Nitrous

[Sik_sohc]

Fellas i have earned alot of money to mod the shit out of my car now, but here is the question could i run a 50 shot of nitrous on my A20a4 engine without blowing it and what mods will i have to do? Here is the kit i have in mind http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ZEX-82021-350Z-G35-IS300-Supra-WET-Nitrous-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1209Q7c66Q3a2 Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3 a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem 370114158576QQitemZ370114158576QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5 fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[Vanilla Sky]

Sure, but I'm willing to bet you'd be much happier spending that $550 on a rebuild for your engine. You'd end up with a blown motor if you go with nitrous first. With a well built engine, you'd have a reliable mill to toss a nitrous kit onto.

[Sik_sohc]

Sure, but I'm willing to bet you'd be much happier spending that $550 on a rebuild for your engine. You'd end up with a blown motor if you go with nitrous first. With a well built engine, you'd have a reliable mill to toss a nitrous kit onto.

where can i find a rebuild kit for my car

[itzdave]

where can i find a rebuild kit for my car

for starters...
1. 'ZEX' nitrous kits work WITH ur fuel system/computer. and im pretty sure its not gunna fly with OBD-0

2. for a rebuild kit. just call around at some local speed shops and see where they lead ya, might even try a few just yards. ask for something like like the bearings or rings and they might be able to direct you to the right place.
thats how i did it...

[Sik_sohc]

for starters...
1. 'ZEX' nitrous kits work WITH ur fuel system/computer. and im pretty sure its not gunna fly with OBD-0

2. for a rebuild kit. just call around at some local speed shops and see where they lead ya, might even try a few just yards. ask for something like like the bearings or rings and they might be able to direct you to the right place.
thats how i did it...

you dont need to tune with nitrous just coler plugs better cables and a good exhaust like pacesetter header back and set degrees timing back and your good to go

[itzdave]

you dont need to tune with nitrous just coler plugs better cables and a good exhaust like pacesetter header back and set degrees timing back and your good to go

'ZEX' kits come with a whole computer thingy called the 'nitrous management unit' that ya hook urs up to, its supposed to help you from blowing ur motor by modifiying the output due to bottle pressure, bottle temp, egt, intake temp and a bunch of other stuff...
its made to be a failsafe / 'safer nitrous system

[2ndGenGuy]

When you add Nitrous you MUST ADD FUEL to the mixture. Nitrous is just adding extra oxygen, it's the OXIDE that does something. If you don't, you're going to lean your engine out and it's going to burn up.

The only way the kit will work with your computer is:

A) Your fuel injection system will detect the extra "air" in the system via an airflow meter or something of the like, (which I'm pretty sure the 3gee doesn't do) and compensates by adding more fuel.

B) The kit has one of those things that tricks the computer into adding more fuel by modifying the sensor inputs. What do you call those, like an SAFC or whatever.

That's why there are "WET" kits that inject fuel AND nitrous in a proportional spray. Since carbs can't add extra fuel, you run wet kits with carbs, or probably primitive fuel injection systems.

I might be wrong, since I don't know fuel injection very well, but this is just what I've learned after some minimal research.

[Sik_sohc]

well i will be getting a wet kid and an ostrich tuned by ectune:rockon:

[ghettogeddy]

That's why there are "WET" kits that inject fuel AND nitrous in a proportional spray. Since carbs can't add extra fuel, you run wet kits with carbs, or probably primitive fuel injection systems.

x2

[2oodoor]

you dont need to tune with nitrous just coler plugs better cables and a good exhaust like pacesetter header back and set degrees timing back and your good to go
:kekeke: you betta get some alcohol injection to go with it, and yes you do need a custom timing map with nitrous. You have so much money, why not turbo? those last hella lot longer if you are conservative with boost and generous with buying quality parts.

[ghettogeddy]

:kekeke: you betta get some alcohol injection to go with it, and yes you do need a custom timing map with nitrous. You have so much money, why not turbo? those last hella lot longer if you are conservative with boost and generous with buying quality parts.

still best to do an obd- 1 swap with a turbo

[codyJDM]

Don't waste money on spray man.

Unreliable and just plain stupid IMO.

Rebuild your motor, and start working on internals that can handle the power you want to make.

[Sik_sohc]

Don't waste money on spray man.

Unreliable and just plain stupid IMO.

Rebuild your motor, and start working on internals that can handle the power you want to make.

well could i get at least 150 hp with just bolt ons or no and i know your gonna tell me to search but is it possible

[Vanilla Sky]

Well, what do you consider "bolt on?" Chevy guys consider heads as "bolt on parts," and everyone considers a turbo kit a "bolt on" affair (provided the kit is a full kit).

With the "bolt on" parts available for the 3gee, I'm going to say no. Most of the parts I would consider bolt on might bring it up to that point, but you probably wouldn't want to be spending that much money on the engine before a rebuild anyway.

[Sik_sohc]

why do i need a damn rebuild engine runs perfect im thinking like header back exhaust, intake and msd igniton and all that stuff would i gain anything from that or no

[codyJDM]

well could i get at least 150 hp with just bolt ons or no and i know your gonna tell me to search but is it possible

haha no man I'm not gonna tell you to search at all. There isn't much to be searched, it is just a straight deal. A "refreshed" healthy engine runs better and stronger in turn putting out more solid power and a better foundation for bolt ons such as I/H/E

Try getting a cam regrind, and doing some headwork if you're apprehensive to do a rebuild. That will help you out quite a bit too.

Not trying to tell you what to do or anything, its by all means your car, but I'm just giving you some advice

[codyJDM]

why do i need a damn rebuild engine runs perfect im thinking like header back exhaust, intake and msd igniton and all that stuff would i gain anything from that or no

Yes, that would be a very noticable gain. I have all that stuff and it made my car feel totally different.

Get yourself a pacesetter 4-2-1 header(or a DC if you're lucky)

Make a cold air intake or buy AEM for a DA integra and cut it to fit

Get a good 2.25" catback exhaust made with a nice free flowing muffler

A good coil, wires, and plug set up

And then do the basic tune-up routine, fuel filters, cap and rotor, air filter, maybe some seafoam, etc. etc.

There is a lot you need to do before thinking about crazy shit like nitrous.

[Sik_sohc]

Yes, that would be a very noticable gain. I have all that stuff and it made my car feel totally different.

Get yourself a pacesetter 4-2-1 header(or a DC if you're lucky)

Make a cold air intake or buy AEM for a DA integra and cut it to fit

Get a good 2.25" catback exhaust made with a nice free flowing muffler

A good coil, wires, and plug set up

And then do the basic tune-up routine, fuel filters, cap and rotor, air filter, maybe some seafoam, etc. etc.

There is a lot you need to do before thinking about crazy shit like nitrous.


how much wheel hp do you think you have a pic of your engine bay

[Rendon LX-i]

agreed bro....My buddy taught the same so she shot a 75 shot on his civic did it 4 TIMES and the last time i just saw smoke lol that was it....Its basicly thowing sand in your motor if you dont be careful....You should really look into obd1 swap...Doesnt look that hard im going to be doing that myself. Can i ask WHY you want to do nitrious?

[Tdurr]

hey, I have a rebuilt motor(8k on it) and i was supposed to get it dynoed(f*&kn 10 bucks short..) but I would guess i have 110-122whp. mushroomtoy(with 2 dying cylinders) had 90hp 95tq.
So what i am saying, if you have money, do a rebuild, (if you dont wanna) then do obd1, ectune + tune, along with I/H/E, then you should surprise ppl on the street.

If you have 1,500 or more, then OBD1, and turbo. Nuff said.(and i still want ur lip!)

[2oodoor]

^^^^ probably got pwned by that weber power :eatarrow:
those mods I, H and msd will be mostly seat of the pants HP, yes they will give you a smooth steady "burst" or band of power but not really increases beyond 10 percent which if you had 100 HP you would have 110.
Of course you will always pick up some guff guff by fine tuning what you have already without any "bolt ons".
I believe the Lxi A20a3 has a good flowing exhaust manifold, and downpipe from the factory, so well yes you get a better flow with some tuned headers. But wow are they hella lot lighter, nothing like dropping weight off these cars.

Nitrous can put a lot of pressure on the piston rings and rods so if there is a weak link in that chian of parts it can take out the rest, likely losing oil pressure and compression. The example of the Civic, those D series have soft rings from the factory.. a number of reasons they do. So anytime you do something to those it is really a good thing to re ring those.
A20xx have different characteristics, they could hold up to increased pressure but if it has scores or scrubbing in that cyl and ring assy, it is a toss of the dice. Pull the head off, you should do that anyway before your decision. Then you can inspect the cyl, although you could use one of those new inspection cameras to look see. Add to that the unknown condition of the bearings, and internal seals such as oil pumps, valve seals, filter base adapter seals, etc. .
Ask any drag racer, they will tell you that nitrous motors will scatter, blow gaskets, make the head dance up off the block and then reseal after cooling down (Im antimating that only slightley, lol) They have to build motors all the time. It is radical (and illegal some places) to spray a daily driven car. Of course I would probably be on board for a sneaky pete set up with juice, but expecting to gamble, it is par for the course..
You are doing the right thing by being honest , and asking for feedback, then make an informed decision. Your idea is not way out there, but be careful not to keep wanting more and more out of that bottle.

On a side note, my plain jane DX, only mod is a 38 weber...naturally a devacuum comes with that. Anyway, that car has a choked up exhaust and downpipe, original cat and stock muffler. This car picked up a lot of power with just that, and it sounds like it has exhaust mods, beyond the growl of the Weber. I had a D series civic with a CAI and it had a sound to it, but most of it was just induction bog, opeing it up just made it go waaa a little more... but the Accord is pushing the car the whole time wanting another gear. Like some others have said, Obd 1, or a more adjustable tune, however you go about that. Head flow, of course exhaust flow, prelude injectors, light weight 15 inch allloy wheels (11-15 lbs ea), correct thurst angle with your lowered car (aligned with state of the art equipment) tri flow cam.. all of that will put you on the mark of 20 percent or better HP increases and a car that is easier to push with less HP.

[itzdave]

or you could always just gut it out. ditch the rear seats and all the trunk stuff. ive even ditched the power steering and air conditioning systems. nitrous is prolly just gunna blow ur motor in less than a year...

[markmdz89hatch]

roo, dave and cody are right IMO. Spray is so appealing because of the cost, but you have to know that this initial 'low' cost comes at a potentially high cost on the back-end.

If you just do a rebuild, you end up with a more reliable motor and pick back up some of the power lost from the years of driving on it. I'm guessing a compression test will show considerably less compression then stock due to worn rings. Blow-by is a very real scenario for the 3G (despite it's good factory rings, and other internals) just due to their age. This applies to just about any motor btw, not exclusive to the 3G.

So, if you spray an already worn (but by no means am I saying the current motor is not good for DD) motor, you'll just amplify any mild leaks, weaknesses, etc by huge amounts.

Also bare in mind that spray is just an instant burst of power when you spray, but otherwise, you still have a 100hp setup. Don't forget too, about the cost to refill that bottle on a regular basis, as I'm guessing if you went this route, you'd spray on a daily basis.

Here's my take on power mods... When anyone comes to me asking what to do to make their car 'faster' my first response is upgrade the suspension (and don't half-ass it). Their response is always, "but that's not an hp gain". Me: "No shit? I didn't know that." But it does allow you to put whatever power you do have to much better use. Next is the wheels/tires. Then brakes. Don't make a car fast, then realize you can't stop it. I see this with Mustangs all the time. (Not trying to pick on them, just using it as an example.) They slap on a KennyBell, boost power to north of 600hp, make one launch and peel the tires off the wheels, as the ass dips and the front prepares for lift-off due to marshmallow suspension, then realize your brakes can't stop that 5000lb locomotive once it's moving full steam ahead.

Ok, so then that begs the question of just what you're trying to accomplish, and why.

Why do you want more power? How much is enough/too little/too much? What do you intend to do with this new-found power when (if) you get it? What part of this power makes driving 'fun'?

If it's the ability to power launch and blast an Evo on a light-to-light, then fact is it's not going to happen. If the goal is to be able to rip through twisties in a non-residential back road, then suspension/brakes and minor bolt-ons (intake/header/exhaust/ignition/cam) will make throttle response much better, and will yield MUCH more fun.

Remember, power is all relative. Suspension/braking (all mechanicals, traction, etc.) aside, POWER is only 50% of the equation. The other 50% is weight. A motorcycle with only 40hp will destroy most any car out there. A Yammy R6 with 135 (engine) hp will eat any 500hp Ferrari for dinner. Why? Because power/weight ratio is just plain stupid. Although the 3G only claims a 120 crank hp (new, not with 100K+ mi), it's much lighter than the new Accord, and lighter then the new Civic if I'm not mistaken. So bear in mind that your 120hp is the equivelant to (just a guess without running the numbers here) some 150+ hp in a new Accord.

[Rendon LX-i]

x2

[markmdz89hatch]

ok, I'm back and with some crunched numbers...

Below are two numbers for each car. 1st number is the hp/lb, and the second is lb/hp just so you can see it cut either way, and figure what's easier for you to understand.

2008 Accord 4D (2.4L): 190 hp, 3349 lbs
.0567 hp/lb or 17.63 lb/hp

1989 Accord 4D: 120 hp, 2600 lbs
.0462 hp/lb or 21.67 lb/hp

2008 Civic 4D (1.8L): 140 hp, 2738 lbs
.0511 hp/lb or 19.56 lb/hp

....ok, so take that number, and with Intake, Header, Exhaust, Intake, Wires, Cap/rotor, Plugs, Mild-grind Cam, and some timing tweaks you can expect maybe about 130-135 whp on a rebuilt motor, which should translate to about 140-150 hp at the crank, and with the replacement of the stock cast exhaust manny with a welded pipe (Pace or DC), you'll lose a good 10-12 lbs.

So...
How's this for you:
1989 Accord LX-i 4DR tweaked: 145 hp, 2590 lbs
.0560 hp/lb or 17.86 lb/hp.

Those numbers are considerably better than the Civic, and damn near spot on with the '08 4cyl Accord. Still not talking rocket ship, but fun. IMHO the 3G suspension will help put and keep the power useable, much better than the new Accord. Not only that, but I'm sure the percentage of power loss crank to wheels is less in the 3G than the 8G.

[codyJDM]

ok, I'm back and with some crunched numbers...

Below are two numbers for each car. 1st number is the hp/lb, and the second is lb/hp just so you can see it cut either way, and figure what's easier for you to understand.

2008 Accord 4D (2.4L): 190 hp, 3349 lbs
.0567 hp/lb or 17.63 lb/hp

1989 Accord 4D: 120 hp, 2600 lbs
.0462 hp/lb or 21.67 lb/hp

2008 Civic 4D (1.8L): 140 hp, 2738 lbs
.0511 hp/lb or 19.56 lb/hp

....ok, so take that number, and with Intake, Header, Exhaust, Intake, Wires, Cap/rotor, Plugs, Mild-grind Cam, and some timing tweaks you can expect maybe about 130-135 whp on a rebuilt motor, which should translate to about 140-150 hp at the crank, and with the replacement of the stock cast exhaust manny with a welded pipe (Pace or DC), you'll lose a good 10-12 lbs.

So...
How's this for you:
1989 Accord LX-i 4DR tweaked: 145 hp, 2590 lbs
.0560 hp/lb or 17.86 lb/hp.

Those numbers are considerably better than the Civic, and damn near spot on with the '08 4cyl Accord. Still not talking rocket ship, but fun. IMHO the 3G suspension will help put and keep the power useable, much better than the new Accord. Not only that, but I'm sure the percentage of power loss crank to wheels is less in the 3G than the 8G.

Couldn't have made the point any clearer. gj on the figures man :thumbup:

[Civic Accord Honda]

no nitrous just rebuild your motor and go turbo or something

[cubert]

I cant remember where i heard it, but....


Bottles are for babies :lol


Spend the money elsewhere....in other words, listen to Mark :thumbup:

[2ndGenGuy]

I dunno Mark, you really think with bolt-ons like you listed you can get 25hp? That's a 20% increase in power... Seems kinda high considering Messy only put down like 115whp with a full tune and a cam. If the drivetrain is really a 15% loss, that's 132bhp. Which is really good, but he had a full tune to get the most out of the modifications, which unfortunately you won't get with the stock computer. Typically with the mods like his and what you speak of, it's a 10-15% tested and true increase. I'd say look for around 130-135bhp with bolt ons.

If you have MINOR headwork done, then I could see achieving 145bhp. Just look at rjudgey's recent A20 build. Stock bottom end w/ minor headwork done, actually did net him that much power. And I guarantee that his carbs are going to produce more peak power than the plenum style intake manifold as well.

[Demon1024]

Remember, power is all relative.
lol my sig right there!

The bracket for the ac alone is like 5or8 lbs i would guess + compressor at almost that much more. but for the love of passengers leave the back seat in!
you never know when that pair of cute chicks need a ride to where ever. "I'm not sitting there or I'm not going alone" comes to mind....been there.

but yeah go rebuild and try for higher compression. maybe shaved head or domed pistons?

[markmdz89hatch]

I dunno Mark, you really think with bolt-ons like you listed you can get 25hp? That's a 20% increase in power... Seems kinda high considering Messy only put down like 115whp with a full tune and a cam. If the drivetrain is really a 15% loss, that's 132bhp. Which is really good, but he had a full tune to get the most out of the modifications, which unfortunately you won't get with the stock computer. Typically with the mods like his and what you speak of, it's a 10-15% tested and true increase. I'd say look for around 130-135bhp with bolt ons.

If you have MINOR headwork done, then I could see achieving 145bhp. Just look at rjudgey's recent A20 build. Stock bottom end w/ minor headwork done, actually did net him that much power. And I guarantee that his carbs are going to produce more peak power than the plenum style intake manifold as well.

You're completely right. I forgot that Messy had done a 115whp run on a pretty well built motor. That said, I agree I should be more conservative and go with the 130-135. Do we know if he's got A/C in his? Pulling at straws here, but every little bit counts when you're looking to scavenge lost power for dirt cheap right?

Sorry about that.

[Tdurr]

i wish i had gotten a dyno.. i could have helped you guys alot on this one..