The TRUTH about Tokico's (and more)...

[markmdz89hatch]

Ok ladies and gentlemen, here's the deal.

Lately I've been seeing A LOT of people out here not only claiming to have a perfect setup with Tokico's but also recommending them for use with damn near any brand of spring the aftermarket produces.

It seems that regardless of how many times the facts are shown that they are a bad idea, the claims of 'it feels great on my car, don't listen to the facts' are winning out. Why? Maybe because they're relatively inexpensive? Because they're blue? Because the name sounds cool? Who knows.

So let's just cut through all the bull and call a spade a spade.

I just got off the phone with a strut & shock engineer at Tokico USA, and after a lengthy conversation, and an initial response to my inquiry about compression/rebound specs being 'that's confidential and proprietary information of Tokico' I softened the guy up and got down to the cold hard facts. Yes we talked numbers.

FACT: Tokico HP's (aka. Blues) for the 86-89 Accord are valved to handle an absolute maximum rebound rating of 345 lb/in up front, and 195 lb/in in the rear. (That is straight from the mouth of the engineer at Tokico.) Now, an industry standard is to pair a spring to a strut/shock that is valved to handle 10-15% MORE rebound (lb/in) than the springs.

Prior to actually getting to the nitty-gritty with the tech about specs, and proving to him that I was at least a little knowledgeable about suspension dynamics, I got this whole schpeal about "It's not recommended to put a spring on a strut that is 'stronger' than the strut." Ya think?

Anyway, to anyone out there still adamant on pairing Toki's with ANY spring out there, with the exception of Neuspeed/H&R. Thanks to one of the (if not the most) knowledgeable suspension guy on this forum, Mike, AZMike, here's a link to his post on the stickie'd thread at the top of this sub-forum.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=570097&postcount=2

That link contains a very detailed spec of each spring available to the 3G, and breaks it down in plain numbers showing the exact spring rate of each.

If you want a set of shocks that are well paired, and will perform very well for your spring application, take the spring rate of your spring selection, and multiply it by 1.15, and you'll get a very good base to start from for your rebound valving. 1.1 if you don't plan on really pushing your car should be safe.

Example:
Sprint springs: 350 lb/in Front, 225 lb/in rear. 2.25" drop.
The 10-15% More calculation: (Front: [350x1.1=385 to 350x1.15=402.5], Rear: [225x1.1=247.5 to 225x1.15=258.75])
Recommended Damper Valving: 385-403 lb/in Front, 248-259 lb/in Rear.

For reference:
Tokico HP: 345 lb/in Front, 195 lb/in Rear
Koni Red's: Said to be 'good for springs up to 350 lb/in', from which you can assume they are valved around 385 lb/in Front, 385 lb/in Rear.
KYB GR-2: (15-20% stiffer than stock [as stated by KYB engineer a few weeks ago]), so one could assume: 243-253 lb/in Front, 135-140 lb/in Rear
Billstein HD: (said to be oem replacement only [without revalving])

[Rendon LX-i]

Interesting man. That explains alot of details

[2drSE-i]

Im VERY surprised to see that handle that much. My calculations show that 15% stiffer (which is what they claim in the ads) is only 242, which wouldn't support ANY aftermarket spring. Its really surprising to me that the Tokicos are that strong.

[markmdz89hatch]

Im VERY surprised to see that handle that much. My calculations show that 15% stiffer (which is what they claim in the ads) is only 242, which wouldn't support ANY aftermarket spring. Its really surprising to me that the Tokicos are that strong.

Honestly me too. The guy claimed that they were originally built to be paired with their Tokico springs, which is sort of where he started to base some of his performance specs.

...but if memory serves me, Jim tried out the Toki on Toki, and found that the HP's fell WAY short of handling the Toki springs. ...and also if memory serves, Jim even complained that a call to Tokico resulted in them responding that just because they're both Toki branded, doesn't necessarily mean they're made to work with one another.

I personally want to have a new set of them sent to a shop that can measure their compression/rebound specs and get back to us with the numbers.

[2drSE-i]

thats probably why he said that then. I doubt they have any specs at all for them. My Koni's barely handle my Tokico springs.

[markmdz89hatch]

thats probably why he said that then. I doubt they have any specs at all for them. My Koni's barely handle my Tokico springs.

:werd: Yeah, I think I spent my Koni's out back (maybe front too) thanks to my B&G's. But OH DAMN did they feel soooo nice when I first put them on. If I was fast enough on lateral movements, I could load each front wheel and actually get an extra 1/4-1/2" (or more) of squat out of front end. Loved it.

....dammit, all this susp. talk is making me want to resurrect my hatchie and get it on the road again. I've actually been back and forth with a racing shop over the past few days trying to see how feasible it is to make brackets to use an Afco or Penske setup instead of going the route of revalving the Koni's. Who knows how that'll turn out though.

[2drSE-i]

Do It

[cygnus x-1]

....dammit, all this susp. talk is making me want to resurrect my hatchie and get it on the road again. I've actually been back and forth with a racing shop over the past few days trying to see how feasible it is to make brackets to use an Afco or Penske setup instead of going the route of revalving the Koni's. Who knows how that'll turn out though.

What all would these brackets entail?

Interesting info on the Tokicos.

C|

[2ndGenGuy]

Do it!! Get your hatch going!!

[86AccordLxi]

I think his numbers are way off, but I'm no expert.

I think tokicos are like 15% stiffer than stock at most. Even with h&r's my 3g still had some bounce in the front.

Now, it could just be the valving (compression and rebound goofiness), but I wouldn't recommend them for anything but h&r's.

Thanks for posting this :D :D :D

[mushroom_toy]

Explains nothing to me. Im running 450 front 350 rear with no problems whatsoever. :)

[markmdz89hatch]

that's just it. i know it feels like it rides great. ...and you're half way to the full equation of a good setup, you just need to lose the Toki's. Thing is, the Sprints, or G/C's are pretty good springs or c/o's. Good and stiff, and if you lower the car like you did, you get very little travel out of the strut/shock because the spring is so hard it doesn't 'give' all that much. So, loading a corner in hard turning is not an issue, the issue is with the unloaded corner. Bump-steer is increased exponentially when a damper can't keep up with the spring. Braking is less effective too because you get a lurch from the ass end, which transfers weight to the front, putting more stress on the front brakes.

A challenge I usually pose to anyone in a situation like this is to have a buddy of yours follow you and take a vid of you just driving around, and you'll be very surprised to see how little control the dampers have over your springs. I would gladly send you a set of Koni's or revalved Bills to put on and try out to see if you notice a difference, but unfortunately I don't have any extras or I would.

[86AccordLxi]

Don't confuse him with the facts!

[codyJDM]

Mark:

The people that have making these claims of a perfect setup me apparently being one of them, aren't saying we have the best and the most efficient spring and strut setups out there. Me and the others making these statements are merely saying we're getting a damn good ride and a hell of a lot better handling than stock. A LOT better.

We understand your numbers. This information has been made very clear to all of us here on 3geez. Calling a company to tell us again isn't going to make us be able to find a set of Koni's like you were lucky enough to.

/end long rant

Like others with a similar setup than me, we're just making it be known that our feasible setups work pretty f'ing great for what they are.

:werd:

[markmdz89hatch]

Cody, the point I'm trying to make is that those Toki's are doing nothing when you pair them up with springs that over power them. You're better off not buying the Toki's at all, and just putting the springs or c/o's on your stock struts and use the money you saved by not buying the Toki's, and save up a bit more and order up the revalved Bill's when you have enough.

Trust me, my goal is not to make anyone out there (including yourself and anyone else that has been using and recommending them) look stupid, or tell them they're an idiot. Remember, we're all here on this board for the same reason: We love to work on our 3G, and are all interested in making it just that much better, and making it our own. The call to the company was to get to the bottom of these damn things and get some answers. Although what's written in the stickied threads says not to use them, there was never any real spec's published. I sought out to get those specs to either prove me wrong, or unfortunately confirm what's already been known to be truth.

I have a ton of respect for you, shroom, and anyone else on this board that has taken the time to do all that you have on your cars, and in helping tons of others on this board, etc.

But at the end of the day, the facts are facts, and I'm just trying to save members from wasting money on something that just won't benefit them in any way, and save them on any potential problems that could result in a mis-matched setup. Yes there are many other things that someone could do to their car, or not do, to make them much more unsafe than a mismatched strut/spring combo, but it's still unsafe none-the-less.

[markmdz89hatch]

...also....

I'm not out here trying to be Mr.Negativity at all. I understand that basically by calling bullshit on the Toki's I'm tearing the idea of a good setup right out of someone's reach. ...that said, I make at least a half-dozen phone calls or e-mails each and every month (and have been doing so for years now) to different manufacturers or shops to try and get them to actually make a quality product for us. The trouble is that I'm pissing in the wind with these requests because although we have a great number of people on this board wanting good setups, they're expensive, and our numbers don't amount to a fraction of the RX-7, RX-8, 240Z, Teg or Civic guys, etc. Needless to say though, I'll continue to bang my head against the wall until I either break my head or pop a hole in the wall, and get another option for us.

I think I'm close, but just not there yet. I'll be sure to let everyone know if something does materialize into something useful for us.

[codyJDM]

Cody, the point I'm trying to make is that those Toki's are doing nothing when you pair them up with springs that over power them. You're better off not buying the Toki's at all, and just putting the springs or c/o's on your stock struts and use the money you saved by not buying the Toki's, and save up a bit more and order up the revalved Bill's when you have enough.

Trust me, my goal is not to make anyone out there (including yourself and anyone else that has been using and recommending them) look stupid, or tell them they're an idiot. Remember, we're all here on this board for the same reason: We love to work on our 3G, and are all interested in making it just that much better, and making it our own.

I have a ton of respect for you, shroom, and anyone else on this board that has taken the time to do all that you have on your cars, and in helping tons of others on this board, etc.

But at the end of the day, the facts are facts, and I'm just trying to save members from wasting money on something that just won't benefit them in any way, and save them on any potential problems that could result in a mis-matched setup. Yes there are many other things that someone could do to their car, or not do, to make them much more unsafe than a mismatched strut/spring combo, but it's still unsafe none-the-less.

My only point is, my setup makes me car handle, feel, and look tons better than stock and any other setup I have had. My car has never been so stiff, responsive, and overall this great feeling since I have owned it. It doesn't lean, it doesn't bounce and float like soft springs do, and it doesn't kill me on the freeway.

My facts are also facts, supported by numbers or not the Tokicos are not horrible or unsafe. I have put this setup to the test in extremely harsh road course driving to daily driving in the city and on the freeway. I did not waste my money on this setup, and it benefited me greatly. Nor do I regret doing it.

Of course you know I greatly respect you, your car, and the info you provide to us here, but c'mon man. Tokicos aren't as terrible as you make them out to be. They are far from the best, but they can get the job done.

[mushroom_toy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rtXVIe5LE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZsVNM26uAI

For the most part you cant see too much of me in the first half of the video. Up until 8 mins or so im lead. In my opinion my setup which consist of free cheap nopi and aerospeed brand coilover sleeves. 450lb fron 350.b rear and tokicos with the tophat mod. Rear acura vigor sway bar and upper tiebar, is comparable to all of the other setups in the video. Im pretty sure ant is running gc/revalved konis (white ef), and at least two or threee of the other guys are running full skunk 2 coilovers, as well as some eibach/koni setups. Imho you cant beat it for the money.

[2drSE-i]

I have to disagree with ya a bit mark. I think sticking harder springs on stock struts is nuts, seeing as how most of our cars stock struts are FAR gone by now. While the aftermarket springs will wear them out, ,tokicos will handle the new springs better than the stockers. For a while anyway.

[markmdz89hatch]

Can you fix the links? I just want to see a 3G in action. With everything that you've done (sway bar, tie bar, insanely hard springs [that's my style right there], etc), that's all recipe for a rock hard, super tight setup, and a damn good one at that. The struts are only a part of it. I'm willing to put money on the fact that if you put the original struts that you took off, back on the car with all the other parts left the same, you would feel no difference at all.

Seriously my intention was not to offend any of you guys, or get anyone on the defensive, just to educate any of the guys looking to get a good setup when they're looking to drop, or just upgrade their car.

Shroom, PM me if you're interested in a custom setup I'm trying to put together with a local fabricator. Right now, you, me and only one other that I can think of off the top of my head have spring stiff enough to benefit from this uber custom setup, as I can only get struts valved with stupid high rates for this custom job. The ones I'm looking to use are not even available valved less than 400 lb/in for rebound. Best part: I might be able to get it for like only $100 (ish) more then your Toki's were.

[markmdz89hatch]

I have to disagree with ya a bit mark. I think sticking harder springs on stock struts is nuts, seeing as how most of our cars stock struts are FAR gone by now. While the aftermarket springs will wear them out, ,tokicos will handle the new springs better than the stockers. For a while anyway.

You're right Adam. I'll give you that. They are a bit better than blown stockers regardless of the spring they're paired with, but they'll quickly be just as bad as the blown stockers b/c of the overpowering springs.

[nswst8]

Hey mark, whats up.

I have some Tokico springs brand new still in the box who would I take these to, to get the rates measured?

[3gmodifier]

what is this top hot mod. i have seen this said many times in the past but when i search i cant really find anything.

[turabaka]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61806&highlight=tophat

this thread is the how-to for the top hat mod. It took me awhile to find it too due to the word size limit. "top hat mod" isn't a valid search graaaaaahhhh.

[snoopyloopy]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61806&highlight=tophat

this thread is the how-to for the top hat mod. It took me awhile to find it too due to the word size limit. "top hat mod" isn't a valid search graaaaaahhhh.
quick, someone type "top hat mod" in that thread and presto it is valid.

[turabaka]

quick, someone type "top hat mod" in that thread and presto it is valid.

lol. Expect that the words have to be longer than 3 letters for the search engine to work.

[codyJDM]

You don't even need two top hats to do it. That way is kinda overkill, still works well but too much involved.

I did mine like this:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/badubagabi/IMG00121.jpg

Only used one top hat, and reused the rubber spring seat that goes on the underside. Same principle, less material.

[mushroom_toy]

Links I posted are still alive....anyway you probably cant get the struts for $100 less than the tokis....because I only paid $15 for em. :) But I might be interested send me a pm Mark with the price if ya dont mind.

[mushroom_toy]

You don't even need two top hats to do it. That way is kinda overkill, still works well but too much involved.

I did mine like this:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/badubagabi/IMG00121.jpg

Only used one top hat, and reused the rubber spring seat that goes on the underside. Same principle, less material.

The only problem I see with it is that it lacks adjustability, also looks a little shorter than mine, but might just be the picture...heres mine.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/JubeiMunchCurry/More%20Car/DSC07788.jpg

[2oodoor]

Mark, thank you
I love these threads, "got on the phone with the company..." , you have a gift IMO>

Also Shroom (mushroom toy), has a gift... he is extremely resourcefull and has a nickeled up a very nice working set up. I may be looking you up Shroom, when I get to my suspension, and with Mark's knowledge base threads and some brand specific specifications I may can put together a set up from less $$$

[86ccord]

Mark, thank you
I love these threads, "got on the phone with the company..." , you have a gift IMO>

Also Shroom (mushroom toy), has a gift... he is extremely resourcefull and has a nickeled up a very nice working set up. I may be looking you up Shroom, when I get to my suspension, and with Mark's knowledge base threads and some brand specific specifications I may can put together a set up from less $$$

way ahead of you chief! lol i been talkin to mushroom.. :D

[markmdz89hatch]

Links I posted are still alive....anyway you probably cant get the struts for $100 less than the tokis....because I only paid $15 for em. :) But I might be interested send me a pm Mark with the price if ya dont mind.

No no, $100 more than the Toki's, but yeah, for $15 you can't beat that at all. And a whopping free99 for your c/o's, that's a deal that can't be passed up.

Let me try and work out some of the real details with the fabricator and see if this is actually a reality.

For this top-hat thing, Shroom (what the hell is your real name anyway) or Cody, can one of you try and wedge your hand up in the wheel well without jacking up the car, to measure the gap between the end of the upper control arm and the top of the wheel well?

[codyJDM]

No no, $100 more than the Toki's, but yeah, for $15 you can't beat that at all. And a whopping free99 for your c/o's, that's a deal that can't be passed up.

Let me try and work out some of the real details with the fabricator and see if this is actually a reality.

For this top-hat thing, Shroom (what the hell is your real name anyway) or Cody, can one of you try and wedge your hand up in the wheel well without jacking up the car, to measure the gap between the end of the upper control arm and the top of the wheel well?

I somehow fit my hand up in there haha, and there is sufficient room for movement without anything making contact. I made sure of that when I decided on my front ends ride height. My Ground Controls are extremely stiff and allow very minimal movement anyway.

And mushroom, I used 2" threaded couplers, I might eventually make them taller because I think I want to go lower.

[LX-incredible]

You don't even need two top hats to do it. That way is kinda overkill, still works well but too much involved.

I did mine like this:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/badubagabi/IMG00121.jpg

Only used one top hat, and reused the rubber spring seat that goes on the underside. Same principle, less material.

I would use the top hat underneath... Without that plate you're putting all of that stress on the strut tower directly at the bolt heads. I also doubt that the coupling nuts you used are even grade 5. If your struts are as stiff as you claim, I would worry about this setup.

[codyJDM]

I would use the top hat underneath... Without that plate you're putting all of that stress on the strut tower directly at the bolt heads. I also doubt that the coupling nuts you used are even grade 5. If your struts are as stiff as you claim, I would worry about this setup.

My struts are Tokicos, they are not that stiff. The setup has been reliable so far, no movement, bad noises, any of that. I am not worried about it. I used Grade 8 bolts.

[mushroom_toy]

^Yeah that is a stress on the sheetmetal. Use some big washers if youre gonna stay like that. Im using 3" carriage bolts. i think you can go as far as 4" or a little more without having any contact with the hood. And btw my name is Luke. :)

[snoopyloopy]

I somehow fit my hand up in there haha, and there is sufficient room for movement without anything making contact. I made sure of that when I decided on my front ends ride height. My Ground Controls are extremely stiff and allow very minimal movement anyway.

And mushroom, I used 2" threaded couplers, I might eventually make them taller because I think I want to go lower.

dude, how much lower you thinking?! you'll have to remove your mudflaps for sure lol.

[codyJDM]

dude, how much lower you thinking?! you'll have to remove your mudflaps for sure lol.

I feel like tucking my front tires. haha.

[Tdurr]

I feel like tucking my front tires. haha.

me too. but i got 17's so it gonna be harder for me to not rub in the fender well...

and i wanna find some stiff struts and get some stiffer springs... wuts ur springs # cody?

[codyJDM]

me too. but i got 17's so it gonna be harder for me to not rub in the fender well...

and i wanna find some stiff struts and get some stiffer springs... wuts ur springs # cody?

I'm on 15's, so me tucking means my car is reeeallly close to the ground.

I am not aware of my Gorund Controls spring rates, I checked their site and it didn't have the 86-89 accord rates listed(or at least I could not find them)

They are well over 350 though, the car hardly moves up and down lol.

[Oldblueaccord]

Since we are talking truth the stock Honda spring rates are Moog CC248 rates listed as 278 lbs/.in. The rear Moog CC221 is 170 lbs/.in. Those are the replacement variable rate springs.


http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1166925,parttype,7512,a,Search%20for%20B ISHKO




http://bbb-carb.com/moog_Coil_Springs.htm

heres the chart.


wp

[86AccordLxi]

Jim had found that stock springs were

Stock 0”
F: 1.0, 211 lb/in;
R: 1.0, 117 lb/in

[AZmike]

Hey mark, whats up.

I have some Tokico springs brand new still in the box who would I take these to, to get the rates measured?

If you take careful measurements of the spring's geometry you should have a very good idea of the spring's rate. In one of the spring sticky threads I listed the equation. The rate is most sensitive to wire diameter so don't bother unless you can use a caliper to get an accurate number.

[Oldblueaccord]

http://www.efunda.com/DesignStandards/springs/calc_comp_designer.cfm

is this ok to use Mike?

Nothing against Jim and is numbers but he never posted a reference to where they came from. Maybe we could just add footnote to his stats with an “updated” number. Also I have a set of struts/springs here I could disassemble and have a place in town check as well. The chart list the coils as .500” and I think .485" on the rear.



wp

[AZmike]

That website probably uses the same equation. I can check the result if you can give me all the inputs (number of active coils, wire diameter, outer diameter or inner diameter). The exact material properties aren't a big deal--all carbon steels have the same properties as far as spring rate is concerned. Young's modulus is the only important one: 30000 ksi.

The equation is here:
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48185

[markmdz89hatch]

one other point to bare in mind is the thickness of the coating used on the springs (ie. powder coating, paint, etc).

Thanks for jumping into this thread Mike.

[Oldblueaccord]

I think what I am saying is that Tokicos' 10%-15% above stock is about correct using my spring rate numbers.


wp

[86AccordLxi]

Since we are talking truth the stock Honda spring rates are Moog CC248 rates listed as 278 lbs/.in. The rear Moog CC221 is 170 lbs/.in. Those are the replacement variable rate springs.


http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1166925,parttype,7512,a,Search%20for%20B ISHKO




http://bbb-carb.com/moog_Coil_Springs.htm

heres the chart.

wp


Even so, I find it VERY VERY VERY hard to believe that stock accord spring rates are 278/178#.

[Tdurr]

I'm on 15's, so me tucking means my car is reeeallly close to the ground.

I am not aware of my Gorund Controls spring rates, I checked their site and it didn't have the 86-89 accord rates listed(or at least I could not find them)

They are well over 350 though, the car hardly moves up and down lol.

did u not look at the springs? They have the hight, rate, and with printed on each spring. Jack it up and let us kno wut it says...

[frantik]

yep i have koni fronts tokico rears on sport lines springs and the back end is too bouncy.. stupid tokico crap

[Ichiban]

Has anyone tried changing damping fluid viscosities, or modifying the porting of any of these dampers? I know it's fairly common practice on mountain bikes, and me being a machinist...

I guess I'm lucky I bought the Koni's for my 2g when I did.

[mykwikcoupe]

very common on motorcycles also. all it really does is allow more force or slower rebound and dampening I believe.

[markmdz89hatch]

bump for the new guys looking to lower their cars....

[mushroom_toy]

Mark you ever find out about those struts? Or any other setups. Ive got some money to blow on a new suspension setup now lol.

[markmdz89hatch]

Mark you ever find out about those struts? Or any other setups. Ive got some money to blow on a new suspension setup now lol.

Hey Luke, yeah I did look into it, and sorry for not upgrading this thread with the feedback from the fabricator, but we both came to the conclusion that it's not a very feasible solution for us. Can it be done? Yes, but after researching it further, I feared that it could start changing the geometry a little too much for a one-size-fits-all solution.

But, I do have another idea I'm working on. A number of months ago, I spoke with a very reputable suspension company, and got good feedback from them. I had to get them all of the specs on our oem setup with dimensions, weights, etc, which I admittedly dragged my feet on. However, just yesterday I called back and spoke with them again regarding this. ...and this morning I sent over the first half of my specs with pics and will provide them more detail later tonight (I forgot to take a few measurements). I'm really worried about our ultra short shock body up front and fear they may not have a shock body that'll work for us, but I'll never know until I ask right.

The price for those will be a bit more than the K's or D2's, but as soon as you hear the brand (which I'll obviously share as soon as I get a concrete answer of whether or not they can do this for us), I assure you you'll be willing to start saving a few more pennies to pay up for the much better brand.

Updates will be upon us soon...

[markmdz89hatch]

Mark you ever find out about those struts? Or any other setups. Ive got some money to blow on a new suspension setup now lol.

Hey Luke, yeah I did look into it, and sorry for not upgrading this thread with the feedback from the fabricator, but we both came to the conclusion that it's not a very feasible solution for us. Can it be done? Yes, but after researching it further, I feared that it could start changing the geometry a little too much for a one-size-fits-all solution.

But, I do have another idea I'm working on. A number of months ago, I spoke with a very reputable suspension company, and got good feedback from them. I had to get them all of the specs on our oem setup with dimensions, weights, etc, which I admittedly dragged my feet on. However, just yesterday I called back and spoke with them again regarding this. ...and this morning I sent over the first half of my specs with pics and will provide them more detail later tonight (I forgot to take a few measurements). I'm really worried about our ultra short shock body up front and fear they may not have a shock body that'll work for us, but I'll never know until I ask right.

The price for those will be a bit more than the K's or D2's, but as soon as you hear the brand (which I'll obviously share as soon as I get a concrete answer of whether or not they can do this for us), I assure you you'll be willing to start saving a few more pennies to pay up for the much better brand.

Updates will be upon us soon...

[2drSE-i]

In for brand name. I'm guessing its someone well known, and maybe someone you've dealt with before :)

[nswst8]

I just put the Tokico's shocks with Tokico springs on the latest coupe I bought in Dec 09. I'm content with the set up. I don't drive it like a crazed demon like most of the kids on this forum.

There is no bounce (over speed bumps) or hard braking, cornering seems good (I don't take corners at high rates of speed).

Now if you are a agressive driver, this set up would probably not work well for you.

Just my experience thus far with the set up. Well see how long it last.

Now the Bilstein HDs I put on the sedan is a stiff ride. I wouldn't recommend a drop with the HDs.

[markmdz89hatch]

it's well known no doubt. ...but, aside from past conversations re this same project, I haven't dealt with them directly before. And although they do not dyno each and every shock before they ship them, they do have much tighter standards by which they manufacture them, so the valving differences from one to the other 'should' be much better. However, I have confirmed they do have a shock dyno in-house, and even if I have to pay extra for it, I intend to request they dyno all 4 shocks before they ship them.

...that's making the huge (and maybe over-ambitious) assumption that they may be able to piece something together for us. Fingers crossed.

[import racer]

Does anyone know the spring rate on the Goldlines,I want to put them on the sei when i get her on the road.

[2drSE-i]

it's well known no doubt. ...but, aside from past conversations re this same project, I haven't dealt with them directly before. And although they do not dyno each and every shock before they ship them, they do have much tighter standards by which they manufacture them, so the valving differences from one to the other 'should' be much better. However, I have confirmed they do have a shock dyno in-house, and even if I have to pay extra for it, I intend to request they dyno all 4 shocks before they ship them.

...that's making the huge (and maybe over-ambitious) assumption that they may be able to piece something together for us. Fingers crossed.

If I'm correct in my assumption (And i'm pretty sure i am) D2/Ksport pieced us together a kit from Legend_master's legwork. Whatever company you are dealing with should be able to do the same.

[dacantu]

There have been other companys that did not want to seperate (piece together) sets for us. And yes guys I would for sure wait to get this brand over Ksports/D2. It would definitely be worth the wait and the difference in money for the brand and quality, but I think we will need to have some support from other members in order to convince these guys Mark. I will be one of the first to order these if it needs to be done. I will eventually need to raise my car again in order to pass emissions so I hope these come faster than I expect them to.

[mushroom_toy]

Eh Im really not willing to spend over $800. I may just keep the setup I have and buy a new camera with that $800....if Im not gonna get anything better I may just keep what I have. What ive been hearing is the ksports and d2s for us at least are pretty crappy so idk. I was gonna buy the Ksports....but dont wanna end up with something thats comparable to what I have. What I have is good and unless theres a huge jump in quality I mighy just keep what I have. :(

[dacantu]

From my understanding Ksport used to be crappy overall but they have really become a much better company and the quality of their products has become much better as well. But yeah if this comes through with Mark we will have some quality parts.

Thanks for doing this mark!

[Bones]

Has anyone looked into using the Koni strut cartridge with our strut housing?

http://www.classicgarage.com/86-2216.html

From the info I've seen online you cut the top off the original strut and pull out the guts, then jam in the Koni cartridge and put a nut on a bolt that sticks through the bottom of your original strut housing to hold it in.

[paul]

Has anyone looked into using the Koni strut cartridge with our strut housing?

http://www.classicgarage.com/86-2216.html

From the info I've seen online you cut the top off the original strut and pull out the guts, then jam in the Koni cartridge and put a nut on a bolt that sticks through the bottom of your original strut housing to hold it in.

Alot of subaru impreza guys use the koni cartridge/OEM body, never heard a complaint...

[Ichiban]

Yeah I've got these on my 82, they work great.

Here's how I did it: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68579

[2ndGenGuy]

And the cool part about doing it, you can pull out the cartridge and weld coilover sleeves onto the body and cut off your old spring perches. That's my plan anyways. Assuming I can find steel sleeves.

Those cartridges may or may not work in the 3g bodies. They are a slip fit, and you can't have them moving around inside the strut bodies. At least, it seems like a terrible idea. If the ID of your stock strut bodies are the same as the OD of those koni's though, you should be good to go, depending on length. I'm sure there are a variety of Koni cartridges out there, and I bet there is one that will fit.

[2drSE-i]

And the cool part about doing it, you can pull out the cartridge and weld coilover sleeves onto the body and cut off your old spring perches. That's my plan anyways. Assuming I can find steel sleeves.

Those cartridges may or may not work in the 3g bodies. They are a slip fit, and you can't have them moving around inside the strut bodies. At least, it seems like a terrible idea. If the ID of your stock strut bodies are the same as the OD of those koni's though, you should be good to go, depending on length. I'm sure there are a variety of Koni cartridges out there, and I bet there is one that will fit.

Seems like it would be a worthy investment for someone to find an OEM strut and chop it up. Length shouldn't be a huge issue i don't think.

[frantik]

someone make me some frankenstein koni rears dammit

[LX-incredible]

Seems like it would be a worthy investment for someone to find an OEM strut and chop it up. Length shouldn't be a huge issue i don't think.

I have 2 sets here and a grinder...

[2drSE-i]

I was looking at those inserts, seems like avg price is 150 each. OUCH.

[Tdurr]

From my understanding Ksport used to be crappy overall but they have really become a much better company and the quality of their products has become much better as well. But yeah if this comes through with Mark we will have some quality parts.

Thanks for doing this mark!

x214546565

the people who always bash either never used the brand of coilovers or had some of the older crappier ones.
I say get them if u dont wanna spend 800+.

[2ndGenGuy]

x214546565

the people who always bash either never used the brand of coilovers or had some of the older crappier ones.
I say get them if u dont wanna spend 800+.

Everybody says that. Nobody has any proof or reasoning to back up that they are any better than they used to be. It's like they one day decided "Hey let's quit making crap, even though lots of people are buying them and we're making tons of money already." I say get them if you wanna get something about as decent as eBay coilover sleeves on stock struts for $700. If they gave a shit about quality, they would have been quality from the beginning.

[LX-incredible]

What's with all the ksport hate man? I haven't had any issues with the quality and the ride is fine... Much better with 100 lbs of shit in the trunk though. I would seriously be looking for something else for my other car if I was displeased.

[Bones]

I was looking at those inserts, seems like avg price is 150 each. OUCH.

Seems pretty reasonable actually if we can get these adapted to our 3rd gens, considering the ones designed specifically for our cars are no longer avail, and when they are found used, they cost almost that much anyway.