from the Ohio factory.