Gave up on the A20...

[God]

So after a lot of research I have come to the conclusion that the A20 is not cost effective for the amount of power that Im wanting to produce I have 13k set aside for this build so I did some looking and found this



however Im not sure what tranny it comes with I want to run a Y1 though but not sure where to find one if anyone knows this it would be a huge help Im going to run the Hondata P28 ECU with the S300 upgrade. After I get it running really smooth going to go forced induction. Also how do you get the stock speedo to work with the Y1 tranny. I know that hatchback with the coilover supspension and the B-Series has his working but not sure on what tranny he is using and if the the Y1 isnt availible the S1 will work without having to convert to hydro clutch system. And by chance does anyone know what tranny comes on that B18C1

[God]

Sorry link didnt show up here it is

http://www.jazzproparts.com/B18C1_GSR_p/b18c1.htm

[2ndGenGuy]

$3000 for a 160hp motor? Isn't that a fairly high compression engine to be running a turbo on? I'd think a turbo A20 would be far more cost effective. Especially since we have members putting down over 200hp with turbos and fairly mild builds. Also since you're doing Hondata and going to built mounts, etc. AccordTheory probably still has his whoop-ass A20 turbo manifold for sale.

You're going to be starting with a used, $3000 motor, then doing everything to that motor that you'll wind up doing to the A20. And then when you're done, you'll still have a used motor. You could put together a mildly built A20 that will probably handle the boost better for that same $3000, and it will be a totally new, refreshed engine. Then put your Hondata computer on it, and all the turbo fabwork that you'll need on that B-series anyways... save the hassle of the mounts, axles, shift linkage, speedo, etc etc... and probably have near the same horsepower.

[2drSE-i]

c1 is an OK boost motor, the b18c5 is the one you wanna stay away from. If you ask me (And trust me, no1 ever has or will) id stick with the a20. Far stronger, and only lacking in performance valve train parts.

[God]

Hmmm... well IDK Bisimoto said that his company can make any parts i need or want but he said that he never buildt a A20 before and only has cams for the motor in production I have aslo thought about a B16A and just doing a OBD1 conversion on that yes I know it has next to NO TQ but it would easyly put the car into the 11s and still be somewhat streetable thats not going to happen with a A20

[2drSE-i]

We are actually working with bisimoto very soon about getting some parts made. We have a head and a cam, we just need to put the parts together and get them sent in.

[2ndGenGuy]

Hmmm... well IDK Bisimoto said that his company can make any parts i need or want but he said that he never buildt a A20 before and only has cams for the motor in production I have aslo thought about a B16A and just doing a OBD1 conversion on that yes I know it has next to NO TQ but it would easyly put the car into the 11s and still be somewhat streetable thats not going to happen with a A20

A B16A will not get the car into the 11s. Might get you into the 14s if you're lucky! Or are you talking forced induction still?

[LiTtLe xOx BitT]

When you say cost effective what do you mean? Yea, it will cost you about 3-4k to turbo your 3g safely and use as a d/d, as where if it was a civic it would be about 2k to do the same. But if your talking about buying a 4k motor and the tranny for it, custom axels, custom mounts, custom wiring, the parts to go turbo, plus rebuilding that motor to support boost your going to spend like 7-8k. How is that cost effective? plus since you made your car go faster you should make is stop faster to be safe so a full disc brake setup with some drilled/slotted rotors would help but will cost more. For that same 7-8k you can take your A20 and have a full turbo build done ( by full build i mean built motor, built tranny, clutch, obd-1 swap, manifold, all turbo parts, wiring, etc..) and still spend about 4k. Then take the other 3-4k and do a full disc brake setup, full suspension upgrade, better wheels and tires, plus do cosmetic things that make the car look better like new paint, body work, tint, interior work, audio system, etc... Basically what im trying to get at is this. You can spend 8k and have a older not so nice looking car with old/worn parts and a turbo JDM B18, or you can have an older great looking car with all new and performance parts throughout the whole car with a turbo A20 for the same price. Which one do you think is cost effective?? Plus if you go with the second option of sticking with the A20 and all, by the time your done your car will basically be new, plus it will be turboed, have great handling, look great, etc. which in my opinion getting a car like that isnt bad for 8k, plus still has that old school look to it. If I had a 3g with 8k to spend then thats definatly the way i would go, but thats just me.

[Rendon LX-i]

i think Little xox bitt said it all my friend...plus a A20 Block alot strong then your B,D Series block...

[MessyHonda]

lols

[mushroom_toy]

If you have 13k set aside you can build a very nice motor and setup for this cash.

[God]

When I said I have 13K thats just for motor mods I know about the other things you have to do to be safe. Yes no matter what motor I do it will be forced induction I already have a T3/T4 turbo for the car. Im looking to do around 375 at the wheels and I just dont see that happening on the A20 and still be streetable yes I know there is a A20 in the 9s and a few in the 10s but they are full race only cars Im wanting something like a 11.4-11.6 and still be able to take it out on the weekends or for cruiser night. The same website I can get a B16A for $1700 which isnt too bad because it comes with everything you need to do the swap minus motor mounts but Im going to have those custom made. Now i figure with a B16A with the Y1 tranny(comes with engine package) with these mods


Eagle 1.8L stroker kit(9.3:1 compression)
ported and polished head
Skunk2 Mani
T3/T4 Turbo kit(12-14psi on the streets, 22psi when at the track on C16)
Skunk2 70mm TB
Skunk2 Stage 2 Turbo Cam

The guy at skunk2 said that even with the street boost I should easyly be way over 350 and he said if i didnt hit around the 470-480 mark it would be a shock to him.

You said a buildt tranny for the A20 where can you even find stuff to make you tranny stronger other the just swapping gears around. You will never find a LSD for the A20 and having forged gears forget it. Yes I will admitt if you are looking for a DD that is fun like a low 14 second car you can get away with the A20 but if you are looking for a power house a motor swap is the only way to go.

[Nafs Asdf]

Then why not just get a civic?

[cubert]

Then why not just get a civic?


my thoughts exactly...

[God]

Then why not just get a civic?


The same reason you dont you want to be different then every other tuner out there. I understand you guys are dedicated A20 people and maybe some day in the future people will start building more and more powerful A20s on the street but right now I just dont see it happening

[Nafs Asdf]

I get that. But with the setup you're going for, putting it in a civic would net you a faster car costing you less money and less work. If you truly want something unique, I don't see how that's going to happen with a B16/18. (unless you put it in a 1g hatch, that'd be a killer ride) ;)

Anyhow, whatever you end up with I hope you get what you want out of your project :)

[LiTtLe xOx BitT]

Your forgetting about the cost of the custom work. Even if you get parts for cheap, you will spend 4k just on fabricating mounts, axels, wiring, etc... Stick to the A20 and keep the 3g true, if not get another car like a civic or integra so you will have yourself tons of money.

[2ndGenGuy]

I like the Turbo A20, but if you actually go through with a B-series in your 3gee, then I think it's pretty bitchen, too. Not a lot of people with a B-series 3gee.

[rfiks]

b4 you bern a hole in your pocket buying a shitty b-series if you want power go "g23". you'll spend alil UNDER half your savings and you will b able to beat s2k's, k24's and mustangs! import tuner feb. 09 issue did a story on a $5,000 "g23" build and yieded 248.6hp & 181.2lb-ft torque N/A! a b18c would run u bout 5grand with less hp&tq, and k20 type-s bout 6-8grand also with less hp&tq. good luck with whatever you choose to build! with stock head and block the comp. comes out to bout 8.8:1 perfect for a turbo!http://www.preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302555&highlight=g23

[cubert]

or he could buy a "shitty" LS b18, boost the shit out of that and not have to deal with all the frankenstein motor bs :thumbup:
then theres the whole getting the F block to fit in the 3g....




I say if you want to keep the 3g stick with the A20...there are plenty of knowledgeable people here who can help you with that.

[MessyHonda]

i just want to see your work.

[Civic Accord Honda]

When you say cost effective what do you mean? Yea, it will cost you about 3-4k to turbo your 3g safely and use as a d/d, as where if it was a civic it would be about 2k to do the same. But if your talking about buying a 4k motor and the tranny for it, custom axels, custom mounts, custom wiring, the parts to go turbo, plus rebuilding that motor to support boost your going to spend like 7-8k. How is that cost effective? plus since you made your car go faster you should make is stop faster to be safe so a full disc brake setup with some drilled/slotted rotors would help but will cost more. For that same 7-8k you can take your A20 and have a full turbo build done ( by full build i mean built motor, built tranny, clutch, obd-1 swap, manifold, all turbo parts, wiring, etc..) and still spend about 4k. Then take the other 3-4k and do a full disc brake setup, full suspension upgrade, better wheels and tires, plus do cosmetic things that make the car look better like new paint, body work, tint, interior work, audio system, etc... Basically what im trying to get at is this. You can spend 8k and have a older not so nice looking car with old/worn parts and a turbo JDM B18, or you can have an older great looking car with all new and performance parts throughout the whole car with a turbo A20 for the same price. Which one do you think is cost effective?? Plus if you go with the second option of sticking with the A20 and all, by the time your done your car will basically be new, plus it will be turboed, have great handling, look great, etc. which in my opinion getting a car like that isnt bad for 8k, plus still has that old school look to it. If I had a 3g with 8k to spend then thats definatly the way i would go, but thats just me.

word

[labeledsk8r]

You said a buildt tranny for the A20 where can you even find stuff to make you tranny stronger other the just swapping gears around. You will never find a LSD for the A20 and having forged gears forget it. Yes I will admitt if you are looking for a DD that is fun like a low 14 second car you can get away with the A20 but if you are looking for a power house a motor swap is the only way to go.

i hate to say it but you must not search very well.. there are guys on here that are turbo that are running LSD's in there tranys...

[Low_Rida]

If you have so much time and money and you want power, why not drop a H22 if your making custom mounts and all? That solves your power problem and im shure it will meet your other aspectations, and I think there are a few sucussfull H22 swaps on here. [correct me if im wrong] I know I would love to have the money to drop a H22 but that might just be me.

[cygnus x-1]

I'm not seeing how an A20 tranny will handle 375HP at the wheels. What did JohhnyO do to his to make it work?

The other thing to think about here is support; which by that I mean tuning and other knowledge about the motor you will be running. Whatever motor you run will need to be built and tuned by someone who knows what they are doing. So I would talk to whomever will be doing this work and see what they are familiar with. If they think they can boost an A20 to those levels reliably, then yeah, go for it. But if they don't have any experience with a boosted A20 and they end up roasting the motor during tuning, how good a decision was the A20 then? And who will end up paying for this mistake? Not the tuner I assure you.

As cool as a turbo A20 would be, it will be harder to find competent support for.

C|

[God]

I'm not seeing how an A20 tranny will handle 375HP at the wheels. What did JohhnyO do to his to make it work?

The other thing to think about here is support; which by that I mean tuning and other knowledge about the motor you will be running. Whatever motor you run will need to be built and tuned by someone who knows what they are doing. So I would talk to whomever will be doing this work and see what they are familiar with. If they think they can boost an A20 to those levels reliably, then yeah, go for it. But if they don't have any experience with a boosted A20 and they end up roasting the motor during tuning, how good a decision was the A20 then? And who will end up paying for this mistake? Not the tuner I assure you.

As cool as a turbo A20 would be, it will be harder to find competent support for.

C|


My point exactly


And as far as a H22 I have no respect for that motor I have had very bad luck with those(88 CRX with a H22, and a 92 Accord with a H22) and will not ever put one in one of my cars.

[Low_Rida]

My point exactly


And as far as a H22 I have no respect for that motor I have had very bad luck with those(88 CRX with a H22, and a 92 Accord with a H22) and will not ever put one in one of my cars.

i have never actually droped an H22 before but i have heard some good things about them.

[God]

Im not say the H22 isnt a good motor im just saying i never had good luck with them. I know this is going to sound weird but I have never had a B16 powered car and I think that the 3G would be a good car to put one in and as far as the mounts the shop said they can know they could get them made for around 600 the engine package im getting comes with a wiring harness and i will just run in OBD-0 for awhile to get all the bugs worked out then im going to get the hondata P28 with the s300 chip then build the motor with turbo... but since you guys are saying that I can get into the 11s with a A20 on the streets I would like to see links to some of these super high powered A20 powered accords thanks oh and where do you get a LSD for the A20 and what tranny is in our 3G's anyway

[Low_Rida]

i have had a B16 and a B18, i liked the B18 better [this was in a civic] good thing about civics is they drop in a hella lot easier than a 3G

[2drSE-i]

I'm not seeing how an A20 tranny will handle 375HP at the wheels. What did JohhnyO do to his to make it work?

C|


JohnnyO Solved his own problems. He had a tranny adapter plate made that allowed him to run B-series trannys.

[89T]

i believe that was haveanosday that ran the adapter plate for the b series trans, as far as i know johnnyo was running a stock tranny. I have had multiple conversations with him on the subject...He assured me that he was running a stock tranny.

"god" i am running a phantom grip lsd..

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/491/lsdclutchinstall018fe3.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lsdclutchinstall018fe3.jpg)

[MessyHonda]

I'm not seeing how an A20 tranny will handle 375HP at the wheels. What did JohhnyO do to his to make it work?

The other thing to think about here is support; which by that I mean tuning and other knowledge about the motor you will be running. Whatever motor you run will need to be built and tuned by someone who knows what they are doing. So I would talk to whomever will be doing this work and see what they are familiar with. If they think they can boost an A20 to those levels reliably, then yeah, go for it. But if they don't have any experience with a boosted A20 and they end up roasting the motor during tuning, how good a decision was the A20 then? And who will end up paying for this mistake? Not the tuner I assure you.

As cool as a turbo A20 would be, it will be harder to find competent support for.

C|

he made a adapter plate...but he was running in the 9s

with a b-series trans

[89T]

i copy/pasted some pms from johnnyO and got a link for haveanosday.
http://www.honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p=20309422&postcount=1





i almost forgot to ask.
what trans were you running with you'r a20?
i am barly at 234hp/224 torque, and the trans is just not holding up.
once i get the head work done i want to turn the boost up to 20 or 30#'s or about 450-500hp,but i am affraid that i will just keep burning up transmission's.
any advice you can give me? i would appreciate any help!
I used the stock trans. what are you burning up in the tranny?
well when i changed the trans oil there were alote of shavings, and the oil was a greenish in color.
my guess is that the syncros are taking a beating.
in order to get any traction i have to do a 2nd gear burnout on drag radials at 12psi tire pressure.
I never had a problem with the trans till i started doing the 2nd gear burnouts. on a hard launch i grab for 2nd and nothing, it wont go in.
third gear is starting to grind when i go in to gear also. I also have some movement in the final drive gear at the axles.
the trans needs to be rebuilt at this point but i figured i would give you a shout to see what you did to handle the power before i did anything.
I also used just honda tranny fuild, but it sounds like the syncros are gone. you should take it apart inspect the sync. and the gears quite throughly.i used to do second and third gear burnouts and it has no effects on the syncros

[SOHC]

whats the point of having links to pictures that dont work?

[89T]

it seem's to me they worked 9 months ago when the link was posted.