hehehe...sneeky mods..

[Tdurr]

SOoo i got a box in the main today after waiting like this :nervous: for weeks. Just wanted to show everyone wut i got.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c220/TheDarkDarkRacer/camstuff.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c220/TheDarkDarkRacer/cam2.jpg

272... the guys at delta are the shit. Gave me the shirt for free, and didnt even kno i was getting the calender or stickers.

it was 82 and some change for all of it. lol I love them now.

[turabaka]

Nice man. I'm thinking of getting one of those after my next paycheck. Tell us what kinda of power gains you get with it after the install.

[Tdurr]

Yea sure will. I was actually planning on getting it dyno'ed, but ran out of money for a before + after. Ill just have a after at some point.

[turabaka]

I wish we had a dyno here, but I think all we have are engine dynos which doesn't really help me if the engine is still in the damned car.

[Tdurr]

lol drive down to ga. we got a good bit around.

[turabaka]

lol. I just did a google search for "boise dyno" and found a shop that has a dyno less than a mile from my house. hehe. So I guess this spring I'll be going to get my numbers.

[Tdurr]

rolf nice.

[MessyHonda]

hope you have an adjustable cam gear also

[labeledsk8r]

looks good, was the shirt included if so :thumbup:

and if you need a adj gear let me know im willing to work a deal lol

[Rendon LX-i]

that reminds me that i have to put mine CG in. its getting so nice out. Oh man thats sweet. Delta is the shit man

[Tdurr]

shirt did come with it, scott(i think) threw it in fo free!!!

and no i dont have a CG. too broke lol. u got a pm sk8er..

[labeledsk8r]

free shirt FTW!

and something musta screwd up i didnt get your pm

**edit** nvm got it

[Demon1024]

$82? hell yeah! i know what i'm getting now! how long? a month?

[rjudgey]

Camshaft:
If you can get the A20A3/4 exhaust header or Pacesetter one with a 2-2.25" madrel bent system on it with either a hi flo cat or bypass pipe, and if you can get to the jets on the carb drill them out a little to increase the air to fuel ratio then you'll hit some decent numbers, if you can mod the carb with some countersunk screws in the butterflies if i remember correctly the honda carb has some god awefull round head screws that take up half the choke area!! If your allready running a weber then just jet it correctly and you'll see the best gains with a 38/38 especially at the top end!!

[snoopyloopy]

man, makes me want to get off my ass and do my tb and throw in my acg and camshaft. oh the laziness.

[Tdurr]

$82? hell yeah! i know what i'm getting now! how long? a month?


yea its 72.xx change and 11bucks to ship it to Ga. Hopefully this time next week the butt dyno will be able to tell you if its really good or not. Ill prob run my friends civic after i break it in lol....

and ^^do ur TB as in??

[lostforawhile]

make sure you coat the entire thing in engine assembly lube before you start it. try to find molly based stuff. wouldn't want a scratch on these nice lobes. is it made from a core? if it's from a different engine make sure you plastigage the bearings ,well the bearing caps,to make sure the oil clearance is right.

[cubert]

yea its 72.xx change and 11bucks to ship it to Ga. Hopefully this time next week the butt dyno will be able to tell you if its really good or not. Ill prob run my friends civic after i break it in lol....

and ^^do ur TB as in??


TB=Throttle Body

[mushroom_toy]

Camshaft:
If you can get the A20A3/4 exhaust header or Pacesetter one with a 2-2.25" madrel bent system on it with either a hi flo cat or bypass pipe, and if you can get to the jets on the carb drill them out a little to increase the air to fuel ratio then you'll hit some decent numbers, if you can mod the carb with some countersunk screws in the butterflies if i remember correctly the honda carb has some god awefull round head screws that take up half the choke area!! If your allready running a weber then just jet it correctly and you'll see the best gains with a 38/38 especially at the top end!!

He has an LXi.

[Tdurr]

make sure you coat the entire thing in engine assembly lube before you start it. try to find molly based stuff. wouldn't want a scratch on these nice lobes. is it made from a core? if it's from a different engine make sure you plastigage the bearings ,well the bearing caps,to make sure the oil clearance is right.

Honestly i dono if they are reground, or from another car, i called ordered, and gonna ship them the core once its swapped.
Didnt think to do all that extra stuff u said. Only was gonna cover the whole thing in lube lol. I went through my recepts and it looks like my motor is a honda rebuilt/reman that got rebuilt. lol so im guessing ill be fine. I have do look at the dates on stuff tho..

and yea i have a lxi btw. no carb for me.

[Rendon LX-i]

I just told em what i had. they asked me what mods i have done and the said a 272 stage 2 and the next day it was at my house.i didnt have to send in my core or all that. had no probs putting it in at all. like murshomtoy said i dont think they do all that other bs.

[Tdurr]

^^ they told me u get 20 bucks back if u send in ur core so 60 bucks for a solid 10 hp and some tq im down lol.

[mushroom_toy]

Actually you just spend $60 dollars on something for me. Im so happy Tim....you know you need to donate to the needy....:deal:

[lostforawhile]

Honestly i dono if they are reground, or from another car, i called ordered, and gonna ship them the core once its swapped.
Didnt think to do all that extra stuff u said. Only was gonna cover the whole thing in lube lol. I went through my recepts and it looks like my motor is a honda rebuilt/reman that got rebuilt. lol so im guessing ill be fine. I have do look at the dates on stuff tho..

and yea i have a lxi btw. no carb for me.never hurts to be careful,especially with engine stuff. ALWAYS check engine bearing clearances with something like that, people do make mistakes . not often but it happens. takes a few minutes to put the plastgage on, torque the caps,untorque and read it. it's cheap insurance, been machine stuff to clearances of a thousaneth of an inch for years, it can be off by just .0001 and destroy your cam,and the aluminum caps. if you know how to read a mike ,mike everything first before it goes in, and use the plastigage to check the oil clearance. also if you destroy the bearings caps, the head is junk. the caps are line bored while torqued to the head,you can't swap on others unless you are able to have them re linebored. can't mix them up eithier. how that works,is they rough machine each cap and the bearing bores, then all the caps are torqued, the head is installed in a jig,and a precision boring tool goes all the way through the caps from one end to another. this makes sure they are perfectly aligned to each other and to the centerline of the head. something to think about when you install a new cam, just take your time,check everything twice and you'll be fine. honda build these old engines to extremly high precision, almost like every one was a race engine. this is why they still run like new when an american engine of this vintage is on it's last legs.

[Tdurr]

never hurts to be careful,especially with engine stuff. ALWAYS check engine bearing clearances with something like that, people do make mistakes . not often but it happens. takes a few minutes to put the plastgage on, torque the caps,untorque and read it. it's cheap insurance, been machine stuff to clearances of a thousaneth of an inch for years, it can be off by just .0001 and destroy your cam,and the aluminum caps. if you know how to read a mike ,mike everything first before it goes in, and use the plastigage to check the oil clearance. also if you destroy the bearings caps, the head is junk. the caps are line bored while torqued to the head,you can't swap on others unless you are able to have them re linebored. can't mix them up eithier. how that works,is they rough machine each cap and the bearing bores, then all the caps are torqued, the head is installed in a jig,and a precision boring tool goes all the way through the caps from one end to another. this makes sure they are perfectly aligned to each other and to the centerline of the head. something to think about when you install a new cam, just take your time,check everything twice and you'll be fine. honda build these old engines to extremly high precision, almost like every one was a race engine. this is why they still run like new when an american engine of this vintage is on it's last legs.

What? :help:

[lostforawhile]

here's how to use it, you would put a strip of plastigauge across each bearing journal on the cam,then you torqe on the caps,remove them again and read the gauge on the scale. this will tell you the clearance between the bearing caps and the cam. you compare this to see if it's within honda's specs. on an overhead cam like this,it's just like checking rod and main bearing clearance on a pushrod type engine. this is cheap insurance before you start it up. this way you know for sure the oil clearance is right. once you are done, you just wipe off the plastigage with solvent from the cam and cap bearings. in the case of this engine,you just bolt on the entire rocker assembly,torque it to spec in the proper pattern,then take it back off. then you can read each bearing journal.
I would never install a cam or bearings in an engine unless i checked everything out first. http://www.plastigaugeusa.com/how.html

[Tdurr]

how much are they? and knowing my luck now that i know about this if i dont do it then something is gonna fuck up... great...

[lostforawhile]

how much are they? and knowing my luck now that i know about this if i dont do it then something is gonna fuck up... great...plasti gauge is cheap you can get some at any auto parts store

[Tdurr]

how cheap lol. I got 10bucks for gas...

[lostforawhile]

never mind. here's a link from northern by the way good info http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductId=1109

[rjudgey]

I would be more worried about him re using his old rockers!! You have to recondition/reprofile your old ones at the very least or buy new rockers all round or you'll just tear the surface of the cam apart and the rockers even more. You can reprofile/recondition the rockers by getting a 100% flat surface like a thick marble cutting board or sheet of thick perspex etc. then using course wet and dry gently rock the surface of the pad too and fro untill you got a nice uniform flat finish with no indentations, then you use the finer stuff to polish it off nicely then do that to the other 11 hard work i spent a whole evening doing this in front of telly but if your good with your hands, got plenty of energy and patience not very hard, but you need to get a good even finish and must not round it off on the sides.

[lostforawhile]

I would be more worried about him re using his old rockers!! You have to recondition/reprofile your old ones at the very least or buy new rockers all round or you'll just tear the surface of the cam apart and the rockers even more. You can reprofile/recondition the rockers by getting a 100% flat surface like a thick marble cutting board or sheet of thick perspex etc. then using course wet and dry gently rock the surface of the pad too and fro untill you got a nice uniform flat finish with no indentations, then you use the finer stuff to polish it off nicely then do that to the other 11 hard work i spent a whole evening doing this in front of telly but if your good with your hands, got plenty of energy and patience not very hard, but you need to get a good even finish and must not round it off on the sides.i just use the surface grinder at work lol just level the surface then take off .0001 at a time until it's perfectly flat. can't get any more flat then that.

[Tdurr]

I would be more worried about him re using his old rockers!! You have to recondition/reprofile your old ones at the very least or buy new rockers all round or you'll just tear the surface of the cam apart and the rockers even more. You can reprofile/recondition the rockers by getting a 100% flat surface like a thick marble cutting board or sheet of thick perspex etc. then using course wet and dry gently rock the surface of the pad too and fro untill you got a nice uniform flat finish with no indentations, then you use the finer stuff to polish it off nicely then do that to the other 11 hard work i spent a whole evening doing this in front of telly but if your good with your hands, got plenty of energy and patience not very hard, but you need to get a good even finish and must not round it off on the sides.

I asked the guys a day to two before i ordered about this and he said I should be fine unless there is excessive wearing on them, so im taking his word.
and ill have a bunch of ppl checking stuff as i do the work so ill prob wont put it in if i feel it wont work out right.

[lostforawhile]

I asked the guys a day to two before i ordered about this and he said I should be fine unless there is excessive wearing on them, so im taking his word.
and ill have a bunch of ppl checking stuff as i do the work so ill prob wont put it in if i feel it wont work out right.well the plastigauge is cheap insurance, i wouldn't build an engine without it, usually when you take shortcuts it will turn around and bite you in the ass later.

[rjudgey]

Hmm surface grinder is a bit extreme but more importantly i would have thought getting a even flat finish on that would be near enough impossible or very hard to do are the grinding stones guaranteed 100% flat when you buy them and how long before it goes out of spec, using Wet and dry on a 100% flat surface using 600 grade and then 1500 grade allways guarantees a really nice flat finish for the rockers done this like 6 times now on various builds and cams that i've tried.

Oh and as for wear on your rockers from my experience they get worn when they've done more than 30k miles and because the cam has more duration and lift the rockers will be contacting different areas of the pad which will more than likely end up running against worn areas which will scuff and scratch your ncie new lobes on the camshaft. I know this as i've tried it before when i was in a rush. As this is something you can do yourself if your hands are steady and you have a slightly artisitc aptitude it costs no more than a few sheets of wet and dry and a couple of evenings in front of telly with couple of beers (this is if your hands shake a bit!!)

[lostforawhile]

Hmm surface grinder is a bit extreme but more importantly i would have thought getting a even flat finish on that would be near enough impossible or very hard to do are the grinding stones guaranteed 100% flat when you buy them and how long before it goes out of spec, using Wet and dry on a 100% flat surface using 600 grade and then 1500 grade allways guarantees a really nice flat finish for the rockers done this like 6 times now on various builds and cams that i've tried.

Oh and as for wear on your rockers from my experience they get worn when they've done more than 30k miles and because the cam has more duration and lift the rockers will be contacting different areas of the pad which will more than likely end up running against worn areas which will scuff and scratch your ncie new lobes on the camshaft. I know this as i've tried it before when i was in a rush. As this is something you can do yourself if your hands are steady and you have a slightly artisitc aptitude it costs no more than a few sheets of wet and dry and a couple of evenings in front of telly with couple of beers (this is if your hands shake a bit!!)surface grinder is the most accurate flat surface you can get. if you do it by hand use some clover(valve lapping) compound

[Tdurr]

well i got a fully rebuilt/reman motor(shipped in) from a shop so im going to assume everything is in spec, I only have 7500ish miles on the whole engine. I checked the receipt book.

[lostforawhile]

well i got a fully rebuilt/reman motor(shipped in) from a shop so im going to assume everything is in spec, I only have 7500ish miles on the whole engine. I checked the receipt book.right,but your rockers are now worn in to the cam profile, this is part of the normal break in procedure for an engine. the engine may be in spec but you should still check the new cam while it's torqued in for proper oil clearance. anytime you install a new part into an engine that has oil clearance, you always need to double check.

[Tdurr]

i guess... ill see bout the plasti gauges then..

[Tdurr]

I got some red plasti gauge, that the correct size right? lol im a newb...

[lostforawhile]

i guess... ill see bout the plasti gauges then..
you'll feel better knowing it's right. you can never be too picky when it comes to internal engine parts, the more careful you are the better off you will be in the long run.

[lostforawhile]

I got some red plasti gauge, that the correct size right? lol im a newb...

what does it say as far as the size it measures?

[lostforawhile]

here's the link from northern again it shows exactly how to use it,you follow the instructions then compare that reading to the honda spec for the cam oil clearance. http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductId=1109

[Tdurr]

it says .002 to .006in. our spec is in between that right?

[Strugglebucket]

The spec for the outer and middle journals is .002"-.004"

The two in-between journals are .005"-.007"

[rjudgey]

Surface grinder as in what you use to skim heads and blocks?? How would you get the rounded finish of the rocker pad using a surface grinder?? Just out of curiousity might save me bit of time next time i have to do this again.

[Tdurr]

Well I got the cam in today, and plasti gauged it all perfect specs(see i told you lol) but didnt have enough time to get the valves adjusted so its sitting in the shop at school.

So tomorrow I'll be finishing it up, rechecking everything, adjusting the timing(and i have a question bout that, wut should i set it to?), and break the cam in then do a oil change and she should be good to go!

[lostforawhile]

Well I got the cam in today, and plasti gauged it all perfect specs(see i told you lol) but didnt have enough time to get the valves adjusted so its sitting in the shop at school.

So tomorrow I'll be finishing it up, rechecking everything, adjusting the timing(and i have a question bout that, wut should i set it to?), and break the cam in then do a oil change and she should be good to go!well now you know and you didn't start the engine up to a grinding scraping sound lol. never hurts to be patient and check everything out. are you going to put the moly engine break in lube on the cam? also if you have synthetic oil you might want to change it to non synthetic during the break in. stuff is so slippery the parts never wear in.

[Tdurr]

^^ good point on the oil...and yea i have dirty syn oil with some crappy additive(had a small leak needed to top the oil level off, but fixed now)

I was gonna put some on the cam but my friend didnt bring any from his house(i reminded him like5 times lol) sooo no cam lube, just dirty oil.

[cygnus x-1]

Surface grinder as in what you use to skim heads and blocks?? How would you get the rounded finish of the rocker pad using a surface grinder?? Just out of curiousity might save me bit of time next time i have to do this again.


I believe head/block skimming is done with some sort of fly cutter on a mill, and mostly you just need the surface to be flat (within 0.002" for the A20). Grinding would only be for creating a smoother surface finish than you would get from milling. On a cylinder head grinding would be way overkill since the gasket would conform to any surface texture.

The cam/rocker surfaces are another matter though. A smooth finish on these is critical. But I'm not sure how a surface grinder would create a rounded profile. I always understood surface grinders to be for flat surfaces only.

C|

[Tdurr]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?p=923515#post923515