Front UCA Noises

[DBMaster]

This topic has been covered before. I searched. There were several recommendations NOT to use the new tubes and bolts that come with cheap aftermarket front UCA's along with the advice to reuse the originals. The new parts seemed quite solid and were a good fit so I used them. It may have been a mistake.

It's is so weird. My highway ride is quieter and the vibration from in the steering wheel is pretty much gone. My upper ball joints in the old UCA's were shot. What is weird is that intermittently I get noises from the front end when going over bumps and when taking turns at low speed. If I bounce the car when parked the UCA's are quiet. I used plenty of lithium grease when assembling and the bushings didn't take too much effort to install. I greased them and used my bench vise to press them in.

I don't understand why properly fitting parts would cause this and I am not eliminating the possibility that the noises have another source besides the UCA's since we all know that improving rigidity in one area can aggravate issues in other areas. If I have to toss the UCA's I just installed and get better ones I will do that in the near future, but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas. I am so sick of sounds from the front end like the car is falling apart. It's embarrassing in an otherwise pristine vehicle.

[nswst8]

What about the top hats on the strut springs? If these are pretty worn, this will give off squeaks.

[2oodoor]

sway bar mounting?
what kind of noise. that subtle thumping noise you get from FWD cars? usually is the lower ball joints

edit.. also rack mounts, and link to steering shaft

[DBMaster]

There's a lot more noise when it's cold outside. When I went over a couple of speed bumpos yesterday it sounded like the front end was about to self destruct. After replacing the UCA's it was nice and quiet for a couple of weeks. It's sort of a series of creaks and thumps. Lower ball joints seem good. They were replaced with TRW units several years ago. I replaced the sway bar bushings a few years ago when I thought they were making noise. I have also replaced the tie rod ends. There is no play in anything with the wheels off the ground and when I bounce the car in the garage it doesn't make a peep. I suppose it could be a lot of things other than the cheap Chinese UCA's and bushings, but I doubt it. One thing I thought of is maybe the reman. half shafts my mechanic put on a few years ago have play in the CV joints. It just seems coincidental that it got to be this noisy two weeks after replacing the UCA's.

[Oldblueaccord]

Are you using poly stuff or is it factory? anyway I would think its the rubber composite that is making the noise.

You should hear my poly ends on the rear UCA its like hauling egg cartons around on cold mornings.



wp

[DBMaster]

The bushings are all rubber. There does not seem to be any looseness at all to the UCA bushings. I am quick to blame the fact that I went cheap on the replacement parts, but I suppose it could just as easily be a case of stiffening one area causing noises in another. It's annoying, but it does not appear that there are any imminent failures. Maybe I set my expectations too high. If it gets any worse I am likely to toss my $90 worth of eBay UCA's and bushings and replace them with Moog or Honda OEM.

[LX-incredible]

Sounds like the UCA bushings and sleeve. I had the same problem with mine. It's real hard to notice the play until you get some miles on it, but it's there. At least replace the bushings with moog/three five/honda and use a stock sleeve.

[Dr_Snooz]

It's your bushings. If they were tight enough to require a bench vise to install, they were tight enough to wipe all the grease off the pivot surfaces. Now they sort of scrub and squeak, especially on cold mornings. For what it's worth, you will probably never get rid of the noise on cold mornings, but if it's doing it at other times, you might want to pull them apart and re-grease, or try a different bushing (not control arm) kit.

I had the same problem: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66123&highlight=front+uca

[DBMaster]

Near as I can tell the pivoting surfaces are the outer ends and edges of the bushings where they move inside the end caps. I don't think the bushings are supposed to move inside the UCA. I just can't understand why I don't hear any noises when the car is parked and I bounce it. No matter. I figure it's the bushings.

[Hazwan]

I have similar problem with my 1g with the LCA creaking only when moving, but nothing when the car is parked and I bounce it. I have yet to fix that, and looking forward to see the solution. Its driving me crazy!

edit: Holy shit! After reading Dr_Snooz's post I think I've got to check that thing ASAP! Its been creaking for a while already.

[DBMaster]

I don't know why I couldn't find Dr Snooz's old post. For what it's worth I think the only pivoting surfaces are the long bolt inside the hollow metal tube and the end caps against the bushings. The broken piece in Dr's post looks to me like part of the seal that just keeps dirt and water out of the bushings. I think the bushings themselves often outlast the control arm - at least the ball joint. I am starting to think that maybe we just have not found the right type of grease yet.

[russiankid]

I had this issue as well. I regreased the bushings and the problem was still there. I ended up torquing the bolt to 30ft-lbs instead of 40ft-lbs like it says in the manual and its been fine ever since.

[Dr_Snooz]

Near as I can tell the pivoting surfaces are the outer ends and edges of the bushings where they move inside the end caps. I don't think the bushings are supposed to move inside the UCA. I just can't understand why I don't hear any noises when the car is parked and I bounce it. No matter. I figure it's the bushings.

That's a big negatory, good buddy. You want everything to be nice and slippery. My end cap sheared off because the bushing wasn't sliding inside the arm like it should.

[DBMaster]

That's a big negatory, good buddy. You want everything to be nice and slippery. My end cap sheared off because the bushing wasn't sliding inside the arm like it should.

Hmm. Sounds like new-new bushings are in my future then. The noises I heard before I replaced the UCA's were similar, but not as bad. After seeing how bad the ball joints were I assumed replacing the UCA's would resolve the noise. It did resolve the steeering wheel vibration, but apparently the worn out balljoints were not the sources of the noises.

[Oldblueaccord]

Double check that the nuts thru the body are nice a tight as well. The holes are oval shaped so it will let the arm walk around if its a little loose.


wp

[w261w261]

I don't think this is related to your problems, but have you replaced the radius arm bushings recently? Are you getting any torque steer or knocking over bumps?

[DBMaster]

I don't think this is related to your problems, but have you replaced the radius arm bushings recently? Are you getting any torque steer or knocking over bumps?

That's actually a good question. The radius rod bushings were replaced when I put it into the shop while on a business trip. I had a lot of stuff done to it that I didn't feel like doing at home.

It was a car repair day yesterday. I replaced the main heater hoses. I also loosened and re-tightened the long bolts through the UCA's. My torque wrench will not fit in the small space, but I think I had made the bolts too tight. They are snug now (maybe close to the 40 ft-lbs they are supposed to be). There is a lot less noise, but I'll have to see how it holds out. When I first replaced them a couple of weeks ago they were dead silent and within ten days started making awful sounds.

[2oodoor]

If the type of uca bushings being used, moves with the arm, then that would call for them being torqued preloaded wouldn't it? In other words not torqued with the car jacked up and the uca in a position it will seldom be riding in.

[DBMaster]

That part makes sense to me. I can't really get the wrenches in there to tighten the nut (while holding the bolt) with the car on the ground. I have noticed that the shiny metal end caps remain stationary while the arm moves. I don't recall noticing that before. Of course, If I overtightened the nut in the first place I may have already damaged the bushings. I removed the hollow tube, bolts, and end caps from my OEM arms and they do appear to be of a higher level of manufacturing quality compared to the ones that came with the kit I purchased. I think at this point I am just being lazy because I don't want to remove the UCA's again unless I am replacing more than just those parts. I have my doubts that just replacing the hardware will resolve the noise issues. I figure that if I grin and bear it for a while I will just get so disgusted that I will buy the high end UCA's and replace everything. I'll chalk up the $90 and my labor to "education." :)

Oh, also, the more I thought about it the more it did not make sense that there would be any preload. I looked this up in my shop manual again and it actually indicates that you put sealant on the underside of the bolt head and nut and then torque to 40 lb-ft while holding the arm in a vise. This lends credibility to the idea that I either had them too tight, damaged the bushings, or both. I am on page 19-16 of the service manual, by the way.

[LX-incredible]

The UCAs do not need to be tightened with the car on the ground. The bushings have a bronze (or whatever) insert that pivots on the sleeve and washers.

[DBMaster]

The UCAs do not need to be tightened with the car on the ground. The bushings have a bronze (or whatever) insert that pivots on the sleeve and washers.


Awesome! I noticed the bronze, but the color was a little off and I did not identify it was bronze. So it would seem that the friction bearing surfaces are the bolt tube against the bolt and the bronze ring in the bushing against the inside of the end caps. This makes sense to me now. I have noticed another potential source for the noises. My PS strut tower has had a crack for years. Now there are two cracks and the first one is larger than it used to be. The DS tower doesn't appear to be cracked. But stiffening one area by replacing worn out ball joints could add more stress to an area like the strut top, at least laterally. I guess it's something else to research.

[LX-incredible]

The bolt, sleeve, and washers should not move. If installed properly, the UCA and bushings should be the only moving parts.

[Oldblueaccord]

I think I am going to disagree. I think the arm pivots on the bolt going thru the steel bushing all the way accross. So the bolt moves steel on steel. The bushings do nothing but dampen the noise/vibrations from the road.

Thats one of the reason I went with solid bushings no sleeve because the fit of the bolt to the sleeve is pretty damn loose to start with new and I wanted to eliminate any slop I could.


wp

[DBMaster]

Currently, I am not hearing any noises. I guess that's the most frustrating part. Everything appears to be in perfect order, but every now and then I will hear a lot of noise. Then, the next day I will hear nothing. Maybe it's one of those situations where if there is nothing technically wrong, there is nothing wrong. There are actually no broken welds in my strut towers. The cracks are just in the stuff that looks like caulk. I see no movement when bouncing the car or pushing it laterally. One of the issues with the 3g Accord that Honda "improved" with the 4g was the subframe structural rigidity. Maybe at a certain age ALL these cars are going to make noise, especially when it's cold outside. Perhaps I need to relax my perfectionist ways. I have maintained the car to be like-new throughout its entire life. There just might be a time at which I need to realize that is not possible without mega-bucks to spend on restoration work.

[Oldblueaccord]

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=274758&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/Moog/K90205_TOP.jpg

Get with it and try these out someone. Moog stole my idea!


wp

[w261w261]

DB, I know how you feel. I haven't had my SE-i since new, but since '01 and 86k miles (now 211k). A former pilot, I'm a firm believer in fixing stuff before it breaks, and I have immediately fixed anything that I feel needs it. The suspension is the one area that has been on-and-off frustrating.

I have modified it some, with Eibach Pro-kit springs and Bilstein shocks, the fronts which I had revalved *twice* before I was happy with the settings. On that score, I am perfectly happy; and like you, it takes a lot to make me perfectly happy. In high-speed sweepers with bumps the car tracks perfectly, as a Mustang discovered to his almost-into-the-Jersey Barrier-embarrassment a couple of weeks ago. The 1" drop makes it look better, and the slight increase in harshness is a very acceptable trade-off for the much better handling. I highly recommend it.

The squeaks and various bumps, however, have been a continuing challenge. I am just about to order every single blankety-blank rear suspension bushing and bolt on the car, including the big trailing arm ones (they have to be pressed in I believe), and new ones for the shock towers. Since I have replaced both rear UCA's, this had better fix the bumping that I *sometimes* experience with a rapid compression of the suspension. My mechanic will be under an absolute "if you do not slather these bushings with copious quantities of silicon grease I will ..... I will do something bad to you" orders.

On the front, I just replaced the radius arm bushings for the second time in my ownership. There was no crashing, but I began to notice a slight amount of torque steer, very gradually increasing over time. The new bushings fixed the problem.

But the main issue with the front end is the constant battle with squeaks. It seems to be most prevalent when the temp is either quite cold or very hot. I have replaced, at one time or another, all the bushings up front, and have always insisted on them being greased. I think it's been done, as I've made such a point of it with the shop. All four control arms/ball joints are pretty new, I believe it's mostly the UCA bushings that are the culprit. Coincidentally, I have an upcoming repair that will give me an excuse to replace these non-OEM bushings (my bad there).

When I bought my car, the seller mentioned that they had hit a pot hole at some point and had had to buy a new wheel and tire. Turns out that they hit so hard that the suspension mount was moved some, such that the camber was 1.1 degrees more negative on the right than on the left. When I dropped the car by 1" with the springs, it accentuated the negative camber another 1+ degrees, so it is a little much. I have bought camber-adjusting mounts to take care of the problem, which necessitates detaching the control arms, so I am going to order a new set of bushings from Honda (I now only use Honda OEM, as I have found the quality of everything else varies too widely. The only exception was when my distributor failed, and I just couldn't get my billfold to open to the tune of $500 for new OEM one. That was a junkyard visit, after Cardone sent me one that didn't work). While I'm at it, I might just order a bunch of other bushings too for the front. I'm so tired of not being able to get on top of those intermittent squeaks that I'm willing to just throw money at it.

I did once have this knocking from the right front, which was caused by a now-departed shop not torquing the UCA bushing bolt to 40. It was so loose it was making the noise. I took off the front wheel, tightened things up, fired the shop, and it as OK.

Overall, I'm very happy with the engineering choices Honda made twenty-something years ago. My only quibble is with the squeaks and the front brake rotors. Even the leather guy, when he fixed my driver's seat, commented on how the SE-i leather was very good quality, and far above the hides in other cars of the same price point. Not so bad, and why I love the car.

The other reason I love the car is I can get tremendous support for it right here, from people with far more knowledge than I have. I almost feel with my car, that I have an obligation to keep it in great shape, so that the next owner (after they pry my dead fingers from the wheel) will be motivated to do the same.

[DBMaster]

w261w261. I feel like I am stuttering when I type that!

I'm with you on most of what you said. I don't think your initial 1.1 degree negative camber was caused by a pothole. Mine had 1.4 degrees of negative camber on the front right the day it rolled off the line. Until I replaced the UCA's I used to get more wear in the inside edge of that tire. With regular rotations I could still get more or less full use from a set of tires. I did put an Ingall's kit on that UCA, but I did not like it. The kit replaces the mounting hardware and it was not as strong as the OEM mounts. I kept hearing loud clunks when shifting into reverse and lots of funny noises when it was cold. I think going with the Prelude upper arms as has been done on this forum by many might be the best way to go. Every time you replace the UCA's you will be affecting camber. The last set I had on the car netted me something that was pretty close to zero degrees. It was at least good enough to keep the tires wearing evenly.

I bought a "Brake-Tru" kit online and resurfaced my rotors on the car. The kit is so simple and it ended the pedal pulsation I was experiencing. I went with more expensive ceramic pads and haven't had a repeat of the problem in at least three years. I have had to replace the master cylinder like clockwork every 90-100K miles and I replace the brake fluid every 30K religiously.

I just replaced the three main heater hoses as a preventive measure. The originals were actually in very good shape with the exception of the end that connects under the distributor. Due to the oil leaks from the old distributor the hose was softened and bulging. There are numerous other small hoses and coolant linbes that I should probably replace, too, but I don't think I have the patience any more to try to access them. Most look very difficult to reach. I have a good mechanic so maybe when I have it in for something else I will drop off some bulk hose and ask him to do the honors.

You may have seen my other posts about the distributor. Hi Test rebuilders had a surplus of the TEC units so they were selling the remans on eBay for $150. The first one didn't work at all. The second one failed catastrophically a couple of blocks from home. That was scary. It could have just as easily left me stranded. I disassembled the third one completely and combined it with parts from my original. I had a winner at that point. Then, I happened across a brand new one on eBay for $75. It was still in the dust covered Honda box. If you want some good reading about all this go here.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66468&highlight=lazy+man

Perfectionism is truly an albatross, isn't it?

[w261w261]

261w was our old phone number in MN, before we got dial phones when I was a kid. Since I typically need more than 4 digits for a UID, I just repeated it. It has the advantage of being used by no one else.

<< There are numerous other small hoses and coolant lines that I should probably replace, too, but I don't think I have the patience any more to try to access them. Most look very difficult to reach. I have a good mechanic so maybe when I have it in for something else I will drop off some bulk hose and ask him to do the honors >>
You should buy the hoses from the dealer. They aren't all the same size, and some of them are pre-formed, with tight curves. Getting to them is easy, with the manifold (ahem) exception of the one that departs the IACV and dives under the intake plumbing. It was obscure enough that I overlooked it when I replaced all the other little hoses a couple of year ago, and I finally noticed it, along with its swelling end, probably just before it was going to fail. My mechanic said it was a bitch of a job getting the other end affixed.

I looked at a large number of posts about the camber problem, and finally decided against the Prelude arms, but now I can't remember why. I think it was because the particular mount that I bought didn't have a sliding setting like some, but actual holes for the chassis mounting bolt, and those holes corresponded to the different adjustments I needed on the right and left sides. Hopefully, I won't experience the problems you mentioned.

I vaguely remember the thread about finding the new distributor; it made me jealous, although my JY special has been fine. I saw in another thread somewhere that Cardone et al has no way to test the pseudo CPS contacts in the distributors they rebuild, so it's just luck if you get one where those are bad. I find it hard to believe, but they probably just don't want to bother.

<< Every time you replace the UCA's you will be affecting camber >>
I hope that since I only buy Honda OEM, that that will be minimized.

Interesting about the Brake-Tru kit. I'll look into it, although my rotors have been quiet for a year or two now. I don't drive the car as much as I used to (down to about 8k per year). Did the ceramic pads squeal or not perform well until they had heated up?

[DBMaster]

No issues with the ceramic pads. The Brake Tru kit is nothing more than a special type of carbide on a self adhesive fiber backing. You take off your existing pads, slap the abrasive onto them, and put the pads back in the caliper. You then run the car in drive, one wheel at a time, on a jack stand. It takes a bit of a touch, though, as you have to apply the gas and brake at the same time. I thought it sounded crazy to run the car in drive with one front wheel still on the ground, but since our cars don't have limited slip differentials the wheel on the ground does not try to move - weird. You end up with a set of concentric grooves cut into your rotors on both sides. I spoke with the mechanical engineer who invented the thing and he claims 29% increase in surface area. All I know is that it worked.

The hoses I have replaced thus far have been Honda hoses. The big heater hoses are custom molded and I think it would be a real PITA to go generic. I am thinking bulk hose only for the little pieces of larger hose between the thermostat housing and the metal lines. Those pieces are only about an inch long. I only use Gates as an aftermarket.

Here's a write-up.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2003/01/29/153839.html

[DBMaster]

I ordered all nine of the little hoses from Majestic. Looks like another day of coolant on the ground, cursing, and bruised knuckles!

[Oldblueaccord]

Im just gonna run until the end its too much work for me to jusitfy doing them all on my car at this point.



wp

[DBMaster]

Im just gonna run until the end its too much work for me to jusitfy doing them all on my car at this point.

I know how you feel. I was thinking the same, but my used car search for my daughter has been disappointing, therefore she might end up with this car. I have spent my period of unemployment replacing just about everything that even looks slightly suspect. So, my twenty year old car may end up being more reliable that cars much younger. I think I may vent a little in a new post! :)

[DBMaster]

I am reviving this thread to show off my dunce cap. D'oh!

I have a broken and totally separated left motor mount. Cheap Auto Zone crap that I put on five years ago. I just decided to check it because the noise has been awful since it got cold here. The center is totally broken away from the outer ring. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will be pretty quiet after I replace it because the bounce test produces no noise at all from the UCA's.

[codyJDM]

I am reviving this thread to show off my dunce cap. D'oh!

I have a broken and totally separated left motor mount. Cheap Auto Zone crap that I put on five years ago. I just decided to check it because the noise has been awful since it got cold here. The center is totally broken away from the outer ring. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will be pretty quiet after I replace it because the bounce test produces no noise at all from the UCA's.

Should be very quiet and feel TONS better, good job on the find haha :lol:

[Oldblueaccord]

Well see you stuck with it is the important thing. You'd be a dunce if you gave up.


wp

[w261w261]

Im just gonna run until the end its too much work for me to jusitfy doing them all on my car at this point. wp

This is the end-of-life story for a lot of our cars. They aren't classics, and are pretty good mechanically, but for many people it's straight economics. Run 'em until they drop. This will go on until only the cars are left that people keep because they love them, not because it's necessarily a good economic decision.

I'd say in another 5 years they herd will be thinned a lot. A shame, but that's life. Speaking just for myself, my car is gonna be there.

[84Accord]

i had a very similar problem. turns out it was the sway bar bushings. might want to jack the car up and check for free play in that

[DBMaster]

Well, it was a false hope, I guess. There is definitely less vibration at idle, but the noises are still there. Though the mount was completely shot I replaced the two main lower mounts earlier this year so the engine wasn't actually moving very much. Sometimes it's nice and quiet and then the noises return. I will probably break down and tear apart the UCA's and replace the aftermarket tubes and bolts with my OEM parts. I replaced the sway bar bushings just a few years ago so that's not it. By the sound of it I am thinking there may be a bit of slop inside the tubes so maybe the OEM parts will resolve that.

It gets to a point, as has been stated, that keeping the car on the road becomes somewhat of a labor of love and not economics. It's literally a hobby and deciding that I am tired of fixing things and replacing parts would be difficult since I have already put so much into it. Noises are not the end of the world. They are annoying, but as long as I know there is not an imminent failure behind them it's tolerable for now.

[Dr_Snooz]

I question that "end of life" calculus. My last couple car purchases were big disappointments. They were uglier than my 3g and in a most cases were riddled with design flaws. I just hated my 4g. My Bimmer has also been a kick in the teeth. I know I'll never find another car where the engineers went to such great lengths to make a superlative car.

When you replace a car, you have to replace all your manuals, buy new special tools, etc. etc. There's ancillary costs that you don't anticipate.

Finally, there is the learning curve associated with a newer car. It's completely different than your last car, so it's problems will stump you. On an older car, you've seen everything and you know what's about to wear out and exactly how you're going to fix it and make it better. You don't have to rely so much on the shop.

The only issue I'm genuinely worried about is the lack of parts I see coming. Right now, you can still get a lot of parts, but that will keep getting harder and harder. I'm not sure how to get around that. I'm starting by taking extra good care of the working parts I have.

[DBMaster]

I got motivated by all the cold weather that has been causing my front end to sound like a 1930's Ford tractor. I pulled both front UCA's, cleaned up my OEM sleeves, bolts, and chromed end caps, and replaced the aftermarket parts with them. The aftermarket sleeves honestly didn't look that bad. They did not have seams in them, as someone here observed with theirs. Maybe having the OEM parts, new grease, and the proper torque value will quiet them down. I hope so. They have been so noisy on cold days that the anyone riding in the car thinks it's about to lose a wheel.

[DBMaster]

Well, it's only a partial success. They are still noisy on cold mornings and my car is garaged. They are quiet once the outside temp goes above 40 or so. I guess at this point it's gotta be the cheap bushings. The metal part that contacts the end caps must be something different from OEM. Even though I have plenty of lithium grease loaded into the things they still make noise! Frustrating!

[84Accord]

did you check the nut on top of the strut tops? the one that holds the strut rod into the strut mount? mine came loose and had the same noise.

[DBMaster]

did you check the nut on top of the strut tops? the one that holds the strut rod into the strut mount? mine came loose and had the same noise.

That's a good thought! I just checked. They do appear to be a bit loose, but not the source of the noise. I wanted to tighten them, but they will not budge. You can't use a socket on the nut because it just turns the whole strut rod and I don't seem to be able to find anything that will hold the rod snug enough to turn the nut.

[84Accord]

That's a good thought! I just checked. They do appear to be a bit loose, but not the source of the noise. I wanted to tighten them, but they will not budge. You can't use a socket on the nut because it just turns the whole strut rod and I don't seem to be able to find anything that will hold the rod snug enough to turn the nut.

you have to use an allen wrench/ hex key, or w/e else they are called lol? to hold the screw part still while turning the nut.

[DBMaster]

Mine do not have hex insets. They just have a couple of flats on the top you have to grip with a vice grip or small wrench. I don't think there is enough play there to be the cause of the noises. I believe that the aftermarket bushings do not use the right kind of insert material. I replaced the UCA's because of worn out ball joints and the noises I am describing are definitely from the UCA bushing area. The amount of noise is temperature dependent. If it bugs me a lot I guess I will have to disassemble yet again and try using Moog bushings.

[DBMaster]

I apologize for continuing to bore y'all with this crap. Today the temperature was nearly springlike and the creaking noises were still there. I took a chance and messed with the tightness of the long bolts because I cannot fit my torque wrench in the wheel well. I was able to get the noises to stop by reducing the torque on those bolts. I recall that same technique working in the past when my mechanic replaced the UCA's. So, I can't say what the torque value is right now. It might be as little as 20-30 ft lbs. I played with it a good while and found that beyond a certain level of "tightness" they would start creaking when I bounced the car. I made them as tight as they would go without creaking. Since the nuts are self-locking they should be OK, but I will keep an eye on them for a while.

Maybe Honda had it right after all when they did away with upper UCA's in later generations. I guess it's a tradeoff because the suspension we have tends to maintain maximum tire contact when cornering, but look at all the issues when the car is older.

[Dr_Snooz]

If you get a bad set of bushings, you'll have to endure constant racket. I've been real happy with my Moogs. I'd shoot some Loctite on those nuts but just keep an eye on it.

[DBMaster]

Excellent idea. I put some Loctite on the exposed threads. They are easy enough to monitor, but the LT is cheap insurance. If the nuts fell off completely the bolts really couldn't back out too far, though.

[DBMaster]

OK, maybe this will be the last post in this thread. I was still thinking about what 84Accord said about the strut rod nuts. Even after messing with the tightness of the bolts there was still quite a racket on cold days. I just got a bit desperate and popped the plastic caps on the strut towers and sprayed a generous amount of silicon lubricant around the washers. We had icy roads last night and the thing has been miraculously quiet. Do you think maybe the rubber parts on top of the struts are a bit shrunken? Maybe putting new, tight, UCA's forces the struts to move more thus resulting in noise from the strut towers. All I know is that I went from creaks and squeaks to nothing - for a week thus far. I might be onto something.