Oil Leak & Smoke

[syclinsam]

I need some direction. I love 3geez, I haven't posted much but have brought my 86 hatchback back to life thanks to all of you. Spent a bunch of hours reading posts and a bunch of hours in the garage.

Now I gotta a problem recently I can't get to the bottom of, there is 252,xxx on the ticker. At highway speeds of 65 - 70 I get a pretty steady oil drip right onto the exhaust down tube that then smokes like crazy out the back. (not through the engine and out but from underneath) My normal weekly driving isn't enough to get it to smoking, even though I'm up to 55-60 everyday on the way to work. It doesn't leak onto the driveway, maaybe a drip now and again.

I've tried, new oil pan and gasket, oil filter base gasket (crazy 8 thing), PCV valve, cleaned that pcv seperator box, installed new pcv hoses & clamps including the one back into the oil pan. Its not helped the highway problem it is actually getting somewhat worse, it started out only smoking on longer hills, tonight she started smoking about 20 minutes at 65 on the flat. I noticed for the first time tonight (which got me extra worried) a fair amount of oil around the breather filter I have on the valve cover and oil sitting on top of the valve cover which I'm afraid to say, might have come out of the oil fill cap which is tightened down.

What should I do next? I feel like something is jacking my oil pressure way up. I'm not splitting open oil filters like I read in the one post on here its just pushing it out elsewhere.

Sorry for the length, thanks for reading and thanks for all your help. I'll be out of town for the weekend but I'll respond to any posts ASAP.

[Hauntd ca3]

do you have oil down the front or back of the engine?
a fairly common cause of this smoking prob is a stuffed cam cover gasket leaking oil on to the exhaust

[ecogabriel]

When I first got the car it was leaking oil badly. Oil pan, engine block sides, top of the transmission all covered with oil and the dirt/oil crap.

I took the car to the car wash (those that have a high-pressure hose). I washed the engine as thoroughly as I could (I had to do it more than once so dirty it was), then drove back home and look where the leaks were. Once I got one repaired (the first one was the oil filter base gasket), I took it back to the car wash and cleaned it up again to see what was next.

One word of caution: try to cover the electrical parts. Splashing would not affect electrical parts but a direct hit from the high-pressure hose may be a different story. At a minimum cover alternator, distributor/ignition coil, and fuel injectors. Also, you may gain additional access by removing the splash shield that is screwed to the lower end of the front bumper; I needed to get that out because my A/T cooling hoses were leaking ( both got replaced)

I read in another posting somewhere in here that someone added a dye to the oil and tracked an oil leak that way. I suppose you should have some kind of special light for the dye to be visible (ultraviolet maybe?). But I found my low-tech approach to work
My two cents. Good luck!

[evil88accordLX]

x2 on the valve cover gasket like Haunted suggested. depending where its leaking, it could be dripping onto something that spins (e.g. alternator) which is in turn flinging the oil back upwards onto the breather and cover. that which makes it all the way down the block is burning off on the downpipe like you suggested. is there oil on the underside of your hood?

[Dr_Snooz]

You probably got it when you cleaned out the breather separator box, but there is an oring between the box and the block that could be leaking. It sounds to me like you are building a lot of pressure inside the block and it's pushing out the filler cap and breather vent. That would suggest to me that your PCV system is plugged. Either that or you're getting a lot of blowby into your crankcase that's pushing oil out of places it shouldn't be. What kind of compression are you getting? I'd also inspect the most obvious: make sure your oil filter is tight.

[syclinsam]

thanks for the replys,

The oil is coming from the back of the engine. I don't have oil on my hood, both my alternator and water pump are new so they are clean and don't show any oil. Great advice on pressure washing the engine, I was nervous about damaging the electronics.

I don't know what my compression is, i'll do a search and check that out. If that's cool I'll do the valve cover gasket.

stupidly I did not replace the o-ring into the block from the breather box, I'll put that on the fix list.

If those don't do it, while its still fairly fresh, I'll re-do the oil pan gasket. I was so frustrated the last time I wouldn't be suprised if it wasn't quite right.

I almost hate to ask but when a main seal goes do they tend to leak on the exhaust??

Thanks again, I'll keep the thread updated as I get this leak figured out.

[syclinsam]

it looks like the oil is coming from the oil pan gasket. I hope. It is on the oil filter and all over the back of the engine because, as evil88, said its spinning off of the axle. I replaced the oil pan gasket already but I'm hoping I didn't do it right and just need to re-do it. I'm going to get a new one and do it this weekend along with the distrib. o-ring. (i have a nagging fear its the main seal which is beyond what I can do here)

[SharkyX]

where did you get the new pan and gasket?

[syclinsam]

the pan was new online the gasket is a felpro. like a dipshit I read the little lines about not using sealant with a felpro after i had it installed. I used a felpro and put some sealant at the corners. I hope this is the problem but I'm open to any an all other ideas.

I'm getting major leakage onto the axle thats spinning it all over the back of the engine. Leaking bad enough its on the cat.

Washing the engine shows it dripping down the right side of the oil pan (looking up at it with your legs sticking out the front of the car. At some point onto the axle then all over the engine. Ideas?

[Dr_Snooz]

Your pan gasket is probably fine if you used a torque wrench and the proper torque sequence. I don't think the sealant is going to hurt you at all. I used it on my Fel-Pro pan gasket and it doesn't leak the tiniest bit. I am assuming, of course, that the pan isn't deformed in some way.

I'm interested in how you cleaned the breather box. Did you remove it or just spray something into it? When you replaced the hoses, did you get the upper hose? I'm not sure why, but the way you are describing your PCV system is giving me the heebie jeebies. It's not an easy thing to get to if the engine is still in the car.

[syclinsam]

It was a pia. I have short intake so the box and all wasn't in the way. I took it all apart. The hose to the oil pan, mountings and braces. I replaced the hoses with radiator hose and decent clamps. The one holding the pcv was tedious but I found a shaped and tapered radiator hose that got pretty close to the orginal thingy I cut and modified it then hose clamped the valve in and reassembled.

[syclinsam]

I am procrastinating cause I'm about to go after the rear main seal. Being a masochist I decided hey why not do the clutch a while? I've got 254 on the ticker one owner before me and he doesn't think the clutch was ever replaced, but he had it for 20 years so it may have been. While I got the tranny out might as well do it. Sounds so easy.

[w261w261]

If you do the main seal, use a Honda part. My mechanic didn't, and was stupid enough to not use one the 2nd time. After I rejected the job again, he finally bought one from Honda which worked fine.

I would take off the splash shield, and scrupulously clean the whole motor with Gunk. Get in there with a toothbrush if you have to. Then drive it for just a couple of miles and take a look. No sense in going after something like the main seal unless that's really the problem.

[syclinsam]

i wiped everything down before I replaced the hosing to the pcv system and drove it. The problem is my leak gets on to the axle and spins all over right away. I feel pretty certain the main seal is the problem cause i've replaced everything else (i think) valve cover, filter base gasket, cleaned the filter base when it was out, distributor o-ring, oil pan & gasket, pcv hoses and valve. Didn't get that o ring on the box. Wedged into the engine pretty tight and I don't think this much oil would come out around it. I gots alot of oil coming out.

I've been chasing this leak around because of it spinning all over the back of the engine so quickly. I think I find it, fix it and its all over again. I expect some oil but it drips on to the exhaust and smokes like CRAZY.

[syclinsam]

I did get a honda seal.

Ok I got it all apart and have the original seal out. The inside of the housing that butts up against the block is all splattered with oil fresh and old. The flywheel has oil all around the teeth. I imagine the distributor could leak down in there but its splattered all over.

This is a hell of a job. I'm sure I'm savin some major bucks doing it myself (if it all works right) but its quite a task.

Glad I decided to pickup a new clutch, didn't realize at first I'd have to take the clutch all apart anyhow so putting a new one in won't be much extra work if any.

[syclinsam]

I'm stumped. I finished the crankshaftseal and clutch job. A new clutch feels soooo sweet! However I'm still getting oil. I even re placed the oil pan gasket while I had things apart.

Laying under the car the oil is coming from the right side of the oil pan toward the flywheel. Which is why I thought it was the main seal.

I've only driven it around the block a few times, I'm going out for a little longer drive see if it gets worse. Maybe it'll get better like magic or something.

Is it possible I have outragous oil pressure? What would cause that?

If anyone has another idea let me know. I've hit just about every seal.

I have tried additives in the past and I just finished reading that post about avoiding Lucas. Could it be possible I still have some of that in the system and need to run it out?? I'm clueless and frustrated.

[syclinsam]

Tried that longer drive

SMOKE just like it has been. WTF WTF WTF.:banghead::rant:

i spent the past month trying to find this leak and a shitload of hours changing gaskets and seals. ahhh

Maybe this is a stupid question, can a headgasket leak oil out the back of the engine? I searched through tech. but couldn't find a post that said as much.

Frustrating doesn't quite capture it, need a stronger word

:help:

[russiankid]

Oil filter housing base gasket. Located in the back of the engine.

Edit: If you still can't find the leak I don't mind helping you source it since you're an hour away.

[syclinsam]

I did it, pulled the filter base to clean where the filter screws to (no sludge ring), and checked the pressure spring. Seems to work smooth.

actually I did it first, still had a leak, pulled it again to make sure i hadn't pinched the new gasket it was all ok there

[syclinsam]

here's what i've done,

-valve cover gasket
-oil filter base gasket
-pcv hoses and valve (didn't change the o-ring from the box into the block, can that really push out lots of
oil???)
-o-ring on the dizzy
-oil pan gasket
-oil pan
-main seal (crankshaft)

[russiankid]

I wouldn't be surprised if the o-ring is leaking. How much oil are we talking here?

[syclinsam]

alot, at 60-65 it drips on to the exhaust to the point smokes rolls out heavy

steady heavy drip when hot and at speed

[syclinsam]

i didn't worry about it that much because it fit snug, and I thought that was just a breather/seperater for the pcv system.

the location of the oil is pretty on with it being that, cause it is all over the driveshaft then spins onto the rest of the engine, running off of the rubber dampener on the bottom of the trans too

i'll get a new ring for that box and give it a rip,

i wanted to run this by you too if I may, I'm pretty sure oil is somehow coming from the filler cap on top of the valve cover too, which would be alot of pressure...if it really is then it would probably push it out of all the other seals too, can the oil system be clogged somehow or what would cause that?

[Dr_Snooz]

-pcv hoses and valve (didn't change the o-ring from the box into the block, can that really push out lots of
oil???)


When I did my swap, I did change the oring and it leaked. If you left the oring off, I'd be surprised if you were able to keep any oil in the block. Sorry you went to all that extra work.

[russiankid]

If I were you double check your valve cover gasket on that side of the engine. I actually installed one and didn't check one corner. That corner got pinched and it was leaking oil out like you're describing just on the other side of the engine.

Take the oil fill cap off and see how much blow back you're getting. I know my motor there's slight amount of air coming out, which is normal.

[syclinsam]

no i left the original o-ring on, it fit tight. I will try a new one. Where did you get yours? Is that a dealership oem or can I get something elsewhere?

Was yours leaking onto the drive shaft?

[syclinsam]

i'll check the gasket and the blow back after work tomorrow

thanks alot for the ideas, if you guys come up with anything else I'll try it.

[syclinsam]

I pulled the filler cap off and i just get some puffs nothin too much. I have that little filter off of the valve cover because I have a short intake with a cone filter. i'll get that new o-ring on a breather box this weekend

[syclinsam]

new rings in the dist. and on the pcv breather box, still smoking.

[Keachman1]

Try replacing the three gaskets (O-rings) on the oil pump. There is one between the oil pump and block and two in the oil pump itself. I had one that was cracked inside the oil pump and it leaked oil like crazy. These have to come from a dealer and are about $15 for all three. The oil would leak out and follow the top of the oil pan around to the backside also. Let us know if this works. Also, replace the front crank seal and camshaft seal while you have the timing cover off. After these are replaced, you have replaced all the gaskets except the head gasket.

[Dr_Snooz]

The oil system draws oil from the pan, up to the pump. The pump pushes the oil through the filter and on into the crank bearings, etc. At the filter, the oil is about as pressurized as it gets. The filter assembly is just above your driveshaft and exhaust pipe, so it's the right place to look for your leak.

At highway speed, the pressure coming from the pump is highest of all and it's only the relief valve that keeps the pressure under control. If that valve malfunctions, you'll notice oil blowing out of a lot of strange places like the filler cap. The valve is a little spring-loaded metal plunger in an aluminum sleeve on the filter base. You have crazy huge miles on the car and it wouldn't surprise me if that is no longer working (although I've never heard of this part going bad on a 3g). I'd look real hard at that valve and the entire filter base assembly. The valve is under a hex nut on the side of the base. Pull it out and look for scoring, a broken spring or other signs of malfunction. If it's bad, I would replace the entire base. It's made of aluminum and will wear along with the valve. If you don't, you might replace the valve and find that the problem persists.

Another problem I'd look for is a filter that's not sealing properly or otherwise leaking. You aren't using some cheapo filter right?

Another thing just above your exhaust pipe is the PCV system. You replaced the oring on the breather box, so the only other thing I can think of is the neck going from the top of it. It's a cheap plastic tube that goes from the top of that box up to the PCV valve. When I pulled my breather box it snapped right off. On the '86s and '87s that neck was metal. In '88 Honda cheesed out and made it plastic. It's possible that the thing is leaking, but I wouldn't expect it to leak as much as you're describing.

How much oil are you losing in the course of a week?

[russiankid]

There was one instance of the valve being stuck and exploding the filters.

[syclinsam]

thanks guys. I picked up an oem oil pan gasket and I'll give that a try. I did clean the pressure release valve but I didn't remove it from the oil filter base. I'll try that, then on to the seals behind the timing cover.

thanks again.

[Dr_Snooz]

thanks guys. I picked up an oem oil pan gasket and I'll give that a try. I did clean the pressure release valve but I didn't remove it from the oil filter base. I'll try that, then on to the seals behind the timing cover.

thanks again.

Mmmm. Sounds like you're Easter egging (ie: if I just keep throwing parts at it, eventually it will start working). The timing seals aren't anywhere near your leak, the pan gasket is near, but highly unlikely to cause a leak like that, unless it's spraying out under pressure. If that's the case, the pan gasket is the least of your problems.

Easter egging is rarely effective. You need to get in there and really look for what's going wrong. As a last resort, take it to a shop to have it diagnosed. There's no shame in it, especially if you learn something from it.

[syclinsam]

i'm going to replace that pressure release valve. i gunked the engine and hosed it down in the back. After a drive I didn't notice oil running from one side to the other, with some oil coming out of the filler cap and more than normal coming from the breather filter off of the back of the valve cover.