Master Cylinder Differences

[85Skyhawk]

Hello,
I have a 86 Accord LXi hatchback (3Dr). I already have the front calipers off an 89 Accord LXi hatchback. I'm interested in upgrading my existing brakes to the larger 89 ones both front and rear. What I would like to know is will a master cylinder off an 89 LXi fit on my power brake booster? It appears Honda made a change in both the booster and MC for 88-89 models. I really don't want to fool around with the booster if I don't have to. Thanks for the assistance.

[codyJDM]

I am currently doing the same thing.

The brake boosters are the same, the 88-89 master cylinder diameter was increased a fraction of an inch to accommodate the larger piston/calipers. You can use your 86-87 LXi master cylinder, you will just have a little more pedal travel.

While the calipers are off I recommend you rebuild them if you haven't already. Really easy and cheap.

[itzdave]

so... i kinda got a lil question, not tryin to jack ya thread or anything. but i was just lookin at autozone's website for some calipers and i found one called 'Brake Caliper Loaded Pair - Front' its 195 bux
then i found 'Brake Caliper - Front' for like 60 bux each side
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

http://www.autozone.com/R,1763356/vehicleId,1104202/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,3385/partType,00852/shopping/partProductDetail.htm

http://www.autozone.com/R,93407/vehicleId,1104202/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,3385/partType,00767/shopping/partProductDetail.htm

[codyJDM]

I think the individuals don't have the part that slides, idk. Can't really tell. The loaded pair is probably complete with bracket, pads, etc.

[russiankid]

so... i kinda got a lil question, not tryin to jack ya thread or anything. but i was just lookin at autozone's website for some calipers and i found one called 'Brake Caliper Loaded Pair - Front' its 195 bux
then i found 'Brake Caliper - Front' for like 60 bux each side
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

http://www.autozone.com/R,1763356/vehicleId,1104202/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,3385/partType,00852/shopping/partProductDetail.htm

http://www.autozone.com/R,93407/vehicleId,1104202/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,3385/partType,00767/shopping/partProductDetail.htm

Loaded pairs come with new brackets, the others don't.

LX-i's, 88-89, only had larger front brakes. If you want to upgrade your rear brakes, you will need to get rear disk brakes from an SE-i.

[codyJDM]

Loaded pairs come with new brackets, the others don't.

LX-i's, 88-89, only had larger front brakes. If you want to upgrade your rear brakes, you will need to get rear disk brakes from an SE-i.

Didn't notice he was talking about rears as well. Some people run the LX-i MC with rear discs and don't complain, but others swear by the SE-i MC and Proportioning valve. It is up to you and your preference on pedal stiffness.

[Demon1024]

hold on now!
i tried to put 88 calipers on my 86 and they wouldn't fit! how the hell are you guys doing this without changing the hub? like the hole from caliper to hub where an inch away when i tried it? and no telling me i didn't wiggle it right or whatever "would not fit".

[85Skyhawk]

hold on now!
i tried to put 88 calipers on my 86 and they wouldn't fit! how the hell are you guys doing this without changing the hub? like the hole from caliper to hub where an inch away when i tried it? and no telling me i didn't wiggle it right or whatever "would not fit".

You need to swap out the entire spindle from what I understand. When I went to the junkyard to grab a combo switch somebody already pulled them and had them laying in the back of the car. Since they were already pulled I just grabbed them thinking I might need the calipers. Found out that the 89 LXi had larger rotors and dual piston calipers by accident. I plan on installing them on my 86 LXi hatchback but I will need to go with larger wheels since I doubt the original 13-inch factory mags will handle the larger rotors.
The 89 LXi at the junkyard had 14-inch steel wheels but I didn't care for them. I'm thinking 16-inch aluminum mags are the way to go if they fit.

I also noticed that the 89 LXi had a different MC and rear wheel cylinders. These parts are cheap on the aftermarket so it probably wasn't worth pulling them. I am a little disappointed that I didn't pull the proportioning valve since it was right out in the open. At the time it was my thought they were all the same. In checking the Honda website it appears the PV on the 86 LXi, 89 LXi, and 89 SEI are all different.

I would like to find rear disc brakes one day but for now I'm sticking with the drums since that was original equipment for the 3dr LXi for 89. Does anybody know if SEI rear disc brakes will even fit on a 86 hatchback? The SEI model only came in a 4dr so I’m thinking the 3dr hatchback might be more of a challenge than it is worth. If anybody has some information about this modification please let me know before I waste a lot of time.

Thanks for filling me in on the MC. I’m going to order the larger one for the 89 LXi so I will have it when I swap the front calipers. The 86 LXi was a pretty fast car for it’s time but I have always had trouble stopping the vehicle especially at high speed. Probably why Honda eventually put better brakes on the vehicle.

[codyJDM]

You need to swap out the entire spindle from what I understand. When I went to the junkyard to grab a combo switch somebody already pulled them and had them laying in the back of the car. Since they were already pulled I just grabbed them thinking I might need the calipers. Found out that the 89 LXi had larger rotors and dual piston calipers by accident. I plan on installing them on my 86 LXi hatchback but I will need to go with larger wheels since I doubt the original 13-inch factory mags will handle the larger rotors.
The 89 LXi at the junkyard had 14-inch steel wheels but I didn't care for them. I'm thinking 16-inch aluminum mags are the way to go if they fit.

I also noticed that the 89 LXi had a different MC and rear wheel cylinders. These parts are cheap on the aftermarket so it probably wasn't worth pulling them. I am a little disappointed that I didn't pull the proportioning valve since it was right out in the open. At the time it was my thought they were all the same. In checking the Honda website it appears the PV on the 86 LXi, 89 LXi, and 89 SEI are all different.

I would like to find rear disc brakes one day but for now I'm sticking with the drums since that was original equipment for the 3dr LXi for 89. Does anybody know if SEI rear disc brakes will even fit on a 86 hatchback? The SEI model only came in a 4dr so I’m thinking the 3dr hatchback might be more of a challenge than it is worth. If anybody has some information about this modification please let me know before I waste a lot of time.

Thanks for filling me in on the MC. I’m going to order the larger one for the 89 LXi so I will have it when I swap the front calipers. The 86 LXi was a pretty fast car for it’s time but I have always had trouble stopping the vehicle especially at high speed. Probably why Honda eventually put better brakes on the vehicle.

The entire knuckle and hub assembly is different for the 88-89 LX-i in the front. You must swap the entire spindle to complete the upgrade, sorry I thought you already knew or I'd have mentioned it.

While the spindles are off, do what I did and get new wheel bearings and lower balljoints pressed in I promise it is worth it(handling and safety-wise)

[2drSE-i]

The SE-i prop valve is different because it has rear disk brakes. The 88-89 prop valve is not (noticably) different. The front spindles on the 88-89 are different from the 86-87 fronts.

[snoopyloopy]

You need to swap out the entire spindle from what I understand. When I went to the junkyard to grab a combo switch somebody already pulled them and had them laying in the back of the car. Since they were already pulled I just grabbed them thinking I might need the calipers. Found out that the 89 LXi had larger rotors and dual piston calipers by accident. I plan on installing them on my 86 LXi hatchback but I will need to go with larger wheels since I doubt the original 13-inch factory mags will handle the larger rotors.
The 89 LXi at the junkyard had 14-inch steel wheels but I didn't care for them. I'm thinking 16-inch aluminum mags are the way to go if they fit.

I also noticed that the 89 LXi had a different MC and rear wheel cylinders. These parts are cheap on the aftermarket so it probably wasn't worth pulling them. I am a little disappointed that I didn't pull the proportioning valve since it was right out in the open. At the time it was my thought they were all the same. In checking the Honda website it appears the PV on the 86 LXi, 89 LXi, and 89 SEI are all different.

I would like to find rear disc brakes one day but for now I'm sticking with the drums since that was original equipment for the 3dr LXi for 89. Does anybody know if SEI rear disc brakes will even fit on a 86 hatchback? The SEI model only came in a 4dr so I’m thinking the 3dr hatchback might be more of a challenge than it is worth. If anybody has some information about this modification please let me know before I waste a lot of time.

Thanks for filling me in on the MC. I’m going to order the larger one for the 89 LXi so I will have it when I swap the front calipers. The 86 LXi was a pretty fast car for it’s time but I have always had trouble stopping the vehicle especially at high speed. Probably why Honda eventually put better brakes on the vehicle.

about the calipers: if the ones you got are 88-89 stock, they are single piston. dual piston calipers were available, but they will only fit the 86-87 front knuckle assembly.

about the brakes: rear brake setup is the same on all accords, i've been under several to remove the disk break setup. just unbolt the spindle from the stabilizer bars, shock, and trailing arm and swap them. everything bolts up the same, only thing you'll need are the spindle w/ rotors and stuff, the brake line that runs to the rear caliper from the trailing arm, and the ebrake cables.

[85Skyhawk]

about the calipers: if the ones you got are 88-89 stock, they are single piston. dual piston calipers were available, but they will only fit the 86-87 front knuckle assembly.


You are right they are not dual calipers. I thought about that some more so I looked at them again and they are just larger single calipers. Since I had to put front pads on my wife's minivan a couple of weeks ago. I guess I got the two mixed up. It's something that these days a minivan has better brakes than a sporty car from the 80's. I guess the new Honda's have all the bells and whistles but I just don't care for their overall appearance.

Thanks for the advice on the rear brakes. Being the 3Dr is different than the 4Dr SEi I thought there might have been some problems putting rear disc brakes on it. Seems strange that Honda didn't put the rear disc brakes on the hatchback in 89 since they put the SEI front brakes on it. I guess they had some old drum parts laying around they needed to get rid of. Now all I need to do is find an SEI in a junk yard to pull the stuff off. In all my travels I have only seen one which I pulled the center console with the cup holder out of. Something else Honda should have put in all the Accords that year.

[2drSE-i]

lol, well the SE-i's were the only US models that came with rear disk brakes.

[russiankid]

Didn't notice he was talking about rears as well. Some people run the LX-i MC with rear discs and don't complain, but others swear by the SE-i MC and Proportioning valve. It is up to you and your preference on pedal stiffness.

LX-i and Se-i MC's are exactly the same. I ran the SE-i valve with an LX MC, I then went back to the LX prop valve because the SE-i started to leak and its not a big difference.